Apple CEO Tim Cook calls doom and gloom 'huge overreaction,' turns sights to India

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  • Reply 41 of 77
    Rbfwcyek1Rbfwcyek1 Posts: 6member
    Go luck with the PC path.
    Mac users know the difference.  That is why Macs are gaining market shares as PCs decline.

    The future of computing lies in iPads, iPhones, iCloud, Apple Watches and the like, equipped with SIRI, Touch ID, VR cameras and advanced operating systems.
    I am a Mac user - as I said every device I own is Apple. But 90% of my time is spent on my dev machines. How long should I wait to be able to manage my numerous dev virtual machines on an iPad? Perhaps one day, but in the meantime I've got kids to feed. And don't you think it's ironic that every single thing you mentioned in your prediction of the future Apple has either been caught by competitors or overtaken (as was my point) - with the exception of Touch ID (in my opinion obviously). When I deploy cloud services I build for customers do you think I'm deploying to iCloud? - of course not. When people think of cutting edge VR does anyone think of Apple? They aren't even in the mix. So even in the future you envision Apple looks a bit like it could go either way. But neither do I care about some point in the distant future - my problem is NOW. Right now Apple are frustrating but they didn't get here overnight - there has been a progression over the past few years. So in my opinion if they continue on the same trajectory then whether the wonderful future you describe happens or not, Apple aren't going to be playing the role I would hope and want them to ... for my own sake.
    singularity6Sgoldfishewtheckmanpropod
  • Reply 42 of 77
    jonljonl Posts: 210member
    isammi said:
    Carl Icahn dumped all 46 mil of his shares of Apple stock in a down market. His reading of the tea leaves must see it getting nothing but worse.
    lol. Nice plagiarism!

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/3970370-apple-give-us-real-numbers

    "No wonder Carl Icahn dumped all 46 million of his shares of Apple stock in a down market. His reading of the tea leaves must see it getting nothing but worse."
    suddenly newtonpscooter63
  • Reply 43 of 77
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    The thing is, with the stock market, it's doom and gloom if you convince enough people to fulfill the prophecy. It's a load of crap.
  • Reply 44 of 77
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,526member
    Rbfwcyek1 said:
    Go luck with the PC path.
    Mac users know the difference.  That is why Macs are gaining market shares as PCs decline.

    The future of computing lies in iPads, iPhones, iCloud, Apple Watches and the like, equipped with SIRI, Touch ID, VR cameras and advanced operating systems.
    I am a Mac user - as I said every device I own is Apple. But 90% of my time is spent on my dev machines. How long should I wait to be able to manage my numerous dev virtual machines on an iPad? Perhaps one day, but in the meantime I've got kids to feed. And don't you think it's ironic that every single thing you mentioned in your prediction of the future Apple has either been caught by competitors or overtaken (as was my point) - with the exception of Touch ID (in my opinion obviously). When I deploy cloud services I build for customers do you think I'm deploying to iCloud? - of course not. When people think of cutting edge VR does anyone think of Apple? They aren't even in the mix. So even in the future you envision Apple looks a bit like it could go either way. But neither do I care about some point in the distant future - my problem is NOW. Right now Apple are frustrating but they didn't get here overnight - there has been a progression over the past few years. So in my opinion if they continue on the same trajectory then whether the wonderful future you describe happens or not, Apple aren't going to be playing the role I would hope and want them to ... for my own sake.
    Apple isn't doing virtual reality at this stage because right now and in the near forseeable, VR is a world of painful geekdom. Ive is not going to put a box on anybody's face, or hang a phone out over your nose. They are howling about this at Apple while they work on this crucial interface (!!!) problem. 

    Best to not forget the cardinal rule. They won't do a new product unless it delivers an experience no one else can. That often means waiting for technology to catch up to the vision, like the Toshiba drive that made the iPod possible, or the advance in LTPS screen production that made the iPhone 6/6+ possible. Same with the Thunderbolt display you are waiting for. Do you have any idea whether IGZO backplanes for large LCD screens are available in enough quantity from Sharp, or any other supplier for that matter? They are dribbling out in iMacs first, and Sharp has first dibs on the trickle of monitors they've been able to produce.

