Apple FCC filing shows Apple TV-sized device with Bluetooth, NFC under review

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 58
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,080member
    mcdave said:
    polymnia said:
    jason98 said:
    4k finally? Had to skip the 4th generation because it was missing. It is kind of absurd situation, you can record 4k on iPhone, but can't watch it in full resolution.

    the 4th gen was still a major upgrade, purely for the apps. i can't imagine skipping it over lack of 4k. first, because i don't have a 4k tv or see one i want to buy. second, because i don't want to pay extra for 4k content. and third, because i prefer shooting on my iPhone at 1080p w/ 60 FPS.

    by the time those points are addressed there will likely be a 5th gen...and in all the meanwhile ill have enjoyed real world value from the apps i use every week.
    I was surprised to get all the way to the end of the comments before finding the 4K hate.
    Very first post was about 4K.<sigh> Do we really have to revisit the 4K issue every time anything related to the ATV is discussed? Hasn't it already been discussed to death? These posts merely revisit the same points again and again and again. Don't take this to mean I don't like 4K, I have nothing against it (though its proponents drive me fucking batty!), the thing is: nothing new is being added to the discussion that hasn't already been said myriad times in forums across the internet.

    Back in the day on MacRumors every single discussion thread that covered any potential new product, there was a vocal subset that rushed into the thread to be the first to post, "What about the Mac Pro?!" even when it had nothing to do with desktops or anything remotely related to a Mac Pro.

    Once 4K is supported by Apple and the new 4K ATV is launched, then the same crowd will be back demanding 8K or whatever the latest new resolution or specification is on the horizon, filling the threads with the same (exactly the same) discussion about Apple being behind the times, blah, blah, blah. To even suggest this issue be put to rest invites a label of "4K hater." The repetition is old and the discourse is stale.
    Thank goodness they didn't apply your mentality to Retina displays.  In that case they led and the content followed. 
    This is so fucking stupid, trying to explain why Apple has no 4K makes one a 4K hater or obsessed with 4K (another juvenile favourite logical fallacy), this is why the moderators need to extract anything to do with 4K and put it in another thread (call it the "rat hole" where anyone wanting to discuss the same thing using the same arguments over and over and over again can do so).

    You are arguing against some phantom that *you* created, just as others do so they can continue to beat on someone over *Apple's* decision (Apple's decision, not mine). I don't give a shit about it, but I do hate the hijacking of every single fucking thread and reading the same arguments and same points over and over ad nauseum by, let's call them "the whiners," and even 8 year olds know that "whiners are wieners!" (Dakota Fanning, Friends S10E14)

    It's the same as it's been since the ATV4 was released, the same as it was with the ATV2 when it was released and no 1080p support then, it's the same with Apple every time and pointing it out (it's called fucking history, read about it!) makes one anti-whatever Apple failed to implement in its latest device, seriously?! FFS, grow some fucking logic, will ya?!

    Can we please stop talking about its not being there and talk about other goodness in their lovely devices?!
    I was anxiously awaiting your more inlightened comments about this vague article. Sadly, those anticipated comments never appeared. 

    Clearly our (I think) good natured ribbing on the 4K lover/hater issue was a far lower form of discourse than your profanity-laced screed. My mistake, and I assume all the other perpetrators will join me in trying our best to please you with the types of comments you prefer from now on. 

    I hope the rest of your day is better than the couple minutes you spent that comment must have felt like. That kind of anger just isn't healthy.
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 42 of 58
    polymnia said:
    profanity-laced screed.
    Pardon me, I wasn't aware such delicate sensibilities were present. [rolls eyes, in search of some imagined high road I expect to find you riding down]
    tallest skil
  • Reply 43 of 58
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,080member
    polymnia said:
    profanity-laced screed.
    Pardon me, I wasn't aware such delicate sensibilities were present. [rolls eyes, in search of some imagined high road I expect to find you riding down]
    Hey, man. Would you enter a conversation IRL with guns blazing like that? Would you be surprised at people finding you to be rather crass? I know this is just the Internet, but you'll have more success being nice to people. Or at least keeping the F-bombs stowed for the first few minutes.

    For your health!
  • Reply 44 of 58
    polymnia said:
    polymnia said:
    profanity-laced screed.
    Pardon me, I wasn't aware such delicate sensibilities were present. [rolls eyes, in search of some imagined high road I expect to find you riding down]
    Hey, man. Would you enter a conversation IRL with guns blazing like that? Would you be surprised at people finding you to be rather crass? I know this is just the Internet, but you'll have more success being nice to people. Or at least keeping the F-bombs stowed for the first few minutes.

    For your health!
    More of your purported "good-natured ribbing," I see.

