To: lordjohnwhorfin
I have a Surface Pro 4 and it's a great laptop and a great tablet. The fact that I can use a pen to take notes at a meeting without clacking on a keyboard, or even needing a desk is extremely helpful. The fact that I can run x86 software and easily connect to an external monitor or wirelessly connect to a video projector or LCD TV is even more helpful. The SP4 is less weighty than a laptop and a tablet, it is less costly than a good laptop and a tablet that supports a digital stylus, and it is more convenient. At this point, I could not imagine myself being constrained by the limitations of using a laptop or a tablet when I can have the benefits of both in one device. And I absolutely cannot stand the limitations not having a touch capable screen.
To: lordjohnwhorfin
I have a Surface Pro 4 and it's a great laptop and a great tablet. The fact that I can use a pen to take notes at a meeting without clacking on a keyboard, or even needing a desk is extremely helpful. The fact that I can run x86 software and easily connect to an external monitor or wirelessly connect to a video projector or LCD TV is even more helpful. The SP4 is less weighty than a laptop and a tablet, it is less costly than a good laptop and a tablet that supports a digital stylus, and it is more convenient. At this point, I could not imagine myself being constrained by the limitations of using a laptop or a tablet when I can have the benefits of both in one device. And I absolutely cannot stand the limitations not having a touch capable screen.
Readers of these results need to stop living in the past. Microsoft is not the arch enemy/competitor of Apple anymore. Google is. The Surface is really a Microsoft PC competing against other PCs like Lenovo Yoga, etc. Their big wins are in cloud computing where Apple does not really play. They still have a huge, but declining legacy OS revenue stream and Office still does well. The interesting business-market story is how far it can go in corporate desktop share leveraging its relationship and data from IBM rollouts (and new partnerships with Deloitte, SAP, etc).
Why is the Surface being compared to an iPad? Surface has a full blown OS and as can be seen in the first photo that's a Surface Book which is basically a touchscreen laptop with a keyboard that detaches. People who are buying Surface are not in the market for tablets but laptops. So really they should be compared to sales of other laptops and MacBooks.
Good question, because in most ads they compare it to a MacBook Air....because they know the iPad outsells it.
That being said, Apple has to figure out this iPad thing. Sales are falling every quarter and its to the point where the Mac sells half and much and brings in the same amount of revenue.
I sell you 2 pencils this year. I sell you 10 next year. Sales up 500%.
Or more specifically, you sell $672M worth of pencils same quarter last year and $926M this quarter and you have 38% growth. For comparison, Apple makes $4-5B a quarter from ipads so for a bit-part player, almost $1B in revenue and growing is not anything like selling 2 pencils. The big question is can they keep up growth? They sold $1.4B worth in the last calendar quarter 2015
Readers of these results need to stop living in the past. Microsoft is not the arch enemy/competitor of Apple anymore. Google is. The Surface is really a Microsoft PC competing against other PCs like Lenovo Yoga, etc. Their big wins are in cloud computing where Apple does not really play. They still have a huge, but declining legacy OS revenue stream and Office still does well. The interesting business-market story is how far it can go in corporate desktop share leveraging its relationship and data from IBM rollouts (and new partnerships with Deloitte, SAP, etc).
But Microsoft can't advertise against its own OEMs so all of the Surface and Windows advertising is squarely aimed at the Mac. Same with the Pixel phone. Google's target is Apple. It seems clear to me both Microsoft and Google have decided chasing the low end is a non starter so they're going to chase Apple at the high end. Panos Panay who oversees the Surface line at Microsoft has said he wakes up every day thinking about Apple. Microsoft is rumored to be introducing an AIO desktop next week. Guarantee you they're targeting the iMac. And with Apple letting the Mac Pro languish I'm sure Microsoft thinks they can steal share from Apple with creative pros (see link below).
"According to Microsoft's official numbers, Surface revenue came in at $926 million."