    For a dose of realism, I like to go to the phone store and marvel at the clumsiness in the design and execution of the Samsungs, etc. And check the garishness of the UI and the cartoon icons. The many annoyances of IOS pale in comparison.

     
    thepixeldocfastasleepsuddenly newtonpscooter63
  • Reply 45 of 77
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,293member
    Rbfwcyek1 said:
    ...
    So now instead of just hitting buy on the Apple website I've considered a Windows PC highly spec'd to be similar as the Mac Pro but frustratingly I just don't even want to head down that path. However I fear that if Apple keeps going down their current path at some point it's going to force my hand. 
    ...
    Go luck with the PC path.
    Mac users know the difference.  That is why Macs are gaining market shares as PCs decline.

    The future of computing lies in iPads, iPhones, iCloud, Apple Watches and the like, equipped with SIRI, Touch ID, VR cameras and advanced operating systems.
    You make it sound as of the Mac gained 20% or more market share. They gained ever so slightly and actually dropped in the United States. So don't go cheering just yet. 

    The Mac is a great device, I own the latest Pro version, but still have to have Windows boot camp on it so I can actually do graphics work. 

    Everything you listed is not the best all end all future. Not even close. 
    6Sgoldfish
  • Reply 46 of 77
    focherfocher Posts: 687member
    Go luck with the PC path.
    Mac users know the difference.  That is why Macs are gaining market shares as PCs decline.

    The future of computing lies in iPads, iPhones, iCloud, Apple Watches and the like, equipped with SIRI, Touch ID, VR cameras and advanced operating systems.
    You make it sound as of the Mac gained 20% or more market share. They gained ever so slightly and actually dropped in the United States. So don't go cheering just yet. 

    The Mac is a great device, I own the latest Pro version, but still have to have Windows boot camp on it so I can actually do graphics work. 

    Everything you listed is not the best all end all future. Not even close. 
    You don't get Apple at all. You want a truck, but Apple sells "cars" for the masses. iPads, iPhones, iMacs, MacBooks, MacBook Airs, etc.  They offer trucks, but that's not what they mostly offer. Just because they don't have some niche device that fulfills your specific wants doesn't show at all what you think it does. 
  • Reply 47 of 77
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    ac1234 said:

    How about a look at the 5 years that Cook has been CEO?  What is happening to Apple now that Cook has run out of Steve's ideas?  When he surrounds himself with dead weight execs like Eddy and Angela he will sink - and sinking he is.
    In the five year since Cook has been CEO, how as Apple done in the metric that really matters: profit. 

    Apple doesn't actually need the money generated from stock purchases, which is probably why they don't attach any real importance to these bolster chats. If the share sinks further then they'll just take more of the stock out of public hands. 

    And since you once described Angela as an 'Empty skirt waste of money'

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/2827699/#Comment_2827699

    I suspect your problem with her is that she's a woman who earns more money than you. 
    edited May 2016 fastasleep
  • Reply 48 of 77
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,693member
    Rayz2016 said:
    ac1234 said:

    How about a look at the 5 years that Cook has been CEO?  What is happening to Apple now that Cook has run out of Steve's ideas?  When he surrounds himself with dead weight execs like Eddy and Angela he will sink - and sinking he is.
    In the five year since Cook has been CEO, how as Apple done in the metric that really matters: profit. 

    Apple doesn't actually need the money generated from stock purchases, which is probably why they don't attach any real importance to these bolster chats. If the share sinks further then they'll just take more of the stock out of public hands. 

    And since you once described Angela as an 'Empty skirt waste of money' I suspect your problem with her is that she's a woman who earns more money than you. 
    Profit is one metric that matters. Customer satisfaction and brand loyalty are equally important. 
  • Reply 49 of 77
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Rayz2016 said:
    In the five year since Cook has been CEO, how as Apple done in the metric that really matters: profit. 

    Apple doesn't actually need the money generated from stock purchases, which is probably why they don't attach any real importance to these bolster chats. If the share sinks further then they'll just take more of the stock out of public hands. 

