Redesigned, ultra-thin MacBook Pro with AMD GPU not expected to debut at 'iPhone 7' event Sept. 7

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 60
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    rob53 said:
    Will this MacBook Pro actually be a "Pro" model or another space handicapped laptop? I need a new Mac, my iMac from early 2009 isn't going to run macOS Sierra so I need to figure out whether I want to buy a laptop and an external monitor or another iMac. I use my iPhone on the road but there are things that just won't work easily on a phone or an iPad. A laptop would be easy to take on the road but unless it's capable of doing all the things I do on my iMac, it won't be worth it.

    Will the AMD GPU be speed/performance limited because of its size? Will Apple be forced to use a speed-limited CPU because of cooling and battery life? 
    Laptops have been capable of doing everything you can do on your iMac for sometime now!   Seriously guy you have a 2009 iMac which is pretty pathetic these days performance wise.  As for your obsession with speed limited you do realize that all processors are speed limited due to thermal conditions the iMac included.  Apples Laptops, especially the Mac Book Pro have lead the field performance wise for years now.   Even the current MBP is hard to beat even using the newest hardware from competitors.  

    By by being a laptop solution the GPU is by default Spode limited.   No mobile GPU of the same architecture matches the performance of the desktop solutions.  Honestly guy I'm not sure what you are whining about.   Pretty pathetic really. 

    As as for this leak, I've been stating for months now that new Macs would ship when Apple has access to all the chips required.   14nm GPUs are just one of these items that will make the laptop updates worthwhile.  The problem is shipping 14nm laptop chips.  
  • Reply 42 of 60
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    cnocbui said:
    It shouldn't be. A bigger, but unappreciated problem with the current design is that MagSafe is limited to 85W when the design really needs 100. USB-C will allow for that. 

    But the GPU will be on a much better process, and use a more efficient arch. 
    I'll take a 15w theoretical deficit I have never personally encountered, over a smashed $2000+ computer, any day.
    The current model has a 47W CPU alone. Running both the CPU and the GPU at max pushes you to 91W. Older models were even worse; the 2012's were easily over 100W at peak. 
    Computers consuming more than their power supply can handle has been an ongoing issue.  Many machines rely upon the battery to make up for the power supplies limited capacity.  Some computers will actually discharge battery if executing a heavy workload, for an extended time, even if the charger is plugged in.  

    Im actually hoping for a system that is far more power efficient but Intel has dropped the ball so far so maybe that won't happen this year.  We do risk a drop in performance if Apple is transitioning to an even thinner MBP but this will only be temporary as Intel supposedly has more efficient technology coming.  People need to keep their eye on the ball, the technology demands Lowe rower points as the processes shrink so Apple will be thinning machines no matter what people think they should be doing.  In a couple of years I fully expect MBP like performance in a passively cooled Mac Book.   It is just the way of the world.
  • Reply 43 of 60
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    toranaga said:
    toranaga said:
    Tim Cook is not capable of running this company.
    LOL. Reality seems to prove otherwise.
    We shall see. It took a while for the company to go down under Sculley and Spindler.
    My contention is that he is not capable of running all the divisions. And now they have taken a big hit to their image in China, and sales of the iPhone
    in India are not good. And the OCD on 'wafer thin' at the expense of function.
    You do realize you are grossly out of touch here.

    poor sales in China are due to the government there generating anti American hatred so they can move forward with the China sea annexation.  

    Sales in India are all about the cost of hardware something that plays a similar role in China.  
    fastasleepwilliamlondonjahaja
  • Reply 44 of 60
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,056member
    toranaga said:
    Yuge!
    Brilliant.  Thanks.
    tallguy
  • Reply 45 of 60
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,056member
    Soli said:
    I wouldn't have expected it to be announced at the iPhone event. I would have expected an August (which is unlikely at this point) or October for all these new Macs. 
    Hopefully they will be out by October.   Worse would be announcing that they will be out in the Q4 but not showing up till almost the end of December
    tallguy
  • Reply 46 of 60
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,847member
    toranaga said:
    LOL. Reality seems to prove otherwise.
    We shall see. It took a while for the company to go down under Sculley and Spindler.
    My contention is that he is not capable of running all the divisions. And now they have taken a big hit to their image in China, and sales of the iPhone
    in India are not good. And the OCD on 'wafer thin' at the expense of function.
    He doesn't run "all the divisions" — that's what the SVPs do. He also doesn't design/engineer the products, not sure why you think he has OCD over thinness. What did Tim Cook do to not sell enough iPhones in India?

