Um, buy an iBook for a couple hundred more. Why would you buy that old machine that can't run OS X for the life of it? (No Quartz Extreme capability, slower processor, etc.)
Don't exaggerate. I used to have OS X Server installed on a lombard 400 (and that is less performant, due to what, cache? system bus?), and it was alright (even with half the memory of the one you mention). I don't have Quartz Extreme now (on this iBook 600), and yet I find Jaguar very usable (of course, I never had a dual G4 1,25 giga - it all depends wherefrom you are coming).
Also, the pismo was, in my eyes, the most beautiful laptop made (at least, when it was released).
The only thing which I think now I could never live with anymore is only 10 GB of HD. Depending on what you do. I have a 20 gigger now, and 'tis only through a strict archiving-to-cdr routine that I keep my little comp from choking to death.
All in all, I don't think it so bad. These machines are still going for 1000 euros over here, to give you an idea, but then again, we pay 4200 euro for the new 1 gig Powerbooks, so... (and, in case you don't know: euro =± dollar).
It wasan exxageration, I admit it, but it still doesn't make sense. Why buy something years old when you can buy latest and greatest for a bit more? My company just bought a 667 restocked Titanium from Apple (Cambrideside) 1599. There are better deals out there then the one you're considering.
well, $700 is my absolute limit. $1500 for a 667 G4 powerbook is more than twice as much as i want to spend, nevermind the price of this laptop. i can get a refurb 600 iBook for $799, but that doesn't have DVD, which I would really like. having said that, i did ask for opinions, and i appreciate your input.
i'm not too concerned with OS X, i don't plan on putting it on.
Well then, sure do go ahead with the Pismo. It is more than swift in OS 9, and it's probably the cheapest mac laptop with a 14.1 inch screen you'll find. (I do think one shouldn't yet discard the pwb G3's as viable computer, they are still nothing to be ashamed of these days).
i run OS X on my G4 800, and it runs pretty well. I'd never put it on a G3. It looks pretty and all, but it just isn't worth the performance hit, especially since i am just using this machine for presentations and web surfing and word processing.
<strong>i run OS X on my G4 800, and it runs pretty well. I'd never put it on a G3. It looks pretty and all, but it just isn't worth the performance hit, especially since i am just using this machine for presentations and web surfing and word processing.
There is a very major performance difference when switching from a G3 to a G4 in OS X, at least with processors in the 300-500 MHz range. My brother's blue G3 is quite choppy for various effects in OS X on the stock 400 MHz G3, but when he replaced the G3 with a 400 MHz G4 everything got super smooth. It made much less difference when he switched from a 16 MB Rage 128 to a 32 MB original Radeon. True, he didn't have quartz extreme, but OS X is still pretty fast without QE (just look at 10.1.5 on any G4 and it's at least smooth).
Anyway, I would rather have a Pismo upgraded to a 500 MHz G4 than a 600 MHz G3 iBook with the slightly better graphics. The G4 will feel faster.
Hmm, I have a Pismo 400, and with Jag, OS X finally runs nicely. Sure, I do consider upping the processor with a G4, but in my daily work - from spreadsheets to video imports and compression - I really don't see the need to buy a new PowerBook.
In fact, I frown every day about these ibook kiddies - with my NICE LARGE SCREEN on the Pismo, I can see the entire Callsheet and have it done quickly without mistake, because I see where I work - because it is the right gear for the job.
Also, I have several Cardbus/PCMCIA cards that I use a lot to connect to everyone and their legacy products, as well as Video Import. And I have Firewire to troubleshoot new systems. It is a Tank and a Workhorse, and again - the screen is nice and large, and you can extend the Desktop to a TV or second display, which I sometimes do in the real world.
And, frankly, having a whole Meg of cache right on the processor makes up for a lot of speed in the everyday crunching tasks.
