The only reason Google is considering this option is because the major Android licensees (Samsung, HTC, etc..) have been grumbling about Google's stranglehold with Android and their admission that they are actively working on their own (and botched) mobile OS to ween themselves off of Android. It's only a matter of time before they jump ship so Google has no other option but to directly get into the market.
I'm sure Google is concerned. Eventually, it will be like the 90's and early 2000's when all the phone makers have their own OS and nothing works with one another. Apple paved the way early and successfully. To Apple, it's just another day. To Google, it's the sign that they will be a footnote in history about what not to do.
As of now Android is best for HTC, Samsung and all the other OEMs on every front. Google does most of the hard work, all the OEMs have to do is throw it on a phone. It would require a lot more money to R&D an entire OS from scratch.
Also we know from the windows phone experience that a new OS will have an uphill battle. People like Android I know for many that is a surprise to hear. While working for a telecom I ran into customers who had purchased windows phones and where angry it was not Android. Many of them were lied that it was just like an Android by a sells rep. Fact is it is an up hill battle to start a new OS both iOS both have 1mil plus apps available. That's a large gap to attempt to fill. Everyone has a contingency plan that's business but their first plan is Android.
Also Google still does not put to much control over Android. They only have requirements for being able to get the google services on the device. If you want you could build your on version of Android place it on a phone and it can be a clone of MacOs and Google will not care.
How is it best? Most ARE MAKING NO MONEY. And with the ASP of Android phones in freefall, they'll make even less in the future.
Wow, "only have requirement to get Google Servces"!!!!!!! That's the whole game, that's the place were money is made. That's the reason OEM's are mad.
The simple thing Google is about to get sued left and right for its the
fact it prevents Samsung and the like from forking Android. There is a good chance they'll lose that court fight.
Those OEM will basically all be bankrupt or be Google's bitch if things continue the way it is now.
More direct competition with Apple, eh? How about more direct competition with its Android partners or do the partners no longer matter? How will Google's new smartphone decrease the growth of fragmentation? I see Google's new smartphone accelerating Android fragmentation due to partners deciding to more fully differentiate themselves from Google. Also, what will Google possibly do differently from the Nexus line that will convince Android customers to jump from Samsung, LG and others outside of China since Google will not be able to sell its new smartphone in China? The Apple angle gets clicks, but the true story is with the Android partnerships..
I'm sure they're frustrated with fragmentation and the push from larger phone makers (Samsung, Huawei, etc.) to develop proprietary OS. And sure, they'll sell a few - but nowhere the quantities that the top vendors do. Regardless, how does this not alienate existing partners?
Google has never failed with making phones. All the Nexus phones are "reference designs", not meant to sell in large quantities. In fact, if they did sell in large quantities, then they'd be a failure!
As of now Android is best for HTC, Samsung and all the other OEMs on every front. Google does most of the hard work, all the OEMs have to do is throw it on a phone. It would require a lot more money to R&D an entire OS from scratch.
Also we know from the windows phone experience that a new OS will have an uphill battle. People like Android I know for many that is a surprise to hear. While working for a telecom I ran into customers who had purchased windows phones and where angry it was not Android. Many of them were lied that it was just like an Android by a sells rep. Fact is it is an up hill battle to start a new OS both iOS both have 1mil plus apps available. That's a large gap to attempt to fill. Everyone has a contingency plan that's business but their first plan is Android.
Also Google still does not put to much control over Android. They only have requirements for being able to get the google services on the device. If you want you could build your on version of Android place it on a phone and it can be a clone of MacOs and Google will not care.
How is it best? Most ARE MAKING NO MONEY. And with the ASP of Android phones in freefall, they'll make even less in the future.
Wow, "only have requirement to get Google Servces"!!!!!!! That's the whole game, that's the place were money is made. That's the reason OEM's are mad.
The simple thing Google is about to get sued left and right for its the
fact it prevents Samsung and the like from forking Android. There is a good chance they'll lose that court fight.
