Google's Pixel XL priced like Apple's iPhone 7 Plus, but it lacks numerous key features

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  • Reply 41 of 190
    koopkoop Posts: 337member
    qwwera said:
    koop said:
    I think people here aren't going to like this, but iOS/Siri is more of a liability for Apple than it's ever been since the first iPhone. Pixel is basically trying to sell itself on software and artificial intelligence. They are selling this as their A.I. phone. You can giggle about the spec wars, but you're missing the big picture that Google has surpassed Apple in software years ago, and Google is going to drive their "information" advantage into a hardware war that wont be about who has the faster CPU or most RAM. 

    I can only imagine in 2030 it's really about what company has the bigger server farms, artificial neural networking and machine learning algorithms that determines which product makes consumers lives the easiest. Not some display resolution or wide color gamut. 

    Google has the long game here. We're still figuring out what Apple has besides their phone at this point.
    You're imagining a world where everyone stops working except Google.
    The truth is that Google is far better at services. But Android itself is a major liability. Who in their right mind would spend what the Pixel costs with not just inferior specs, but running the liability that is Android. From a purely value equation, a consumer is risking their privacy, risk malware, and risk a purchase that will most likely not be kept up to date and abandoned in a a few short years as precedent has shown. And all in an uglier package.

    Google is fantastic at services and will no doubt continue to exceed in that, but the vessels to their services in Android is a major problem. No amount of specs in hardware or free services will offset that fact for people who are willing to pay for a premium product. It HAS to be a premium product to have a premium asking price. 

    And those great Google service are also available in a truly premium product like the iPhone. So again, who in their right mind would pay a premium price for a second rate product? 
    As long as any device runs Android it is not a premium product, it will always be a second rate product. Look at Samsung, a company truly able to compete hardware wise with Apple, ...but their Galaxy line no matter how great their hardware, are always seen as second rate to the iPhone for that very fact. That it runs a second rate software. A shiny package can't change that.

    Android looks destined to be an OS for a low margin, low cost commodity gadget than what Samsung or the Pixel pretend it to be.
    Users aren't risking malware with a Pixel device. I would encourage you to research their Nexus line of devices to get an idea of how frequently Google updates *their* devices. (monthly security updates for one). Privacy is another matter, and it's a gamble both Apple and Google has taken on both ends of the spectrum. The biggest question in the future of tech is just how willing customers are to give up information in return for more useful services.

    I think we have a different interpretation of 2 years of guaranteed updates being short. Not as long as Apple, but not short.

    We just have to disagree on Android being a second rate product. I'm reading into you saying that because iOS is exclusive to a phone, and Android is not, that the Pixel phone can not be considered a premium product. I think that interpretation is shallow as well. 

    I would listen to Sundar Pichai's at the beginning of the Pixel announcement to get some idea of why Google decided to release their own branded device. 

    I would also stress that Google Assistant will likely never be built into an iPhone in any meaningful way, just like Google Now isn't. Not until Apple opens up the ability to switch default voice assistant that also attaches to different APIs, until Apple is willing to let Google talk to different services, as well as replace functions Apple has under lock and key, they will continue making devices with their vision for information delivery and artificial intelligence.






    sonic2hidesingularitycropr
  • Reply 42 of 190
    The iPhone 7 Plus runs ios 11? That's pretty neat!
  • Reply 43 of 190
    qwweraqwwera Posts: 280member
    gilly33 said:
    qwwera said:
    The main things Android and the Pixel have to prove is that their phones will not need to be physically reset constantly when apps or hardware cause the device to freeze. That was my main problem when I was on Verizon before the iPhone was launched on the network.

    The second thing that it needs to prove, is that it three short years later the latest Android version will be made available to run on it. Again as a former Android user, that was a major factor in forgetting Android, just as Android and device makers forgot you as soon as you bought their handset. You were abandoned immediately as a concern to them as soon as you were suckered into buying.

    Third, is safety. Android has a major malware and privacy  problem that doesn't seem to have a solution or even seems to be a concern to Android.

    So there you have it. The problem with the Pixel or any other Android device is Android itself.