    Save your fucking lectures, seriously, you're way over the self-righteous line.

    edit: and IRL if someone repeated ad nauseam the same thing over and over and over again, yes I would tell them to STFU, as would every one else in the room.
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 45 of 58
    Yes, good-natured ribbing. That's exactly how I describe it. You might notice the lack of swearing and personal insults. That is one of the tell-tale signs of good-natured discussion. Also a redirection tactic, trying to steer our discussion back to a more civil tone.

    I am anxiously awaiting your insightful comments on the article.

    At first I considered reporting your angry comments to the moderators, but I'd prefer to let them stand here as a testament to your unpleasantness.

    Quick reality check: You do realize we are all here reading serious reporting of unannounced, rumored Apple products of the future, reading the tea leaves that the AI staff diligently uncovers for our consideration. We are a bunch of (mostly) grown (mostly) men who are discussing our Apple tech fantasies with each other. I try to remember those facts while reading and commenting in this imaginative, insightful (inciteful?) and absurd community.

    I'm game for reading any Apple tech fantasy you care to indulge yourself in.

    I'm not here to be cursed by anyone.

    For what it's worth, I sill feel the next AppleTV (which is what this article speculates this filing might describe) should be a 4K unit. I think the time is right. Apple sells 4 different iPhone models that capture 4K video now. So if the studios don't have 4K content yet, there are untold millions of iPhone 6s and iPhone 7 owners who may be producing that content themselves as we speak.
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 46 of 58
    RS485, people. Yes, NFC can provide physical authentication for security, voting, 911, a whole new ecosystem of services. But the scope becomes potentially large because RS485 can talk to any number of devices via one serial port, bringing industrial-type control and management to the home, or just talking to a new generation of smart peripherals. Something big is behind the curtain...

    No reason it has to be limited to the home...  Office, hospital, airport, parking garage,  etc. are good possibilities.  I did some rough pricing of the computers used in building access systems.

    To do what this puppy apparently can do:  facial recognition, digital fingerprint recognition, NFC, and even lowly card reading -- the computer and installation, alone, would cost about $10,000 (that's exclusive of door hardware).

    I laid my share of twisted pair wiring, back in the days, and it's a piece of cake -- even in a Frank Lloyd Wright building.

    edited September 2016 tallest skil
  • Reply 47 of 58
    polymnia said:
    Yes, good-natured ribbing. That's exactly how I describe it. You might notice the lack of swearing and personal insults. That is one of the tell-tale signs of good-natured discussion. Also a redirection tactic, trying to steer our discussion back to a more civil tone.

    I am anxiously awaiting your insightful comments on the article.

    At first I considered reporting your angry comments to the moderators, but I'd prefer to let them stand here as a testament to your unpleasantness.

    Quick reality check: You do realize we are all here reading serious reporting of unannounced, rumored Apple products of the future, reading the tea leaves that the AI staff diligently uncovers for our consideration. We are a bunch of (mostly) grown (mostly) men who are discussing our Apple tech fantasies with each other. I try to remember those facts while reading and commenting in this imaginative, insightful (inciteful?) and absurd community.

    I'm game for reading any Apple tech fantasy you care to indulge yourself in.

    I'm not here to be cursed by anyone.

    For what it's worth, I sill feel the next AppleTV (which is what this article speculates this filing might describe) should be a 4K unit. I think the time is right. Apple sells 4 different iPhone models that capture 4K video now. So if the studios don't have 4K content yet, there are untold millions of iPhone 6s and iPhone 7 owners who may be producing that content themselves as we speak.
    You can describe things any way you want, but that doesn't make them right or real. You can claim offence too by throwing yourself in front of some imagined stream of invective, but that doesn't mean it's real to anyone but your own very creative imagination. Claiming something doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you try. Your sensibilities are not my problem but yours, if AI has a problem with the word FUCK, they can ban it from use on the forum. Until then, it's a word, pure and simple. I never insulted you, I never threw it at you, I never called you names, I never attacked anyone (not anyone) personally (never any ad hominems), I'm very careful about that because it's the first step to kill discourse, no matter what you say or think on the subject. The audacity to claim victim status in a post laden with such self-righteousness and patronisation. Rolling eyes is justified here.