Those OEM will basically all be bankrupt or be Google's bitch if things continue the way it is now.
The ASP of low end devices is plummeting but flagships are still seeing good sells. Samsung had a extremely profitable quarter last quarter due to its Galaxy S line. Forking Android has no benefits to customers and developers which is why Google prohibits it's partners from engaging in it. Fragmentation is a problem for Android apps forking it will make that problem a nightmare with no light at the end if the tunnel.
How is it best? Most ARE MAKING NO MONEY. And with the ASP of Android phones in freefall, they'll make even less in the future.
Wow, "only have requirement to get Google Servces"!!!!!!! That's the whole game, that's the place were money is made. That's the reason OEM's are mad.
The simple thing Google is about to get sued left and right for its the
fact it prevents Samsung and the like from forking Android. There is a good chance they'll lose that court fight.
Those OEM will basically all be bankrupt or be Google's bitch if things continue the way it is now.
The ASP of low end devices is plummeting but flagships are still seeing good sells. Samsung had a extremely profitable quarter last quarter due to its Galaxy S line. Forking Android has no benefits to customers and developers which is why Google prohibits it's partners from engaging in it. Fragmentation is a problem for Android apps forking it will make that problem a nightmare with no light at the end if the tunnel.
Why the hell do you even talk about Samsung, they're the only one making money and even they said they're looking at boosting their margins (AKA they don't think they're margin are currently high enough, that's news that just leaked out). So, basically that's my whole argument made by them.
Also, Samsung's high end phones are just 15% of the phones they sell and they're the only ones selling a substantial number of them. 85-90% of Android phones are mid to low end phones and their price are in a freefall and OEM are strugling to make money off them (even Samsung by their own admission).
You do know what ASP means don't you? If the ASP of all devices goes down, means that the top device don't compensate. With overall industry revenues going down,,, satuation of market increasing, profit margins and profits falling the whole industry is in for a rough ride (even Apple). If you're currently barely making money like the OEM's, it is bound to get even worse
Interesting that Google is doing this. Their model must be under greater pressure than would appear at a casual glance.
They cannot hope to beat Samsung in building a better device. In fact, they will need to source much of the hardware from Samsung. The phone won't be as good. And it will be just another device powered by the same QCOM SoC. It won't sell in China and it won't stop Samsung from continuing its Tizen development. Huawei is also keen on developing its own OS.
Tizen is actually a very powerful mobile OS that scales well. It's better than Android in many ways. It's only problem is the lack of apps and a developer base. However, if Samsung could partner with Huawei, those two control 30% of the smartphone market.
The developers would come for a product with that kind of market share. Google absolutely must hedge Android but they are incapable of building their own hardware.
And their search product is now under grave threat from Amazon. Amazon has greatly lessened the need to perform web based search when conducting Ecommerce by the development of their own app. Tapping the Amazon app is the first thing many people do. They no longer "Google" products. Huge loss of potential revenue for Google. And then there's the Echo which Woz thinks is the next big thing. The Echo is the best voice interface period. Apple will beef up Siri, but Google's effort will fail.
Google is far too undisciplined. They don't really know what they want to do outside of search. The result is a bunch of half cocked projects from their cloud, fiber and now handset effort. They are losing big time to Facebook's oculus in VR. In fact Samsung's VR is based on Oculus, not on Google's to be released version.
When Google search fails and it's really only a matter of time, the company will have nothing of substance to take its place as a revenue generator.
Interesting that Google is doing this. Their model must be under greater pressure than would appear at a casual glance.
They cannot hope to beat Samsung in building a better device. In fact, they will need to source much of the hardware from Samsung. The phone won't be as good. And it will be just another device powered by the same QCOM SoC. It won't sell in China and it won't stop Samsung from continuing its Tizen development. Huawei is also keen on developing its own OS.