My back-of-the-envelope calculations assume a retail selling price of $926 per unit. That way, Microsoft's revenue figure translates into one-million Surface units sold: not anywhere near iPad sales, nor iPad Pro sales, either. If average Surface selling price is 25% higher than my assumed $926 figure, then Surface sales fell short of one million units.
In other news, Apple has sold large numbers of MacBooks and iPads to IBM in recent months, and a large share of those sales were likely attracted away from Microsoft's portable Surface. With Macs compared to PC's, IBM reports spending far less on internal support staff and achieving higher user satisfaction. That's why unit sales of Surface are lagging. A million units sold to diehard fans is easier than selling a second million units to customers without a Windows commitment.
Here's where Microsoft screwed up. Surface should have been targeted to enterprise first and let that penetrate down to consumers. If your company issues you a Surface computer and you really like it you might be more likely to buy one for the home. The reason most consumers have Windows computers at home is because they use Windows at work and it's the operating system they're most familiar with. The problem though is targeting the enterprise means directly competing with Windows OEMs. That's Microsoft's problem. How do you grow Surface without pissing off all your OEM partners.
Readers of these results need to stop living in the past. Microsoft is not the arch enemy/competitor of Apple anymore. Google is. The Surface is really a Microsoft PC competing against other PCs like Lenovo Yoga, etc. Their big wins are in cloud computing where Apple does not really play. They still have a huge, but declining legacy OS revenue stream and Office still does well. The interesting business-market story is how far it can go in corporate desktop share leveraging its relationship and data from IBM rollouts (and new partnerships with Deloitte, SAP, etc).
But Microsoft can't advertise against its own OEMs so all of the Surface and Windows advertising is squarely aimed at the Mac. Same with the Pixel phone. Google's target is Apple. It seems clear to me both Microsoft and Google have decided chasing the low end is a non starter so they're going to chase Apple at the high end. Panos Panay who oversees the Surface line at Microsoft has said he wakes up every day thinking about Apple. Microsoft is rumored to be introducing an AIO desktop next week. Guarantee you they're targeting the iMac. And with Apple letting the Mac Pro languish I'm sure Microsoft thinks they can steal share from Apple with creative pros (see link below).
Gee, if only Apple didn't have to wait for Intel to deliver a chipset and CPU supporting TB 3, which BTW, MS hasn't made available on Surface. Panay isn't going to gain Pro users without TB; it's the bandwidth, and Apple will have it next week, no thanks to Intel's delay in CPU's and chipsets.
As for the Mac Pro, I have no idea if it will be refreshed or when, but why the fuck are Pro's still pining for towers?
It is widely estimated that Microsoft sells about 1 million Surface devices per quarter. That is a far cry from the 10-15 million iPads + 4-5 million Macs sold per quarter.
AI - Do some basic research or come up with an estimate based on the revenue number and ASP
My girlfriend was given a MS tablet, not the latest SP4 so I can't speak for them, but she didn't like it and thought it cumbersome and I had to work on it adjusting/changing/fixing stuff and after a while I couldn't stand it (spoiled by my iPad Air and recently purchased iPad Air 2) so I gave her my older iPad Air and she took to it right away and has absolutely loved it since (her iPad is her go to home device abandoning the MS tablet and her Windows desktop completely - the MS tablet is kind of hidden on the bottom part of the coffee table gathering dust).
I've had 2 Windows and 2 Samsung phones through work (they don't have iPhones as a choice), currently went back to Windows phone with the 640 XL (not a Samsung fan). The windows phone is a POS --- OK for my work calls and texting and just OK photos (terrible low light adjustments both photos and video) but recurring, and I mean very much recurring, problems include nearly unusable when plugged in, random power downs, unfriendly IE browsing (screen movements, etc. - my much smaller 1 generation old iPod touch is much better using Safari), random IE closures, it loses about a second every couple/few days versus my "i" devices where I have to shut down to put it back in sync (the random power downs sometime take care of this for me so that's a plus!?), unreliable internet sharing (again, seem to need to shut down to clear it up), etc.
