Apple reportedly squeezing 'iPhone 7' parts suppliers for better pricing

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  • Reply 41 of 53
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    MacBAir said:
    cnocbui said:
    I think they are working on not just a new design but a completely new way to make phones, probably making the whole thing - hopefully sparing the battery, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least if not - a unified single slab as if everything were embedded in a single block of epoxy resin.  Nothing will move, not even buttons.

    It couldn't be this year because the new design hinges strongly on  flexible Amoled displays and since Samsung is having to build more factories just to make them, an earlier time frame than next year just wasn't possible.
    Here's a simple explanation for why Apple is doing a major case redesign:  Because they felt it would give greater value to put that money elsewhere in components.

    For each model, there is a target internal cost, in order to maintain similar margins and final selling price.  If you have to spend money on engineering, tooling, new materials, etc. for the case, you have to spend less on the internal components.  I expect Apple is making a larger investment in the screen and camera technology this year (Display P3), so those are going to cost more.  For me, it's no contest - I would rather have Apple put in an upgraded screen and camera than spend the money on changing a case design.

    Ahahaha. The company that still sells TN panels on the MBAir? The company that still sells almost all devices with the same or less than 32 GB of storage? The company that sold devices with 1 GB of RAM until the 6 and 2 with the 6s? The company that puts mechanical hard drives on Macs costing thousands of dollars? The company that doesn't yupdate Macs with the latest and greatest processors like every other OEM? The company that uses the weakest cheapest camera module of all flagships? The company that still sells phones with LCD panels while their competitors have AMOLED offerings that are better on every single metric?

    That company? Putting that money elsewhere in components?

    Are we sure? Are you sure that it isn't squeezing as much as they can per device at all costs? Experience be damned?
    Interesting comments but you fail to realize something about the various Macs. There has been no real processor upgrade from Intel in two years now. The fact is the latest chips have not offered much in the way of real world performance increases. As such there has been little incentive for Apple to upgrade hardware. The LCD screens are another matter and frankly I'm not sure what Apples problem is here. Frankly I really think they like to kill off products due to neglect. MBA seems to be going the way of the Mac Pro, it will be neglected until sales suck so bad that they have to replace it with something different. In the case of the MBA, the lack of improvement is on a rather hot selling product which is perplexing to say the least. I don't completely disagree with you but the reality is that Apple has little to gain from recent Intel processors except for improved GPUs. In some cases Intel never came through until it was too late with improved processors. This is pretty much the case with the 15" MBP. This isn't really a mystery either as one can easily look up Inteks actual shipping dates fir various processors. In a nut shell whining about new processors in Mac is largely an effort in casting bull shit!!
  • Reply 42 of 53
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    gatorguy said:
    wizard69 said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    there is a difference between Apple squeezing one of its suppliers for cheaper prices than a company replacing its ENTIRE WORKFORCE with machines.
    If the only way for that supplier to meet Apple's demands and get/retain their business is to aggressively control costs by firing their human workers and replacing them with robotics would you then have a problem with it? Do you think Apple would care if machines replaced those humans? Do you think they should care? 
    This is easy! Most of thE stuff, literally that vast majority of the stuff we buy these days, wouldn't even be affordable without automation. Modern semiconductor manufacturing demands automation and even things like clothing manufacturing demands automation to keep prices affordable. It is our ability as humans to mass produce stuff that has allowed us to grow population wise even as we strain the environment around us.

     This by the way doesn't mean that layoff due to automation are a pretty thing.    It isn't but we as a community must keep moving forward with automation if we expect to sustain population growth.   
    Agreed. We may not like it and no doubt some of us (or our extended families) may be hurt by it in the short term, but business marches on. Overall business and the employment opportunities it offers have continually expanded for the most part, tho the \types of employment have certainly changed. 
    Exactly!