Tizen is actually a very powerful mobile OS that scales well. It's better than Android in many ways. It's only problem is the lack of apps and a developer base. However, if Samsung could partner with Huawei, those two control 30% of the smartphone market.
The developers would come for a product with that kind of market share. Google absolutely must hedge Android but they are incapable of building their own hardware.
And their search product is now under grave threat from Amazon. Amazon has greatly lessened the need to perform web based search when conducting Ecommerce by the development of their own app. Tapping the Amazon app is the first thing many people do. They no longer "Google" products. Huge loss of potential revenue for Google. And then there's the Echo which Woz thinks is the next big thing. The Echo is the best voice interface period. Apple will beef up Siri, but Google's effort will fail.
Google is far too undisciplined. They don't really know what they want to do outside of search. The result is a bunch of half cocked projects from their cloud, fiber and now handset effort. They are losing big time to Facebook's oculus in VR. In fact Samsung's VR is based on Oculus, not on Google's to be released version.
When Google search fails and it's really only a matter of time, the company will have nothing of substance to take its place as a revenue generator.
IDK, anything about Tizen, but agree with your points re Google.
If this rumor is true, it appears as if Google is trying to disrupt the Android Market ... Possibly releasing a new phone with a proprietary OS, App Store and a migration path for developers (existing Android apps will run with a recompile).
The king is dead -- long live the king.
That would be pretty heady stuff, but very risky -- as you say, who's going to build the phone? With what parts, from whom?
Likely, there is a better way -- less risky, less costly and delivering the results they desire to Google and their partners.
Why the hell do you even talk about Samsung, they're the only one making money and even they said they're looking at boosting their margins (AKA they don't think they're margin are currently high enough, that's news that just leaked out). So, basically that's my whole argument made by them.
Huawei, the 2nd largest Android vendor after Samsung, is privately owned and only publishes a global yearly profit figure, about 10% of their revenue. Your claim that only Samsung is making money with Android smartphones is just speculation.
The ASP of low end devices is plummeting but flagships are still seeing good sells. Samsung had a extremely profitable quarter last quarter due to its Galaxy S line. Forking Android has no benefits to customers and developers which is why Google prohibits it's partners from engaging in it. Fragmentation is a problem for Android apps forking it will make that problem a nightmare with no light at the end if the tunnel.
Why the hell do you even talk about Samsung, they're the only one making money and even they said they're looking at boosting their margins (AKA they don't think they're margin are currently high enough, that's news that just leaked out). So, basically that's my whole argument made by them.
Also, Samsung's high end phones are just 15% of the phones they sell and they're the only ones selling a substantial number of them. 85-90% of Android phones are mid to low end phones and their price are in a freefall and OEM are strugling to make money off them (even Samsung by their own admission).
You do know what ASP means don't you? If the ASP of all devices goes down, means that the top device don't compensate. With overall industry revenues going down,,, satuation of market increasing, profit margins and profits falling the whole industry is in for a rough ride (even Apple). If you're currently barely making money like the OEM's, it is bound to get even worse
Appears that Apple is being very conservative about orders, and that there is a trend by Chinese handset manufacturers to grab marketshare, which translates to lower ASP's for all of Android OEM's. Likely Google would only get into a branded handset to grab some of the expected growth in VR and such; otherwise, not much to gain.
Google lack the talent to product reliable hardware, this will just be another failure.
Honestly anyone can hack together software that somewhat works, even if they get it wrong they can easily throw people at it and over night fix the issue. I know software type had hearing this since they think they better than this. With hardware you do not get a second chance, once it out there you can not recall it or patch over bad hardware. This is what Apple does very well they know how to make good hardware and software and do not rely on its customer base to be their test platform. Yeah I know Apple has made mistake everyone does but it is not their business model to be good enough and we will fix it later.
I will give you a good example, Both Apple and MS make OS for computers, go can count all the updated Apple has release over the last year since releasing 10.11 no go count all the updates MS pushed out in the last year. I give this example since Google does not release update for the good enough Android software since there is no way to get it to 90% of the user base. Google and its partners hope their consumers will pay for new hardware to get fixes and new features.