    And since you once described Angela as an 'Empty skirt waste of money' I suspect your problem with her is that she's a woman who earns more money than you. 
    Profit is one metric that matters. Customer satisfaction and brand loyalty are equally important. 

    Good point. And how is Apple doing in that department?

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/07/20/at-97-apple-watch-customer-satisfaction-outpaces-original-iphone-ipad---report
    http://www.macrumors.com/2015/05/29/apple-top-tech-support-consumer-reports-2015/

    Always subjective, but a quick Google search seems to indicate they're doing pretty well.

    edited May 2016
  • Reply 50 of 77
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    jonl said:
    isammi said:
    Carl Icahn dumped all 46 mil of his shares of Apple stock in a down market. His reading of the tea leaves must see it getting nothing but worse.
    lol. Nice plagiarism!

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/3970370-apple-give-us-real-numbers

    "No wonder Carl Icahn dumped all 46 million of his shares of Apple stock in a down market. His reading of the tea leaves must see it getting nothing but worse."

    Good catch that highlights one of the biggest problems of the internet today: lots of copy-pasted opinions with no critical thinking attached.

  • Reply 51 of 77
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,265member
    anome said:
    How many record quarters has Apple
    enjoyed under Cook?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_corporate_profits_and_losses

    So let's all RELAX, and look at things with a little more long-term perspective.
    But that's all in the past. What matters is what's happening RIGHT HERE AND NOW! Because nothing ever changes in the future.


    Two points:

    • Analysts have always been saying Apple is doomed - even in the past. So the point still stands - Apple has had phenomenal quarters under Cook.
    • The 6 was an exception. The demand for a larger screen phone from Apple is what spurted huge growth. Expecting that to happen every year/ quarter is not logical at all. The sales trajectory has come back to what it was pre-iPhone 6 and it will pick up again just fine.


    Apple's "shockingly bad" quarter was still their second largest quarter.


    fastasleeppscooter63
  • Reply 52 of 77
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Rayz2016 said:
    In the five year since Cook has been CEO, how as Apple done in the metric that really matters: profit. 

    Apple doesn't actually need the money generated from stock purchases, which is probably why they don't attach any real importance to these bolster chats. If the share sinks further then they'll just take more of the stock out of public hands. 

    And since you once described Angela as an 'Empty skirt waste of money' I suspect your problem with her is that she's a woman who earns more money than you. 
    Profit is one metric that matters. Customer satisfaction and brand loyalty are equally important. 
    They're related, that's how you make profits and get high margins otherwise: back to business school for you hey...
    edited May 2016 ewtheckman
  • Reply 53 of 77
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    jonl said:
    Cramer was also saying "Own it, don't trade it" back in 2012. That year, it went from like $380 to $640 to $520 to $705 before beginning its 9 month journey back to $380, and it took another 18 months or so to claw back to the 2012 high. Now it's sitting around $640 again and is poised to go lower.
    I think you are over-simplifying.  The stock is down, but the reality is that this situation has been priced in for years; why do you think their PE is so bad?!

    We are now in a period where it is obvious AAPL should not dominate your portfolio.  I would love for the buy backs to stop and to focus on a 5% dividend, so I can look at it like the income stock it is.

    The other thing to think about is what COMPANY is a better investment than Apple.  There are many stocks, but when the bubble bursts AMZN has a lot farther to fall.
    Right... The PE has been bad... Well, since forever for Apple, especially when compared to just about ANYONE!
    So, lame ass company producing laundry pet food probably has (and had) a better PE than Apple even 5 years ago...

    So that's kinda funny. I mean really funny. There's a lot of BS being peddle, especially retrospective one.