    And, as it turns out, my first comment in this thread, on topic, as none of this entire conversation has been, I'll remind you, was this (in reference to the original article), "Perhaps something like an Amazon Echo, using Siri and incorporating Apple Pay (does this make sense?) for sites that don't integrate it on the web or alternatively a simple quick login to Apple Home??" (think about this comment as you read today's article, "Apple allegedly working on Siri stand-alone speaker with HomeKit integration" and then perhaps examine your statement, "we are all here reading serious reporting..." when it was YOU who was the first to broach the "anti-4K" subject in this thread, when there was nothing of the sort to which you were replying)

    Instead, as it turns out this "serious conversation" for which you're here and supposedly supporting turns out to be the same old 4K crap over and over and over and over and over again. Remind me exactly what is being added to intelligent conversation that starts with the same old whines, points and arguments we've been reading since the ATV was launched a year ago, which all repeat the same whines of the launch of the ATV2 and 1080p a few short years ago, which all repeat the same whines of .... ? and on and on again.

    Finally, shame on both of us for boring the hell out of all other readers of this thread for this disgusting public spat, readers who most likely long ago left this thread, I apologise (to them), and also for the 4K diarrhoea which continues to spew in these forums. I look forward to the day 4K is supported by Apple only to be replaced by the next tech Apple will undoubtedly fail to incorporate into their devices, launching a whole new (by that I mean OLD) set of repeated arguments about Apple not supporting the latest tech in that device. Get in the queue prepared to defend those whiners, it's already filled with familiar and stale arguments ready to be presented as new yet again.
  • Reply 48 of 58
    I don’t figure Apple will offer 2160p until they can also offer H.265 hardware support for all currently shipping products. And then they’ll artificially block H.265 from everything else. Just watch.  :p
  • Reply 49 of 58
    polymnia said:
    Yes, good-natured ribbing. That's exactly how I describe it. You might notice the lack of swearing and personal insults. That is one of the tell-tale signs of good-natured discussion. Also a redirection tactic, trying to steer our discussion back to a more civil tone.

    I am anxiously awaiting your insightful comments on the article.

    At first I considered reporting your angry comments to the moderators, but I'd prefer to let them stand here as a testament to your unpleasantness.

    Quick reality check: You do realize we are all here reading serious reporting of unannounced, rumored Apple products of the future, reading the tea leaves that the AI staff diligently uncovers for our consideration. We are a bunch of (mostly) grown (mostly) men who are discussing our Apple tech fantasies with each other. I try to remember those facts while reading and commenting in this imaginative, insightful (inciteful?) and absurd community.

    I'm game for reading any Apple tech fantasy you care to indulge yourself in.

    I'm not here to be cursed by anyone.

    For what it's worth, I sill feel the next AppleTV (which is what this article speculates this filing might describe) should be a 4K unit. I think the time is right. Apple sells 4 different iPhone models that capture 4K video now. So if the studios don't have 4K content yet, there are untold millions of iPhone 6s and iPhone 7 owners who may be producing that content themselves as we speak.
    You can describe things any way you want, but that doesn't make them right or real. You can claim offence too by throwing yourself in front of some imagined stream of invective, but that doesn't mean it's real to anyone but your own very creative imagination. Claiming something doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you try. Your sensibilities are not my problem but yours, if AI has a problem with the word FUCK, they can ban it from use on the forum. Until then, it's a word, pure and simple. I never insulted you, I never threw it at you, I never called you names, I never attacked anyone (not anyone) personally (never any ad hominems), I'm very careful about that because it's the first step to kill discourse, no matter what you say or think on the subject. The audacity to claim victim status in a post laden with such self-righteousness and patronisation. Rolling eyes is justified here.

    And, as it turns out, my first comment in this thread, on topic, as none of this entire conversation has been, I'll remind you, was this (in reference to the original article), "Perhaps something like an Amazon Echo, using Siri and incorporating Apple Pay (does this make sense?) for sites that don't integrate it on the web or alternatively a simple quick login to Apple Home??" (think about this comment as you read today's article, "Apple allegedly working on Siri stand-alone speaker with HomeKit integration" and then perhaps examine your statement, "we are all here reading serious reporting..." when it was YOU who was the first to broach the "anti-4K" subject in this thread, when there was nothing of the sort to which you were replying)

    Instead, as it turns out this "serious conversation" for which you're here and supposedly supporting turns out to be the same old 4K crap over and over and over and over and over again. Remind me exactly what is being added to intelligent conversation that starts with the same old whines, points and arguments we've been reading since the ATV was launched a year ago, which all repeat the same whines of the launch of the ATV2 and 1080p a few short years ago, which all repeat the same whines of .... ? and on and on again.

    Finally, shame on both of us for boring the hell out of all other readers of this thread for this disgusting public spat, readers who most likely long ago left this thread, I apologise (to them), and also for the 4K diarrhoea which continues to spew in these forums. I look forward to the day 4K is supported by Apple only to be replaced by the next tech Apple will undoubtedly fail to incorporate into their devices, launching a whole new (by that I mean OLD) set of repeated arguments about Apple not supporting the latest tech in that device. Get in the queue prepared to defend those whiners, it's already filled with familiar and stale arguments ready to be presented as new yet again.
    Shame on both of us indeed.

