Let's talk about monitors for the Mac Pro... Sigh. Had to buy an LG. My first non-apple monitor. It's doing the job but it's just not at the same design and build quality level as Apple's products.
yes I miss the days when you could fully kit out a properly matching set of Apple gear and gloatingly gaze at its awesomeness. It is almost like Apple these days has nobody at the top looking at the big picture.
or, they are and we're just ignorant to the plan. I'm betting the latter, since we don't, you know, work there.
It is almost like Apple these days has nobody at the top looking at the big picture.
It's more accurate to say you're looking at a very small corner of Apple's very big picture, and you can't see that as your focus is different from theirs, which is closer to the horizon than yours.
Who knows what Apple has planned? Yes, making Macs and MacBooks more of a commodity than a professional tool is disheartening to a lot of us. But early on it was clear that Apple's mission was to bring personal computing to "the rest of us". Some of us aren't them. Pity.
Whether Apple has something up it's sleeve for Macs and MacBooks, or just another style project- it's wait and see. I have to wonder how many people who have complained about being disenfranchised pro users have regularly written to Tim about their concerns.
I hope all 4 ports will be full capacity Thunderbolt 3 ports! I guess there might be a total bandwidth limit to what the portable version of Kaby Lake can actually pull off. 40Gb x 4.. is that within the specs? Would be awesome.
4 Thunderbolt 3 ports would require 2 separate Alpine Ridge I/O chips; most laptops have only 2 Thunderbolt ports because that is all the Thunderbolt 3 chip supports.
There could be 2 Type-C connectors that are charging/USB only, leaving the other 2 for be all inclusive Thunderbolt/USB/display etc.
One thing of note that will make things confusing. The only thing guaranteed by a Type-C connector is USB 2.0 performance and power. Anything else is optional: - USB 3.1 gen1 (essentially USB 3.0 spec) - USB 3.1 gen2 (the 10Gbps flavour) - DisplayPort - Power Delivery for charging (note, there are several flavors of this, too) - Thunderbolt 3
I expect "it just works" will be hard to achieve, as simply having a Type-C connector, there is no guarantee of the capabilities without some intelligent labeling. I know that Intel has required certain superset of capabilities if the Thunderbolt logo is used on the connector.
You misunderstand me. There are many reasons why I'm displeased. I said I liked him at one time, but Apple is getting away from what made them great. Media. I've used Mac OS since 7.1, and yes I have seen the advancements. But the machines have not advanced in ways I think they should. Each year we loose another way to upgrade them. It use to be you could upgrade the ram in your MacBook, now you can't. I am still using my 2011 MacBook Pro 15 because I could upgrade it and keep it going. It's not just the SD card, it's every Mac machine.
The 5k iMac is impressive until you really hit it with multiple videos while editing, then it starts to take a hit. Many people complain that they are downgrading when moving to those machines because of how much longer it takes to complete the same FCPX tasks. Otherwise I would have bought one by now. I'm hoping new graphics cards will remedy these problems.
The '13 Mac Pro has heating problems and Apple hasn't fixed them since 2013. You can't upgrade the graphics cards. And the 2012 Mac Pro's are running at the same speed as the 2013's, and you can upgrade the 2010's to the same specs, and upgrade the graphics cards. Since the garbage can Mac Pro many professionals have left MacOS because they need more. Until Apple allows for the ability to natively add graphics cards and other data intensive cards through whatever means they deem worthy more will continue to leave. I don't want that to happen, but like many I don't think it's going to stop any time soon. One of the arguments that people have brought up against the '13 Mac Pro is that its price hasn't changed in 3 years. Before they would adjust the price to reflect the aging tech. Not now. 3 year old cpu's and gpu's and it's still the same price it was upon release.
I use my MacBook Pro every day also. Mainly for photography and light video work. The SD card slot and thunderbolt ports are the only ports I use on my MBP. I'm excited for thunderbolt 3. The SD card slot gets used multiple times a day, and is necessary to my work. I've had usb readers go bad and have fried usb ports before. I'd prefer to have it as a part of my logic board for that reason.
I liked the upgradability of Apple products, and I find it foolish to upgrade to a new computer every year, I want my products to last and adjust with me through the years. That's why I've bought Apple for years.
If I don't speak up and give my opinions, lay down, and watch these products become unusable for my work I will be forced to look elsewhere like others are.
Tim Cook has stopped listening to professionals in the video and media market. Many have moved to the HP Z series, others like my self are making their older Aluminum Mac Pro's last longer by upgrading, hoping something better will come out. I've read that Apple believes they made a mistake with the '13 Mac Pro and are making sure the next one is right. I pray they do get it right.
