Some Mac Pro support pages archived by Apple, will no longer be updated

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  • Reply 81 of 98
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,928member
    jasenj1 said:
    blastdoor said:
    They are not in a position to turn up their nose at selling a lot more highly profitable Pro-computers, just because it's a relatively small market. Ugh... I could go on and on, but there's no point. It's just frustrating. 
    The problem is, from a business/economics standpoint they are. The market for googaws like the iPhone & iWatch are orders of magnitude larger than the professional workstation market. The home & prosumer markets also dwarf the truly high-end professional market.

    Way back when Apple was a niche player and grew (both in size & reputation) by bringing professional level capabilities to a lower price point. Now Apple is firmly entrenched in the mass-market and needs to paddle fast to keep their position there. There isn't enough money in the truly pro market for them to worry about anymore.

    Which, again, is very sad. It's sad to think the 4k Blu-ray I will be buying in a couple years will be produced on a Windows machine rather than a Mac. That Apple will have no computer capable of viably, professionally, producing such products. OTOH, your daughter will be producing 1080p videos with amazing transitions, auto-closed captioning, color matching, 3D titles, and who knows what else, with her Barbies.
    If Apple's iPhone and iPad sales were growing you'd be right. And in 2010 that was the case.

    But in 2016 iPhone and iPad sales have been shrinking. 

    I realize that there is no way that growing Mac Pro sales could even remotely compensate for the decline in iSales. That's not my point. My point is that to compensate for the de3cline in iSales, Apple needs to look at all potentially profitable growth opportunities available to them, and the Mac Pro is one of those opportunities. 

    Here's the hardheaded business way to look at this. When Apple buys back a share of stock, the rate of return is essentially the dividend yield, which is about 2%. This means that any investment in the actual business that has an expected yield greater than 2% is something they should seriously consider as an alternative to share buy backs. That's a pretty low bar. 

    My hunch is that the real issue here is that Apple's management structure isn't currently capable of advancing more than a handful of product lines at a time. I suspect that there are bottlenecks at the top involving the attention of very senior people who have to sign off on everything. In other words, it's not that Apple doesn't "care" about pro Mac users -- it's that Apple still hasn't figured out how to walk and chew gum at the same time. Still, though -- it's a big problem. 

    xzulorin schultzjim w
  • Reply 82 of 98
    jasenj1 said:
    The problem is, from a business/economics standpoint they are. The market for googaws like the iPhone & iWatch are orders of magnitude larger than the professional workstation market. The home & prosumer markets also dwarf the truly high-end professional market.
    But that's just it - the MacPro with a few minor tweaks would be an excellent prosumer machine. Anyone that previously had a setup of any sort, including a PC, and already has a keyboard and monitor etc does not want to trash all that to get an iMac. The MacPro could be an excellent upsell to that market, which, as you say, is larger than they one they target now.
    xzu
  • Reply 83 of 98
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,789member
    Those of you saying you need ultimate computing power, perhaps a cluster is a possible alternative. You can pick up original Mac Pros for a song, then link them together with Pooch...since Xgrid was officially killed by Apple in Mountain Lion. There is a site called Low End Mac that can help you upgrade/hack them and get a current OS installed. If you hook together enough machines you could potentially achieve adequate computing power for your needs. You can really improve the speed of these old machines by installing full 32 GB of Ram which is pretty cheap now days. Also SSD. I even swapped out the Xeons. The cost was very reasonable.

    rezwits
  • Reply 84 of 98
    blastdoor said:

    My hunch is that the real issue here is that Apple's management structure isn't currently capable of advancing more than a handful of product lines at a time. I suspect that there are bottlenecks at the top involving the attention of very senior people who have to sign off on everything. In other words, 


    I think you're right.

    That's both good and bad. On the good side it means that everything goes through the ostensibly smartest and most intuitive people, which prevents poor designs from reaching the consumer.

    On the bad side it means that, as you say, some products won't get any attention simply because there are only so many things any one person (or group of people) can concentrate on at any given time.
  • Reply 85 of 98
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,789member
    wizard69 said:
    I still see it as a forward looking design. 
    They tried to make it small and sleek like the iDevices, but sometimes bigger is just better. Remember Steve said desktop computers will be the trucks. Many of us still want trucks. The current Mac Pro is like a race car.
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 86 of 98
    lkrupp said:
    TurboPGT said:
    altivec88 said:
    I know that secrecy builds up suspense and stuff but for us Pro's, secrecy just means lack of communication with the company that is providing us with tools.

