My point ? Selling computers is what Apple does, and apparently they arent doing a good job of it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Selling computers is only a fraction of what Apple does.
Apple sells solutions, of which the computer is a component.
If you go buy a PC, then go buy an equivalent of iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, firewire, etc., how much does that PC actually end up costing now?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to buy a dual 3 Ghz Powermac for $1200. But the fact of the matter is, I get a lot of work done with the machines that are currently available.
All I'm saying is, if raw performance is what you're after, then by all means, the PC is currently the way to go.
We could argue this point forever, but the bottom line is, use what you feel comfortable with. life's too short to be miserable.
um... all those solutions are offered with their cheapest computer as well (with the exception of iDVD)... so how do you justify everything above that cheapest computer?
Cheap computers may offer programs that enable the same functionality, however they lack the refinment of Apple Apps in terms of interface and ease of use. A Kia and a BMW offer the same function (transportation), however the experience of driving a BMW is more pleasant than driving a Kia (apologies to those who drive a Kia )
'solutions'...thats what all computer companies are selling, not just Apple. lets look at 'solutions'....put this porsche notebook side-by-side with Apple's high end. now what 'function' do you see thats not present in the porsche ? exactly, their functionality is identical. now about 'refinements'....i really dont think the performance difference, and these 'refinements' you speak of justify the different in cost of these 2 laptops. keep in mind that this $2500 Porsche laptop is more powerpul than the high end powerbook(by a long shot), and costs as much as the low end powerbook. there cannot possibly be a justification for this kind of a difference in price.
um... all those solutions are offered with their cheapest computer as well (with the exception of iDVD)... so how do you justify everything above that cheapest computer?
your logic makes no sense</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, genius, the price is justified by the fact that the higher end machines have faster processors, more ram, better graphics cards, etc.
I'm talking about Apple's entire line, not just one specific machine. Where do you think the money comes from to pay all those people who develop software, or to pay for innovative r&d?
I'm also talking about the total user experience. This past Friday, I worked all day with no problems, while 2 of my colleagues, who choose to use PCs had to have theri machines rebuilt by our IT group, losing the better part of a day.
While I am not so naive as to beleive that this could never happen with a Mac, I know that it's not as common as it is with Windows based machines.
Like I said, if speed and price are your most important factors, then by all means, use a PC.
And just to get back on topic, my personal opinion is that the vpx laptop doesn't look as cool as a Titanium does.
[quote]Well, genius, the price is justified by the fact that the higher end machines have faster processors, more ram, better graphics cards, etc.<hr></blockquote>
price isn't JUSTIFIED at all... they may use those as reasons for higher prices but rarely does increase specs scale well with Apple's prices.
so you're saying the fact that 2 iMacs which have 15 inch LCDs on em for the price of one PowerMac makes sense? 2 processors in each case... 2 screens vs no screen, 2 drives vs 1 drive... 2 of everything vs the powermacs single... yet the PowerMac is double.
sorr but the better specs does not justify the price
the above is a poor example but you get the idea... some things just are ridiculous. and you're reasoning that the iApps are the reason for the stupid pricing is as stupid as the pricing itself
[quote]I'm talking about Apple's entire line, not just one specific machine. Where do you think the money comes from to pay all those people who develop software, or to pay for innovative r&d?<hr></blockquote>
maybe from 130 bucks for an OS upgrade?
99 bucks for .Mac?
the premium we pay on every mac from the cheapest to the most expensive
apple's pro products aren't uncompetitively priced because they need the R/D money... they are uncometitively priced because
1.) Apple can't compete technology wise
2.) Apple chooses to charge insane prices
[quote]While I am not so naive as to beleive that this could never happen with a Mac, I know that it's not as common as it is with Windows based machines.<hr></blockquote>
perhaps because there are more PCs than Macs?
Macs suffer just as many problems... just have a smaller amount to really notice.... macs may very well be easier to troubleshoot but they aren't problem free by any means..
I am NOT saying the iApps alone are worth the extra money. I merely used them as examples of the types of things that Apple does to make buying their hardware a better value.
Of course, what constitutes better value is totally subjective.
As far as your reasoning regarding more PCs equating to more crashes, I believe I stated that I am not so naive as to think that Macs are totally trouble free. What I can tell you is that I use both on a daily basis, and have had fewer problems with the Macs, by far. That's just my experience.
$129 for an OS upgrade? That's not much really. I doubt that they make a significant amount of cash from sales of that. Try looking at MS prices for XP upgrades. Now we're talking serious cash.