    Automation is only a problem if the economy stops growing and new jobs stop popping up.   If one is flexible there is work to be had.   If a person has convinced themselves that the only thing they can do in life is to bolt on car wheels then they will have problems.  
  • Reply 43 of 53
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 586member
    dougd said:
    There's no end to Apple greed
    You sound incredibly naive.  Or ignorant.  Or both.
  • Reply 44 of 53
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 586member
    gatorguy said:
    I notice you aren't complaining about Apple perhaps "squeezing suppliers" to the point they see little profit if they comply just so that Apple themselves can become even richer. You displayed a different attitude yesterday about Uber squeezing their suppliers (the drivers) so that Uber could increase their margins. Yesterday you called it greed. What is it today?  (not that I agreed with your views yesterday to begin with)

    Why should someone complain about something Apple is doing that EVERY SINGLE MANUFACTURER in the world does? That is, always negotiate for the lowest possible prices on components.
    Didn't you hear the news?  Apple is the only corporation in the known universe that's interested in maximizing profits. Every other corporation not named Apple is in business for the good of mankind.
    edited August 2016
  • Reply 45 of 53
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sog35 said:
    schlack said:
    hoping apple releases iPhones in a rainbow of colors this time around...gotta do something to get people to upgrade to a device that largely looks the same as their existing device. /notsarcasm
    why does the cosmetic look of a tool matter? does your DVD player look widely different from one replacement to the next? why not? because thats the most useful form factor and that determines its general look. tools need to do jobs, not change appearance so children can be amused by them annually.
    if you think the iPhone is simply a tool like a power drill then you don't understand the iPhone business at all
    This is where you will get a lot of disagreement. IPhone is a tool, the modern day equivalent of a pocket watch really. As such functionality out weighs everything else. Nobody using the iPhone as a tool really cares what it looks like. The great success of the SE highlights this as that design is very old. It is all about functionality at the right price.

     Remember when buying a modern cell phone you are effectively buying a glass panel that delivers a view for you. Everything else in that cell phone is extra. This is why going thin was so important for Apple.

     Look at it this way, what will you think of an iPhone that gets implanted in your head? There would be nothing to see as it would be in your skull with a direct neural link. Sounds unlikely? Maybe, however as Apple drives towards more medical and health related functionality an embedded cell phone type device actually makes a lot of sense. Sure the tech is a ways off but I one day expect to see artificial eyes as our understanding of the brain increases. From there an embedded cell phone isn't far off.

    So if you can't see it does design matter?   Now consider this most people implant their cell phones in some sort of case.   All you really see is the pane of glass.   IN THE END DESIGN DOESNT MATTER,!!   The only important thing is functionality at a reasonable price.   This will hold until something dramatically different happens, possibly a folding iPhone.  Even then the market will drive functionality and the folding capability will only be a novelty for a moments time.  

    Neleive this isn't so?   Well look at the desktop and laptop computer market.  Design has largely been relegated to niche marketing, everything else is me too generic designs.  Why?   Because functionality is the only important thing when it comes to a computer.  Apple success with the Macs has had little to do with design but rather with Mac OS and the UNIX underpinnings that supports all of Mac OS.  In fact every time they have come out with a product that prefers design over functionality with the associated high costs, the machine has been a miserable failure.  
  • Reply 46 of 53
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    sog35 said:
    wizard69 said:
    Because a design change doesn't matter. The only thing that is important in this market is price which Cook already alluded to as a problem for Apple. As it is now, with Apples candy bar profile, people don't have a choice as ALL cell phones these days look alike. There is little Apple can do with the current design that would set it apart from the entire field of smart phones. To manage something different they will need a folding design or something else that sets the product apart. It is sort of like buying LCD screens (TV or computer), they have gotten so thin that the only thing that really matters anymore is the picture quality and software features. Let face it you can't put a lot of design into a glass panel that is a few mm thick. People begin to value other things when all the products available to them look alike.
    come on dude. Apple could have made a different design for iPhone7 instead of bringing out the same case THREE YEARS IN A ROW

    Look at the Samsung S7. Its design is very different from the iPhone. Smaller bezels, curved glass, ect. The Sony, LG, HTC, and Motorolla phones also have different designs - curved backs, smaller bezels, ect.