    I just wish they would come out and tell us what is going on.  If they are planning an upgrade, can't they at least gives us an announcement to stay tuned and show us a grill or something.  If they have decided to get out of the pro market, can't they have the decency to just let us know.   I need to upgrade our systems.  Should I be switching to PC?  Should I be waiting a few more month?  I don't want to switch but I really can't operate my business like this anymore.  

    Apple get your act together.
    Just asking: how is it remotely possible that you "can't operate your business anymore" with a 2013 Mac Pro(s)? So much so that would consider a generic PC with presumably better specs-on-paper?


    Yes, I’d also like to know why you “can’t operate your business anymore” with a 2013 Mac Pro? That’s a pretty laughable statement to make you know. 
    Thanks for laughing at me. Please read my post above.
    blastdoor
  • Reply 87 of 98
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    Apple's redesigned Mac Pro was shipped after a long period with no updates to the larger aluminum tower Mac Pro. A longer period has elapsed since the release of the cylindrical Mac Pro, than between any other update to the line.


    The thing is, what the "trashcan" Mac Pro became was something that nobody specifically wanted. It would have been perfect as a redesign of the MacMini, with the option for Xeon CPU's and real GPU's instead of the laptop-class CPU's that the Mini has. However "Pro" users absolutely do not want any kind of non-removable parts because the parts must be upgraded as business requirements change, not when Apple decides to.

    I'd have bought a 2010 Mac Pro and kept it had I known it was going to be the last model. Instead I bought the 2012 MacMini and it serves as a secondary machine instead of my primary machine because APPLE will not release a Pro platform that is what Pro's want. Sure a Mini might be sufficient for Adobe CS3 suite, but nothing later as later versions all require non-awful GPU parts. I wouldn't even buy a MacBook Pro because the obsession with thinness has resulted in "MacBook Pro"'s that are not Pro equipment at all.

    Apple needs to go back to the 2010 design, which is what people want, and upgrade it for PCIe 3, NVMe and 20 USB-C 3.1 ports.


  • Reply 88 of 98
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    altivec88 said:

    In a professional setting, switching to PC is not an easy proposition.  We have people here that only know the Mac.  We have a lot of other software that is Mac only,  the costs, training and down time makes it difficult.   We also chose MacOS when we started because of all the problems associated with Windows.  We don't want to give that up either.  So if I know a new MacPro is coming, its much better to wait then to switch.   If they decide to discontinue the Pro or make another lame update, I have no choice.  All I am saying that after 1000 days give us pros some respect and at least tell us what is going on.
    Bingo.

    Every time I see someone propose "just switch to Windows" they completely ignore the costs of training, buying duplicate licenses to software that has separate platform licenses, and buying replacement interface cards (eg if you had all thunderbolt equipment)

    People who start on the Mac Platform, aren't chained to the platform, but they are hesitant to spend money and time retraining staff that are perfectly fine working on the existing platform. People who start on the Windows platform are used to losing work due to crashes every few hours and have developed an inefficient workflow to circumvent software and driver quality on Windows. As an example, "Quicksync" video is completely useless and unstable on Windows 10, yet it's a part of all laptop and desktop Intel chips. Do you really want to train your staff to have to copy their projects from their lightweight machines to the 44 core machine to even test a preview?  No. Even watching a video on Youtube risks losing work.

    Yet the Mac platform does not have this problem. The macOS platform's weakness comes from not having a reliable source of upgrades and parts. At some point you have to make seriously consider "hackintosh"'ing your own machines if Apple will not produce the hardware. Not worth the legal risk in the US, but I'm fairly certain this doesn't bother Asian countries.
  • Reply 89 of 98
    Apple is having another fire sale on (3 year old tech) laptops and other computers. Who in their right mind is gonna buy that stuff? Thanks apple (now a phone, tablet and watch company).
  • Reply 90 of 98
    Ever since the death of the Xserve, I have been pondering how Macintosh based companies, could exist, if they wanted to be "All Mac"   Well in all earnest I fear those days are long gone.  I just wanted to add some insight to the future of where Apple's super core machines (more than 24-48 etc) are going to come from.  Personally I couldn't believe they couldn't fit a 2nd Xeon in the 2013 design but that's another story.