And really, I can't complain about Job's now, he's gone, and so to Mr. Cook I send my concerns. When he took over he gave me high hopes, now I feel let down. It appears he's more concerned with the runway and making Apple products thinner than utilitarian.
I want to upgrade, but why? When in many ways newer machines are a step backwards and don't give me any increase in my productivity.
wait...youre a pro user, but you like Apple gear and iMacs for their upgradability? um, that's never been a huge selling point on Apple gear, since the Mac. on iMacs and MacBooks the only thing you can really upgrade is the RAM (on old machines you could add SSD but there's no reason to now if you get SSD in the box) which I max out on day one since I'm a pro and this is my tool for making money. not understanding why you wouldn't also? I have a maxed out 2011 iMac, it still serves as my primary desktop for dev, which is Xcode, VMware, VS.Net, SQL Server, etc. a little different than video editing, I admit. but I'm not getting why you wouldn't load up your money-making tool, amortize it, and upgrade machines a few years (or more) later. how could a newer machine perform slower than your old machine?
Wow this is getting long, I max out my ram immediately, except on my Mac Pro, I can't justify the cost when they are released. I do use aftermarket Crucial ram instead of paying the Apple premium. The graphics cards is my main concern on a new Mac Pro, I can stomach needing to purchase an external raid array but don't like it. I talked about every model because I have considered each to replace my aging Mac Pro. I'm sorry I'm not Hollywood, but I don't want to make a bad investment. Today it feels like that would be very easy to do.
You misunderstand me. There are many reasons why I'm displeased. I said I liked him at one time, but Apple is getting away from what made them great. Media. I've used Mac OS since 7.1, and yes I have seen the advancements. But the machines have not advanced in ways I think they should. Each year we loose another way to upgrade them. It use to be you could upgrade the ram in your MacBook, now you can't. I am still using my 2011 MacBook Pro 15 because I could upgrade it and keep it going. It's not just the SD card, it's every Mac machine.
The 5k iMac is impressive until you really hit it with multiple videos while editing, then it starts to take a hit. Many people complain that they are downgrading when moving to those machines because of how much longer it takes to complete the same FCPX tasks. Otherwise I would have bought one by now. I'm hoping new graphics cards will remedy these problems.
The '13 Mac Pro has heating problems and Apple hasn't fixed them since 2013. You can't upgrade the graphics cards. And the 2012 Mac Pro's are running at the same speed as the 2013's, and you can upgrade the 2010's to the same specs, and upgrade the graphics cards. Since the garbage can Mac Pro many professionals have left MacOS because they need more. Until Apple allows for the ability to natively add graphics cards and other data intensive cards through whatever means they deem worthy more will continue to leave. I don't want that to happen, but like many I don't think it's going to stop any time soon. One of the arguments that people have brought up against the '13 Mac Pro is that its price hasn't changed in 3 years. Before they would adjust the price to reflect the aging tech. Not now. 3 year old cpu's and gpu's and it's still the same price it was upon release.
I use my MacBook Pro every day also. Mainly for photography and light video work. The SD card slot and thunderbolt ports are the only ports I use on my MBP. I'm excited for thunderbolt 3. The SD card slot gets used multiple times a day, and is necessary to my work. I've had usb readers go bad and have fried usb ports before. I'd prefer to have it as a part of my logic board for that reason.
I liked the upgradability of Apple products, and I find it foolish to upgrade to a new computer every year, I want my products to last and adjust with me through the years. That's why I've bought Apple for years.
If I don't speak up and give my opinions, lay down, and watch these products become unusable for my work I will be forced to look elsewhere like others are.
Tim Cook has stopped listening to professionals in the video and media market. Many have moved to the HP Z series, others like my self are making their older Aluminum Mac Pro's last longer by upgrading, hoping something better will come out. I've read that Apple believes they made a mistake with the '13 Mac Pro and are making sure the next one is right. I pray they do get it right.
And really, I can't complain about Job's now, he's gone, and so to Mr. Cook I send my concerns. When he took over he gave me high hopes, now I feel let down. It appears he's more concerned with the runway and making Apple products thinner than utilitarian.
I want to upgrade, but why? When in many ways newer machines are a step backwards and don't give me any increase in my productivity.
