Apple defends decision to ditch 3.5mm jack, says AirPods development began years ago

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Comments

  • Reply 121 of 140
    matt_smatt_s Posts: 299member
    There's nothing dead about 3.5mm.

  • Reply 122 of 140
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member

    Dongle hell. Moving DAC into a dongle, shocking
    It is not. But moving DAC right where your ear is will give you a better sound quality by not transmitting that analogue signal through wires. The shorter the path, the better it is.
    There would be no noticeable difference whatsoever.
    edited September 2016 singularity
  • Reply 123 of 140
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    There's one thing that people aren't taking into consideration.

    Analogue technology requires more power than digital technology. By removing the analogue ports you make everything inside the phone full digital. No conversions meaning no power loss and therefore longer battery life.

    Admittedly you move the problem to the analogue adapter but if you use the Lightning or AirPods then you don't have the power use problem.
    If you use the adapter there is no power saving for the phone battery.  If you use BT there is an increase in power usage.
  • Reply 124 of 140
    Wow apparently Samsung had already made similar wireless ear buds already. Never heard of them. And of course they sucked. But surprisingly are way more expensive!! They're freakin $199. Fuck. Have nowhere near the same functionality. 1.5 hours of Bluetooth music use. 

    Anytime someone tries to tell you Airpods are too stupid expensive, should be cheaper, only 5 hours playback even with 24 hours of carrying case charge with 15min charge giving you 3 hours use, etc. Show them the shit competition for 25% higher cost.


    - Samsung's Gear Icon X cord-free earbuds will go on sale in the US on August 15. 
    - Battery life is estimated at about three hours on its own as a fitness tracker and music player, or an hour and a half when paired and streaming from a phone.
    - At launch, the headphones will work with most Android phones (running at least Android 4.4 and with 1.5GB or more of RAM), but they will not work with iOS devices.
    - Can get hot for your ears. Unstable software. Poor audio quality for music. Erratic charging.

    Once again. Sammy with the bragging rights of first-to-market yet with immature technology (or what other ppl call innovation and being light years ahead of Apple = fuck off).

    Read the sources if you want:
    https://www.androidpit.com/samsung-gear-iconx-review
    http://www.cnet.com/news/airpods-schmairpods-samsung-reminds-world-it-made-wireless-earbuds-first/
    http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/2/11841388/samsung-gear-iconx-wireless-earbuds-fitness-tracking-hands-on
  • Reply 125 of 140
    Teh Gerg said:
    I have no problem with Apple's continued move toward wireless. My problem is that all I've heard is that the wireless airpods sound just like the current earpods. If they don't sound any better than that, they're damn sure not worth nearly $160.
    I have a pair of Jaybird X2's and AfterShoz Titanium bone conduction BT headsets. Love them both and they each cost more than the Airpods (bought before sale prices). I can't make an informed decision on the Airpods until I hear some reviews on them. I love the feel of Apple Earpods and the sound of them, so if sound is the same or better, I'll get them. That pairing convenience is just too hard to pass on. ;)
  • Reply 126 of 140
    xmhillx said:
    Wow apparently Samsung had already made similar wireless ear buds already. Never heard of them. And of course they sucked. But surprisingly are way more expensive!! They're freakin $199. Fuck. Have nowhere near the same functionality. 1.5 hours of Bluetooth music use. 

    Anytime someone tries to tell you Airpods are too stupid expensive, should be cheaper, only 5 hours playback even with 24 hours of carrying case charge with 15min charge giving you 3 hours use, etc. Show them the shit competition for 25% higher cost.

    Yeah, I was reading reviews on them and, for the price, they are a horrible buy.
    xmhillx
  • Reply 127 of 140
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    xmhillx said:
    Wow apparently Samsung had already made similar wireless ear buds already. Never heard of them. And of course they sucked. But surprisingly are way more expensive!! They're freakin $199. Fuck. Have nowhere near the same functionality. 1.5 hours of Bluetooth music use. 

    Anytime someone tries to tell you Airpods are too stupid expensive, should be cheaper, only 5 hours playback even with 24 hours of carrying case charge with 15min charge giving you 3 hours use, etc. Show them the shit competition for 25% higher cost.


    - Samsung's Gear Icon X cord-free earbuds will go on sale in the US on August 15. 
    - Battery life is estimated at about three hours on its own as a fitness tracker and music player, or an hour and a half when paired and streaming from a phone.
    - At launch, the headphones will work with most Android phones (running at least Android 4.4 and with 1.5GB or more of RAM), but they will not work with iOS devices.
    - Can get hot for your ears. Unstable software. Poor audio quality for music. Erratic charging.

