Intel pushes USB-C as headphone jack's successor

13»

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 57
    wozwozwozwoz Posts: 220member
    What a silly comment: "ageing headphone jack standard".  What is ageing about it? It's flawless and perfect. Oh wait -let's replace the 'ageing wheel' with um.... ? Let's replace "ageing wine" with meths!  Let's replace the ageing appleinsider with something original?

    Anyway - the real interesting thing about this article is that with 2 competing standards to recreate something that already works brilliantly well (the headphone jack) ... it seems pretty obvious that both digital contenders will phail miserably .. and the little old simple headphone jack .. so simple, so clean ... will reign supreme!
    baconstangcnocbuidasanman69
  • Reply 42 of 57
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,437member
    sandor said:
    wood1208 said:
    Just waiting for giants like Apple,Samsung to adopt. It's inevitable. Only, concern is one port used for multiple insertion per day by wired audio jack into the same port use for charging. Within few months of usage, phone will still be perfect but the port went bad. Solution is BT earbuds, wireless charging.
    i guess it all depends on the quality of the port.
    i plug a charger and accessories into my phone's lightening port dozens of times a day for a few years, and havent had any issue.
    Not my experience.   I've had that port fail on several phones.    

    But I've also had problems with earphone cables failing because they're not made well and they're just a few strands of copper for each channel.   Either Apple makes the jack slightly off-standard or Sennheiser makes their plugs slightly off-standard, but on several different iPhones, I've had problems with the plug maintaining proper contact with the jack on several different Sennheiser models.  When it's slightly off, you wind up with an out of phase signal and cancellation or a lower-level signal.   

    And I wouldn't be happy moving to BT audio.  It's really quite poor quality.   The problem with moving the D/A converter into the headphones is that it will substantially increase the cost of earphones and make all current earphones obsolete.   Bad deal all around.   Why do I think that this is Apple's way of getting people to buy Beats earphones (by making them the first to support whatever the new connection is going to be)?   
    baconstang
  • Reply 43 of 57
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,412member
    cropr said:
    jbdragon said:
    They made that MicroUSB standard a law, Now they're going to change it? The whole point it to keep people from throwing all these cables into the landfill. What happens if/when they change the law? The whole point is thrown out the window.
    Th  EU directive says that in 2017 all new smartphones should have one standardized charger (nothing more, nothing less).  It is up to equipment vendors to decide which standard.  As things are evolving right now it will be USB-C.  It remains to be seen if Apple would be allowed to circumvent the directive by offering a dongle, because the directive does not allow that 2 chargers are shipped. 
    Apple already gets around this rule in the EU with a Lightning to USB adapter. Why would this be any different?
  • Reply 44 of 57
    xixoxixo Posts: 421member
    but what about the warm, superior hiss of analog static, analogous to the warm superior sound of analog vinyl records?
  • Reply 45 of 57
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,510member
    Sound is analog. Making the transmission of the signal digital between the device and the speaker won't make it sound better. 
    mdriftmeyerbaconstangcnocbui
  • Reply 46 of 57
    plovellplovell Posts: 795member
    hodar: USB-C can still use analog for low-cost headphones. And digital for more expensive ones.

    This is akin to DVI which can support both digital and well as analog interfaces for older monitors. Not all systems include both but they can do so - it's part of the spec.
  • Reply 47 of 57
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,412member
    plovell said:
    hodar: USB-C can still use analog for low-cost headphones. And digital for more expensive ones.

    This is akin to DVI which can support both digital and well as analog interfaces for older monitors. Not all systems include both but they can do so - it's part of the spec.
    Lightning is also capable of dynamically routing an analogue signal output as well. It's unlikely Apple would ever allow that though, nor via USB-C. Part of this move allows Apple to get out of the DAC & amp business for external devices, and only supply what's necessary for its own internal audio needs, leaving the quality of the audio entirely up to the headphone makers and audio equipment manufacturers. It also encourages customers to buy a very cheap analogue adapter, to continue using their low-quality quality headphones, rather than considering an upgrade to higher quality wireless, or Lightning headphones. 
  • Reply 48 of 57
    Getting pretty weary of the ever changing connectors. I shudder to think how much money I've spent continually buying new cords/connectors/adapters/etc. The USB-C may be better for Intel, but is it really THAT much better for us users? And Apple, I'm not going to be jumping up and down in excitement if my new iPhone is 1mm thinner.
    baconstangcnocbui
  • Reply 49 of 57
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,561member
    plovell said:
    pmz: problem is that EU has mandated that all phones have a standardized power supply. It's either mini- or micro-USB (micro, I think, but I'm not sure). There's a push to switch the standard to USB-C.

    I guess that Apple could meet this requirement with a dongle but it might take the opportunity to add USB-C so that it could kill two birds with one stone:- EU compliance and digital headphones.

    Let's face it - if this move by Intel gets traction, there will be a lot more USB-C headphones than there ever will be with Lightning.
    There are lot more gadgets and cables with mini-USB connectors, but that hasn't caused Apple to replace Lightning with USB.  Apple will put USB-C on the other end of the cable. 
  • Reply 50 of 57
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,561member
    wozwoz said:
    What a silly comment: "ageing headphone jack standard".  What is ageing about it? It's flawless and perfect. Oh wait -let's replace the 'ageing wheel' with um.... ? Let's replace "ageing wine" with meths!  Let's replace the ageing appleinsider with something original?

    Yes, the 'wheel' analogy doesn't make any sense, so it's hardly surprising it keeps getting rolled out. The reason the wheel hadn't been replaced is because no one has come up with anything practical that is better. What you're actually saying is that if someone comes out with a better way of doing something then it shouldn't be pursued because change is inconvenient. 