    With their new language called Swift now version 3.0, this is now Apple's alternative to creating your own platform for servers, clusters, render farms, etc to support high powered demands.  Swift is mostly open source, but not quite with all the desired Apple frameworks (yet).  But as far as using Swift on Linux hardware people should be able to write software that is compatible and cross platform and networkable with Apple and Linux married together, in the future, it's not quite ready but you can get work done.

    I currently just see the Mac Pro as a front end system controller with the power to run 3 x 4K monitors or 6 x 2K monitors.  I mean it really doesn't have the number crunching ability to do heavy lifting, but it is a programmer's dream, if you want a desktop.  Sadly tho, most programmers just prefer MacBook Pros.   But when I need to cross reference multiple files for massive code refactoring and I need re-estate that one monitor can't cut, I leave the couch, and goto my 6 x 1080p's and go crazy for a day, but then back to couch :)

    Good Luck, with your future mac dreams...
  • Reply 91 of 98
    I just bought a second 2013 Mac Pro. Want a backup for Number One. Heavily invested in Thunderbolt 2. Could care less about 4K. Just a way for Sony and Samsung, not to mention Apple to get you to spend more on something you can't even see from more than three feet away. Apple is about planned obsolescence. How else do you keep the quarterlies up? Aperture was the last straw. Locking in on Yosemite, testing El Cap. 6S 128's for our phones. Only an idiot would pay $159 for two eminently losable cigarette butt headphones. All they have is OS X , excuse me Mac OS. iOS is the death knell of Apple as a company for pros. Yes, there is a difference. Think Different(ly). Where did the spirit of Steve and the adaptability of Woz go? Right down the highway a half mile away at Mr. Ive's home here on Kauai. He can hear me screaming at night if he opens his windows. Not "Windows". Please don't make me do that.
  • Reply 92 of 98
    volcan said:
    volcan said:
    Sorry but no way Apple redesigns this device only to cancel it a few years later. Would never have redesigned it in the first place, and just retired it in back in 2013.
    I suppose it depends how well it is selling. It certainly isn't getting a lot of love from the pro community. Had they just upgraded the tower form factor I would have bought one on day one. Instead I settled for iMac 5K maxed out.
    It would get more love if they didn't let it languish. Same with Mac Mini. I don't get Apple and the Mac these days. 

    But how embarrassing if they discontinue the product Phil Schiller used as proof that Apple could still innovate.
    The killer app that was supposed to represent the perfect pairing for the new Mac Pro was FCP X which also met with a rather chilly reception by the pros. I bought the app but never used it. I switched back to Premire.
    Then learn to spell it. I will never rent the keys to my work.
  • Reply 93 of 98

    ksec said:
    If there is anything, I think Mac Pro should be the single product that Apple produces and should make a Net Zero profit.
    i,e At the starting price of $2999, it should offer a Pro Computer that there is NO way you could build for the same price ( Specification wise ) and not from Competitors.

    It is highly likely, if not certain that within the next 2-3 years we will have iMac that offer 4x the current GPU performance of iMac 5K, 2x the CPU performance, 2x I/O Performance, 2x Memory. i.e It will pretty fit all of the Prosumer and Many professional needs.


    And it will melt in its incredibly thin case.
  • Reply 94 of 98
    blastdoor said:

    My hunch is that the real issue here is that Apple's management structure isn't currently capable of advancing more than a handful of product lines at a time. I suspect that there are bottlenecks at the top involving the attention of very senior people who have to sign off on everything. In other words, 


    I think you're right.

    That's both good and bad. On the good side it means that everything goes through the ostensibly smartest and most intuitive people, which prevents poor designs from reaching the consumer.

    On the bad side it means that, as you say, some products won't get any attention simply because there are only so many things any one person (or group of people) can concentrate on at any given time.
    Unfortunately, those doing the signing off have little clue as to what the pro market needs. Predictable advancement. Otherwise they will do what I am doing. Picking a market niche, buying what I need all at once so it is compatible, and not buying anything else for another five years. Doesn't jive with good quarterlies. Could give a **** about a fancy watch.
  • Reply 95 of 98
    TurboPGT said:
    altivec88 said:
    TurboPGT said:
    altivec88 said:
    I know that secrecy builds up suspense and stuff but for us Pro's, secrecy just means lack of communication with the company that is providing us with tools.