    Meanwhile, the money keeps pouring in...
    williamlondon
  • Reply 47 of 60
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,847member
    crowley said:
    The Mac release schedule is becoming a joke, I hope someone high up at Apple is screaming the place down that the current upgrade cycles for major product lines are not acceptable.
    Anyone high up at Apple would sound like an idiot for doing so, since they should be aware of internal product roadmaps. Anyone lower than that would get yelled at by their higher ups for their assuming the upper management doesn't know what they're doing. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 48 of 60
    toranaga said:
    We shall see. It took a while for the company to go down under Sculley and Spindler.
    My contention is that he is not capable of running all the divisions. And now they have taken a big hit to their image in China, and sales of the iPhone
    in India are not good. And the OCD on 'wafer thin' at the expense of function.
    He doesn't run "all the divisions" — that's what the SVPs do. He also doesn't design/engineer the products, not sure why you think he has OCD over thinness. What did Tim Cook do to not sell enough iPhones in India?

    Meanwhile, the money keeps pouring in...
    "oversee" the divisions. My mistake, but your ignorance is on display in the rest of the post. 
  • Reply 49 of 60
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,202member
    Please let them be insanely great.
    Please let them be insanely great.
    Please let them be insanely great.
    tallguy
  • Reply 50 of 60
    In regards to a Sept. 7 media event, doesn't Apple do them on Tuesdays?  I thought that they did, and Sept. 7 is a Wednesday.
    jahaja
  • Reply 51 of 60
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,847member
    toranaga said:
    He doesn't run "all the divisions" — that's what the SVPs do. He also doesn't design/engineer the products, not sure why you think he has OCD over thinness. What did Tim Cook do to not sell enough iPhones in India?

    Meanwhile, the money keeps pouring in...
    "oversee" the divisions. My mistake, but your ignorance is on display in the rest of the post. 
    Okay dude, have it your way. Tim designs all the products to be super thin and personally sells them himself in India but has been slacking, because he's too busy trying to get Eddy Cue to wear socks.
    sphericwilliamlondonjahaja
  • Reply 52 of 60
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,130member
    crowley said:
    The Mac release schedule is becoming a joke, I hope someone high up at Apple is screaming the place down that the current upgrade cycles for major product lines are not acceptable.
    Anyone high up at Apple would sound like an idiot for doing so, since they should be aware of internal product roadmaps. Anyone lower than that would get yelled at by their higher ups for their assuming the upper management doesn't know what they're doing. 
    The "internal product roadmap" is either unacceptable, or is not being met, which is also unacceptable.  Damn right someone should be saying this.  If no one inside Apple has any concerns at the amount of red here: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac then the company isn't working right.

    The Macbook Pro and Mac Pro in particular are a joke right now.
    singularitytoranaga
  • Reply 53 of 60

    Prototype Kaby Lake chips are now in manufacturer's hands. Since the next gen MacBook Pro will jettison its legacy ports, it only makes logical sense that Kaby Lake's native support for Thunderbolt 3, native USB 3.1, DisplayPort 1.2 and 2G graphics architecture to substantially improve performance (30x) in 3D graphics and 4K video playback would be Apple's choice for its next generation MacBook Pro. Timing is the issue, the Core i7-7500U 2.7-2.9GHz quad-core processors are not due until 2017. Apple has not updated the MacBook Pro from Broadwell because Intel has consistently missed delivery dates. If Intel can deliver Kaby Lake which has 2.5 times the performance with 3 times the battery life over Skylake in 2016, Apple will take the bait. Apple has a close relationship with Intel, it would not be the first time that Intel has rewarded Apple with an early release primary because Intel knows the it will be a game changer in that Apple's PC competitors will have to match specifications generating sales in a stagnant PC market. The upgrade to Kaby Lake will also bode well to support Apple's plan to shave off more than a few millimeters from the next gen MacBook Pro's thickness while increasing battery volume because Kaby Lake would help reduce the thermal need for heavy fan cooling. The 15 inch model will certainly have a dedicated Graphic Processing Unit by AMD with Polaris 11 architecture which will be thin and thermally efficient but have enough power to drive the next generation of Virtual Reality apps. The thickness reduction would be aided by metal injection molding by Surface Pro manufacturer Jarllytec along with a MacBook like keyboard with butterfly mechanism as the foot prints should be measurably smaller.