I don't post much but I felt the need to weigh in here a bit. I have one of the new Mac Pro's from 2013 and it has been and is still flawless. Calling it a garbage can is ridiculous and unecessarily disrespectful. I've had an apple "Mac Pro" tower type computer in my life since the 90's and this newest incarnation is the best by far. Small, sleek, quiet, powerful, yes pricey of course but you do get what you pay for. I use it for audio with logic and the universal audio tools and I couldn't be happier.. now if you want to complain about a segment of the Apple product line... Let's talk about monitors for the Mac Pro... Sigh. Had to buy an LG. My first non-apple monitor. It's doing the job but it's just not at the same design and build quality level as Apple's products.
If I had to guess, I'd bet that the next MacBook Pro will have exactly two USB-C 3.1/TB3 combo ports, and that's it. No adapters, because Apple wants the third-party companies to develop native USB-C/TB3 devices. That's how standards have changed in the past, I see no reason for them to do any differently this time. Crusty old Mac guys will whine and moan as they did when the iMac came out, as they did when we switched to Intel, as they do when a new OS version drops support for their seven-year-old machines. Change is generally awkward but usually for the better, and while I'm not looking forward to (slowly) replacing my current cords, I can at least see the point and benefits of the change.
I hope all 4 ports will be full capacity Thunderbolt 3 ports! I guess there might be a total bandwidth limit to what the portable version of Kaby Lake can actually pull off. 40Gb x 4.. is that within the specs? Would be awesome.
4 Thunderbolt 3 ports would require 2 separate Alpine Ridge I/O chips; most laptops have only 2 Thunderbolt ports because that is all the Thunderbolt 3 chip supports.
There could be 2 Type-C connectors that are charging/USB only, leaving the other 2 for be all inclusive Thunderbolt/USB/display etc.
One thing of note that will make things confusing. The only thing guaranteed by a Type-C connector is USB 2.0 performance and power. Anything else is optional: - USB 3.1 gen1 (essentially USB 3.0 spec) - USB 3.1 gen2 (the 10Gbps flavour) - DisplayPort - Power Delivery for charging (note, there are several flavors of this, too) - Thunderbolt 3
I expect "it just works" will be hard to achieve, as simply having a Type-C connector, there is no guarantee of the capabilities without some intelligent labeling. I know that Intel has required certain superset of capabilities if the Thunderbolt logo is used on the connector.
Thanks for the info on the Alpine Ridge I/O chips. I worry that all the options will also be confusing to most people. Hopefully manufacturers will list the features the cables support on the packaging and online stores will list them as well. “Full USB-C compatibility” or “works with iOS #” (like how some products are advertised) won’t survive any protocol/SW updates for unsold product that sits on the shelf and leave people guessing.
If I had to guess, I'd bet that the next MacBook Pro will have exactly two USB-C 3.1/TB3 combo ports, and that's it. No adapters, because Apple wants the third-party companies to develop native USB-C/TB3 devices. That's how standards have changed in the past, I see no reason for them to do any differently this time. Crusty old Mac guys will whine and moan as they did when the iMac came out, as they did when we switched to Intel, as they do when a new OS version drops support for their seven-year-old machines. Change is generally awkward but usually for the better, and while I'm not looking forward to (slowly) replacing my current cords, I can at least see the point and benefits of the change.
I agree. While I’m not crusty, I am concerned about the removal of ports that legacy audio gear needs to function w/o an adapter. For instance, many pro audio interfaces for in field use cost thousands of dollars and used FW800 up until a few years ago, thunderbolt models were not available. So, for those who needed a FW port until new equipment is available or affordable, they’ve had to carry expensive adapters and have to worry about one more thing in the chain to fail and make sure is packed in their gear. Now as Thunderbolt gear is mainstream, the physical connection will change again, and the “dongle” (adapter) headache starts again. So, it is less a gripe and more of a legitimate concern for some, IMO. The usual comeback is “if it’s a business, they should upgrade.” but replacing thousands of dollars of gear after replacing a laptop (among many) that cost upwards of $3K isn’t always possible for smaller outfits. I’ve been in this position, and it is not fun. But at least I can appreciate the eventual net gain and after the growing pains we ended up with a better setup.
MacBook Pro: no MagSafe, one USB-C port, one TBolt port #The Real MacBook Pro: MagSafe, one USB-C port, one TBolt port, two USB3 ports, one SD card slot.
MacBook Pro: no MagSafe, one USB-C port, one TBolt port #The Real MacBook Pro: MagSafe, one USB-C port, one TBolt port, two USB3 ports, one SD card slot.
