How do we know it will be different standards? Apple Pay doesn't use propriety standards.
I hope that Apple will be as successful with innovating and partnering in electric car charging infrastructure as they have been with Apple Pay. Maybe they'll figure out a way to charge their electric car without leaving the driver's seat.
Tesla has designed a hands-free snake-like charger that finds its way into the charging port but I'm guessing wireless charging will be the future. There are already concepts of wireless built into lanes working while you drive over them and i'm fairly sure an electric bus in South Korea uses it
I think we need to standardize around Tesla's design since it's already out there. I guess different gas stations could have different connectors, but that is just going to increase the cost and uncertainty of adoption.
You don't seem very familiar with Apple's modus operandi. When they introduce an electric vehicle, it will have a non-standard charging port they own the patents for. You will be obliged to fill it up at Apple charging stations where you will be charged extra to do so because of the significantly higher quality of the electricity provided.
Should you wish to charge your Apple car from other sources, you will have to buy dongles at $2890 each. You would probably need at least 2; one for domestic charging and the other to use 'rival' rapid charging stations.
As long as we are still talking about *charging*, I think we are missing the point entirely. What is the main problem of electric mobility? It is range. How can that be solved? Larger batteries? Maybe. Faster charging? Probably. But wait. Is the problem really RANGE? Or is it the time it takes to CHARGE a battery? Well, the former is a result of the latter. So, why bother trying to solve the (re)charging problem? Why put up with the time it takes to complete this process? Why not just swap out the battery? Think about it. Changing a battery could be a matter of seconds if perfected. Who would care about range if all you needed to do was to drive through some battery-swapping point, pay with your Apple-ID and off you went. Apple has the resources to implement swapping (not charging) stations and to perfect the process. It is all about standards. If Apple sets the standard for swappable battery packs then other car manufacturers could participate by supporting the same system. If Apple lets them. Which they probably would have to. No point any other way, really.
First of all, let me disclose that I currently have an electric car, Chevrolet Spark EV and I can tell you that for me, range and recharge time are not issues at all.
My car has a17 kWh battery, and it goes roughly 80 miles on a full charge. To fully recharge an empty battery, it takes 20 hours on a Level 1 charger, 4 hours on a Level 2 charger (which I have at home), and 20 minutes on a Level 3 DC fast charger (available all over California).
With that in mind consider typical usage. When I leave in the morning my battery is fully charged. I go to work, I do some shopping, etc, which takes me no more than 20 miles, so when I get home, I plug into a level 2 charger and my battery is full again in less than 1.5 hours. If I go to a place that offers free public charging (there are plenty of those) then I don't even have to plug in at home.
Long stiry short, for local commuting, the current EVs with current charging technology are more than sufficient to meet our needs. We just need to get out of the gasoline car mentality of driving it until we are nearly out of fuel and refilling. If you do that with an EV, you will have a problem. Luckily that's not how we use EVs. We immediately refill the little capacity we used in the day so we actually never worry about refilling. It is a huge convenience compared to going to the gas station every week. I'm not even talking about the cost savings associated with EVs.
The only thing left is long distance travel. Tesla offers access to their supercharger network and for non-Tesla EVs there are stations from NRG EVgo, and a few other companies. When I go to San Francisco Airport, which is 130 miles from my house, I leave with a full battery, I stop at an EVGo station about halfway, I spend 20 minutes recharging and I am on my way. With a Tesla or Chevy Bolt I wouldn't even need to stop. My point is, stopping for 20-30 minutes to recharge isn't such s big deal. And that's with current technology. ChaDeMo and CCS plugs pump current at 50 kW, while Tesla superchargers run at 120 kW. In future, CCS will run at 350 kW, meaning that it will recharge a car capable of traveling 300 miles, in less than 1 hour.
Looking a little further into the future, we could have highways that inductively charge EVs. There is a lot of research in that area, with the BMW i8 already capable of inductive charging.