    The Pixel has fail written all over it as you can get a far cheaper device running Android with equal specs. 
    For Android and the Pixel to not be seen as a second rate OS, it has to stop being a second rate OS.
    Same reason I left Android as well. Got forgotten with updates and told by Motorola l have to get their newest phone at the time. Of course a pure Android phone should not have that problem but not going back. 
    Me neither. And i can see how Motorola phones as well as other Android phones suffered while Samsung is still going at it. Of all the Android phones I ever owned, the Samsung ones were the only ones I ever felt pleased with. Reviewers at the time liked to pick on their skins, but reviewers never had to keep and live with an Android device for more than the week they were reviewing it. And word of mouth, rather than reviews by god-knows-who at CNet or whatever is what got Samsung where it is today.
    Battery explosions aside, if I had to return to Android it would be a no brainer to go back to a Samsung rather than the Google branded HTC Pixel. 
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 44 of 190
    rich88rich88 Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    While this article raises valid points, imo it loses credibility by not even mentioning the major selling points mentioned in the launch:
    1. Google Assistant built-in
    2. Free unlimited Google Photos storage 
    3. Daydream VR
    4. Battery fast-charging 7h in 15m
    sonic2hidesingularity
  • Reply 45 of 190
    I was actually surprized when I tried to snap a picture of a flower with my iPhone. The flower had petals of that purple-blueish color, which normally gets displayed wrongly even on a professional level of equipment (like Nikon DXXX level cameras). But because CM was followed through and through, the color of the actual flower and its image were quite close. Calibrated devices, along with a working CM pipeline, is what really allows you to use a screen to its full potential.
    There has been and AFAIK always will be an art to capturing the right colour for purple/blue flowers. Back in the days of film, I could do it on Fujiromech but not Ektachrome because of the different colour balance (viz temperature) of the film. Fuji with its emphasis on green got the blues right but over saturated because that was... well, that was Fuji slide film through and through.
    The Kodak film actually captured things right but not as we have been led/fooled to believe.
    IMHO and as a Nikon D700/D800/D5/D500 and a few other bodies over the years can testify is that the colour is captured pretty well 100 Accurate but we hate how it looks because we are more used to seeing overstaturated green biased images g sort of like what you see with a Samsung TV. Put is alongsides a Sony Bravia and you will see what I mean.
    Colour accuracy outside the lab is a subjective thing. You like what you like because you have been fooled by what you have seen over the years.
    That reminds me of a great song, 'Won't get Fooled Again'.
    It took me a long time to realise what was going on.
    My iPhone 7 does what you say it does. In my mind, it is faithfully recording the colours although it looks like shite.
    You can have a great looking image or an accurate one. Take your pick and if that is the compelling reason to buy Samsung etc then go do it. any other choice will keep you moaning.

  • Reply 46 of 190
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,788member
    john.b said:
    2016 price with 2015 specs...

    Where do you see 2015 Specs?
    More like 2013 specs really.

    Fandroid trolls used to mindlessly copy/paste specs and benchmark results.
    (Remember the good old "Your wife will love the dual-core Tegra 2 chipset" days?)
    For a while this gave them an air of objectivity.

    Now fandroid trolls can only lash out in irrational denial.  
    iPhone crushes all Android phones in specs / benchmarks / experience / design / camera / quality.
    Not to mention battery flammability.

    Oh, and yes, the occasional fandroid troll squeals about iPhone colors and design nitpicks.
    S/he fixates on one little thing (e.g. no more audio jack) and tries to turn it into a "-gate."
    Pitiful really.  I would feel sorry for her/him, but no.  S/he is doing it to herself/himself.
    edited October 2016 pscooter63brucemcicoco3chiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 190
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,247member
    sog35 said:
    An article written by a true Apple fanboy.   

    Wide color gamut is not a feature - If the screen is beautiful, the screen is beautiful.  Nobody cares about wide color gamut.
    Actually, the end result (lack of result, that is) is in the fact that Android doesn't know how to handle color management...without which a "beautiful screen" isn't gonna help, sadly. 
    In the absense of the aforementioned CM, sRGB colors, placed in P3 color space will be oversaturated and incorrect.
    And, despite what you said, wide gamut along with high contrast and enought color bit depth should bring more realistic colors to PEDs, hence it is not a gimmick.

