This might be a naive comment..... but for all those complaining, including Wall Street.
Many years ago, everyone bragged how great Macs are... that they last longer than PCs. That sure it might cost more upfront, but you get a lot more, especially in the long run, because you don't need to replace as often. Yet here is everyone complaining that people are not buying... well maybe people don;t need to buy every year. Maybe people are happy with what they have... and realize they don't need to upgrade every year/every time, to surf the web, comment on FB or reply to an email. Maybe what they bought last year or the year before still completely satisfies their needs. And yes... this was a slower (down turn) quarter (or maybe even year). Does that add less value to your current Apple product? Does it do less, just because the quarterly results didn't meet some made up number, by people in a Wall Street office?
I buy Apple products, when there is a need for them... not on an annual basis. Even though I'm make a living using them. And maybe many other people think the same way.
If I owned a business and sold 51 million of anything in 3 months..... I would be a very happy person. Why can't others? How many of anything to the haters sell?
Cook clearly walking back the services narrative from last quarter. Guess he figured out Wall Street called BS on it. Very little discussion of product pipeline so I get the sense 2016 is going to be pretty boring.
iPhones seems to have reached it's peak and need to find another solid source of revenue. I don't see growth in iPhone/iPad/Mac for coming couple of years for sure. Smart phones have become as much smart as they can from HW point of view and now it's the SW that will make difference. You don't need to buy new Phone for that as latest HWs are more then capable for future iOS. That is the reason, people are going to hold onto their iPhones much longer. I may see future HW changes on Dual Camera/Usage of Smart Connector to add some new exciting accessories/OLED Screen/In Screen Touch Sensor/Bezel removal etc. This is not something that will make people replace their phone (Just like iPad)
This may fall until market accepts the fact that Apple is Value company and not growth company anymore. (Unlike Google/Amazon/Tesla)
Of course it pays in US$ otherwise why would Apple continue that business?
I don't understand your comment. If Apple has a bunch of Yuan in China banks, why not pay Foxconn with those instead of shipping USD from the States? They need all the cash they already have in the US to stay in the US, at least as much as possible, I would think, but I'm not an economist.
You always pay with what you own. If you made such a decision as to stock yuan in Chinese banks you may need to dump these before the yuan gets devaluated. That's another issue, these will reflect to your balance in US$, your balance is always hold in US$, as well as your contracts, unless you are the owner of that foreign company. I'm not an economist either. If your currency is strong you always gain. Foxconn makes you an offer, in USD, you accept or reject based on your profit analysis. Foxconn also wants to get its revenue in stronger currency, this is how international trade works. They want to make business with you because you are a wealthy man who has something valuable. If you don't pay them in USD they won't do any business with you.
Of course Apple could not match what they did last year. The iPhone 6 cycle was a once in a decade super cycle. People were holding off buying iPhones for YEARS waiting for a bigger phone.
You need to compare this years results with the iPhone 5s results in 2014.
In Q2 2014 Apple had $45 billion in revenue. In Q2 2016 Apple had $51 billion in revenue.
That is 13% revenue growth
Well, if you are comparing it to 5s era, then you better embrace yourself cause the stock price is going to follow too.
I would rather spent those Dividend and Buyback money on buying some high new target like Tesla/ Some good Cloud Company to compete on Enterprise space/ I am sure $163 billion would have achieved that target very easily. Those new growth area would have kept investors/analyst interested in company for sure.
Maybe if they updated the $1500 MBP once in a while they might generate some much needed revenue...
And what would that be? Would would you like updated?
Hard to do, if Intel isn't coming out with anything new. Besides that it would be small bumps..... but then that's the problem. I have a rMBP..... and I used it to make a living.... nothing wrong with it.
Mac is being canibalzied by iPad and iPhone. Come on dude. Mac is not the future of Apple. Everyone knows PC sales are going into the tank.
iPad is getting canibalized by bigger iPhones.
Just look at total revenue in Q2 2014 vs Q2 2016.
Don't compare Q2 2015. That was an anamoly year. The iPhone6 had THREE YEARS of pent up demand. Impossible for Apple to match that.
