Fun fact for DED and people who feel similarly: Turkey's military is charged with maintaining a secular, fair government. This is them fulfilling that duty.
Meanwhile, God-King Obama has said before that Erdogan is the leader he identifies most with. Says a lot, really.
Yes, and of course White Falcon you're going to provide us with the link to Obama's saying that, right? You and Trump - just make it up as you go along: “Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering.” And now the topper: "It's very sad when somebody called for a moment of silence for this maniac that killed the five police, you know you just see what's going on and it's a very, very sad situation and hopefully it can be healed." Utter fabrications, red meat tossed to the base. Don't forget to wipe your chin when you're done feasting.
I don't like that dictator. Hopefully he gets what's coming to him.
It's quite ironic that the censorship happy dictator, who loves to censor news and the internet is desperately communicating through the internet, using FaceTime.
Obama has of course already spoken out in support of the freedom hating dictator.
The world could use more coups. It's time to throw out the trash.
Turkey is a member of NATO and a primary US ally in the Middle East, so Obama doesn't have much leeway in whether he gets to "support" the country.
But if you don't like dictators, think about the Republican nominee and his bromance with Putin and his accolades for Saddam Hussein. The US has its own conservative right wing & religious fundamentalists who been marching toward converting the nation into this exact same type of religious-dictatorship. I hope you feel the same way about freedom in the US as you express regarding Turkey.
The bummer is that those leader are religious, sectarian and fundamentalist but not spiritual at any means.
The Turkish military is what the Turks have to preserve a semblance of secularism and ameliorate against the infantalism of the Quranic psyche of many now in power, as expressed by the likes of The deputy Prime Minister, Bülent Arinc in 2014:
"A man should be moral but women should be moral as well, they should know what is decent and what is not decent," Arinc said in a speech on Monday, in the western Bursa region for the Bayram holiday that marks the end of Ramadan.
"She should not laugh loudly in front of all the world and should preserve her decency at all times," he added."
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It is that mindset that Turkish secularists are up against. Erdogan will now replace the top echelons of the military - especially at the Colonel level - with Quran-friendly people to prevent another coup attempt. After the ineptness displayed in the last few days, there will be a lot of popular support from the Quranic elements for him to do so.
And such a country is a member of NATO? We can't not admit to deep feelings of discomfort over the Quranic-ethos and values (see Quran 5:51) of the current Turkish authority just because it is a member of NATO. But this is precisely what is happening and not surprising. But when NATO meetings are disrupted for Muslim prayer time that will be the point at which Turkey should be jettisoned - come what may.
I really feel for Turkish secularists, their position has just become much, much weaker. Kemal Atatürk's modernising reforms have always been championed by the Turk military. The Emasculating of the military secularists power is now in full swing.
But when NATO meetings are disrupted for Muslim prayer time that will be the point at which Turkey should be jettisoned
That point was January 1, 1992, along with the rest of the alliance. We’d actually have been better off if Turkey had gone commie after the Ottoman Empire collapsed, because at least then it wouldn’t have ever been part of NATO.
I don't like that dictator. Hopefully he gets what's coming to him.
It's quite ironic that the censorship happy dictator, who loves to censor news and the internet is desperately communicating through the internet, using FaceTime.
Obama has of course already spoken out in support of the freedom hating dictator.
The world could use more coups. It's time to throw out the trash.
Turkey is a member of NATO and a primary US ally in the Middle East, so Obama doesn't have much leeway in whether he gets to "support" the country.
But if you don't like dictators, think about the Republican nominee and his bromance with Putin and his accolades for Saddam Hussein. The US has its own conservative right wing & religious fundamentalists who been marching toward converting the nation into this exact same type of religious-dictatorship. I hope you feel the same way about freedom in the US as you express regarding Turkey.
That doesn't mean much, though. I'm pretty sure Saddam was primary US ally during Iraq/Iran conflict.
Putin is hardly a saint, but at least he is very pragmatic. I prefer pragmatism to radical extremism, which seems to be direction of choice for Erdogan.
Saddam was bastard, but sometimes you need a bastard to do a job. What replaced Saddam is much worst. Likewise for Gaddafi. He was an oddball, but very benign one. A friend of mine was working for a while in Libya back in Gaddafi's days, and traveled a lot across region. Of all north African and middle-east countries, he has found Gaddafi's Libya the most moderate, most civilized, most citizens-centered country, with good social policies and quality of living, public health and education, relative to region.