    I was actually surprized when I tried to snap a picture of a flower with my iPhone. The flower had petals of that purple-blueish color, which normally gets displayed wrongly even on a professional level of equipment (like Nikon DXXX level cameras). But because CM was followed through and through, the color of the actual flower and its image were quite close. Calibrated devices, along with a working CM pipeline, is what really allows you to use a screen to its full potential.
    I get it.  For purists, accurate color is very important.  For the majority of phone owners, I would suspect though, are more interested in colors that pop and are vivid.   People love the iPhone screens because it looks nice.  Never once have I heard people say "wow those colors look really accurate!". Usually it's more along the lines of "that's a GORGEOUS screen."  Gorgeous typically means vivid, bright, and poppy.  Also, do you really think that in a world in which Instagram users are posting photos that are filtered to oblivion that they would care about real world color accuracy?
    But where it does make a HUGE difference is skin tone. That is where you need GREAT color accuracy... Without perfect color calibration photo's of people will always look a little alien.
    BS.  My photography and imaging gear is color-corrected and calibrated to the hilt, and recalibrated on a regular monthly basis, but I quite frequently and purposefully alter skin tones in portraits in order to please the person sitting for them. So do millions of Apple smartphone users who modify their own pics to get what they believe is a nicer image than the one their phone took.  

    I'm not at all downplaying the advantages of calibrated color, makes my job so much easier, but a person's "true-to-life and accurate skin tone" is often what they DON'T want. Pleasing skin-tones really can be rendered by default settings on a good but non-calibrated smartphone camera. With that said kudos to Apple for making color-calibration a priority, tho even there the skin-tones are all over the place being very dependent on reflected/ambient lighting. Just look at the images over at the iMore camera test you viewed yesterday. There's no consistency. 
    http://www.imore.com/best-smartphone-camera
    edited October 2016 sonic2hide
  • Reply 48 of 190
    Snooter23Snooter23 Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Who knew that the iphone 7 plus had iOS 11 already...
  • Reply 49 of 190
    HaibaneHaibane Posts: 20unconfirmed, member
    Lets see... so you're posting misinformation on at least two things.
    Its 4GB not 3GB.
    It does have OIS, in fact they spent a significant amount of time on that feature.
    As a user of both phones, I find this to be a very difficult choice between the two.
    You should really double check your sources cause they are wrong.
  • Reply 50 of 190
    RedPanda said:
    RedPanda said:
    The issue from what I understand is more that Android requires more power and doesn't have the same unity between hardware and software as iOS. Though anyone who's used both high end Apple and Android phones should be able to tell you that there's no real discernible difference. 


    I've used both at the high end and there is a discernible difference.
    calikevin kee
  • Reply 51 of 190
    Wow, the Google apologists are out in force, even some newbies, come to throw a bag of flaming shit in the room and make a dash for the nearest exit.
    pscooter63nolamacguycalikevin keebaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 190
    HaibaneHaibane Posts: 20unconfirmed, member
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    An article written by a true Apple fanboy.   

    Wide color gamut is not a feature - If the screen is beautiful, the screen is beautiful.  Nobody cares about wide color gamut.
    Actually, the end result (lack of result, that is) is in the fact that Android doesn't know how to handle color management...without which a "beautiful screen" isn't gonna help, sadly. 
    In the absense of the aforementioned CM, sRGB colors, placed in P3 color space will be oversaturated and incorrect.
    And, despite what you said, wide gamut along with high contrast and enought color bit depth should bring more realistic colors to PEDs, hence it is not a gimmick.

    I was actually surprized when I tried to snap a picture of a flower with my iPhone. The flower had petals of that purple-blueish color, which normally gets displayed wrongly even on a professional level of equipment (like Nikon DXXX level cameras). But because CM was followed through and through, the color of the actual flower and its image were quite close. Calibrated devices, along with a working CM pipeline, is what really allows you to use a screen to its full potential.
    I get it.  For purists, accurate color is very important.  For the majority of phone owners, I would suspect though, are more interested in colors that pop and are vivid.   People love the iPhone screens because it looks nice.  Never once have I heard people say "wow those colors look really accurate!". Usually it's more along the lines of "that's a GORGEOUS screen."  Gorgeous typically means vivid, bright, and poppy.  Also, do you really think that in a world in which Instagram users are posting photos that are filtered to oblivion that they would care about real world color accuracy?
    But where it does make a HUGE difference is skin tone. That is where you need GREAT color accuracy... Without perfect color calibration photo's of people will always look a little alien.
    BS.  My photography and imaging gear is color-corrected and calibrated to the hilt, and recalibrated on a regular monthly basis, but I quite frequently and purposefully alter skin tones in portraits in order to please the person sitting for them. So do millions of Apple smartphone users who modify their own pics to get what they believe is a nicer image than the one their phone took.  