I've been using Windows devices for a long time for work/personal (not so much personal anymore) and made my living with Windows based software and I used to be very anti-Apple (late 90s to early 2000s) --- I remember going into an electronics store I think late 90s and having a feeling of disgust looking at the new colorful iMacs and their non-business looking icons. I'm embarrassed it took me so long to rid myself of my ignorance.
It should be noted that while Microsoft is making upward progress with Surface, Apple is still far ahead in terms of marketshare, unit sales and derived income.
But Apple is still doomed, right? Ever notice how an article like this one makes the trolls wriggle out of their wormholes to comment?
Readers of these results need to stop living in the past. Microsoft is not the arch enemy/competitor of Apple anymore. Google is. The Surface is really a Microsoft PC competing against other PCs like Lenovo Yoga, etc. Their big wins are in cloud computing where Apple does not really play. They still have a huge, but declining legacy OS revenue stream and Office still does well. The interesting business-market story is how far it can go in corporate desktop share leveraging its relationship and data from IBM rollouts (and new partnerships with Deloitte, SAP, etc).
But Microsoft can't advertise against its own OEMs so all of the Surface and Windows advertising is squarely aimed at the Mac. Same with the Pixel phone. Google's target is Apple. It seems clear to me both Microsoft and Google have decided chasing the low end is a non starter so they're going to chase Apple at the high end. Panos Panay who oversees the Surface line at Microsoft has said he wakes up every day thinking about Apple. Microsoft is rumored to be introducing an AIO desktop next week. Guarantee you they're targeting the iMac. And with Apple letting the Mac Pro languish I'm sure Microsoft thinks they can steal share from Apple with creative pros (see link below).
Gee, if only Apple didn't have to wait for Intel to deliver a chipset and CPU supporting TB 3, which BTW, MS hasn't made available on Surface. Panay isn't going to gain Pro users without TB; it's the bandwidth, and Apple will have it next week, no thanks to Intel's delay in CPU's and chipsets.
As for the Mac Pro, I have no idea if it will be refreshed or when, but why the fuck are Pro's still pining for towers?
All the laptops below support TB 3. Do MacBook Pro's use special chips that no one else does?
"According to Microsoft's official numbers, Surface revenue came in at $926 million."
My back-of-the-envelope calculations assume a retail selling price of $926 per unit. That way, Microsoft's revenue figure translates into one-million Surface units sold: not anywhere near iPad sales, nor iPad Pro sales, either. If average Surface selling price is 25% higher than my assumed $926 figure, then Surface sales fell short of one million units.
In other news, Apple has sold large numbers of MacBooks and iPads to IBM in recent months, and a large share of those sales were likely attracted away from Microsoft's portable Surface. With Macs compared to PC's, IBM reports spending far less on internal support staff and achieving higher user satisfaction. That's why unit sales of Surface are lagging. A million units sold to diehard fans is easier than selling a second million units to customers without a Windows commitment.
That is revenueas in money they made, they sold way more than 1 milliion pieces to make that kind of revenue!
Umm, revenue is not profit, dude. it is the cumulative amount of money they sold the machines for. The money they made, aka profit, is revenue - costs including interest.
It is widely estimated that Microsoft sells about 1 million Surface devices per quarter. That is a far cry from the 10-15 million iPads + 4-5 million Macs sold per quarter.
AI - Do some basic research or come up with an estimate based on the revenue number and ASP
Complete click-bait article
iPad comparison is dumb. Surface is a laptop period. You never see anyone using it without the keyboard attached or in portrait mode. Microsoft fanboys call it a tablet when they think it's a favorable comparison to iPad and a laptop when they think it's a favorable comparison to MacBook Air. Fact is it's not the best of either.
"According to Microsoft's official numbers, Surface revenue came in at $926 million."
My back-of-the-envelope calculations assume a retail selling price of $926 per unit. That way, Microsoft's revenue figure translates into one-million Surface units sold: not anywhere near iPad sales, nor iPad Pro sales, either. If average Surface selling price is 25% higher than my assumed $926 figure, then Surface sales fell short of one million units.