First the disclaimer, I am an executive not an IT professional. I have used Mac OS since graduate school and I am very much a fan. However, my IT manager politely told me to take the 5k iMac and my Macbook Pro 15" home. Both are only about a year old. He handed me a Surface Book Pro and set up a monitor with a docking station. I have to confess I was a little less than happy at first. After a few months now thought I find myself asking why doesn't Apple have a product like this. Yes my MPB 15 was the highest end version at the time and has a better graphics card but geez, touch screen, a stylus that is better than the pencil. I just don't get it. I use to laugh at Windows diehards as being behind the curve but just things like the sustained absence of a touch screen I don't understand.
As I read what's coming in the new MPB's I just don't hear anything that's just awesome. Ok new ports, but I don't hear touchscreen, no 1-2 configuration like the Surface Book. Truthfully I do use my iPad pro a lot less now since I can just use the top half of the Surface Pro is I need a table in a meeting. If you told me 10 years ago that my go to device would be a Windows product, I would have laughed at you but today... not so much. Yes I like the convenience of just being about to flick through pages of a document on a laptop just as if I'm on a tablet either Windows or Apple.
Not trying to start a thread war and no doubt many of you no way more about each OS than I do but I think I'm not that different from the majority of folks using any OS. Most professionals I interact with don't actually need a bleeding edge system and are doing little more that with their devices beyond Office applications, Internet browsing and in my field EMR and practice management programs.
a stylus that is better than the pencil. I just don't get it.
What criteria are you basing your review? Everything I've seen puts Apple Pencil far ahead of the Surface Pen in overall usability and sensitivity, especially with the new Surface models which seem to have lessened the sensitivity of the pen over earlier models.
Given the kabylake timetable, an MBA ASAP with u series kabylake chips so it can have full thunderbolt 3 performance would be highly desirable, letting MBP be upgraded early next year when chips for them become available.
But no, consumer level must buy more expensive and m series powered rMB.
never mind, dell XPS will have full TB3 well before Christmas.
The Core m Kaby Lake chips will not support TB3 natively. A separate controller is still needed. So the MacBook probably won't get TB3 until 2018.
It's more accurate to say you're looking at a very small corner of Apple's very big picture, and you can't see that as your focus is different from theirs, which is closer to the horizon than yours.
Who knows what Apple has planned? Yes, making Macs and MacBooks more of a commodity than a professional tool is disheartening to a lot of us. But early on it was clear that Apple's mission was to bring personal computing to "the rest of us". Some of us aren't them. Pity.
Whether Apple has something up it's sleeve for Macs and MacBooks, or just another style project- it's wait and see. I have to wonder how many people who have complained about being disenfranchised pro users have regularly written to Tim about their concerns.
I have and continue to do so.
It wasn't so much a professional vs consumer perspective. It was in the context of an up to date monitor. You could have an appliance like laptop and an above market average priced monitor, and people will buy the matching product. This would only work of course while the monitor was desirable in comparison to the competition.
Given the kabylake timetable, an MBA ASAP with u series kabylake chips so it can have full thunderbolt 3 performance would be highly desirable, letting MBP be upgraded early next year when chips for them become available.
But no, consumer level must buy more expensive and m series powered rMB.
never mind, dell XPS will have full TB3 well before Christmas.
The Core m Kaby Lake chips will not support TB3 natively. A separate controller is still needed. So the MacBook probably won't get TB3 until 2018.
Best thing for Apple would be to go back to making their own chipsets like they did prior to Intel. Drop all the legacy support that has never been legacy to Apple, drop legacy support to SATA given Apple isn't using that either these days. They already build support for most interfaces in to the Aseries chips anyway , so they have the know how. The rest they can buy and attach as PCIe.
The Core m Kaby Lake chips will not support TB3 natively. A separate controller is still needed. So the MacBook probably won't get TB3 until 2018.
Best thing for Apple would be to go back to making their own chipsets like they did prior to Intel. Drop all the legacy support that has never been legacy to Apple, drop legacy support to SATA given Apple isn't using that either these days. They already build support for most interfaces in to the Aseries chips anyway , so they have the know how. The rest they can buy and attach as PCIe.
That would mean no Thunderbolt, unless Apple can Intel to offer them a special license or if Intel's new plan to make ARM chips in their foundries includes a license for Thunderbolt.
But Apple doesn't need Thunderbolt to run high speed data and multiple 4K/2880p@60Hz displays on their chipset—they only need to include USB 3.1 and DisplayPort 1.3 (or higher) with USB-C ports, all of which are licensable.