The price quoted to you is more than good, and if you don't want it, I gladly get it for some of my clients - honestly! Plus, you can upgrade to a G4 for a little, whence you can afford to do so. Rule of thumb - never get a Computer that isn't right for what you need to do in the forseeable future. You could also purchase "Big Blue" to work on your spreadsheets - but, why would you? You will be so very, very happy with your Pismo!
Now what's so bad about that? Honestly, although I never work in classic no more, I seriously don't see any problem if this guy wants to do so. What is this all about anyway?
It's all about the right software for the machine, Gambit. You wouldn't go putting system 7.6 on a IIcx, would you? Heck no, the best system for most 68030s is 7.1. Just as I wouldn't put OS 9 on a 6100/60, 8.1 or 8.6 is better suited to it.
Likewise, an original iMac is super fast with OS 9.2.2, but it's very slow in OS X. So OS 9.2.2 is the better system for it, unless you can put up with the slow speed.
I would consider the Pismo borderline... if my brother's 400 MHz blue G3 is any indication, it should be tolerably fast, but it will choke on the demanding visual effects like genies and dock magnification.
<strong>It's all about the right software for the machine, Gambit. You wouldn't go putting system 7.6 on a IIcx, would you? Heck no, the best system for most 68030s is 7.1. Just as I wouldn't put OS 9 on a 6100/60, 8.1 or 8.6 is better suited to it.
Likewise, an original iMac is super fast with OS 9.2.2, but it's very slow in OS X. So OS 9.2.2 is the better system for it, unless you can put up with the slow speed.
I would consider the Pismo borderline... if my brother's 400 MHz blue G3 is any indication, it should be tolerably fast, but it will choke on the demanding visual effects like genies and dock magnification.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is indeed tolerably fast - there is no realtime difference with Genie Effect or Dock Magnification to my 933 Quicksilver. Let's, perhaps, not overrate eyecandy - the much that I love it;
but, scrolling is still faster in 9.2.2 than in 10.2.2 on my Quicksilver, although I only use Classic on it for DiskWarrior. A Pismo is expandable and upgradable!
For less than a new iBook , you can put a G4-500 and a Gig of Ram in, and you have a better screen!
I just wouldn't play games on it, but I wouldn't want to do that on an iBook either.
And, Splinemodel:
"Put in 768MB of RAM, then disable font smoothing and drop shadows, and it will run OK. "
Anyway, the Pismo isn't such a bad machine because, if you eventually feel like it, you can turn it into a RevA Ti-Book via processor upgrade. The Rage128 will still hurt, but if you need a mac, and that's your price limit, I guess go for it.
well, i decided to pick up the pismo. the price is pretty good compared to some other pismo prices i've seen floating around. they say it is in "excellent" condition, and i hope them to be right. anyhow, i completely agree with Luca that this machine is on the border between OS 9 and OS X, and for my purposes, i have absolutely no reason to use X. if 9 becomes ridiculously obsolete in the next couple of years, i'll probably upgrade to a G4/500 and put on Jag or 10.3 or whatever is out. Before then, there is just no point.
Whatever the case, I am really excited to receive my Pismo and I just made a deal with someone to get an airport card for it too. How is the airport reception on these things? I know airport on PBs tends to be lousy
My "shaking head icon" is not so much about what software he wants on his Pismo, but, the way I read it the first time, it seemed like a dismissal of the OS itself. It just seems silly to me to buy a computer that is already so outdated compared to what you can get for a bit more. Put it this way: when someone buys RAM for a new computer, they either max it out or buy just enough to last for a bit. It always made sense to me to buy the most MB per chip instead of a little now, then more later: you're spending more money overall then you would be if you maxed out the slot to begin with. ....... Does anybody else see my point?