Hillary was among loudest warmongers for Gaddafi's removal, if memory serves. Among other things. In my eyes, that woman is already so compromised that she shouldn't even deserve a chance to be a candidate. If nothing, she should be held responsible for bringing such misery to innocent people, just as Tony Blair should be. While Trump is far from ideal candidate, much as I am concerned, at least he is clean when it comes to political matters. I'm not telling that he wouldn't mess up - but at least he hasn't, so far, if for no other reason, then for not being in position to do so. At least he deserves a benefit of doubt that he might turn out to be another pragmatic and, eventually, reasonable leader who doesn't do much good, but equally doesn't do much damage either. I really have no doubts when it comes to Hillary.
Thanks DED for the article and I agree with your posts in the comments.
According to the standards of the historian Robert Paxton, Trump represents Stage 3 fascism. I would also beg to differ with the proTrump comments of the orher posters here. Poor (white) people are more likely to be proTrump than DNC. And Trump's support among the Christians in the South (my reference point) is very strong despite his lifestyle, hot wife/daughter and not very Christian lifestyle-thought process.
Having said that Jihadism (the PC-term for Islamism and I'm OK with the term too) is a threat to the West and needs to be dealt with in a direct fashion. Yes all the Abrahamic religions have their fanatics that harness their ideas in deadly ideas, but Jihadism is directly opposed to the Western secular way of life. And we must not use poorly thought out ideas like religious tolerance to cloud our judgement.
Erdogan was despicable to the Kurds, secular people, democratic ideals and was probably providing cover for the ISIS and their recruits to transit through his country.
I have very mixed feelings about the coup.But i tdoes seem like his FaceTime broadcast played a role in turning the tide.
Hopefully our "fascist" presendential candidates see the value of the iPhone and Apple to our American way of life as they tweet away.
What does hot wife/daughter have to do with anything...? Is it better from any religion's perspective if family members are unattractive...? Should good looking females be preemptively stoned, thrown from the cliff or executed in any other way?
What is so bad with Trump's lifestyle? He was married, divorced, he keeps close relation with his children from first marriage. To my knowledge, his first wife made a fortune out of divorce. He has remarried. His new wife is younger and pretty; comes with the money. His children from 1st marriage also look good. I haven't heard many scandals about Trump. At least he hasn't stayed married to adulterer who flat-out lied in front of US Senate and yet remained US President. What other reason might Hillary have to keep marriage, beside obvious cold-blooded interest to use it for her own political uprising?
Comments
This madness has to stop.
It is that mindset that Turkish secularists are up against. Erdogan will now replace the top echelons of the military - especially at the Colonel level - with Quran-friendly people to prevent another coup attempt. After the ineptness displayed in the last few days, there will be a lot of popular support from the Quranic elements for him to do so. And such a country is a member of NATO? We can't not admit to deep feelings of discomfort over the Quranic-ethos and values (see Quran 5:51) of the current Turkish authority just because it is a member of NATO. But this is precisely what is happening and not surprising. But when NATO meetings are disrupted for Muslim prayer time that will be the point at which Turkey should be jettisoned - come what may. I really feel for Turkish secularists, their position has just become much, much weaker. Kemal Atatürk's modernising reforms have always been championed by the Turk military. The Emasculating of the military secularists power is now in full swing.
Putin is hardly a saint, but at least he is very pragmatic. I prefer pragmatism to radical extremism, which seems to be direction of choice for Erdogan.
Saddam was bastard, but sometimes you need a bastard to do a job. What replaced Saddam is much worst. Likewise for Gaddafi. He was an oddball, but very benign one. A friend of mine was working for a while in Libya back in Gaddafi's days, and traveled a lot across region. Of all north African and middle-east countries, he has found Gaddafi's Libya the most moderate, most civilized, most citizens-centered country, with good social policies and quality of living, public health and education, relative to region.
Hillary was among loudest warmongers for Gaddafi's removal, if memory serves. Among other things. In my eyes, that woman is already so compromised that she shouldn't even deserve a chance to be a candidate. If nothing, she should be held responsible for bringing such misery to innocent people, just as Tony Blair should be. While Trump is far from ideal candidate, much as I am concerned, at least he is clean when it comes to political matters. I'm not telling that he wouldn't mess up - but at least he hasn't, so far, if for no other reason, then for not being in position to do so. At least he deserves a benefit of doubt that he might turn out to be another pragmatic and, eventually, reasonable leader who doesn't do much good, but equally doesn't do much damage either. I really have no doubts when it comes to Hillary.
What is so bad with Trump's lifestyle? He was married, divorced, he keeps close relation with his children from first marriage. To my knowledge, his first wife made a fortune out of divorce. He has remarried. His new wife is younger and pretty; comes with the money. His children from 1st marriage also look good. I haven't heard many scandals about Trump. At least he hasn't stayed married to adulterer who flat-out lied in front of US Senate and yet remained US President. What other reason might Hillary have to keep marriage, beside obvious cold-blooded interest to use it for her own political uprising?