    I'm not at all downplaying the advantages of calibrated color, makes my job so much easier, but a person's "true-to-life and accurate skin tone" is often what they DON'T want. Pleasing skin-tones really can be rendered by default settings on a good but non-calibrated smartphone camera. With that said kudos to Apple for making color-calibration a priority. 
    As a photographer, I have never found the iphone color calibrated. The very fact that you can calibrate an android and not an iphone shows this point. Also I know plenty of people that had green shaded screens over the years. Not every iphone is going to roll out looking correctly, and it should be adjustable.
  • Reply 53 of 190
    HaibaneHaibane Posts: 20unconfirmed, member
    Wow, the Google apologists are out in force, even some newbies, come to throw a bag of flaming shit in the room and make a dash for the nearest exit.
    Look if the article wasn't full of misinformation I wouldn't care. Both devices are solid, but post the facts.
    singularitysonic2hide
  • Reply 54 of 190
    HaibaneHaibane Posts: 20unconfirmed, member
    RedPanda said:
    RedPanda said:
    The issue from what I understand is more that Android requires more power and doesn't have the same unity between hardware and software as iOS. Though anyone who's used both high end Apple and Android phones should be able to tell you that there's no real discernible difference. 


    I've used both at the high end and there is a discernible difference.
    For me, they both have their strong points. The android phones I have had vastly outperform my iphones with less crashes, but the iphones have much better group integration between all devices.
    singularity
  • Reply 55 of 190
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member
    koop said:
    I think people here aren't going to like this, but iOS/Siri is more of a liability for Apple than it's ever been since the first iPhone. Pixel is basically trying to sell itself on software and artificial intelligence. They are selling this as their A.I. phone. You can giggle about the spec wars, but you're missing the big picture that Google has surpassed Apple in software years ago, and Google is going to drive their "information" advantage into a hardware war that wont be about who has the faster CPU or most RAM. 

    I can only imagine in 2030 it's really about what company has the bigger server farms, artificial neural networking and machine learning algorithms that determines which product makes consumers lives the easiest. Not some display resolution or wide color gamut. 

    Google has the long game here. We're still figuring out what Apple has besides their phone at this point.
    uhh what does google have besides ads? apple's non-iphone revenue is larger than many industry players. 
    edited October 2016 williamlondonDeelronchiacalibaconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 190
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member

    Mark22 said:
    The decision between the iPhone 7 and the Pixel really comes down to software. I just ordered a Pixel XL because I prefer Android, because I like the VR support, and because I prefer Google's online services to Apple's. I also like the USB C support and the standard headphone jack. Whether one phone is a bit faster than the other doesn't really matter to me. 
    you say hardware but then cite 4 hardware items. hmm. 
    caliRayz2016watto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 190
    nolamacguynolamacguy Posts: 4,758member

    Mark22 said:
    sog35 said:
    RedPanda said:
    As noted, the Pixel has 4GB of RAM. It also doesn't have a weak processor. It may or may not be weaker than the A10 Fusion, but it's just about the best mobile processor available outside that (at least on paper). The issue from what I understand is more that Android requires more power and doesn't have the same unity between hardware and software as iOS. Though anyone who's used both high end Apple and Android phones should be able to tell you that there's no real discernible difference. Benchmarking scores are all well and good, but when a phone instantly does everything you want it to the differences are irrelevant. It also has some features the iPhone 7 doesn't have. That said, it is over-priced. The iPhone 7 / 7 Plus are too, but the Apple brand is big enough to support the pricing, I'm not sure Google (as a hardware brand) is.
    This is not true.