<strong>My "shaking head icon" is not so much about what software he wants on his Pismo, but, the way I read it the first time, it seemed like a dismissal of the OS itself. It just seems silly to me to buy a computer that is already so outdated compared to what you can get for a bit more. Put it this way: when someone buys RAM for a new computer, they either max it out or buy just enough to last for a bit. It always made sense to me to buy the most MB per chip instead of a little now, then more later: you're spending more money overall then you would be if you maxed out the slot to begin with. ....... Does anybody else see my point?</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree in filling up a single slot with the most ram possible--because you would spend more in the end if you did not. in the case of running a pismo on OS 9, i am spending less. to get an iBook with DVD and a 100mhz bus would cost me probably $200-$300 more. i'd prolly get an extra 200mhz on the processor (200mhz that i don't really need), a smaller screen (i don't like to squint) and more-than likely less ram upgradeability and definitely less (none) processor upgradability. honestly, i'll probably never upgrade this thing. it fits my needs, it is in my budget. nice G4 OSX laptops are more than a couple hundred past my price point.
Overall, I support computing at the somewhat low end, and lowendmac is one of my favorite sites (here is a link i remember from a few weeks back: <a href="http://www.lowendmac.com/webb/02/1115.html"; target="_blank">http://www.lowendmac.com/webb/02/1115.html</a>; ). More than supporting the lowend, i support computing at my specific needs. I need a faster desktop, so i bought a used G4 800 QS for $800. Actually, the G4 800 is slightly beyond my needs, but at that price point, there was no reason not to get it.
I didn't mean to completely dismiss OS X, it is a great operating system, but I hate sluggishness, and if OS 9 does what i need it to do, i'll stick with it (repeating myself).
Now I have produced more babbling than you can shake a stick at.
Comments
Also, the pismo was, in my eyes, the most beautiful laptop made (at least, when it was released).
The only thing which I think now I could never live with anymore is only 10 GB of HD. Depending on what you do. I have a 20 gigger now, and 'tis only through a strict archiving-to-cdr routine that I keep my little comp from choking to death.
All in all, I don't think it so bad. These machines are still going for 1000 euros over here, to give you an idea, but then again, we pay 4200 euro for the new 1 gig Powerbooks, so... (and, in case you don't know: euro =± dollar).
i'm not too concerned with OS X, i don't plan on putting it on.
[ 12-04-2002: Message edited by: progmac ]</p>
<strong>i'm not too concerned with OS X, i don't plan on putting it on.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Pft.
pft.
[ 12-04-2002: Message edited by: progmac ]</p>
<strong>i run OS X on my G4 800, and it runs pretty well. I'd never put it on a G3. It looks pretty and all, but it just isn't worth the performance hit, especially since i am just using this machine for presentations and web surfing and word processing.
pft.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
OSX runs fine on a 366 mhz iBook with 640mb RAM.
Anyway, I would rather have a Pismo upgraded to a 500 MHz G4 than a 600 MHz G3 iBook with the slightly better graphics. The G4 will feel faster.
In fact, I frown every day about these ibook kiddies - with my NICE LARGE SCREEN on the Pismo, I can see the entire Callsheet and have it done quickly without mistake, because I see where I work - because it is the right gear for the job.
Also, I have several Cardbus/PCMCIA cards that I use a lot to connect to everyone and their legacy products, as well as Video Import. And I have Firewire to troubleshoot new systems. It is a Tank and a Workhorse, and again - the screen is nice and large, and you can extend the Desktop to a TV or second display, which I sometimes do in the real world.
And, frankly, having a whole Meg of cache right on the processor makes up for a lot of speed in the everyday crunching tasks.
The price quoted to you is more than good, and if you don't want it, I gladly get it for some of my clients - honestly! Plus, you can upgrade to a G4 for a little, whence you can afford to do so. Rule of thumb - never get a Computer that isn't right for what you need to do in the forseeable future. You could also purchase "Big Blue" to work on your spreadsheets - but, why would you? You will be so very, very happy with your Pismo!
Cheers. Werner.
[QBi'm not too concerned with OS X, i don't plan on putting it on.][/QB]<hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Now what's so bad about that? Honestly, although I never work in classic no more, I seriously don't see any problem if this guy wants to do so. What is this all about anyway?