    Once again. Sammy with the bragging rights of first-to-market yet with immature technology (or what other ppl call innovation and being light years ahead of Apple = fuck off).

    Read the sources if you want:
    https://www.androidpit.com/samsung-gear-iconx-review
    http://www.cnet.com/news/airpods-schmairpods-samsung-reminds-world-it-made-wireless-earbuds-first/
    http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/2/11841388/samsung-gear-iconx-wireless-earbuds-fitness-tracking-hands-on
    Nowhere near the functionality?  That isn't what their specs imply:

    Fitness tracker
    Without the need for a phone, Gear IconX has you covered. Whether you're walking or running, it's smart enough to track your activity and give updates on essential data from speed, distance and duration to heart rate and calories burnt via a dedicated voice guide.
    *Heart rate monitor: intended for fitness purposes, and not intended to diagnose any disease or condition, nor mitigate, prevent, treat or cure any disease.

    Track your stats
    Run with the Gear IconX in-ear voice guide to reach your vigorous-intensity zone. Recorded by real human beings in 15 different languages, motivation just got personal. By syncing with your smartphone after workouts, you can check your stats and monitor progress on the S Health app.

    Bring your songs
    Not only is Gear IconX a highly functional fitness tracker, it's possibly the smallest music player out there, meaning these earbuds are all you need to go running. With 4GB of internal memory that holds up to 1,000 tracks, you'll run out of breath before you run out of songs to power your workout. Another way to keep the beat going is via Bluetooth streaming, so you're never left stranded without those training motivation songs.
    *The number of tracks cannot exceed 1,000 regardless of total file size.
    *Usable memory is 3.5GB.

    And their endurance is more like 3hrs when not paired with a phone.  It's not surprising they are more expensive than the earpods, they are a fitness tracker, media player and bluetooth earbuds all rolled into one.

    Nice attempt at FUD.


    singularitypoppy12
  • Reply 128 of 140
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  • Reply 129 of 140
    Had to look up FUD. Fear, uncertainty, and doubt to disadvantage a competitor.

    I guess I'm "making stuff up" for the sake of fear and doubt and uncertainty. You mistake that for facts. And in this case, user reviews. 
    Youd have a point if my post was baseless and unsubstantiated, then you could argue FUD. I pointed out facts. Sorry try again.

    It's true. On paper they are fitness tracker, MP3 player, and earbuds rolled into one. And you pay $200. If that appeals to you, what more can I say. More people buy separate devices to achieve those things and keep them separate while having more respective functionality than offered on a 3in1 bundle. I'd argue the vast minority of people demand that combo, and I venture to back that up with the sales numbers or even awareness they exist.

    You like to point out paper specs and gimmicky combination of functionality. That's kool. I'm pointing out the entire ecosystem, synergy, life cycle, and user experience. We'll wait and see how the airpods actually perform. But there's a small chance they'll perform horribly. Reviews from the show floor look good already. 

  • Reply 130 of 140
    cnocbui said:

    And their endurance is more like 3hrs when not paired with a phone.  It's not surprising they are more expensive than the earpods, they are a fitness tracker, media player and bluetooth earbuds all rolled into one.

    Nice attempt at FUD.


    Oh and FUD specifically describes false and  dubious misinformation.

    Obviously you're misusing the phrase and kool-looking, insider acronym. I compared facts and tech reviews. Smart ass.

    Fear, uncertainty and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a disinformation strategy used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear.
  • Reply 131 of 140
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    xmhillx said:
    cnocbui said:

    And their endurance is more like 3hrs when not paired with a phone.  It's not surprising they are more expensive than the earpods, they are a fitness tracker, media player and bluetooth earbuds all rolled into one.

    Nice attempt at FUD.


    Oh and FUD specifically describes false and  dubious misinformation.

    Obviously you're misusing the phrase and kool-looking, insider acronym. I compared facts and tech reviews. Smart ass.

    Fear, uncertainty and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a disinformation strategy used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics and propaganda. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear.
    You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you and gave you rabies.

    Apart from the Airpods and Gear Icons fitting in your ear and being able to play music streamed via bluetooth, the two devices are not comparable or equal in function set.
    singularity
  • Reply 132 of 140
    cnocbui said:

    Apart from the Airpods and Gear Icons fitting in your ear and being able to play music streamed via bluetooth, the two devices are not comparable or equal in function set.
    Yeah, I concede. I definitely agree with that one.
  • Reply 133 of 140
    cnocbui said:
    baederboy said:
    What if now Apple doesn't use any additional compression to transmit data when using airpods with any apple device, but just sends AAC or Apple lossless?
    http://stereos.about.com/od/Wireless/fl/What-You-Might-Not-Know-About-Bluetooth.htm
    Is this done at all by other devices?
    Apple don't use the  lossless Bluetooth aptX codec with iOS.  You can only stream losslessly with iOS using Airplay and Wifi, which not that many headphones support.
    It'll be interesting to read a full technical analysis. If Apple is sending the raw digital AAC/etc. to the AirPods or to Lightning earphones rather than decoding, recompressing and sending that would be very good for quality.

