Apple's obsession with thinness is getting ridiculous, if they were girls, they'd all be anorexic... ...and instead of top performance we get second or thirds tier components that fit into the cooling capacity of these overly thin devices, and we have systems that under heavy load randomly slow down because the CPU gets throttled because it otherwise would overheat. It is one thing to strive for thinning when laptops are the size of an NYC phone book, it's a different thing to try to make them thinner when they already cut uncomfortably into your hands if you carry them for a while, and they start to flex noticeably. Apple is on the same evolutionary dead end as peacocks with their ever longer and ever shinier feathers which may attract mates, but otherwise are simply a useless hindrance.
Going thinner and eliminating older seldom used technology saves weight which is very important in portable designs. It is a product of new technologies and also serves to drive technology forward. New MBPs won't be fanless or throttled as they are designed to be workhorses unlike the rMB. Apple is all about driving technology and design forward, and the rest of the industry will follow suit with their knock off designs.
Q4 is Christmas time right? To hell with that time frame!
Q4 for Apple is July-September. It would probably be announced soon if they want it in store for the school reentry.
If its not announced now then its pretty much too late for K-12 schools. K-12 schools plan their purchases in the May-Jun timeframe so they can purchase & deploy over the summer. For Higher Ed maybe, but if that rolls into September then its again, too late. They more than likely just want to get it out before the holiday buying season starts.
Apple's obsession with thinness is getting ridiculous, if they were girls, they'd all be anorexic... ...and instead of top performance we get second or thirds tier components that fit into the cooling capacity of these overly thin devices, and we have systems that under heavy load randomly slow down because the CPU gets throttled because it otherwise would overheat. It is one thing to strive for thinning when laptops are the size of an NYC phone book, it's a different thing to try to make them thinner when they already cut uncomfortably into your hands if you carry them for a while, and they start to flex noticeably. Apple is on the same evolutionary dead end as peacocks with their ever longer and ever shinier feathers which may attract mates, but otherwise are simply a useless hindrance.
Don't panic Apple won't put such stupid touch bars and alike instead of the function keys. We've seen such things on Windows notebooks, you know those fancy led icons showing the hard disk is rotating, the wi-fi is on or off, printer and so on...
I don't think they'd have such space constraints as to remove one row of physical keys. If they had to, they'd do it with the 12 inch Retina Macbook, which is the most space-constrained model in all...
"To help keep thickness at a minimum, Apple plans to employ low-rise butterfly mechanism switches and battery tech introduced with the 12-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display."
I own the Macbook 12" retina and several Macbook Pros and airs... I use the 12" exclusively for travel and the pros when at home working. I am a novelist and spend my entire day writing. If I had to use the low travel keyboard from the 12" all day long I would go insane. If Apple put that low travel keyboard into a pro then I would not buy it... period... That keyboard is a major compromise in ergonomics that is acceptable in a lightly used computer but not in something used day to day. I can type twice as fast on the wonderful keyboards found on my Macbook Pros than I can on that short travel keyboard on the 12"
I have to say I agree with the people who are skeptical about ever thinner MacBook Pros. When ever I see dongles and adaptors I think 'it's a failure'. The design it meant to follow function, not compromise function at the cost of utility. Shaving pro machines down does not, by itself, make them better. The touch bar sounds like a way of creating custom input keys on an app by app basis which sounds interesting. However, MacBook Pros once offered value for money and a decent upgrade path. If it's thinner it's going to be compromised in terms of ports and internal storage. Ram will be soldered in. Where is the design taking pro users into account? Why can't the MacBooks do the thin and light stuff and the Pro tier have the flexibility and value it once had?
I have to say I agree with the people who are skeptical about ever thinner MacBook Pros. When ever I see dongles and adaptors I think 'it's a failure'. The design it meant to follow function, not compromise function at the cost of utility. Shaving pro machines down does not, by itself, make them better. The touch bar sounds like a way of creating custom input keys on an app by app basis which sounds interesting. However, MacBook Pros once offered value for money and a decent upgrade path. If it's thinner it's going to be compromised in terms of ports and internal storage. Ram will be soldered in. Where is the design taking pro users into account? Why can't the MacBooks do the thin and light stuff and the Pro tier have the flexibility and value it once had?
RAM is directly related to thermal management. As such it is a serious issue that cannot be left to pro users.
Retina Macbook is thinner but it offers larger and faster SSD than 13" rMBP base model. Increase the number of ports or increase the internal storage? Of course you'd choose the internal storage like everyone and forget about ports....
That question is 99% of the reason I opened up this thread. I can't think of a non-gimmicky reason to have that feature. And since I know Apple doesn't do gimmicks, I'm intrigued. And flummoxed!
Hmm, maybe somehow part of a gesture-based interface?
Surely you have applications that use function keys but you don't use them due to lack of remembering what the hell each key represents; this would fix that, in theory anyway. Developers would still have to update their applications to take advantage of it. Numbers and Pages would be prime candidates to demonstrate the touch bar, should this feature actually show up.