    No one really knows why Apple 's profits, especially ones coming from new areas (like the watch), is always disregarded.
    Does Apple need to do such financial engineering crap like Aphabet Soup (sic) to get proper pricing on its parts?


    palomine
  • Reply 54 of 77
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    anome said:
    How many record quarters has Apple
    enjoyed under Cook?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_corporate_profits_and_losses

    So let's all RELAX, and look at things with a little more long-term perspective.
    But that's all in the past. What matters is what's happening RIGHT HERE AND NOW! Because nothing ever changes in the future.
    Considering the PE has been bad forever, I don't buy that really. When the Iphone 6 upgrade quarters will be in the bank (after Q3 this year), we'll be comparing to a slightly more normal year and we'll see were Apple really stands.
  • Reply 55 of 77
    blitz2blitz2 Posts: 34member
    Rbfwcyek1 said:
    Long time reader, but never posted until now. Frankly, I don't care whether Apple made tens or hundreds of billions of profit. What I care about are the products that I need to use in my life each day. And I've had growing frustration for a while now that despite the "who cares how many" billions they are constantly raking in, they seem to be having competitors across the board catching up, and at times overtaking. I used to have absolute confidence that just buying the Apple version of whatever the product was gave me an acceptable balance of value and utility and it saved a lot of time because I didn't really need to worry about everything else on the market.

    I love that over previous years I could always rely on Apple and have a set level of confidence and expectation for any of their products I bought. But in recent years I've started questioning the value proposition which really annoys me that I have to do that. 

    For example, I am wanting to upgrade my work computer and have the budget for a Mac Pro but would even settle for an iMac with decent gpu performance but from what I've read the latest ones seem to be a bit underpowered still. But why would I spend the same amount of money I could buy a brand new small car with on tech that is years old now (i.e. Mac Pro). I considered upgrading my MacBook Pro instead and getting a new monitor because after having retina screens everywhere else the Thunderbolt display I've got looks pretty ordinary. Although I paid AUD$999 for it a number of years ago, the exact same display is the only option from Apple still (and considerably outdated) but is now $1599 here in Australia. But at least it has free shipping I suppose :/ You know what - if Apple want to keep selling old technology then at least reduce the price to compensate and retain some semblance of value.

    So now instead of just hitting buy on the Apple website I've considered a Windows PC highly spec'd to be similar as the Mac Pro but frustratingly I just don't even want to head down that path. However I fear that if Apple keeps going down their current path at some point it's going to force my hand. All my devices are Apple at this point and for my family members as well and anyone else I could convince in the past. If it comes to it then once I leave the eco-system I suspect it will be quick and thorough. Just don't want to get to that point though, and really hope Apple have something worth buying for my day job upgrade before our fin year ends June 30th. And I no longer recommend Apple anymore - I used to unhesitatingly. Now it's "look, I have chosen to use this, but I'm not suggesting anything - go do your own research because you are going to have to find what represents good value to you and for many Apple doesn't". Surely I'm not the only one in this boat. And surely that represents a long term problem for Apple. I've found the value of an Apple product is really evident when you own all the other Apple products and having them work as well as can be expected together. But just as the halo effect has grabbed new customers in the past, when it starts hitting in more numbers then the reverse is going to be true as well - people won't just leave one device - they will start questioning all of their devices and probably pretty quickly end up with few to no Apple devices at all. That to me would be more worrying if I was a shareholder than the quarterly fluctuations. 
    What you didn't mention and that becomes a real burden:
    - the bugginess of the products (OS X, iOS, ...)
    - the UI that becomes really complicated. It needs a complete overhaul, both in OS X and iOS
    6Sgoldfishewtheckman
  • Reply 56 of 77
    rezwitsrezwits Posts: 878member
    One, day the Watch will be just as big as the iPhone, TRUE. You will wonder how you got by without it, TRUE. People say Apple doesn't have the next big product, dude the Watch, secretly IS that product. If you just have one, and set things up properly, you use your iPhone 90% less, EASILY, I can't tell you how many nights I go to bed at 95%+ charge. This is especially true if you have your email accounts setup correctly, and have them cleaned out, so you message to message. To do list (Things), Siri, etc, it's really sneaky and good. I KNOW for fact, I can't live with out mine, or else durning the day I would be running to my iPhone, and fingerprinting, checking iMessage, checking the email, over and over, cause I stay current with my messages/email. It's pretty sick, I didn't even know they said Watch sold more than iPhone in the beginning... so I mean, maybe it my be less, but if I get an S2 at double speed with Siri a little faster, at $300-350, DONE again.
  • Reply 57 of 77
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    56 comments so far and not a single one about Mr. Cook's "turning his sights to India", which he's brought up a few times recently? Ok then, apparently no one is putting much stock in what Mr Cook has to say? 