Likewise, an original iMac is super fast with OS 9.2.2, but it's very slow in OS X. So OS 9.2.2 is the better system for it, unless you can put up with the slow speed.
I would consider the Pismo borderline... if my brother's 400 MHz blue G3 is any indication, it should be tolerably fast, but it will choke on the demanding visual effects like genies and dock magnification.
<strong>It's all about the right software for the machine, Gambit. You wouldn't go putting system 7.6 on a IIcx, would you? Heck no, the best system for most 68030s is 7.1. Just as I wouldn't put OS 9 on a 6100/60, 8.1 or 8.6 is better suited to it.
Likewise, an original iMac is super fast with OS 9.2.2, but it's very slow in OS X. So OS 9.2.2 is the better system for it, unless you can put up with the slow speed.
I would consider the Pismo borderline... if my brother's 400 MHz blue G3 is any indication, it should be tolerably fast, but it will choke on the demanding visual effects like genies and dock magnification.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is indeed tolerably fast - there is no realtime difference with Genie Effect or Dock Magnification to my 933 Quicksilver. Let's, perhaps, not overrate eyecandy - the much that I love it;
but, scrolling is still faster in 9.2.2 than in 10.2.2 on my Quicksilver, although I only use Classic on it for DiskWarrior. A Pismo is expandable and upgradable!
For less than a new iBook , you can put a G4-500 and a Gig of Ram in, and you have a better screen!
I just wouldn't play games on it, but I wouldn't want to do that on an iBook either.
And, Splinemodel:
"Put in 768MB of RAM, then disable font smoothing and drop shadows, and it will run OK. "
- dang rights!
Anyway, the Pismo isn't such a bad machine because, if you eventually feel like it, you can turn it into a RevA Ti-Book via processor upgrade. The Rage128 will still hurt, but if you need a mac, and that's your price limit, I guess go for it.
Whatever the case, I am really excited to receive my Pismo and I just made a deal with someone to get an airport card for it too. How is the airport reception on these things? I know airport on PBs tends to be lousy
<strong>
OSX runs fine on a 366 mhz iBook with 640mb RAM.</strong><hr></blockquote>
fine is relative. i'm sure OS 9 screams comparatively.
<strong>My "shaking head icon" is not so much about what software he wants on his Pismo, but, the way I read it the first time, it seemed like a dismissal of the OS itself. It just seems silly to me to buy a computer that is already so outdated compared to what you can get for a bit more. Put it this way: when someone buys RAM for a new computer, they either max it out or buy just enough to last for a bit. It always made sense to me to buy the most MB per chip instead of a little now, then more later: you're spending more money overall then you would be if you maxed out the slot to begin with. ....... Does anybody else see my point?</strong><hr></blockquote>
i agree in filling up a single slot with the most ram possible--because you would spend more in the end if you did not. in the case of running a pismo on OS 9, i am spending less. to get an iBook with DVD and a 100mhz bus would cost me probably $200-$300 more. i'd prolly get an extra 200mhz on the processor (200mhz that i don't really need), a smaller screen (i don't like to squint) and more-than likely less ram upgradeability and definitely less (none) processor upgradability. honestly, i'll probably never upgrade this thing. it fits my needs, it is in my budget. nice G4 OSX laptops are more than a couple hundred past my price point.
Overall, I support computing at the somewhat low end, and lowendmac is one of my favorite sites (here is a link i remember from a few weeks back: <a href="http://www.lowendmac.com/webb/02/1115.html"; target="_blank">http://www.lowendmac.com/webb/02/1115.html</a>; ). More than supporting the lowend, i support computing at my specific needs. I need a faster desktop, so i bought a used G4 800 QS for $800. Actually, the G4 800 is slightly beyond my needs, but at that price point, there was no reason not to get it.
I didn't mean to completely dismiss OS X, it is a great operating system, but I hate sluggishness, and if OS 9 does what i need it to do, i'll stick with it (repeating myself).
Now I have produced more babbling than you can shake a stick at.