In other news, Apple has sold large numbers of MacBooks and iPads to IBM in recent months, and a large share of those sales were likely attracted away from Microsoft's portable Surface. With Macs compared to PC's, IBM reports spending far less on internal support staff and achieving higher user satisfaction. That's why unit sales of Surface are lagging. A million units sold to diehard fans is easier than selling a second million units to customers without a Windows commitment.
IBM partnership with Apple doesn't mean they are ignoring the Surface Pro line.
Looks like IBM is making solutions for Surface Pro / Windows 10, as it happen before with Apple. Could it be that later they become a reseller too, as Dell did?
And what Apple+IBM did in the enterprise looks nice, MS still dominating. As an example, DoD announce that will deploy Windows 10 in 3 million devices. And that's a single customer.
It is widely estimated that Microsoft sells about 1 million Surface devices per quarter. That is a far cry from the 10-15 million iPads + 4-5 million Macs sold per quarter.
AI - Do some basic research or come up with an estimate based on the revenue number and ASP
Complete click-bait article
iPad comparison is dumb. Surface is a laptop period. You never see anyone using it without the keyboard attached or in portrait mode. Microsoft fanboys call it a tablet when they think it's a favorable comparison to iPad and a laptop when they think it's a favorable comparison to MacBook Air. Fact is it's not the best of either.
Agreed. We have a few Surface Pro users at work, and you're exactly right. They are little laptops with a touch screen. Having said that, I've seen a few people using iPads at work exactly the same way. And they are both outnumbered by people just pulling out their MacBooks.
Comments
Market non-starter.
Like it's been this entire time.
Let's see how much the iPad made last qtr in the next week.
Surprised headline didn't read : Surface number 1 in 2-in-1 devices made by Microsoft
http://cdm.link/2016/09/apples-relationship-pro-music-needs-mending/
As for the Mac Pro, I have no idea if it will be refreshed or when, but why the fuck are Pro's still pining for towers?
AI - Do some basic research or come up with an estimate based on the revenue number and ASP
Complete click-bait article
I've had 2 Windows and 2 Samsung phones through work (they don't have iPhones as a choice), currently went back to Windows phone with the 640 XL (not a Samsung fan). The windows phone is a POS --- OK for my work calls and texting and just OK photos (terrible low light adjustments both photos and video) but recurring, and I mean very much recurring, problems include nearly unusable when plugged in, random power downs, unfriendly IE browsing (screen movements, etc. - my much smaller 1 generation old iPod touch is much better using Safari), random IE closures, it loses about a second every couple/few days versus my "i" devices where I have to shut down to put it back in sync (the random power downs sometime take care of this for me so that's a plus!?), unreliable internet sharing (again, seem to need to shut down to clear it up), etc.
I've been using Windows devices for a long time for work/personal (not so much personal anymore) and made my living with Windows based software and I used to be very anti-Apple (late 90s to early 2000s) --- I remember going into an electronics store I think late 90s and having a feeling of disgust looking at the new colorful iMacs and their non-business looking icons. I'm embarrassed it took me so long to rid myself of my ignorance.
http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10579-laptops-thunderbolt-3/
IBM partnership with Apple doesn't mean they are ignoring the Surface Pro line.
http://compass.microsoft.com/assets/54/0a/540a291e-34fc-43e0-9a38-3a623e665e3b.pdf?n=Booz_Allen_Surface.pdf
Looks like IBM is making solutions for Surface Pro / Windows 10, as it happen before with Apple. Could it be that later they become a reseller too, as Dell did?
And what Apple+IBM did in the enterprise looks nice, MS still dominating. As an example, DoD announce that will deploy Windows 10 in 3 million devices. And that's a single customer.
http://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/688721/dod-wide-windows-10-rapid-deployment-to-boost-cybersecurity
Let's see how it develops in the next years, with both companies pushing their devices and solutions.
Agreed. We have a few Surface Pro users at work, and you're exactly right. They are little laptops with a touch screen. Having said that, I've seen a few people using iPads at work exactly the same way. And they are both outnumbered by people just pulling out their MacBooks.