Finally, Tesla already offered battery swapping for Model S, but after a trial run they discontinued the practice. They found that almost no customer was willing to pay $60 for a battery swap, when they could recharge their own battery in 30 minutes for free. It makes perfect sense, you've been driving 200 miles, stopping for 30 minutes to stretch your legs and grab a bite to eat is perfectly plausible, after all, charging stations are located near restaurants and other retail spaces, so it's very convenient to do that.
Isn't Elon keen on other companies making the move to electric power? If so perhaps he'll share charging stations with Apple?
He has already offered for any car company to use the Tesla superchargers, as long as they financially contribute to the maintenance and expansion of the charging network. So far, nobody has taken him up on his offer. I wish Apple would. It would speed up their ability to provide a usable electric car.
Agreed and such a good match, Apple and Elon. In fact maybe Apple should be looking to space too.
Here we go again. Different charging standards for different vehicles. Aargh !!! Do these goons know how to share technology so we the consumer don't get screwed... again.
Since when has Apple gone with the incumbent standard?
Here we go again. Different charging standards for different vehicles. Aargh !!! Do these goons know how to share technology so we the consumer don't get screwed... again.
How do we know it will be different standards? Apple Pay doesn't use propriety standards.
Do you think Apple will let you plug your Android Car charger into their beautiful Apple Car? How dare you with the insinuation! /s
There are already two level 3 charging standards, CHAdeMO and CCS. All Apple has to do is ask the CHAdeMO Quick-Charging Association or the Charging Interface Initiative to get more information. Tesla is a member of both organizations.
Thank you jvmb for the insight. I wish AppleInsider would update the article to feature the relevant info you mentioned, and possibly elaborate further. Seems impertinent to the discussion. Thanks again
...Why not just swap out the battery? Think about it. Changing a battery could be a matter of seconds if perfected...
You have a good imagination. Tho, it's hard for me not to associate your battery concept with the ubiquity of removable/swappable batteries across the Android lineup. Easier for me to imagine this tech to be included in Google's upcoming car, not Apple's. When's the last time Apple made an effort to make swapping batteries a design decision? They've done the opposite of lately. Of course, this does not disprove your interesting theory.
As long as we are still talking about *charging*, I think we are missing the point entirely. What is the main problem of electric mobility? It is range. How can that be solved? Larger batteries? Maybe. Faster charging? Probably. But wait. Is the problem really RANGE? Or is it the time it takes to CHARGE a battery? Well, the former is a result of the latter. So, why bother trying to solve the (re)charging problem? Why put up with the time it takes to complete this process? Why not just swap out the battery? Think about it. Changing a battery could be a matter of seconds if perfected. Who would care about range if all you needed to do was to drive through some battery-swapping point, pay with your Apple-ID and off you went. Apple has the resources to implement swapping (not charging) stations and to perfect the process. It is all about standards. If Apple sets the standard for swappable battery packs then other car manufacturers could participate by supporting the same system. If Apple lets them. Which they probably would have to. No point any other way, really.
Long story short, for local commuting, the current EVs with current charging technology are more than sufficient to meet our needs. We just need to get out of the gasoline car mentality of driving it until we are nearly out of fuel and refilling. If you do that with an EV, you will have a problem. Luckily that's not how we use EVs. We immediately refill the little capacity we used in the day so we actually never worry about refilling. It is a huge convenience compared to going to the gas station every week. I'm not even talking about the cost savings associated with EVs.
I agree. I have an EV with 84 miles of range. I have only needed to recharge the car once while away from home because our plans changed after we left and we ended up driving further. Normally I take my ICE car on longer trips.
People should not buy an EV as their only car. At least not yet. If you want an EV, but you want flexibility to go on a long trip, then buy a Chevy Volt. The best use case for EVs is for multi car households living in a singly family home with a garage or at least a driveway. That market is not even close to being saturated.
If you look at it for a car manufacturer perspective, why would they go after more complex markets in city centers and rural areas where a charging infrastructure and longer range are required if there is still a big market for short to medium range EVs that can be charged at home in suburbs.
Look AI, I like you. But please TAKE DOWN that stupid God awful Apple Car "mock up". It's a joke. No seriously, somebody (most likely an apple Hater) made it as joke. Why can't some one just photo shop a tesla with an on it?? Anything is better than that POS
I think they're taunting Apple with that photo to get them to release a hint of what it might really look like.