    Because of its new graphics capability, the next gen MacBook Pro could bump up retina to full 4K without too much of a hit on performance or battery life. A move to OLED or Apple's Micro LED would be unlikely but possible. At the same time as Kaby Lake becomes available, Intel/Micron's Optane SSD will be released with its 1000x improvement which would usher in a truly game changing next generation MacBook Pro.

    The top function row will be replaced with a full color OLED backlit touch screen whose icons would change given the context, application or other triggers. The new row will certainly incorporate a Touch ID sensor which is already supported in Sierra macOS. I suspect that changing all the mechanical keyboard backlighting to context sensitive color OLED icons for language, formulas and games may not make it into the next generation.

    The wider pressure-sensitive trackpad would almost certainly provide some of the Pencil capability as the iPad Pros. The iPad's like LTE capability could be natively supported although unlikely.

    williamlondoncrowleyfastasleepbigpicsjahaja
  • Reply 54 of 60
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    entropys said:
    Please let them be insanely great.
    Please let them be insanely great.
    Please let them be insanely great.
    Let's hope they up the quality of the power cables and stop using 3rd rate materials on something costing over $2K
    jahaja
  • Reply 55 of 60
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    cBraun said:
    What I find fascinating are those that whine about the ever thinning chassis, but then turn around and pine for smaller bezels. I use my MBP every single day and I don't think I've ever thought "boy, these black bezels are really ruining my experience." The only time I ever even consider them is when I see my dad's Dell XPS, which has impressively small bezels. At the same time, there's no "practical" reason for them to be smaller unless the machine fits easier into a bag or something. All of my bags are designed to fit this exact shape, so it's never been an issue. I'd much prefer a physically larger display fitted inside the same size chassis (thus having smaller bezels, but not for the sake of smaller bezels themselves). Then again I'd also prefer better/faster stuff inside a lower case that's the same size as it is now, instead of a thinner machine, but we know isn't going to happen.

    "…instead of a thinner machine, but we know isn't going to happen" has been my mantra for years.  I've been using 15" MBPs and tossing them in a carry bag to use elsewhere for years and it never occurred to me that if they were only lighter and thinner it would be better.  The difference now is that I can't get away with not packing a dock and a hub and their respective power warts.  I get the value of thinner and lighter, but they're just not selling points for me.  I wish Apple would have a great iPad and iPad Pro line, and great uber thin and light OS X laptop for those who desire them and not have it be at the expense of those for whom the perfect laptop would be the size of the 2008 MBP, for more air flow and more space to utilize new innovations which improve functionality and productivity instead of innovations that enable the same basic computing to happen in a smaller space.  They succeed in a great feat, but it's more or less all for a single benefit, which is portability, which is only one facet of a laptop. 

    Oh, and bezels schmezels  :  )
  • Reply 56 of 60
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,847member
    crowley said:
    Anyone high up at Apple would sound like an idiot for doing so, since they should be aware of internal product roadmaps. Anyone lower than that would get yelled at by their higher ups for their assuming the upper management doesn't know what they're doing. 
    The "internal product roadmap" is either unacceptable, or is not being met, which is also unacceptable.  Damn right someone should be saying this.  If no one inside Apple has any concerns at the amount of red here: http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac then the company isn't working right.

    The Macbook Pro and Mac Pro in particular are a joke right now.
    What I'm suggesting is that they are in a position where they're simply waiting for technology availability, whether it's Intel and AMD, but maybe something else as well such as next gen display tech yields. The first two are just becoming available now, so the clamoring for something 6 months ago when Skylake-H and Polaris were not available doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? 
  • Reply 57 of 60
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,602member
    toranaga said:
    OCD with "ultra-thin" continues. Fine if they have Thunderbolt 3 with external graphics card option. Delay in getting update out the door, ("Real artists ship"), meanwhile Mac sales volume down, market share down, means Apple missed a huge opportunity due to failed Windows 8.1 and unsatisfactory Windows 10. I am using OS X 11.4 and find it inferior to 11.3. Spotlight is buggy. I had to reboot the OS the other week due to a freeze-up. Tim Cook is not capable of running this company. Maybe Apple should buy Tesla and let Elon Musk run the whole operation. Then you could buy a spaceship, solar panels, batteries, and information technology all under one roof! Anyway, we need someone better running Apple. Maybe Trump if he doesn't win? Instead of making the laptops thinner, he would make them Yuge!
    I assume you mean 10.11.3, but the latest is 10.11.6, which I'm running on a late 2008 MBP with no problems whatsoever.   I did reboot the other day, but only because Word was screwing up.  No way to tell whether that was Microsoft's problem, a Mac problem or a virus, although my security software says I'm fine.   