    Don't tell me Apple does not have enough money to do a redesign every 2 years when companies like Samsung, LG, Sony, ect which make a fraction of the profit of Apple can. Even pathetic companies like Xiaomi and WTFCHina company makes new designs every two years minimum.

    The problem is it isn't the same "design" all it will have if the leaks are correct is a slightly similar case. The point is the case doesn't matter. What will or won't sell the new iPhone is features. Frankly this has always been the case, as Apple has improved features and capabilities iPhone sales have exploded. The increase in consumer acceptance has had absolutely nothing to do with the look of the case. The case being thinner though is a big selling point because basically you are selling a slab of glass. The things that matter to people are system performance, the camera and other features that have driven iPhone sales for many years now. The problem App,e has is that performance is no longer as big of a selling pint as it once was. We are getting near laptop performance out of cell phones now, in some cases better than laptop performance. This will be even more so with the coming SOC so Apple will have to start highlighting other bits of functionality to keep people interested. Short term this means the camera systems most likely. The day will come though when the cameras are good enough for most people, at that time Apple will have to focus on other features/functionality to drive sales. Eventually pocketable cell phones become a commodity with pricing to match.
  • Reply 47 of 53
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    dougd said:
    There's no end to Apple greed
    Huh? WTF comment is that. IF they don't want contract they can just take a hike.
    Nobody's forcing them to go broke on a deal.
  • Reply 48 of 53
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    MacBAir said:
    sog35 said:
    any kind of redesign would have been nice. Even if it was worse than the 6 design at least it would look different and people would be able to tell that its a new iPhone.

    Now if you buy an iPhone7, people won't even be able to tell it isn't a 3 year old phone. And yes, stupid and vain things like that matter.

    The only explanation is that next's years phone will be a massive change. And Apple does not want to use a new shell for only one year (iPhone7). So they use the same shell for 3 years and then come out with a new shell next year.  IMO, that is a massive risk in the short term, but they should recover with iPhone8.

    But this is the same type of slow action that Apple showed when they did bring out a bigger iPhone along with the iPhone5s.  That allowed Samsung to get a massive foothold in the market. Looks like Apple is making the same mistake again with not updating the design for THREE YEARS. UGH.
    While I'm certain that it might matter for a minority, that's not the issue at hand.

    The issue at hand is keep trying to squeeze as much money per device as they can, at all costs. Technology be damned. Growth be damned. Being years behind on screen and camera tech be damned. Being years behind on useful features like waterproofing and fast charging be damned.

    Samsung seems to have no problem into selling a product with much higher base storage, superior screen on every metric, great design, great battery life and fast charging, waterproofing, superior camera on every metric... And still profit like madman from it.

    Only Apple. Only Apple needs to keep artificially destroying the experience (8 out of 10 iPhone users with 16 GB...) in order to squeeze as much as they can.
    And here they are, trying to squeeze even more from the suppliers instead of using that amount of money to provide a superior product.

    What will happen is that their greed will put them at the mercy of suppliers, instead of their success putting suppliers at their mercy. Yearly profits dropping like a stone should be enough... should.
    funny how most of your Samsung facts are pure bullshit. The battery don't really last longer, the screen are marginally better and seemingly them scratch easier.
    Android + Wizshit take 10G so off course you need more than 16G, in their phone, 16G is unusable in their phone.
    BTW, their storage is SLOWER, much slower.
    Fast Encryption only recently implemented.in Samsung phones.
    Apple has the toughest phone since it uses AL 7000
    No 3D touch, Touch ID still better than Samsung's implementation.
    etc etc etc.

    Spare me your crap.
    [Deleted User]
  • Reply 49 of 53
    foggyhill said:
    MacBAir said:
    While I'm certain that it might matter for a minority, that's not the issue at hand.