    Earlier today Canalys released a report which does tend to validate what he's saying.


    "India’s smart phone market grew by 12% year on year, with 24.4 million units shipping in Q1 2016. The top five vendors stayed the same, with Samsung in the lead, followed by Micromax, Intex, Lenovo and Lava. Lenovo grew the most, thanks to its value-for-money handsets and offline channel strategy – its shipments were up 63% on Q1 2015. Established international brands Microsoft, BlackBerry, Sony and LG were the biggest losers as the market shifted toward low-cost and value-for-money handsets.

    ‘Over the past 18 months, India’s smart phone market has been rocked by dramatic changes. The rise of online channels, the arrival of new international vendors (particularly from China), the move to LTE and the desire for higher-quality devices have all had a big impact. Indian companies have struggled as incoming vendors have been quicker to address these trends,’ said Ishan Dutt, Research Analyst at Canalys. ‘Micromax, in particular, has been through tough times, with key executives leaving. Now the company is aiming to revamp its strategy to incorporate an ecosystem of services around payments and content.’ Micromax’s market share fell by a couple of percentage points to 16.7% in Q1 2016.

    india_smart_phones 003

    But other vendors are maneuvering to move up the market share rankings. Though in eighth place, Apple continued to climb in India, increasing shipments by 56% to make it the second fastest-growing vendor in the top 10. ‘Apple is outperforming the overall market in India, and still has great growth potential,’ said Canalys Mobility Analyst Wilmer Ang. It is seriously challenging Samsung’s dominance of the premium segment. For devices priced over US$300 (INR20,000), Samsung’s market share fell from 66% in Q1 2015 to 41% in Q1 2016, while Apple grew its market share from 11% to 29%. Successive price cuts to the iPhone 5s made it the most popular Apple device on the market, despite its smaller screen and outdated hardware. Ang added, ‘Apple’s growth run could be short-lived. The 5s’ success in India has more to do with affordability of a premium brand than a preference for smaller phones, and the move to the more expensive SE will discourage budget buyers. Also, the recent government regulation curbing discounts on smart phones sold by online platforms will affect demand.’

    Over the rest of the year, Canalys expects to see more vendors partnering with financing establishments, which will help boost overall affordability and ensure growth in a cost-conscious market."

    edited May 2016 focher
  • Reply 58 of 77
    portcityportcity Posts: 68member
    There is no way Cook is going to admit he has read the last page of Job's "How to keep Apple successful" manual. Innovation this past year is unfortunately lacking, and Apple has been stuck promoting things such as the mechanics of a keyboard, watch straps, and a stylus. Nobody cares about the mechanics of a keyboard lol. Hopefully things will change soon, if not Ive or Forstall may be the new CEO's. 
  • Reply 59 of 77
    chrisnhchrisnh Posts: 41member
    Naysayers and **cough** experts **cough** may pooh-pooh the idea of simply sitting outside a mall Apple Store and counting the number of Apple Watches going out the door and then extrapolating that. It's a 'homebrew' effort to be sure, but it does help define how 'successful' this product is. By Apple's standards, it's a mediocre success. But to any other company it would be a hit.
  • Reply 60 of 77
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    portcity said:
    There is no way Cook is going to admit he has read the last page of Job's "How to keep Apple successful" manual. Innovation this past year is unfortunately lacking, and Apple has been stuck promoting things such as the mechanics of a keyboard, watch straps, and a stylus. Nobody cares about the mechanics of a keyboard lol. Hopefully things will change soon, if not Ive or Forstall may be the new CEO's. 
    Newsflash Scott Forstall doesn't work for Apple. Nobody's bringing him back as CEO. And how does one define innovation anyway? Everyone seems to have a different definition of what is innovative and what's not.
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