No, they used that picture because they knew people would comment on it. It's a page click thing.
Long story short, for local commuting, the current EVs with current charging technology are more than sufficient to meet our needs. We just need to get out of the gasoline car mentality of driving it until we are nearly out of fuel and refilling. If you do that with an EV, you will have a problem. Luckily that's not how we use EVs. We immediately refill the little capacity we used in the day so we actually never worry about refilling. It is a huge convenience compared to going to the gas station every week. I'm not even talking about the cost savings associated with EVs.
I agree. I have an EV with 84 miles of range. I have only needed to recharge the car once while away from home because our plans changed after we left and we ended up driving further. Normally I take my ICE car on longer trips.
People should not buy an EV as their only car. At least not yet. If you want an EV, but you want flexibility to go on a long trip, then buy a Chevy Volt. The best use case for EVs is for multi car households living in a singly family home with a garage or at least a driveway. That market is not even close to being saturated.
If you look at it for a car manufacturer perspective, why would they go after more complex markets in city centers and rural areas where a charging infrastructure and longer range are required if there is still a big market for short to medium range EVs that can be charged at home in suburbs.
People may not be aware that just heating the interior of an EV in winter can decrease the batteriy's capacity substantially. A better choice in that case might be a Prius or a Volt, parallel and serial hybrids respectively, a diesel, or just the latest direct injection engine technology.
People may not be aware that just heating the interior of an EV in winter can decrease the batteriy's capacity substantially.
On the other hand, Why on earth do EVs use induction heaters? We know that a home bar heater is the least efficient, and a heat pump is 5 times as effective, and yet in EVs they're going old school.
Cars already have AC (heat pumps). So reverse the cycle and use them to heat!
People may not be aware that just heating the interior of an EV in winter can decrease the batteriy's capacity substantially.
On the other hand, Why on earth do EVs use induction heaters? We know that a home bar heater is the least efficient, and a heat pump is 5 times as effective, and yet in EVs they're going old school.
Cars already have AC (heat pumps). So reverse the cycle and use them to heat!
They don't all use induction heaters. Pretty sure the Leaf uses a heat pump.
I agree. I have an EV with 84 miles of range. I have only needed to recharge the car once while away from home because our plans changed after we left and we ended up driving further. Normally I take my ICE car on longer trips.
People should not buy an EV as their only car. At least not yet. If you want an EV, but you want flexibility to go on a long trip, then buy a Chevy Volt. The best use case for EVs is for multi car households living in a singly family home with a garage or at least a driveway. That market is not even close to being saturated.
If you look at it for a car manufacturer perspective, why would they go after more complex markets in city centers and rural areas where a charging infrastructure and longer range are required if there is still a big market for short to medium range EVs that can be charged at home in suburbs.
People may not be aware that just heating the interior of an EV in winter can decrease the batteriy's capacity substantially. A better choice in that case might be a Prius or a Volt, parallel and serial hybrids respectively, a diesel, or just the latest direct injection engine technology.
Actually heating the interior in winter is not as big of a problem as the fact that the battery loses capacity in cold conditions. Where I live it drops down to 50 degrees F in winter and I loose about 15% of my battery capacity compared to summer, when temperatures reach over 100 degrees.
As for heating the interior, GM has a neat solution for that. If you remote-start your car with the app on your phone, it also turns on the heat to a predefined setting while the car is still plugged in. That way you don't use any energy from the battery to heat up the cabin to a comfortable level. In my case, the interior stays warm enough for my entire commute without the need for me to turn on the heat while driving.
I know other people may have longer commutes and/or colder weather conditions, but in the worst case scenario, you only have to maintain a comfortable temperature using battery power. That is a huge saving of energy.
On the other hand, Why on earth do EVs use induction heaters? We know that a home bar heater is the least efficient, and a heat pump is 5 times as effective, and yet in EVs they're going old school.
Cars already have AC (heat pumps). So reverse the cycle and use them to heat!
They don't all use induction heaters. Pretty sure the Leaf uses a heat pump.