Me, I never had much need for a Mac Book Pro, but TB 3 and a 14 nm process for the now late processor upgrade tells me that battery life will be maintained with a better than normal speed bump. I might consider purchase if Apple delivers a reasonably priced 4k/5k cinema display.
That's a great point. I consider myself very "normal" and non-techie in terms of how I use Apple products (although better informed then the average person, from reading forums like this), and I've probably used a function key twice in my life. It's really a completely dead row of keys to me, except for the Esc key. There could potentially be a lot of usefulness there.
That question is 99% of the reason I opened up this thread. I can't think of a non-gimmicky reason to have that feature. And since I know Apple doesn't do gimmicks, I'm intrigued. And flummoxed!
Hmm, maybe somehow part of a gesture-based interface?
Easy: it's thinner than keys. Since function keys aren't part of the touch typing routine, they can be made less tactile to save space; and by using an OLED display, as you press fn, alt, ctrl, shift the touch strip can show the actual function being performed. Further, things like volume and brightness can be implemented as virtual sliders instead of buttons for up and down. And lastly, marketing can announce it as a breakthrough novelty... The space gained by having one less row of physical keys means more space for electronics and batteries
Great thoughts, makes a lot of sense. And potentially a bigger trackpad.
I have to say I agree with the people who are skeptical about ever thinner MacBook Pros. When ever I see dongles and adaptors I think 'it's a failure'. The design it meant to follow function, not compromise function at the cost of utility. Shaving pro machines down does not, by itself, make them better. The touch bar sounds like a way of creating custom input keys on an app by app basis which sounds interesting. However, MacBook Pros once offered value for money and a decent upgrade path. If it's thinner it's going to be compromised in terms of ports and internal storage. Ram will be soldered in. Where is the design taking pro users into account? Why can't the MacBooks do the thin and light stuff and the Pro tier have the flexibility and value it once had?
I agree, I think while the MBPs will always strive to be thinner (like most tech out there), that's not their main priority so this OLED touch strip and the new keyboard don't make sense in this series. I think the analyst perhaps got the items correct, but then concluded they were going in the wrong machine.
Think I know what I'll be buying this coming Black Friday, a new, loaded, 13" MBP. Will keep my 2011 MB Air though. Worth much more (to me) than the few sheckles it would bring on eBay.
Apple's obsession with thinness is getting ridiculous.
So in other words, you want this:
Don't be an ass. How about this - I'd like the company that validated the GUI to produce machines that, I dunno, actually excel in graphics?!?
The state of GPU support in Macs today is utterly deplorable. We can't get a decent GPU in the normal mainstream desktops because they are made of laptop parts chasing this obsession with "thin". We can't get a decent GPU in "Pro" machines because slots are bad and anything that looks like another computer is obviously not innovative so time to come out with a design that can't be updated, then allow it to stagnate for three plus years. Ugh.
And in the currently shipping stable of laptops there are not even a handful of models where you can get a descrete GPU - and the ones they offer are mediocre, at best. Never in my wildest dreams did I envision ending up with such lackluster and mediocre hardware choices for the Mac platform.
Descrete graphics are valuable for far more than games, but what's wrong with also producing machines that can play games decently?!?
If Apple keeps on the "thin at all costs" path then this may be the thing that pushes me off the Mac after 30 years. It wouldn't be so bad if there were alternative hardware providers that could fill the gaps in what Apple deems as niches not worthy of catering to; but we are stuck with what Apple in their thin obsessed delusions are kicking out. Thank god Windows 10 is actually pretty decent. It's not Mac OS, but I'm getting tired of having to maintain two platforms to do what I want when Apple could easily cover these gaps if they wanted to do something as radical as provide a desktop that had some thickness to it.
I was hoping that the iOS App Store might wake them up to just how much gaming drives computing and maybe drive more, not less choices in GPUs.
I hope I'm wrong and they do kick out at least one truly "pro" model (laptop and desktop), but I don't have high hopes based on their last 5 years of really depreciating GPUs in Macs (and ironically really upping the ante for GPUs in iOS devices - aargh!)
My bet is that Apple is waiting for Polaris or Pascal. Probably Polaris. If they release a laptop before polaris all the PC laptops will have the advantage in hardware specs, while Apple would end up waiting another year to release something that could compete.
That question is 99% of the reason I opened up this thread. I can't think of a non-gimmicky reason to have that feature. And since I know Apple doesn't do gimmicks, I'm intrigued. And flummoxed!
Hmm, maybe somehow part of a gesture-based interface?
Every time you see OLED, close the news item, because it's full of crap. OLED's are rubbish technology for anything that isn't meant to be thrown away in a year. Everyone loves LCD's over CRT because of the increase of sharpness and LCD's weigh substantially less, so for that reason we can replace a TV.