    I'm sorry I didn't notice your earlier post.

    I'm not against the use of the work 'Fuck'. Its actually one of my favorite.

    My beef is with the hostility of your smack down. Suggesting our comments should be banished because they don't meet your standards is what bothers me. I feel any discussion of a future AppleTV is a fair place to discuss 4K. I'm sorry this upsets you. It's interesting to me.

    And I'm certainly not in favor of seriousness in regards to future Apple product fantasies.

    Anyway, long live 4K!


  • Reply 50 of 58
    polymnia said:
    polymnia said:
    Yes, good-natured ribbing. That's exactly how I describe it. You might notice the lack of swearing and personal insults. That is one of the tell-tale signs of good-natured discussion. Also a redirection tactic, trying to steer our discussion back to a more civil tone.

    I am anxiously awaiting your insightful comments on the article.

    At first I considered reporting your angry comments to the moderators, but I'd prefer to let them stand here as a testament to your unpleasantness.

    Quick reality check: You do realize we are all here reading serious reporting of unannounced, rumored Apple products of the future, reading the tea leaves that the AI staff diligently uncovers for our consideration. We are a bunch of (mostly) grown (mostly) men who are discussing our Apple tech fantasies with each other. I try to remember those facts while reading and commenting in this imaginative, insightful (inciteful?) and absurd community.

    I'm game for reading any Apple tech fantasy you care to indulge yourself in.

    I'm not here to be cursed by anyone.

    For what it's worth, I sill feel the next AppleTV (which is what this article speculates this filing might describe) should be a 4K unit. I think the time is right. Apple sells 4 different iPhone models that capture 4K video now. So if the studios don't have 4K content yet, there are untold millions of iPhone 6s and iPhone 7 owners who may be producing that content themselves as we speak.
    You can describe things any way you want, but that doesn't make them right or real. You can claim offence too by throwing yourself in front of some imagined stream of invective, but that doesn't mean it's real to anyone but your own very creative imagination. Claiming something doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you try. Your sensibilities are not my problem but yours, if AI has a problem with the word FUCK, they can ban it from use on the forum. Until then, it's a word, pure and simple. I never insulted you, I never threw it at you, I never called you names, I never attacked anyone (not anyone) personally (never any ad hominems), I'm very careful about that because it's the first step to kill discourse, no matter what you say or think on the subject. The audacity to claim victim status in a post laden with such self-righteousness and patronisation. Rolling eyes is justified here.

    And, as it turns out, my first comment in this thread, on topic, as none of this entire conversation has been, I'll remind you, was this (in reference to the original article), "Perhaps something like an Amazon Echo, using Siri and incorporating Apple Pay (does this make sense?) for sites that don't integrate it on the web or alternatively a simple quick login to Apple Home??" (think about this comment as you read today's article, "Apple allegedly working on Siri stand-alone speaker with HomeKit integration" and then perhaps examine your statement, "we are all here reading serious reporting..." when it was YOU who was the first to broach the "anti-4K" subject in this thread, when there was nothing of the sort to which you were replying)

    Instead, as it turns out this "serious conversation" for which you're here and supposedly supporting turns out to be the same old 4K crap over and over and over and over and over again. Remind me exactly what is being added to intelligent conversation that starts with the same old whines, points and arguments we've been reading since the ATV was launched a year ago, which all repeat the same whines of the launch of the ATV2 and 1080p a few short years ago, which all repeat the same whines of .... ? and on and on again.

    Finally, shame on both of us for boring the hell out of all other readers of this thread for this disgusting public spat, readers who most likely long ago left this thread, I apologise (to them), and also for the 4K diarrhoea which continues to spew in these forums. I look forward to the day 4K is supported by Apple only to be replaced by the next tech Apple will undoubtedly fail to incorporate into their devices, launching a whole new (by that I mean OLD) set of repeated arguments about Apple not supporting the latest tech in that device. Get in the queue prepared to defend those whiners, it's already filled with familiar and stale arguments ready to be presented as new yet again.
    Shame on both of us indeed.

    I'm sorry I didn't notice your earlier post.

    I'm not against the use of the work 'Fuck'. Its actually one of my favorite.

    My beef is with the hostility of your smack down. Suggesting our comments should be banished because they don't meet your standards is what bothers me. I feel any discussion of a future AppleTV is a fair place to discuss 4K. I'm sorry this upsets you. It's interesting to me.

    And I'm certainly not in favor of seriousness in regards to future Apple product fantasies.