I am happy using my Mac with the Software Advancements. At some point, it may become not as useful when I cannot buy peripherals that it will support. The Peripherals are not to that point yet. USB 3 Drives are so inexpensive that I can use them almost like a DVD, except DVD's are almost useless, just as Disk Drives are useless. Technology will at some point advance to the point that Apple does not put some backward compatible protocol in a Mac. I like the new Lower Power Bluetooth and the new Video capabilities that are coming into play. Right now I get by just fine. with what I have: Low cost working technology. My Mac may not be as fast as I want, but it is faster than 99% of the computers that other people have around me. Apple has done a good job of not obsoleting their existing products as the OS Advances - Unfortunately for them, Microsoft Cannot Say the Same Thing. Lets not get into a debate re this. Just accept it and when the New Macs come out, if you want one, buy it. Same for a Phone, iPad, Watch, etc. Hardware can always be better, but if the software obsoletes it, things are not great.
Comments
or, they are and we're just ignorant to the plan. I'm betting the latter, since we don't, you know, work there.
Who knows what Apple has planned? Yes, making Macs and MacBooks more of a commodity than a professional tool is disheartening to a lot of us. But early on it was clear that Apple's mission was to bring personal computing to "the rest of us". Some of us aren't them. Pity.
Whether Apple has something up it's sleeve for Macs and MacBooks, or just another style project- it's wait and see. I have to wonder how many people who have complained about being disenfranchised pro users have regularly written to Tim about their concerns.
I have and continue to do so.
There could be 2 Type-C connectors that are charging/USB only, leaving the other 2 for be all inclusive Thunderbolt/USB/display etc.
One thing of note that will make things confusing. The only thing guaranteed by a Type-C connector is USB 2.0 performance and power. Anything else is optional:
- USB 3.1 gen1 (essentially USB 3.0 spec)
- USB 3.1 gen2 (the 10Gbps flavour)
- DisplayPort
- Power Delivery for charging (note, there are several flavors of this, too)
- Thunderbolt 3
I expect "it just works" will be hard to achieve, as simply having a Type-C connector, there is no guarantee of the capabilities without some intelligent labeling. I know that Intel has required certain superset of capabilities if the Thunderbolt logo is used on the connector.
I agree. While I’m not crusty, I am concerned about the removal of ports that legacy audio gear needs to function w/o an adapter. For instance, many pro audio interfaces for in field use cost thousands of dollars and used FW800 up until a few years ago, thunderbolt models were not available. So, for those who needed a FW port until new equipment is available or affordable, they’ve had to carry expensive adapters and have to worry about one more thing in the chain to fail and make sure is packed in their gear. Now as Thunderbolt gear is mainstream, the physical connection will change again, and the “dongle” (adapter) headache starts again. So, it is less a gripe and more of a legitimate concern for some, IMO. The usual comeback is “if it’s a business, they should upgrade.” but replacing thousands of dollars of gear after replacing a laptop (among many) that cost upwards of $3K isn’t always possible for smaller outfits. I’ve been in this position, and it is not fun. But at least I can appreciate the eventual net gain and after the growing pains we ended up with a better setup.
MacBook Pro: no MagSafe, one USB-C port, one TBolt port
#The Real MacBook Pro: MagSafe, one USB-C port, one TBolt port, two USB3 ports, one SD card slot.
As I read what's coming in the new MPB's I just don't hear anything that's just awesome. Ok new ports, but I don't hear touchscreen, no 1-2 configuration like the Surface Book. Truthfully I do use my iPad pro a lot less now since I can just use the top half of the Surface Pro is I need a table in a meeting. If you told me 10 years ago that my go to device would be a Windows product, I would have laughed at you but today... not so much. Yes I like the convenience of just being about to flick through pages of a document on a laptop just as if I'm on a tablet either Windows or Apple.
Not trying to start a thread war and no doubt many of you no way more about each OS than I do but I think I'm not that different from the majority of folks using any OS. Most professionals I interact with don't actually need a bleeding edge system and are doing little more that with their devices beyond Office applications, Internet browsing and in my field EMR and practice management programs.
Thoughts?
The Core m Kaby Lake chips will not support TB3 natively. A separate controller is still needed. So the MacBook probably won't get TB3 until 2018.
Drop all the legacy support that has never been legacy to Apple, drop legacy support to SATA given Apple isn't using that either these days. They already build support for most interfaces in to the Aseries chips anyway , so they have the know how. The rest they can buy and attach as PCIe.
But Apple doesn't need Thunderbolt to run high speed data and multiple 4K/2880p@60Hz displays on their chipset—they only need to include USB 3.1 and DisplayPort 1.3 (or higher) with USB-C ports, all of which are licensable.