    The issue at hand is keep trying to squeeze as much money per device as they can, at all costs. Technology be damned. Growth be damned. Being years behind on screen and camera tech be damned. Being years behind on useful features like waterproofing and fast charging be damned.

    Samsung seems to have no problem into selling a product with much higher base storage, superior screen on every metric, great design, great battery life and fast charging, waterproofing, superior camera on every metric... And still profit like madman from it.

    Only Apple. Only Apple needs to keep artificially destroying the experience (8 out of 10 iPhone users with 16 GB...) in order to squeeze as much as they can.
    And here they are, trying to squeeze even more from the suppliers instead of using that amount of money to provide a superior product.

    What will happen is that their greed will put them at the mercy of suppliers, instead of their success putting suppliers at their mercy. Yearly profits dropping like a stone should be enough... should.
    funny how most of your Samsung facts are pure bullshit. The battery don't really last longer, the screen are marginally better and seemingly them scratch easier.
    Android + Wizshit take 10G so off course you need more than 16G, in their phone, 16G is unusable in their phone.
    BTW, their storage is SLOWER, much slower.
    Fast Encryption only recently implemented.in Samsung phones.
    Apple has the toughest phone since it uses AL 7000
    No 3D touch, Touch ID still better than Samsung's implementation.
    etc etc etc.

    Spare me your crap.
    Yes, the iPhone has some advantages. But that doesn't change the fact that, for example, comparing the s7 edge Vs iPhone:
    - The s7 edge screen is better on every single metric;
    - The camera is better on every single metric;
    - The battery life lasts much longer. Check Anandtech's review.
    - Much more base storage;
    - By all accounts, better design;
    - Better multitasking (multi window, useful software features, more RAM)
    - Useful features like waterproofing;
    - Knox. You know, the software used by intelligence agencies and governments. 

    Is that ok with you? To me it isn't. I can't understand how Samsung has that screen and camera module, while Apple has the weakest, cheapest, lowest quality camera module of any flagship. Camera modules are outsourced too, and Apple processing software is better... So it's all about the bean counters.
  • Reply 50 of 53
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,048member
    MacBAir said:

    So, let me get this straight...

    You are dismissing the fact that Apple's problems are that they sell inferior products, their sales on every hardware product are slumping YoY, their net profits are slumping YoY, because Apple makes more money than Samsung Mobile for now?

    Yeah, but Samsung Mobile is growing fast. Samsung Electronics is also growing fast and 2 or 3 quarters away to surpass Apple in net profit. And everything is being done with offering superior products without artificial limitations that destroy the experience. We are this close to say that Samsung Electronics is more profitable then Apple. If nothing changes and Apple keeps skimping on the user experience, Samsung will offer better products, sell more, make more money... And Apple's market share will keep going down, together with their products.

    And then, what? What will happen when devs see iOS as a afterthought because sales keep dropping YoY, as they are? What are they to do when Apple artificially destroys the experience of 9 out of 10 users and ignores 90% of the market that can't justify an iPhone because a cheaper Android is more than good enough for most tasks? Or do you also think that Android is crap? (that would say a lot)

    I'm not even convinced that sales are dropping mainly because devices are lasting longer. Every Mac (me included) and iOS user I know is frustrated. The vast majority just spent 750 € on a friggin smartphone with 16 GB of storage. It's full after one week! What experience is that? It's their fault that they didn't want to spend 850€ on a device that provides a decent, minimally modern experience? Are they to blame because they thought that they wouldn't have to deal with crap like that on a 750 € device?

    Do you really think that the majority of people buying 32 GB and Less iOS devices (8 out of 10? 9 out of 10?) will buy an iPhone, next? No. It's not what is happening. Samsung Mobile's exponencial growth with the s7 and now note7 shows that people are fed up with that crap.

    We are all fed up with pathetic low storage, RAM, TN panels, 5400 rpm hard drives, not updating macs in years, dropping all decent and pro software... FED UP.