If you compare 2016 to 2014 Apple grew revenue 12%. That is not disappointing at all.
The stock is down more than 7% so far. People (and investors) are disappointed. I'm just covering the news, I don't have a dog in this fight, and I don't own any stock in Apple. Chalk it up to a grand conspiracy where the "media" is out to get Apple if you want, but sales fell for all three major product categories. That's a disappointment.
True but isn't this period traditionally slow for Apple anyway? It doesn't start to get good until the release of the new iPads and iPhones around October/November. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
1) Neglected mac product lines - very few updates and little innovation (except for macbook - which does need a second port!)
2) Over priced products: US dollar is killing overseas sales that have no reason being priced in dollars as they are made in China. On the US side - the competition is getting better for cheaper. A few years ago Apple was super competitive and cut the mac air price and got tons of sales. Now prices are stagnate and too high vs the competition. Apple needs to actively complete and make a compelling argument for people to spend their hard earned money.
3) Tech saturation in general: I know I used to buy a lot more Apple kit - now I get an iPad every 4-5 years and I have all 2008 Mac desktops except for a few laptops. I don't see me updating the desktops for another 5 years -why? they are overpriced and after I upgraded everything to SSDs the new ones are slower unless I pay through the nose for Apple's rebranded SSDs (and you can't even add one to an iMac without cracking it apart! - come on apple!)
4) iPhones: they are now getting "good enough" increasing upgrade cycles by at least a year and with the extinction of Apple's bread and butter contract plans ***this is a key point no one talks about*** - people are looking at the prices and waiting. The completion is cheaper and is not that much worse. Apple purchases need to justify significantly higher prices and in the phone arena it just isn't as compelling of an argument as before
Bottom line - Apple is wasting all their money on stock buybacks and who knows what. Start cranking up updates, upgradable products and making the consumer happy to buy something - not to feel dirty and ripped off. I have to admit, I am seriously thinking this will be my last Mac - there is nothing apple makes in the desktop arena that I want - and definitely not at the prices they have. I bought my last 8 core dual processor mac pro for $2689 that is infinitely upgradable. I priced a new 8 core mac pro with 1TB SDD (the minimum for a pro and since you can't swap out a faster (the OWC is slower) or add a drive!) - it's $6,299 !! Thats absolutely insane - and I can't upgrade it worth beans.
I have to agree with Sog's previous rants. Tim is doing a piss poor job and needs to go - and Apple is resting on it's laurels. In the tech world there is no yesterday - only today and tomorrow - Apple is not competing for today! I dumped my Apple at $110 a few weeks ago (and took a loss). I don't see it going anywhere but down - especially with the challenging economy clouds brewing...
It's tough to spin this. Things may even get a little worse before they get better. While the Watch is just great, it's not a needle-moving new product. The bottom line is that, there has been nothing massively significant since the iPad six years ago, and the story there is not great either (in part because most people can hang on to it for much longer than Apple perhaps thought they might, given its use case).
The bottom line is that Apple needs a new hit. I am not sure what that could be in the next year or two, until/if/when the iCar arrives. From a stockholder standpoint, there's not much else to do at this point except to hold.
The thrill may be slowly going, baby....
By that logic, Why Apple didn't see fall in sales last Quarter. Last quarter (2016 1Q)Apple has seen sales growth compared to 2015 1Q, where big screen phone was released first time. Why 2016 2Q compared to 2015 2Q any different then 2016 1Q compared to 2015 1Q. No matter how you twist this to make you happy, that is not happening here. For 2016 2Q sales was down 17% compared 2015 2Q, while 2016 1Q had sales little higher then 2015 1Q.
Yep, an asshole analyst on CNBC actually said, “Who uses iTunes anymore?” The he went to say Apple MUST buy Tesla. I cannot believe these people actually get paid for their bullshit.
He's right about iTunes though. I've been trying for two days with no luck to get it to recognize my iPad Pro as I want to add some videos to the device. Also I added some music to my iPhone two days ago and I still can't access it. It shows up on my phone but is greyed out. iTunes is a POS. It needs to die and be replaced with something much better.