    While I agree with you that Apple is too obsessed with form over function, I disagree with everything else.    

    Trump is not winning (and I believe he doesn't actually want to win).   This whole thing was a marketing and branding exercise for him, but I think when all is said and done, he's hurt his reputation more than he's helped it.   I doubt you'll see any other company license the Trump name again for a building or hotel.   
  • Reply 58 of 60
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member

    Prototype Kaby Lake chips are now in manufacturer's hands. Since the next gen MacBook Pro will jettison its legacy ports, it only makes logical sense that Kaby Lake's native support for Thunderbolt 3, native USB 3.1, DisplayPort 1.2 and 2G graphics architecture to substantially improve performance (30x) in 3D graphics and 4K video playback would be Apple's choice for its next generation MacBook Pro. Timing is the issue, the Core i7-7500U 2.7-2.9GHz quad-core processors are not due until 2017. Apple has not updated the MacBook Pro from Broadwell because Intel has consistently missed delivery dates. If Intel can deliver Kaby Lake which has 2.5 times the performance with 3 times the battery life over Skylake in 2016, Apple will take the bait. Apple has a close relationship with Intel, it would not be the first time that Intel has rewarded Apple with an early release primary because Intel knows the it will be a game changer in that Apple's PC competitors will have to match specifications generating sales in a stagnant PC market. The upgrade to Kaby Lake will also bode well to support Apple's plan to shave off more than a few millimeters from the next gen MacBook Pro's thickness while increasing battery volume because Kaby Lake would help reduce the thermal need for heavy fan cooling. The 15 inch model will certainly have a dedicated Graphic Processing Unit by AMD with Polaris 11 architecture which will be thin and thermally efficient but have enough power to drive the next generation of Virtual Reality apps. The thickness reduction would be aided by metal injection molding by Surface Pro manufacturer Jarllytec along with a MacBook like keyboard with butterfly mechanism as the foot prints should be measurably smaller.

    Because of its new graphics capability, the next gen MacBook Pro could bump up retina to full 4K without too much of a hit on performance or battery life. A move to OLED or Apple's Micro LED would be unlikely but possible. At the same time as Kaby Lake becomes available, Intel/Micron's Optane SSD will be released with its 1000x improvement which would usher in a truly game changing next generation MacBook Pro.

    The top function row will be replaced with a full color OLED backlit touch screen whose icons would change given the context, application or other triggers. The new row will certainly incorporate a Touch ID sensor which is already supported in Sierra macOS. I suspect that changing all the mechanical keyboard backlighting to context sensitive color OLED icons for language, formulas and games may not make it into the next generation.

    The wider pressure-sensitive trackpad would almost certainly provide some of the Pencil capability as the iPad Pros. The iPad's like LTE capability could be natively supported although unlikely.

    While I agree that Apple is waiting for chips that will make the upgrade worthwhile, i suspect that you have fallen under a marketing spell or two.   I really doubt that Kaby Lake with deliver 2.5 time the performance without a process shrink for one.    Knowing Apple battery size will shrink so that they have just enough power for all day operation and nothing more.   Actually for a power users machine that is pretty good performance.   As for Optane, shell we will wait and see how much the improved performance actually translates into faster secondary store.   

    Don't get me wrong I do believe a big update is coming I just don't see that big of a jump in performance.   Just look at AMD's desktop 14 nm GPU's which are performing really well as far as power usage goes but only match performance of some of the fastest chips out there.    Obviously mobile chips will be slower.   Again I would love to see a 14 nm GPU in the next MBP I just don't want people to get overly excited about the likely performance improvement.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 59 of 60
    With the Razer external GPU option now.  I give Apple's Laptops the long, quizzical look.