Google lack the talent to product reliable hardware, this will just be another failure.
Yup, yet another reason it ain't happinin' IMHO. Of course in the unlikely event there is any truth to it Google would most certainly contract the build just as Apple does since neither one owns its own production factories for hardware products.
Google lack the talent to product reliable hardware, this will just be another failure.
Yup, yet another reason it ain't happinin' IMHO. Of course in the unlikely event there is any truth to it Google would most certainly contract the build just as Apple does since neither one owns its own production factories for hardware products.
Apple doesn't only "contract the build". In many cases, Apple actually engineers the manufacturing process to be used, and provides equipment, fixtures and onsite engineering support; you can see this in their financials. Probably more akin to how NASA contracts space vehicles than how commodity hardware is produced. Not to imply that Google doesn't do this, just that they aren't known for it.
Much of Apple's success with the iPhone has been linked to the company having direct control over both software and hardware, the latter of which is its main profit driver. Google has been growing the number of physical products it offers though, and earlier this year launched a new hardware division under former Motorola president Rick Osterloh.
*yawn*
Google has had very little success, just like Microsoft in the hardware business to date, but unlike Microsoft it doesn't have the albatross of putting out poorly designed products (*cough*xbox360*cough*) that hurts later better devices. Rather Google's albatross comes from the Android OS itself and it's legal battles over Java.
Who would seriously want to develop for Android's native Java-Dalvik? Who really? When Android was developed it's target was RIM and all the Java2SE ecosystem. It never considered that maybe software should be developed in C/C++/OBJC. Developers hate all the extra cruft that has to be added to interface with the Java bits of Android. This results in the Android version of an app always being the inferior app on otherwise equally powerful hardware.
But Android hardware tends to not be consistently powerful either. I've had some long discussions on a HTML5 game forum where almost nobody with an Android smartphone can get the games to work, and only the native iPhone Webview actually works as designed. The Android webview is rubbish and until 4.4.4 didn't even work with WebGL. So an iPhone 6/6S game runs at 60fps where as not a single Android phone can (among the people actually trying it.)
Google would be far better off dumping all the Java parts of Android if it wants Android to survive, otherwise it's going to continue to be a problem like the Windows 3.1 era where "apps" work fine but games run poorly.
If this is true, Google is fake. To make a product of its own, the company has to take responsibility of the product. But this responsibility costs money. From past deals, Google will not do this.
And since Google would be making money, Apple could finally sue Google for patent violations. Google couldn't hide behind the free Android joke.
They can sue them now. There is nothing preventing Apple from getting $Billions from them if they have a strong case. Making a profit from IP theft isn't required. Your assumption of why Apple hasn't yet sued Google is bogus.
Comments
Wow, "only have requirement to get Google Servces"!!!!!!! That's the whole game, that's the place were money is made.
That's the reason OEM's are mad.
The simple thing Google is about to get sued left and right for its the fact it prevents Samsung and the like from forking Android.
There is a good chance they'll lose that court fight.
Those OEM will basically all be bankrupt or be Google's bitch if things continue the way it is now.
Also, Samsung's high end phones are just 15% of the phones they sell and they're the only ones selling a substantial number of them. 85-90% of Android phones are mid to low end phones and their price are in a freefall and OEM are strugling to make money off them (even Samsung by their own admission).
You do know what ASP means don't you? If the ASP of all devices goes down, means that the top device don't compensate.
With overall industry revenues going down,,, satuation of market increasing, profit margins and profits falling the whole industry is in for a rough ride (even Apple).
If you're currently barely making money like the OEM's, it is bound to get even worse
They cannot hope to beat Samsung in building a better device. In fact, they will need to source much of the hardware from Samsung. The phone won't be as good. And it will be just another device powered by the same QCOM SoC. It won't sell in China and it won't stop Samsung from continuing its Tizen development. Huawei is also keen on developing its own OS.