    Imagine what mobile phones would be like today  if Steve Jobs had had that attitude. 
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 51 of 57
    mariomario Posts: 345member
    jkichline said:
    cnocbui said:
    Smoke and mirrors.  Moving the the D/A and amplification circuitry a couple centimeters physically will not lead to any sonic improvement or greater utility, it will just drive up costs for consumers and line Intel's pocket.  It's completely pointless from a consumers perspective.
    I disagree. It would do more than just move the DAC and headphone amp, it would allow for more advanced DAC for handling multi-point audio. For instance, you could have 7.1 streams. Headphone jack is limited to stereo with mono input. The headphone could also process spacial context and alter the decoding of audio to provide spacial awareness. All of this is currently impossible with a headphone jack.

    It would also let your headphone volume to be retained on the headphones instead of per device. I also think if combined with Bluetooth wireless capability, you could switch to different audio sources for your device if in range like handoff without plugging and replugging.

    as far as cost, the price of a simple stereo DAC and amp is a fraction of other components like drivers. I don't think price is going to be a big issue for basic needs.
    And it also means the headphones now need a power source, and that is going to be your phone (which you won't be able to charge while you listen to music). And do you think they will care about your battery life as much as Apple does?
    lorin schultz
  • Reply 52 of 57
    xixo said:
    but what about the warm, superior hiss of analog static, analogous to the warm superior sound of analog vinyl records?

    You're not really clear on how digital audio reproduction works, are you? That's okay, most people aren't. But then most people don't go around making misinformed comments about things they don't understand. Please explain how you plan to hear a digital signal without converting it to analog?
  • Reply 53 of 57
    Rayz2016 said:

    [...] The reason the wheel hadn't been replaced is because no one has come up with anything practical that is better.

    Right. Which is why wozwoz's comment about it DOES make sense. He doesn't (and I don't) see how removing the headphone jack leads to something that is "better." I'm prepared to be convinced -- maybe Apple has something up its sleeve that I haven't thought of -- but in the absence of something else having a clear advantage over an already-good system, it does strike me as being analogous to getting rid of wheels.


    Rayz2016 said:

    [...] What you're actually saying is that if someone comes out with a better way of doing something then it shouldn't be pursued because change is inconvenient.

    You're begging the question. Your assumptions about his (and my) position is based on the premise that removing the headphone jack will result in something BETTER. We don't yet know that it will, and so far haven't seen anything to indicate that users will benefit.

    At this point it appears that this particular change may not be a case of giving up compatibility in exchange for a longer-term advantage, like getting rid of parallel and serial ports in exchange for USB was. In that case the short-term inconvenience was clearly outweighed by the benefits of a smaller, more universal and versatile replacement. In the case of the headphone jack, no such alternative has been presented.
    cnocbui
  • Reply 54 of 57
    Does anyone else think the position of the Smart Connector is going to be a nightmare for case makers? How does one make a case that provides access to the contact points?
  • Reply 55 of 57
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,412member
    mario said:
    jkichline said:
    I disagree. It would do more than just move the DAC and headphone amp, it would allow for more advanced DAC for handling multi-point audio. For instance, you could have 7.1 streams. Headphone jack is limited to stereo with mono input. The headphone could also process spacial context and alter the decoding of audio to provide spacial awareness. All of this is currently impossible with a headphone jack.

    It would also let your headphone volume to be retained on the headphones instead of per device. I also think if combined with Bluetooth wireless capability, you could switch to different audio sources for your device if in range like handoff without plugging and replugging.

    as far as cost, the price of a simple stereo DAC and amp is a fraction of other components like drivers. I don't think price is going to be a big issue for basic needs.
    And it also means the headphones now need a power source, and that is going to be your phone (which you won't be able to charge while you listen to music). And do you think they will care about your battery life as much as Apple does?
    How do you figure? The only thing that absolutely ned power is the outboard DAC & Amp in the headphones, which the iPhone currently supplies power for it's own internal DAC & Amp. So at a minimum, that power is simply being fed to the outboard gear, rather than being used internally. So absolutely no additional power drain than it currently has. Who knows, as tech improves, the outboard DAC & amp might even use less power than Apple's own built-ins.

    Now moving the amp in particular into the headphones, means that the manufacturer may draw more power than the iPhone is currently supplying to its own amp, in order to drive larger headphones, and that's actually a good thing for audiophiles who may not get the most out of a higher end headphone now due to Apple's hardware limitations.

    And by the way, your cynicism is not lost on me. Any manufacturer who doesn't build a quality product is going to ultimately lose business. That's their incentive to care about your battery.
    edited April 2016
  • Reply 56 of 57
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Does anyone else think the position of the Smart Connector is going to be a nightmare for case makers? How does one make a case that provides access to the contact points?
    I think  the contacts might be for a a rear shell you clip on the back of an iPhone to provide inductive charging capability, with the antennae being in the shell.  My Nokia 720 has three contacts on the back in exactly the same position for that purpose.
  • Reply 57 of 57
    mac_128 said:

    Now moving the amp in particular into the headphones, means that the manufacturer may draw more power than the iPhone is currently supplying to its own amp, in order to drive larger headphones, and that's actually a good thing for audiophiles who may not get the most out of a higher end headphone now due to Apple's hardware limitations.

    If I may take that as the basis for a tangent: I wish Apple would provide a digital gain stage in the VIDEO playback system. The amplifier power is sufficient for (most) music, which hovers near full-scale all the time, but the average level of movies and TV shows is about 20 dB lower. That's about 1/4 the perceived loudness. Adding digital gain would make it louder without requiring a more powerful amp.

    Of course it will never happen, but it would be nice for those who know how to use it and are willing to accept that some peaks will clip.
Sign In or Register to comment.