    Anyway, long live 4K!


    Fair enough, and just so you know, it's upset me greatly to know you (specifically) are upset, I always like your posts and I'm sorry you and I had any issues at all.
    polymnia
  • Reply 51 of 58
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,080member
    polymnia said:
    polymnia said:
    Yes, good-natured ribbing. That's exactly how I describe it. You might notice the lack of swearing and personal insults. That is one of the tell-tale signs of good-natured discussion. Also a redirection tactic, trying to steer our discussion back to a more civil tone.

    I am anxiously awaiting your insightful comments on the article.

    At first I considered reporting your angry comments to the moderators, but I'd prefer to let them stand here as a testament to your unpleasantness.

    Quick reality check: You do realize we are all here reading serious reporting of unannounced, rumored Apple products of the future, reading the tea leaves that the AI staff diligently uncovers for our consideration. We are a bunch of (mostly) grown (mostly) men who are discussing our Apple tech fantasies with each other. I try to remember those facts while reading and commenting in this imaginative, insightful (inciteful?) and absurd community.

    I'm game for reading any Apple tech fantasy you care to indulge yourself in.

    I'm not here to be cursed by anyone.

    For what it's worth, I sill feel the next AppleTV (which is what this article speculates this filing might describe) should be a 4K unit. I think the time is right. Apple sells 4 different iPhone models that capture 4K video now. So if the studios don't have 4K content yet, there are untold millions of iPhone 6s and iPhone 7 owners who may be producing that content themselves as we speak.
    You can describe things any way you want, but that doesn't make them right or real. You can claim offence too by throwing yourself in front of some imagined stream of invective, but that doesn't mean it's real to anyone but your own very creative imagination. Claiming something doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you try. Your sensibilities are not my problem but yours, if AI has a problem with the word FUCK, they can ban it from use on the forum. Until then, it's a word, pure and simple. I never insulted you, I never threw it at you, I never called you names, I never attacked anyone (not anyone) personally (never any ad hominems), I'm very careful about that because it's the first step to kill discourse, no matter what you say or think on the subject. The audacity to claim victim status in a post laden with such self-righteousness and patronisation. Rolling eyes is justified here.

    And, as it turns out, my first comment in this thread, on topic, as none of this entire conversation has been, I'll remind you, was this (in reference to the original article), "Perhaps something like an Amazon Echo, using Siri and incorporating Apple Pay (does this make sense?) for sites that don't integrate it on the web or alternatively a simple quick login to Apple Home??" (think about this comment as you read today's article, "Apple allegedly working on Siri stand-alone speaker with HomeKit integration" and then perhaps examine your statement, "we are all here reading serious reporting..." when it was YOU who was the first to broach the "anti-4K" subject in this thread, when there was nothing of the sort to which you were replying)

    Instead, as it turns out this "serious conversation" for which you're here and supposedly supporting turns out to be the same old 4K crap over and over and over and over and over again. Remind me exactly what is being added to intelligent conversation that starts with the same old whines, points and arguments we've been reading since the ATV was launched a year ago, which all repeat the same whines of the launch of the ATV2 and 1080p a few short years ago, which all repeat the same whines of .... ? and on and on again.

    Finally, shame on both of us for boring the hell out of all other readers of this thread for this disgusting public spat, readers who most likely long ago left this thread, I apologise (to them), and also for the 4K diarrhoea which continues to spew in these forums. I look forward to the day 4K is supported by Apple only to be replaced by the next tech Apple will undoubtedly fail to incorporate into their devices, launching a whole new (by that I mean OLD) set of repeated arguments about Apple not supporting the latest tech in that device. Get in the queue prepared to defend those whiners, it's already filled with familiar and stale arguments ready to be presented as new yet again.
    Shame on both of us indeed.

    I'm sorry I didn't notice your earlier post.

    I'm not against the use of the work 'Fuck'. Its actually one of my favorite.

    My beef is with the hostility of your smack down. Suggesting our comments should be banished because they don't meet your standards is what bothers me. I feel any discussion of a future AppleTV is a fair place to discuss 4K. I'm sorry this upsets you. It's interesting to me.

    And I'm certainly not in favor of seriousness in regards to future Apple product fantasies.

    Anyway, long live 4K!


    Fair enough, and just so you know, it's upset me greatly to know you (specifically) are upset, I always like your posts and I'm sorry you and I had any issues at all.
    No hard feelings. Let us agree to allow each other to prattle on about what's interesting to us. You won't get any trouble from me. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 52 of 58
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    But NFC... I wonder if they're making an Apple Pay terminal to ship off to shops? That would speed up adoption
    Think bigger. Imagine using Apple Pay to buy products from impulse pay shopping channels (think "The Shopping Channel") , Pay for your pizza delivery, and so forth.