    I just wish they would come out and tell us what is going on.  If they are planning an upgrade, can't they at least gives us an announcement to stay tuned and show us a grill or something.  If they have decided to get out of the pro market, can't they have the decency to just let us know.   I need to upgrade our systems.  Should I be switching to PC?  Should I be waiting a few more month?  I don't want to switch but I really can't operate my business like this anymore.  

    Apple get your act together.
    Just asking: how is it remotely possible that you "can't operate your business anymore" with a 2013 Mac Pro(s)? So much so that would consider a generic PC with presumably better specs-on-paper?


    Because we do 3D renderings and require as much CPU as possible. The 2013 design did not help us out at all because they cut out an entire processor. So our 2010 12 core machines are pretty equivollent to the current 2013 machines at 12 cores only the 2013 cost twice as much. So we haven't upgraded most of our systems for 6 years. Some are starting to fail now and there is no way I would pay what Apple is asking for to replace them (double the price for 6 year old speed). This would be fine if the industry was sitting still but my competitors are easily surpassing what my company can do. They are running 44 core machines from Dell and HP. In rendering terms, that means what we can do in 10 hours, they can do in 2.5 hours. or it means they can crank up the realism, or a little of both. It was fine before because with-in a year Apple would be slightly ahead, and then the PC would be slight ahead but its been 6 years with no improvement in CPU. Like I said, I don't really want to switch to PC but I keep waiting and waiting and waiting.
    Sounds horribly inefficient.

    What you're telling me is that your operation is a Core Whore, and you've yet find to find a more efficient way of accomplishing the tasks, or more efficient software that can do the same job with less horsepower. But let's not even get into that.

    There are machines out there built for what it is you are trying to do...DELL is one of the makers of them. Why on earth would you even expect Apple to tackle that market? It's not that Apple once made computers for your task....they once made the fastest computers any money could buy. That changed as hardware changed and as other companies took on certain priorities.

    Don't expect Apple to make any 44 core Mac Pros. If that is what you're waiting on, move on.
    Wow... I wouldn't be so condescending if as clueless as that... it's not like the OP is writing the rendering SW... and those packages are *very* tuned... but they need ALL the cores and cycles they can get... that stuff just takes lots of cycles

    Sounds you're horribly inefficient because you can't fly by flapping your arms... see how douchy that sounds?
  • Reply 96 of 98
    The biggest problem with Apple building a competitive Mac Pro will be that it probably can't be green.  Most of those Windows PCs with dual SLI graphics cards require enormous power supplies to power those cards and they simply suck up electricity like crazy.  I don't believe Apple wants to build any computers like that which is quite unfortunate for the professional (or gamer or VR enthusiast) looking to own a Mac computer.  Someone at Apple is more concerned about saving the ecology than building powerful desktop computers.  I certainly understand why Apple wants to build most home-use computers with green tech, but a pro computer built to conserve energy isn't going to sell.  I understand Apple's viewpoint but it's a difficult choice to make.  No other company seems to be hung up on building green computers like Apple is.

    If Apple build a Mac Pro made to use a couple of standard GPUs I might at least consider getting one but at this point I'd only buy a high-end iMac that can implement CUDA for video encoding.  I know why Apple isn't backing virtual reality but augmented reality.  Virtual reality computers are definitely not going to be green computers.  They'll require the highest amount of processing power and Apple isn't into that.  Apple seems to be taking a path of its own and Wall Street isn't going to like it one bit.  In my opinion, Apple is handicapping its own growth, but then again they're entitled to run the company with their own vision and I can't fault that.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 97 of 98
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    roake said:
    Think you might have a typo there

    "Apple has moved four some of its support pages specifically detailing the redesigned 2013 Mac Pro to the archives, and will no longer be updating them, signaling a possible refresh or retirement of the computer."
    Just a dream of his.

    There is no way they are "retiring" the Mac Pro, not after that "Can't innovate, my ass." speech when it was announced.

    Apple will continue to support high-end needs.  
    "Continue to support"?  You must be thinking of something else.  Apple may do a lot of things but supporting high end needs hasn't been one for a while and they haven't given anyone the impression that will change.  If they were to confirm they were releasing a new Mac Pro this year and not touching it again for another three it wouldn't make them a high end needs supporter.

    And since when has hyperbole during a roll out speech ever been proof of commitment three years later?
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