There will always be people who are disgruntled. That's why there are choices.
doesn't anyone remember the Powerbook 1400c? wasn't it also was designed by porsche? or atleast porsche had something to do with it. If you still have the CD that came with your powerbook 1400, pop it in and you'll see the porsche connection
Comments
<strong>
My point ? Selling computers is what Apple does, and apparently they arent doing a good job of it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Selling computers is only a fraction of what Apple does.
Apple sells solutions, of which the computer is a component.
If you go buy a PC, then go buy an equivalent of iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, firewire, etc., how much does that PC actually end up costing now?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to buy a dual 3 Ghz Powermac for $1200. But the fact of the matter is, I get a lot of work done with the machines that are currently available.
All I'm saying is, if raw performance is what you're after, then by all means, the PC is currently the way to go.
We could argue this point forever, but the bottom line is, use what you feel comfortable with. life's too short to be miserable.
[ 10-27-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]
[ 10-27-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]</p>
<strong>
Selling computers is only a fraction of what Apple does.
Apple sells solutions, of which the computer is a component.
If you go buy a PC, then go buy an equivalent of iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, firewire, etc., how much does that PC actually end up costing now?
[ 10-27-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
um... all those solutions are offered with their cheapest computer as well (with the exception of iDVD)... so how do you justify everything above that cheapest computer?
your logic makes no sense
<strong>
um... all those solutions are offered with their cheapest computer as well (with the exception of iDVD)... so how do you justify everything above that cheapest computer?
your logic makes no sense</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, genius, the price is justified by the fact that the higher end machines have faster processors, more ram, better graphics cards, etc.
I'm talking about Apple's entire line, not just one specific machine. Where do you think the money comes from to pay all those people who develop software, or to pay for innovative r&d?
I'm also talking about the total user experience. This past Friday, I worked all day with no problems, while 2 of my colleagues, who choose to use PCs had to have theri machines rebuilt by our IT group, losing the better part of a day.
While I am not so naive as to beleive that this could never happen with a Mac, I know that it's not as common as it is with Windows based machines.
Like I said, if speed and price are your most important factors, then by all means, use a PC.
And just to get back on topic, my personal opinion is that the vpx laptop doesn't look as cool as a Titanium does.
[ 10-27-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]
[ 10-27-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]</p>
price isn't JUSTIFIED at all... they may use those as reasons for higher prices but rarely does increase specs scale well with Apple's prices.
so you're saying the fact that 2 iMacs which have 15 inch LCDs on em for the price of one PowerMac makes sense? 2 processors in each case... 2 screens vs no screen, 2 drives vs 1 drive... 2 of everything vs the powermacs single... yet the PowerMac is double.
sorr but the better specs does not justify the price
the above is a poor example but you get the idea... some things just are ridiculous. and you're reasoning that the iApps are the reason for the stupid pricing is as stupid as the pricing itself
[quote]I'm talking about Apple's entire line, not just one specific machine. Where do you think the money comes from to pay all those people who develop software, or to pay for innovative r&d?<hr></blockquote>
maybe from 130 bucks for an OS upgrade?
99 bucks for .Mac?
the premium we pay on every mac from the cheapest to the most expensive
apple's pro products aren't uncompetitively priced because they need the R/D money... they are uncometitively priced because
1.) Apple can't compete technology wise
2.) Apple chooses to charge insane prices
[quote]While I am not so naive as to beleive that this could never happen with a Mac, I know that it's not as common as it is with Windows based machines.<hr></blockquote>
perhaps because there are more PCs than Macs?
Macs suffer just as many problems... just have a smaller amount to really notice.... macs may very well be easier to troubleshoot but they aren't problem free by any means..
1) Very close performance between similar products.
2)Competitive pricing between competing products.
Apple has neither, regardless of the product line.
I am NOT saying the iApps alone are worth the extra money. I merely used them as examples of the types of things that Apple does to make buying their hardware a better value.
Of course, what constitutes better value is totally subjective.
As far as your reasoning regarding more PCs equating to more crashes, I believe I stated that I am not so naive as to think that Macs are totally trouble free. What I can tell you is that I use both on a daily basis, and have had fewer problems with the Macs, by far. That's just my experience.
$129 for an OS upgrade? That's not much really. I doubt that they make a significant amount of cash from sales of that. Try looking at MS prices for XP upgrades. Now we're talking serious cash.
There will always be people who are disgruntled. That's why there are choices.
[ 10-28-2002: Message edited by: ryukyu ]</p>