    Now apply that everywhere you see Square right now.

    The RS485 aspect makes me think that maybe Apple wants to be able to connect it to "next generation" home automation. Think about lighting systems used in large spaces. They don't run the electrical power through one switch, that would melt the metal. Rather there is low-voltage wiring that connects to relays located at the light itself to flip those lights on and off. 

    Example
    http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/032120a.pdf

    Now look at their current residential offerings
    http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Residential-Commercial-Solutions/Pages/Residential-Solutions/WholeHomeSolutions.aspx

    In a sense, if it can connect to RS-485, it can replace the "bridge" device needed currently.
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 53 of 58
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Very first post was about 4K.<sigh> Do we really have to revisit the 4K issue every time anything related to the ATV is discussed? Hasn't it already been discussed to death? These posts merely revisit the same points again and again and again. Don't take this to mean I don't like 4K, I have nothing against it (though its proponents drive me fucking batty!), the thing is: nothing new is being added to the discussion that hasn't already been said myriad times in forums across the internet.

    Back in the day on MacRumors every single discussion thread that covered any potential new product, there was a vocal subset that rushed into the thread to be the first to post, "What about the Mac Pro?!" even when it had nothing to do with desktops or anything remotely related to a Mac Pro.

    Once 4K is supported by Apple and the new 4K ATV is launched, then the same crowd will be back demanding 8K or whatever the latest new resolution or specification is on the horizon, filling the threads with the same (exactly the same) discussion about Apple being behind the times, blah, blah, blah. To even suggest this issue be put to rest invites a label of "4K hater." The repetition is old and the discourse is stale.
    1) LOL Your comment against 4K on the Apple TV is much longer than every other post wishing for it, combined.

    2) Since the iPhone has been able to take 4K videos for several generations and TVs have had low-cost UHD sets on the market for many years, it's not unreasonable to want an Apple TV capable of outputting 2160p. No, people won't want an 8K Apple TV as soon a 4K is available. That'll happen when the iPhone can take 8K video.
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 54 of 58
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member

    zroger73 said:
    The RS485 communication wiring is a clue here. Perhaps this is a hub/bridge for smart home technology? An Apple TV doesn't have or need a 2-wire communication protocol.
    That's my thought, but a thermostat? I'm not so sure.

    Note: This wouldn't be the first time Apple sent a product through the FCC that didn't get released.

  • Reply 55 of 58
     Not sure why WilliamLondon and others think 4K is so long off. I got into it with him already. Pissing and moaning every time somone makes a suggestion that 4K would be a welcome addition for playback support are the only ones who make the discussion a drag. It's funny how somone mentions something innocuous like 4K and people like WL get their panties in a bunch. Relax bro. You don't have to buy into it. 

    That said, you can buy allot of content in 4K. Just search Amazon and you'll see that the major releases are available in 4K. Star Trek, Star Wars, Deadpool, War Craft, Bourne, Mad Max etc etc.  Content availability isn't the problem one might think at this point. Sure not everything will be 4K but I don't think everything has to be. It wasn't that way when 1080 first came around.  Apple just hasn't offered it up yet as a digital download. I'm sure they have just been waiting for Tv's to get into consumer hands and content to ramp up. That time is close, so I don't think hating on people who would like 4K support to go along with their shiny new TV's are being asses. That's the wrong attitude. Looking at you WilliamLondon. Not unlike others, I'll be happy to see some juicy 4K content get released. The color improvement alone is reason enough, even if 1089 resolution is sufficient for a viewer. 
    You realize that all of the movies you listed except for Star Wars: The Force awakens were not even shot in 4K.  All of those films except for Star Wars (shot on film) were shot on the Arri Alexa which has a 3.4K sensor.  4K isn't all that important.  What is important is HDR and other expanded color spaces (Dolby Vision etc.) but those can come with 1080 as well.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 56 of 58
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
     Not sure why WilliamLondon and others think 4K is so long off. I got into it with him already. Pissing and moaning every time somone makes a suggestion that 4K would be a welcome addition for playback support are the only ones who make the discussion a drag. It's funny how somone mentions something innocuous like 4K and people like WL get their panties in a bunch. Relax bro. You don't have to buy into it. 