    The current king of Android speed S7 got absolutely demolished by the iPhone7 in real world tests.

    It took the S7 3 minutes and 14 seconds.
    It took the Iphone7 only 1 minute and 40 seconds.



    Those are significant real world differences.

    That benchmark mostly seems to measure starting up a lot of applications. That's certainly not a CPU benchmark. Android generally launches apps slower, but it's not clear that that matters, given how rarely people start up apps on Android.

    rewatch the video -- it was in use the apps that got samsung lapped. 
    caliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 190
    koop said:
    I think people here aren't going to like this, but iOS/Siri is more of a liability for Apple than it's ever been since the first iPhone. Pixel is basically trying to sell itself on software and artificial intelligence. They are selling this as their A.I. phone. You can giggle about the spec wars, but you're missing the big picture that Google has surpassed Apple in software years ago, and Google is going to drive their "information" advantage into a hardware war that wont be about who has the faster CPU or most RAM. 

    I can only imagine in 2030 it's really about what company has the bigger server farms, artificial neural networking and machine learning algorithms that determines which product makes consumers lives the easiest. Not some display resolution or wide color gamut. 

    Google has the long game here. We're still figuring out what Apple has besides their phone at this point.
    uhh what does google have besides ads? apple's non-iphone revenue is larger than many industry players. 
    That's the secret feature at the core of all of Google's products (the monetisation of one's privacy), without it none of them would even exist and yet it's not touted it's never mentioned and none of the apologists ever even acknowledge it. At most you'll get an, "I've no problem with it" statement, but no one ever claims it as their number one feature they search for in new products. You'd think something so important to Google would feature higher in people's wish list of functionality in new devices, strange, isn't it?! What people will sell of themselves and then claim some high ground in that choice is one of the mysteries of the modern era.
    caliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 190
    HaibaneHaibane Posts: 20unconfirmed, member
    koop said:
    I think people here aren't going to like this, but iOS/Siri is more of a liability for Apple than it's ever been since the first iPhone. Pixel is basically trying to sell itself on software and artificial intelligence. They are selling this as their A.I. phone. You can giggle about the spec wars, but you're missing the big picture that Google has surpassed Apple in software years ago, and Google is going to drive their "information" advantage into a hardware war that wont be about who has the faster CPU or most RAM. 

    I can only imagine in 2030 it's really about what company has the bigger server farms, artificial neural networking and machine learning algorithms that determines which product makes consumers lives the easiest. Not some display resolution or wide color gamut. 

    Google has the long game here. We're still figuring out what Apple has besides their phone at this point.
    uhh what does google have besides ads? apple's non-iphone revenue is larger than many industry players. 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Alphabet this for starters... Nest, Waze, Youtube, Boston Dynamics... or to break it down...

    Google home
    Google cast
    Pixel
    Nest Thermostat
    Nest Smoke detector
    Nest Cameras
    Waze- Arguably the best mapping service for traffic
    Youtube- Arguably the most watched streaming platform
    Boston Dynamics- Robotics

    Basically hitting some highlights here. Tons of other products though.
  • Reply 60 of 190
    qwweraqwwera Posts: 280member
    Haibane said:
    RedPanda said:
    RedPanda said:
    The issue from what I understand is more that Android requires more power and doesn't have the same unity between hardware and software as iOS. Though anyone who's used both high end Apple and Android phones should be able to tell you that there's no real discernible difference. 


    I've used both at the high end and there is a discernible difference.
    For me, they both have their strong points. The android phones I have had vastly outperform my iphones with less crashes, but the iphones have much better group integration between all devices.
    I've had the complete opposite. I don't know what Android phone you're talking about but Android phones are far more prone to crash and far less responsive.

    i will say that when it comes to Android phones, I have to say that the screens on the newer Samsung galaxy phones are gorgeous and their cameras do take fantastic photos. 
    But i wouldn't wish an Android phone on anyone unless they were on a really tight budget, ..and even then I would recommed a used iPhone 5s or an SE before having anyone buy and Android device. The 5s would probably outperform any new budget Android device. They would certainly have less headaches.
    edited October 2016 williamlondonnolamacguychiacaliwatto_cobra
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