    At this point, I hope that all of Apple's talented engineers, that are being suffocated because of the bean counters, go somewhere else, like they have been doing lately.
    I agree that its ridiculous that Apple hasn't updated the BackBook Pro to at least a Broadwell or Skylake Processor by now.    Microsoft was able to update the Surface Pro last year with SkyLake.   Unfortunately not everyone will be able to wait for when they finally release the updated MB Pro.   I was initially interested in waiting for the Pro because of the rumored touchId.   Not sure if I will be interested in it with the revised Keyboard.   I use Windows 7 running in fusion on my machines for my job.   Not sure if I can give up the actual Function keys.    Even if released in October, the OLED menu on the Keyboard involves software changes to the MacOS which will inevitably have bugs that will take 6 months to work out.(i'm wouldn't be surprised it the price of the MacBook Pro went up like the iPad Pro)

    Its another big disappointment that Apple still sells hard drives.    I remember Apple as leading the push to SSD.    What gives.    Its like they want to sell the Oldsmobile of computers.

    Unless there is some great unrumored feature in the iPhone 7 I think this could be a very disappointing year for sales.      While I still see the basic iOS as better operating system I would rather use Google Maps and google now.   (SIRI sucks beyond belief).   I tend to think that both the SE  and iPhone 6S will outsell the iPhone 7 because they removed the headphone jack.

    And you are right.   Tim Cook is just a bean counter so I wonder where vision for the phone comes from now.   Just Jony eve's thin is better design.
  • Reply 51 of 53
    fracfrac Posts: 480member
    gatorguy said:
    frac said:
    Bit disingenuous of you as you know very well that the vast majority of business does not operate on a 'personal' level, nor can it and remain price competitive, nor should it when your competitive existence is at stake. Business is unambiguously impersonal by design and necessity. 
    Welcome to the march of industrial progress, uninhibited by what you or I or any moral argument, might have to say.
    You're confused as to who is vociferously complaining about workers being replaced by robots. Sog35 feels Uber is wrong to look into doing so. I've been asking him why?
    It's easy to get confused with all the blather so my apologies, I wasn't sure of the angle you were arguing and Sog is on my ignore list permanently so I missed your irony amongst the pedantic bit..
  • Reply 52 of 53
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:

    Apple has never stated they will replace their entire workforce with robots.
    Foxconn's employee isn't Apple employees. Bringing them up is irrelevant.
    So then I'll ask you again:
    A. If the only way for that supplier to meet Apple's demands and get/retain their business is to aggressively control costs by firing their human workers and replacing them with robotics do YOU then have a problem with it? (yes it is happening)
    B. Do you think Apple would care if machines replaced those humans?
    C. Do you think Apple should care? 
    ...and a new one
    D. Do you think Uber's suppliers, the drivers (they aren't Uber's employees), should acquiesce and accept lower profits to try and avoid being replaced by machinery? 
    Look, Uber popped up out of nowhere a few years ago. They almost immediately put cab companies out of business (no overhead: vehicle storage, upkeep, gas, insurance, etc.). I doubt you were crying then.
    They staffed from bored people that owned newer model cars, had no criminal record, & a good driving record.
    Lol, you act like their staff is a group of individuals with highly specialized training, that spent years prepping for this "career", & have zero other options! It's laughable. How, pray tell, did they afford the newer model cars & insurance prior to Uber?? 
    Nobody cares about a brief blip in time between the old guard (cabs) & the new guard (self-driving fleets), where unskilled unemployed people could make some quick cash... it's inconsequential. They should enjoy it now & reap what they can- but anyone pinning their entire 30 year career plan on "I'll be a driver for Uber until the day I retire" in 2016, is ridiculously myopic.
    with regards to automation in factories: there will ALWAYS be a need for many, many, many humans in those factories. Some Foxconn factories employ 400,000 workers! Would I act all "chicken little" & claim that the sky is falling if they could set up their next megafactory to employ only 300,000 workers, running more sophisticated machinery? No. No, I would not. I tend to not be so dramatic.
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