    That said, you can buy allot of content in 4K. Just search Amazon and you'll see that the major releases are available in 4K. Star Trek, Star Wars, Deadpool, War Craft, Bourne, Mad Max etc etc.  Content availability isn't the problem one might think at this point. Sure not everything will be 4K but I don't think everything has to be. It wasn't that way when 1080 first came around.  Apple just hasn't offered it up yet as a digital download. I'm sure they have just been waiting for Tv's to get into consumer hands and content to ramp up. That time is close, so I don't think hating on people who would like 4K support to go along with their shiny new TV's are being asses. That's the wrong attitude. Looking at you WilliamLondon. Not unlike others, I'll be happy to see some juicy 4K content get released. The color improvement alone is reason enough, even if 1089 resolution is sufficient for a viewer. 
    You realize that all of the movies you listed except for Star Wars: The Force awakens were not even shot in 4K.  All of those films except for Star Wars (shot on film) were shot on the Arri Alexa which has a 3.4K sensor.  4K isn't all that important.  What is important is HDR and other expanded color spaces (Dolby Vision etc.) but those can come with 1080 as well.
    You say they weren't shot in 2160p/4K which makes a UHDTV useless, but then you know they were shot 3.4K which is considerably higher than 1080p. Sure, we all know HDR is great, but more pixels so we have a larger set without losing pixel density is also very, very helpful. The notion that I an 80" TV looks the same in 1080p as 2160p in a normal living room setup is ridiculous.
  • Reply 57 of 58
    Soli said:
     Not sure why WilliamLondon and others think 4K is so long off. I got into it with him already. Pissing and moaning every time somone makes a suggestion that 4K would be a welcome addition for playback support are the only ones who make the discussion a drag. It's funny how somone mentions something innocuous like 4K and people like WL get their panties in a bunch. Relax bro. You don't have to buy into it. 

    That said, you can buy allot of content in 4K. Just search Amazon and you'll see that the major releases are available in 4K. Star Trek, Star Wars, Deadpool, War Craft, Bourne, Mad Max etc etc.  Content availability isn't the problem one might think at this point. Sure not everything will be 4K but I don't think everything has to be. It wasn't that way when 1080 first came around.  Apple just hasn't offered it up yet as a digital download. I'm sure they have just been waiting for Tv's to get into consumer hands and content to ramp up. That time is close, so I don't think hating on people who would like 4K support to go along with their shiny new TV's are being asses. That's the wrong attitude. Looking at you WilliamLondon. Not unlike others, I'll be happy to see some juicy 4K content get released. The color improvement alone is reason enough, even if 1089 resolution is sufficient for a viewer. 
    You realize that all of the movies you listed except for Star Wars: The Force awakens were not even shot in 4K.  All of those films except for Star Wars (shot on film) were shot on the Arri Alexa which has a 3.4K sensor.  4K isn't all that important.  What is important is HDR and other expanded color spaces (Dolby Vision etc.) but those can come with 1080 as well.
    You say they weren't shot in 2160p/4K which makes a UHDTV useless, but then you know they were shot 3.4K which is considerably higher than 1080p. Sure, we all know HDR is great, but more pixels so we have a larger set without losing pixel density is also very, very helpful. The notion that I an 80" TV looks the same in 1080p as 2160p in a normal living room setup is ridiculous.
    Most of the movies that were listed had a 2K Digital Intermediate.  So they were brought down to 2K resolution during the post production process to make the master DI.  In fact Bourne and Mad Max were shot 2.8K on different versions of the Alexa.

    Most of the movies we see in theaters still are projected from a 2K master.  So I really don't think 4K is all that important.

    I own a 4K TV that I bought for its HDR capabilities (Wanted to cheaply be able to view HDR content that I shoot).  And I can say at a normal viewing distance 4K content and 1080p content is very similar especially when streamed.  The bitrate differences alone make the 1080 footage actually usually look cleaner (less compression artifacts, noise in the shadows, etc.).  Of course my set is only a 65 inch not an 80 inch you are talking about.

    I've watched 8K prototype projections in both Rec.709 and Rec.2020 and at even 8K in Rec.709 the images are not that special.  But in Rec.2020 the images have an almost 3 dimensional quality to it.

    So I assert that resolution at this point is not actually that important.  I do think HDR is super important.  

    The gold standard in Hollywood is still the Arri Alexa, even though there are cameras from other companies that shoot 8K now.  The reason for this is that there is so much more to the quality of an image than resolution (dynamic range, noise, highland roll off, black detail, shutter artifacts, lens sharpness etc.). In fact many cinematographers use diffusion filtration in front of the lens even HD cameras to get rid of that sharp edge in order to make images more cinematic. 

    4K content is not really available because of this aside from Netflix and Amazon's 4K offerings (they mandate their shows be captured in 4K and have a 4K DI).  But then we come back to the compression issue when the content is delivered to our sets.