Tizen is actually a very powerful mobile OS that scales well. It's better than Android in many ways. It's only problem is the lack of apps and a developer base. However, if Samsung could partner with Huawei, those two control 30% of the smartphone market.
The developers would come for a product with that kind of market share. Google absolutely must hedge Android but they are incapable of building their own hardware.
And their search product is now under grave threat from Amazon. Amazon has greatly lessened the need to perform web based search when conducting Ecommerce by the development of their own app. Tapping the Amazon app is the first thing many people do. They no longer "Google" products. Huge loss of potential revenue for Google. And then there's the Echo which Woz thinks is the next big thing. The Echo is the best voice interface period. Apple will beef up Siri, but Google's effort will fail.
Google is far too undisciplined. They don't really know what they want to do outside of search. The result is a bunch of half cocked projects from their cloud, fiber and now handset effort. They are losing big time to Facebook's oculus in VR. In fact Samsung's VR is based on Oculus, not on Google's to be released version.
When Google search fails and it's really only a matter of time, the company will have nothing of substance to take its place as a revenue generator.
IDK, anything about Tizen, but agree with your points re Google.
If this rumor is true, it appears as if Google is trying to disrupt the Android Market ... Possibly releasing a new phone with a proprietary OS, App Store and a migration path for developers (existing Android apps will run with a recompile).
The king is dead -- long live the king.
That would be pretty heady stuff, but very risky -- as you say, who's going to build the phone? With what parts, from whom?
Likely, there is a better way -- less risky, less costly and delivering the results they desire to Google and their partners.
Appears that Apple is being very conservative about orders, and that there is a trend by Chinese handset manufacturers to grab marketshare, which translates to lower ASP's for all of Android OEM's. Likely Google would only get into a branded handset to grab some of the expected growth in VR and such; otherwise, not much to gain.
Google lack the talent to product reliable hardware, this will just be another failure.
Honestly anyone can hack together software that somewhat works, even if they get it wrong they can easily throw people at it and over night fix the issue. I know software type had hearing this since they think they better than this. With hardware you do not get a second chance, once it out there you can not recall it or patch over bad hardware. This is what Apple does very well they know how to make good hardware and software and do not rely on its customer base to be their test platform. Yeah I know Apple has made mistake everyone does but it is not their business model to be good enough and we will fix it later.
I will give you a good example, Both Apple and MS make OS for computers, go can count all the updated Apple has release over the last year since releasing 10.11 no go count all the updates MS pushed out in the last year. I give this example since Google does not release update for the good enough Android software since there is no way to get it to 90% of the user base. Google and its partners hope their consumers will pay for new hardware to get fixes and new features.
*yawn*
Google has had very little success, just like Microsoft in the hardware business to date, but unlike Microsoft it doesn't have the albatross of putting out poorly designed products (*cough*xbox360*cough*) that hurts later better devices. Rather Google's albatross comes from the Android OS itself and it's legal battles over Java.
Who would seriously want to develop for Android's native Java-Dalvik? Who really? When Android was developed it's target was RIM and all the Java2SE ecosystem. It never considered that maybe software should be developed in C/C++/OBJC. Developers hate all the extra cruft that has to be added to interface with the Java bits of Android. This results in the Android version of an app always being the inferior app on otherwise equally powerful hardware.
But Android hardware tends to not be consistently powerful either. I've had some long discussions on a HTML5 game forum where almost nobody with an Android smartphone can get the games to work, and only the native iPhone Webview actually works as designed. The Android webview is rubbish and until 4.4.4 didn't even work with WebGL. So an iPhone 6/6S game runs at 60fps where as not a single Android phone can (among the people actually trying it.)
Google would be far better off dumping all the Java parts of Android if it wants Android to survive, otherwise it's going to continue to be a problem like the Windows 3.1 era where "apps" work fine but games run poorly.