    I'm anticipating companies selling tuneable DAC Lightning to 3.5mm adapters. Customize to better match your preferred genres. Customize to better match a particular headphone/earphone.
    mac_128
  • Reply 134 of 140
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,449member
    mknelson said:
    cnocbui said:
    baederboy said:
    What if now Apple doesn't use any additional compression to transmit data when using airpods with any apple device, but just sends AAC or Apple lossless?
    http://stereos.about.com/od/Wireless/fl/What-You-Might-Not-Know-About-Bluetooth.htm
    Is this done at all by other devices?
    Apple don't use the  lossless Bluetooth aptX codec with iOS.  You can only stream losslessly with iOS using Airplay and Wifi, which not that many headphones support.
    It'll be interesting to read a full technical analysis. If Apple is sending the raw digital AAC/etc. to the AirPods or to Lightning earphones rather than decoding, recompressing and sending that would be very good for quality.

    I'm anticipating companies selling tuneable DAC Lightning to 3.5mm adapters. Customize to better match your preferred genres. Customize to better match a particular headphone/earphone.
    Yes. I wish Phil had made much more out of this during his presentation and not spouting off about "courage".
  • Reply 135 of 140
    Almost as though that’s how these things look when you want to have a microphone in them
    Other companies manage it without the protruding microphone.  Technology has moved on over the last five years.Beam-forming and all that.




    cnocbui
  • Reply 136 of 140
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Those pics say it all - lol.  Let's see Apple try and persuade (pay much money) a bunch of celebrities to wear them in public as like they did with the Watch Edition.  Karl Lagerfeld will probably be very rude to them this time and suggest some rude things they can do with them.  Actually, we removed the headphone socket because of a bet between Tim and Eddy.  Tim bet Eddy $5 M he could make a few million people pay him to look like dorks.

    Expect a class action for hearing damage from people who inserted them wrong.
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 137 of 140
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,779member
    mknelson said:
    cnocbui said:
    baederboy said:
    What if now Apple doesn't use any additional compression to transmit data when using airpods with any apple device, but just sends AAC or Apple lossless?
    http://stereos.about.com/od/Wireless/fl/What-You-Might-Not-Know-About-Bluetooth.htm
    Is this done at all by other devices?
    Apple don't use the  lossless Bluetooth aptX codec with iOS.  You can only stream losslessly with iOS using Airplay and Wifi, which not that many headphones support.
    It'll be interesting to read a full technical analysis. If Apple is sending the raw digital AAC/etc. to the AirPods or to Lightning earphones rather than decoding, recompressing and sending that would be very good for quality.

    I'm anticipating companies selling tuneable DAC Lightning to 3.5mm adapters. Customize to better match your preferred genres. Customize to better match a particular headphone/earphone.
    They're apparently streaming AAC. That means that anything MP3 is transcoded first, introducing additional artifacts. 
    cnocbui
  • Reply 138 of 140
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,449member
    This is such good news, I'm thinking of upgrading my SE!

    Seriously, this made me laugh ;-)


  • Reply 139 of 140
    boredumbboredumb Posts: 1,416member
    @lkrupp
    "...they will say that blue skies suck and grey is better."
    Well, space grey was better!
    :D 
  • Reply 140 of 140
    xmhillx said:
    For example, Austin Evans compared sound from a $450 headphone that can swap its cable between 3.5mm and lightning. Tested it on an iPhone obviously, and the difference in sound quality was night and day better with lightning.

    https://youtu.be/1m-2HKN9txg

    Any opinions on this from your end?
    1. It appears Apple's lightning adapter passes analog through to the headphones, so unless you are using headphones with their own DAC, you'll be getting the same sound quality as using a 3.5mm jack. i.e. you're using the iPhone's internal DAC.
    2. The comments in the above about there not being any mids when using the 3.5mm jack only shows that Apple has EQed the analog output a certain way. I suspect with a good onboard EQ Austin could have made the headphones sound much better.
    3. Assuming the lightning connector is putting out digital, then the DAC in the headphone cable is clearly tuned for the headphones.

    "Good" DACs are not cheap. It will be interesting to see how much the quality varies in various headphones. One thing using an outboard DAC dedicated to one set of headphones does is allow the output to be tuned to the driver response. That could be a good thing.
    edited September 2016
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