But the push to replace LCD's with worse technology seems to be a profit-driven choice, without any concern for the e-waste. Apple is already bad enough with making things impossible to repair, so making laptop's have the lifespan of a cell phone isn't exactly a good direction for Apple to go.
Everything should last 7 years without needing to be repaired or replaced
That question is 99% of the reason I opened up this thread. I can't think of a non-gimmicky reason to have that feature. And since I know Apple doesn't do gimmicks, I'm intrigued. And flummoxed!
Hmm, maybe somehow part of a gesture-based interface?
Every time you see OLED, close the news item, because it's full of crap. OLED's are rubbish technology for anything that isn't meant to be thrown away in a year. Everyone loves LCD's over CRT because of the increase of sharpness and LCD's weigh substantially less, so for that reason we can replace a TV.
But the push to replace LCD's with worse technology seems to be a profit-driven choice, without any concern for the e-waste. Apple is already bad enough with making things impossible to repair, so making laptop's have the lifespan of a cell phone isn't exactly a good direction for Apple to go.
Everything should last 7 years without needing to be repaired or replaced
Have you seen an OLED display next to an LCD? It makes the LCD look like dog crap. OLED is the future. Pixel shifting will eliminate burnin and lifespan concerns and once the yield rates improve, their price will go down. Thinner, lighter, malleable. This tech was made for Apple.
Q4 is Christmas time right? To hell with that time frame!
Q4 for Apple is July-September. It would probably be announced soon if they want it in store for the school reentry.
Well thank goodness for that then. I've been forced to go back to my old Powerbook G4 after my MacBook Pro died on me. Funny how the Powerbook was of a better quality than the MacBook Pro that replaced it. Anyways I need a new MBP 15' ASAP.
Comments
If its not announced now then its pretty much too late for K-12 schools. K-12 schools plan their purchases in the May-Jun timeframe so they can purchase & deploy over the summer. For Higher Ed maybe, but if that rolls into September then its again, too late. They more than likely just want to get it out before the holiday buying season starts.
So in other words, you want this:
I don't think they'd have such space constraints as to remove one row of physical keys. If they had to, they'd do it with the 12 inch Retina Macbook, which is the most space-constrained model in all...
I own the Macbook 12" retina and several Macbook Pros and airs... I use the 12" exclusively for travel and the pros when at home working. I am a novelist and spend my entire day writing. If I had to use the low travel keyboard from the 12" all day long I would go insane. If Apple put that low travel keyboard into a pro then I would not buy it... period... That keyboard is a major compromise in ergonomics that is acceptable in a lightly used computer but not in something used day to day. I can type twice as fast on the wonderful keyboards found on my Macbook Pros than I can on that short travel keyboard on the 12"
Retina Macbook is thinner but it offers larger and faster SSD than 13" rMBP base model. Increase the number of ports or increase the internal storage? Of course you'd choose the internal storage like everyone and forget about ports....
The state of GPU support in Macs today is utterly deplorable. We can't get a decent GPU in the normal mainstream desktops because they are made of laptop parts chasing this obsession with "thin". We can't get a decent GPU in "Pro" machines because slots are bad and anything that looks like another computer is obviously not innovative so time to come out with a design that can't be updated, then allow it to stagnate for three plus years. Ugh.
And in the currently shipping stable of laptops there are not even a handful of models where you can get a descrete GPU - and the ones they offer are mediocre, at best. Never in my wildest dreams did I envision ending up with such lackluster and mediocre hardware choices for the Mac platform.
Descrete graphics are valuable for far more than games, but what's wrong with also producing machines that can play games decently?!?
If Apple keeps on the "thin at all costs" path then this may be the thing that pushes me off the Mac after 30 years. It wouldn't be so bad if there were alternative hardware providers that could fill the gaps in what Apple deems as niches not worthy of catering to; but we are stuck with what Apple in their thin obsessed delusions are kicking out. Thank god Windows 10 is actually pretty decent. It's not Mac OS, but I'm getting tired of having to maintain two platforms to do what I want when Apple could easily cover these gaps if they wanted to do something as radical as provide a desktop that had some thickness to it.
I was hoping that the iOS App Store might wake them up to just how much gaming drives computing and maybe drive more, not less choices in GPUs.
I hope I'm wrong and they do kick out at least one truly "pro" model (laptop and desktop), but I don't have high hopes based on their last 5 years of really depreciating GPUs in Macs (and ironically really upping the ante for GPUs in iOS devices - aargh!)
I really don't want Apple to add OLED anything based on this:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/05/samsung-galaxy-tabpro-s-review-a-taste-of-a-future-im-not-ready-for/
-- I don't want a display with a lifetime count down clock
Just hoping for Skylake, Polaris, and a couple thunderbolt 3 ports to connect a giant display.
But the push to replace LCD's with worse technology seems to be a profit-driven choice, without any concern for the e-waste. Apple is already bad enough with making things impossible to repair, so making laptop's have the lifespan of a cell phone isn't exactly a good direction for Apple to go.
Everything should last 7 years without needing to be repaired or replaced