    I would rather have higher bitrate 1080p images on a TV than the same bitrate 4K images.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 58 of 58
    polymniapolymnia Posts: 1,080member
    Soli said:
     Not sure why WilliamLondon and others think 4K is so long off. I got into it with him already. Pissing and moaning every time somone makes a suggestion that 4K would be a welcome addition for playback support are the only ones who make the discussion a drag. It's funny how somone mentions something innocuous like 4K and people like WL get their panties in a bunch. Relax bro. You don't have to buy into it. 

    That said, you can buy allot of content in 4K. Just search Amazon and you'll see that the major releases are available in 4K. Star Trek, Star Wars, Deadpool, War Craft, Bourne, Mad Max etc etc.  Content availability isn't the problem one might think at this point. Sure not everything will be 4K but I don't think everything has to be. It wasn't that way when 1080 first came around.  Apple just hasn't offered it up yet as a digital download. I'm sure they have just been waiting for Tv's to get into consumer hands and content to ramp up. That time is close, so I don't think hating on people who would like 4K support to go along with their shiny new TV's are being asses. That's the wrong attitude. Looking at you WilliamLondon. Not unlike others, I'll be happy to see some juicy 4K content get released. The color improvement alone is reason enough, even if 1089 resolution is sufficient for a viewer. 
    You realize that all of the movies you listed except for Star Wars: The Force awakens were not even shot in 4K.  All of those films except for Star Wars (shot on film) were shot on the Arri Alexa which has a 3.4K sensor.  4K isn't all that important.  What is important is HDR and other expanded color spaces (Dolby Vision etc.) but those can come with 1080 as well.
    You say they weren't shot in 2160p/4K which makes a UHDTV useless, but then you know they were shot 3.4K which is considerably higher than 1080p. Sure, we all know HDR is great, but more pixels so we have a larger set without losing pixel density is also very, very helpful. The notion that I an 80" TV looks the same in 1080p as 2160p in a normal living room setup is ridiculous.
    Most of the movies that were listed had a 2K Digital Intermediate.  So they were brought down to 2K resolution during the post production process to make the master DI.  In fact Bourne and Mad Max were shot 2.8K on different versions of the Alexa.

    Most of the movies we see in theaters still are projected from a 2K master.  So I really don't think 4K is all that important.

    I own a 4K TV that I bought for its HDR capabilities (Wanted to cheaply be able to view HDR content that I shoot).  And I can say at a normal viewing distance 4K content and 1080p content is very similar especially when streamed.  The bitrate differences alone make the 1080 footage actually usually look cleaner (less compression artifacts, noise in the shadows, etc.).  Of course my set is only a 65 inch not an 80 inch you are talking about.

    I've watched 8K prototype projections in both Rec.709 and Rec.2020 and at even 8K in Rec.709 the images are not that special.  But in Rec.2020 the images have an almost 3 dimensional quality to it.

    So I assert that resolution at this point is not actually that important.  I do think HDR is super important.  

    The gold standard in Hollywood is still the Arri Alexa, even though there are cameras from other companies that shoot 8K now.  The reason for this is that there is so much more to the quality of an image than resolution (dynamic range, noise, highland roll off, black detail, shutter artifacts, lens sharpness etc.). In fact many cinematographers use diffusion filtration in front of the lens even HD cameras to get rid of that sharp edge in order to make images more cinematic. 

    4K content is not really available because of this aside from Netflix and Amazon's 4K offerings (they mandate their shows be captured in 4K and have a 4K DI).  But then we come back to the compression issue when the content is delivered to our sets.

    I would rather have higher bitrate 1080p images on a TV than the same bitrate 4K images.
    I've made this point in other discussions on the topic:

    the odds that anyone is going to increase the quality of their 1080p streams for existing streaming service tiers seems pretty remote.

    I produce content for a living and completely understand your argument. My work is mostly still imagery, but the same compression, dynamic range and resolution variables are in play there. for example, I'd prefer a high dynamic range JPG with lots of shadow & highlight headroom over a doubled resolution TIFF image with clipped shadows & highlights.

    sure, improving the 1080p deliverable is technically possible, if done cleverly it's probably technically preferable, but what is the Marketing department going to do with that?

    It seems to me that the way we are going to get HDR as consumers is via 4K streams. All the technical reasons you point out would justify delivering HDR in 1080p, but the MARKETABLE product that will make HDR available to the masses will be 4K.

    Not related specifically to your comments on the pixel resolution of cameras, but pointing out the benefit of more pixels, more generally is this: Being a still image designer, I have an affinity for graphics, which is a place where 4K shines, in either HDR or crappy-DR. I am looking forward to a day when the graphics on my TV have the same Retina appearance I've come to love on my Apple devices.

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