With some EVs, we need to bare in mind that they are compliance vehicles, meaning that they only exist in order to meet some zero-emissions mandate, like we have in California.
What manufacturers do is they take an existing model and replace the internal combustion engine with an electric motor and stuff a few battery cells where they can. Since these cars are only available in limited quantities in select markets only, and the manufacturer usually sells them at a loss, there is no incentive for them to replace the existing heating system.
Comments
My car has a17 kWh battery, and it goes roughly 80 miles on a full charge. To fully recharge an empty battery, it takes 20 hours on a Level 1 charger, 4 hours on a Level 2 charger (which I have at home), and 20 minutes on a Level 3 DC fast charger (available all over California).
With that in mind consider typical usage. When I leave in the morning my battery is fully charged. I go to work, I do some shopping, etc, which takes me no more than 20 miles, so when I get home, I plug into a level 2 charger and my battery is full again in less than 1.5 hours. If I go to a place that offers free public charging (there are plenty of those) then I don't even have to plug in at home.
Long stiry short, for local commuting, the current EVs with current charging technology are more than sufficient to meet our needs. We just need to get out of the gasoline car mentality of driving it until we are nearly out of fuel and refilling. If you do that with an EV, you will have a problem. Luckily that's not how we use EVs. We immediately refill the little capacity we used in the day so we actually never worry about refilling. It is a huge convenience compared to going to the gas station every week. I'm not even talking about the cost savings associated with EVs.
The only thing left is long distance travel. Tesla offers access to their supercharger network and for non-Tesla EVs there are stations from NRG EVgo, and a few other companies. When I go to San Francisco Airport, which is 130 miles from my house, I leave with a full battery, I stop at an EVGo station about halfway, I spend 20 minutes recharging and I am on my way. With a Tesla or Chevy Bolt I wouldn't even need to stop. My point is, stopping for 20-30 minutes to recharge isn't such s big deal. And that's with current technology. ChaDeMo and CCS plugs pump current at 50 kW, while Tesla superchargers run at 120 kW. In future, CCS will run at 350 kW, meaning that it will recharge a car capable of traveling 300 miles, in less than 1 hour.
Looking a little further into the future, we could have highways that inductively charge EVs. There is a lot of research in that area, with the BMW i8 already capable of inductive charging.
Finally, Tesla already offered battery swapping for Model S, but after a trial run they discontinued the practice. They found that almost no customer was willing to pay $60 for a battery swap, when they could recharge their own battery in 30 minutes for free. It makes perfect sense, you've been driving 200 miles, stopping for 30 minutes to stretch your legs and grab a bite to eat is perfectly plausible, after all, charging stations are located near restaurants and other retail spaces, so it's very convenient to do that.
Thank you jvmb for the insight. I wish AppleInsider would update the article to feature the relevant info you mentioned, and possibly elaborate further. Seems impertinent to the discussion. Thanks again
People should not buy an EV as their only car. At least not yet. If you want an EV, but you want flexibility to go on a long trip, then buy a Chevy Volt. The best use case for EVs is for multi car households living in a singly family home with a garage or at least a driveway. That market is not even close to being saturated.
If you look at it for a car manufacturer perspective, why would they go after more complex markets in city centers and rural areas where a charging infrastructure and longer range are required if there is still a big market for short to medium range EVs that can be charged at home in suburbs.
Cars already have AC (heat pumps). So reverse the cycle and use them to heat!
As for heating the interior, GM has a neat solution for that. If you remote-start your car with the app on your phone, it also turns on the heat to a predefined setting while the car is still plugged in. That way you don't use any energy from the battery to heat up the cabin to a comfortable level. In my case, the interior stays warm enough for my entire commute without the need for me to turn on the heat while driving.
I know other people may have longer commutes and/or colder weather conditions, but in the worst case scenario, you only have to maintain a comfortable temperature using battery power. That is a huge saving of energy.
What manufacturers do is they take an existing model and replace the internal combustion engine with an electric motor and stuff a few battery cells where they can. Since these cars are only available in limited quantities in select markets only, and the manufacturer usually sells them at a loss, there is no incentive for them to replace the existing heating system.