I agree that iTunes -- without which the iPod would have been just another nice MP3 player -- has become a complete, time-wasting POS. I really can't believe that it has not kept pace with the amazing developments in Apple's hardware since its introduction 15 years ago.
I have to agree with Sog's previous rants. Tim is doing a piss poor job and needs to go - and Apple is resting on it's laurels. In the tech world there is no yesterday - only today and tomorrow - Apple is not competing for today! I dumped my Apple at $110 a few weeks ago (and took a loss). I don't see it going anywhere but down - especially with the challenging economy clouds brewing...
The stock could go down more. Who knows?
Think LONG TERM. I'm talking about 10 years or more. Personally I see the stock at $300 in 10 years.
Apple and Cook has made some mistakes the last few years. But they are fixable and quite easily. Customers are willing to pay a premium for Apple product.
IMO, Cook has to stop being so concerned about margins. Make a little less profit on Mac, iPhone, iPad, ect. But give more quality. You win in the long run. The two main goals of Apple should be:
1. Increase the install base (even if this means getting less profit/margin per device) 2. Sell more services and create new services to an ever growing install base
Isn't it 4 years already, where Apple stock was at around same price as it is today? Everyone knows here that you are short term emotional trader and only when it goes opposite of your thinking, you change your view to long term hold. (As in you have any choice left with loss, other then long term hold)
What will you say after 10 year, it is for your long term 20 year holding?
It's tough to spin this. Things may even get a little worse before they get better. While the Watch is just great, it's not a needle-moving new product. The bottom line is that, there has been nothing massively significant since the iPad six years ago, and the story there is not great either (in part because most people can hang on to it for much longer than Apple perhaps thought they might, given its use case).
The bottom line is that Apple needs a new hit. I am not sure what that could be in the next year or two, until/if/when the iCar arrives. From a stockholder standpoint, there's not much else to do at this point except to hold.
The thrill may be slowly going, baby....
I don't agree. Next year on the bigger upgrade cycle and with the addition of the SE (or whatever replaces it) unit increases will be very large yoy.
As for some new product I would suggest.
1) an Amazon alexa type product. 2) a proper TV
(1) What 'upgrade cycle'? What do you know that the market doesn't? (2) How big is the market for an Alexa-type product? How much is Amazon selling now? (3) I agree with you on this one, but Apple appears to have gone well past that opportunity.
4) iPhones: they are now getting "good enough" increasing upgrade cycles by at least a year and with the extinction of Apple's bread and butter contract plans ***this is a key point no one talks about*** - people are looking at the prices and waiting.
Actually Tim Cook said iPhone upgrades are faster with the 6s than the 5s. So you are wrong on that point.
Upgrades are faster on 6S compared to 5s because installed base is much bigger compared to 5S. There were close to 350-400million iPhones sold between 5S and 6S, what do you expect?
Cook clearly walking back the services narrative from last quarter. Guess he figured out Wall Street called BS on it. Very little discussion of product pipeline so I get the sense 2016 is going to be pretty boring.
Walked back? That was the HIGH LIGHT of the conference call. That and the growing INSTALL BASE. Just like I said.
And since when did Cook every discuss what is in the pipeline? LOL.
iPhone7 is going to be special. That's why their hasn't been any leaks of it yet.
Cook never discusses pipeline detail but he never uttered the word once today. And no there was no serious discussion on "services" unless you consider Luca's comments about Pay not being a meaningful driver of revenue/earnings a highlight.
Comments
Many years ago, everyone bragged how great Macs are... that they last longer than PCs. That sure it might cost more upfront, but you get a lot more, especially in the long run, because you don't need to replace as often. Yet here is everyone complaining that people are not buying... well maybe people don;t need to buy every year. Maybe people are happy with what they have... and realize they don't need to upgrade every year/every time, to surf the web, comment on FB or reply to an email. Maybe what they bought last year or the year before still completely satisfies their needs. And yes... this was a slower (down turn) quarter (or maybe even year). Does that add less value to your current Apple product? Does it do less, just because the quarterly results didn't meet some made up number, by people in a Wall Street office?