    GPU strength across the Mac range is on the weaker side.  (Something that, ironically, cannot be said of its iOS line...)  From the Pro, to the iMac to the laptops.  Hopefully between the fall's gpu line ups and Apple's refresh of its Mac line the situation will improve significantly as GPUs finally move to a superior process years in the making and waiting.

    I have an iMac.  I wonder.

    Why couldn't Apple just sell a 4k and 5k external monitor.  Have the Mac Pro case in 3 anodised flavours for the 'mini', the 'iMac' and the 'Pro.'  All cylinder tubes.  But with varying specs.  It would give them good flexibility of components, consolidate desktop manufacturing costs/parts with the potent engineered chases of the 'Pro.'

    For the laptops?  Plug in an external Razer GPU.

    It would simplify much of their desktop manufacturing.  It would simplify the engineering of the laptop lines with integrated gpu 'thinness' with the external power of GPU.

    You have Thunderbolt 3 and pretty much any augmented power is possible from gpu to storage.

    Lemon Bon Bon.

    PS.  I still remember the G3 blue and white tower.  I'm still bemused that a £1295-£1495 'gamer's' tower couldn't exist.  I remember watching the keynote with Steve and McCarmack.  It's like another universe with Apple's then resurgent commitment to games, easy access to the tower and a leading edge game keynote speaker.
    edited August 2016
  • Reply 60 of 60
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    With the Razer external GPU option now.  I give Apple's Laptops the long, quizzical look.

    GPU strength across the Mac range is on the weaker side.  (Something that, ironically, cannot be said of its iOS line...)  From the Pro, to the iMac to the laptops.  Hopefully between the fall's gpu line ups and Apple's refresh of its Mac line the situation will improve significantly as GPUs finally move to a superior process years in the making and waiting.

    I have an iMac.  I wonder.

    Why couldn't Apple just sell a 4k and 5k external monitor.  Have the Mac Pro case in 3 anodised flavours for the 'mini', the 'iMac' and the 'Pro.'  All cylinder tubes.  But with varying specs.  It would give them good flexibility of components, consolidate desktop manufacturing costs/parts with the potent engineered chases of the 'Pro.'

    For the laptops?  Plug in an external Razer GPU.

    It would simplify much of their desktop manufacturing.  It would simplify the engineering of the laptop lines with integrated gpu 'thinness' with the external power of GPU.

    You have Thunderbolt 3 and pretty much any augmented power is possible from gpu to storage.

    Lemon Bon Bon.

    PS.  I still remember the G3 blue and white tower.  I'm still bemused that a £1295-£1495 'gamer's' tower couldn't exist.  I remember watching the keynote with Steve and McCarmack.  It's like another universe with Apple's then resurgent commitment to games, easy access to the tower and a leading edge game keynote speaker.
    The funny state of GPU's in Apple products is hard to understand but Apple has been just plain stupid with GPU performance in macs for some time.   I can't really remember the last time there was an iMac or Mini with really good GPU performance.   The last Mini update did focus on the GPU but it is still an integrated Intel solution.   

    As for significant improvements, lots of luck there.   Everytime there has been a real process improvement Apple has just made a thinner device.   Seriously the history is pretty sad here.   

    As for the monitors, I think it is pretty simple Apple never sold enough to make the engineering worthwhile.   It is far easier for them to offer up third party monitors knowing how picky the professional market is.   This is likely why there has never been an Apple monitor to go with the new Mac Pro.

    As for external GPU's the problem here is the same as for an Apple video monitor, the cost would mean nobody would buy it.   If such a solution where to come to market it will be from a third party that doesn't have the massive overhead and margin demands that Apple has.   

    As for Apple and gaming I just don't get it.    They embraced gaming on the iPad but most of the sales go to corporate users.    On the Mac they seem to have settled for barely there GPU's even in the upset models.    It really makes no sense.    Think about it if someone is willing to pay extra for an up sell model you would think that Apple would make sure one of those models focuses on GPU performance for the users that want that and are willing to pay for that performance.

    In any event I'm still hoping that Apple pulls head from ass and delivers at least one desktop Mac with outstanding GPU performance.   Maybe a model built on the Pro platform with high performance desktop parts instead of workstation parts.   Apple should be able to deliver a well performing machine for well under $1500.

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