I buy Apple products, when there is a need for them... not on an annual basis. Even though I'm make a living using them. And maybe many other people think the same way.
If I owned a business and sold 51 million of anything in 3 months..... I would be a very happy person. Why can't others? How many of anything to the haters sell?
I don't see growth in iPhone/iPad/Mac for coming couple of years for sure.
Smart phones have become as much smart as they can from HW point of view and now it's the SW that will make difference.
You don't need to buy new Phone for that as latest HWs are more then capable for future iOS.
That is the reason, people are going to hold onto their iPhones much longer.
I may see future HW changes on Dual Camera/Usage of Smart Connector to add some new exciting accessories/OLED Screen/In Screen Touch Sensor/Bezel removal etc.
This is not something that will make people replace their phone (Just like iPad)
This may fall until market accepts the fact that Apple is Value company and not growth company anymore. (Unlike Google/Amazon/Tesla)
I am sure $163 billion would have achieved that target very easily.
Those new growth area would have kept investors/analyst interested in company for sure.
Hard to do, if Intel isn't coming out with anything new. Besides that it would be small bumps..... but then that's the problem. I have a rMBP..... and I used it to make a living.... nothing wrong with it.
And a price drop is not considered an update.
1) Neglected mac product lines - very few updates and little innovation (except for macbook - which does need a second port!)
2) Over priced products: US dollar is killing overseas sales that have no reason being priced in dollars as they are made in China. On the US side - the competition is getting better for cheaper. A few years ago Apple was super competitive and cut the mac air price and got tons of sales. Now prices are stagnate and too high vs the competition. Apple needs to actively complete and make a compelling argument for people to spend their hard earned money.
3) Tech saturation in general: I know I used to buy a lot more Apple kit - now I get an iPad every 4-5 years and I have all 2008 Mac desktops except for a few laptops. I don't see me updating the desktops for another 5 years -why? they are overpriced and after I upgraded everything to SSDs the new ones are slower unless I pay through the nose for Apple's rebranded SSDs (and you can't even add one to an iMac without cracking it apart! - come on apple!)
4) iPhones: they are now getting "good enough" increasing upgrade cycles by at least a year and with the extinction of Apple's bread and butter contract plans ***this is a key point no one talks about*** - people are looking at the prices and waiting. The completion is cheaper and is not that much worse. Apple purchases need to justify significantly higher prices and in the phone arena it just isn't as compelling of an argument as before
Bottom line - Apple is wasting all their money on stock buybacks and who knows what. Start cranking up updates, upgradable products and making the consumer happy to buy something - not to feel dirty and ripped off. I have to admit, I am seriously thinking this will be my last Mac - there is nothing apple makes in the desktop arena that I want - and definitely not at the prices they have. I bought my last 8 core dual processor mac pro for $2689 that is infinitely upgradable. I priced a new 8 core mac pro with 1TB SDD (the minimum for a pro and since you can't swap out a faster (the OWC is slower) or add a drive!) - it's $6,299 !! Thats absolutely insane - and I can't upgrade it worth beans.
I have to agree with Sog's previous rants. Tim is doing a piss poor job and needs to go - and Apple is resting on it's laurels. In the tech world there is no yesterday - only today and tomorrow - Apple is not competing for today! I dumped my Apple at $110 a few weeks ago (and took a loss). I don't see it going anywhere but down - especially with the challenging economy clouds brewing...
Last quarter (2016 1Q)Apple has seen sales growth compared to 2015 1Q, where big screen phone was released first time.
Why 2016 2Q compared to 2015 2Q any different then 2016 1Q compared to 2015 1Q.
No matter how you twist this to make you happy, that is not happening here.
For 2016 2Q sales was down 17% compared 2015 2Q, while 2016 1Q had sales little higher then 2015 1Q.
Everyone knows here that you are short term emotional trader and only when it goes opposite of your thinking, you change your view to long term hold. (As in you have any choice left with loss, other then long term hold)
What will you say after 10 year, it is for your long term 20 year holding?
There were close to 350-400million iPhones sold between 5S and 6S, what do you expect?