Official Apple images show new MacBook Pro with OLED 'Magic Toolbar,' Touch ID, new speaker design

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 104
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,297member
    As long as the Mac line is based on industry standard, Intel based hardware to power their machines, it will fail to distinguish itself from the Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc.  consortium.
    ... Instead, they will have to rely on their infrastructure and software to justify their price premium.

    As a retired IT software engineer I tend to judge products with a simple question, which is the same question that Jobs asked:   How will it make things better?
    ... Adding a touch bar is nice, but it won't answer that question for me.

    While it is true that Apple distinguishes itself by paying attention to details, when they compete in a commodity market like laptops, they need more to justify their premium prices.   Or, to put that another way:  if the Mac line were running Windows 10, how many would Apple sell?   There are a few that will shell out 4 digit numbers for an Apple logo, but not enough to support the line.

    I don't mean that to trash the Mac line.   Rather I am suggesting that the Mac line survives due to the Mac OS & supporting software (such as Safari), the Apple infrastructure and Apple's security and corporate integrity.
    numenorean
  • Reply 82 of 104
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Soli said:
    wiggin said:
    I don't really care all that much, but just saying there is another way to make the bezel smaller without the compromises.
    There are always compromises. ALWAYS. Apple's success has a lot to do with balancing the compromises in a such a way that technology can push forward and the user expererience can grow. 

    Of course you still need a finite thickness in the lid to house the display, and if the edges are tapered that limits how close to the edge you can make the screen. And we all know how Apple likes to taper the edges of their computers to make them look thinner than they really are (although the new MacBook is a bit more boxy).
    Tappering of the lid also serves to add riggidity without adding weigh. I think it was in 2012 that they moved to the thinnest top case they've ever used and I don't think it's been matched. It's also why some complain about the FaceTime camera having a lower resolution than many cheap notebooks.
    I was only referring to the specific compromises you mentioned in your previous post which were centered around making the bottom of the case smaller in order to have a thinner bezel as if that was the only way to achieve a thinner bezel. It's not.

    Of course there are always compromises and trade-offs in any design. But there are also multiple solutions to many "problems," this being the supposed problem of the bezel being too thick. I was proposing a solution you had not considered. It may or may not be feasible depending on the resulting compromises for that solution, which are different than the ones you listed.

    As for the tapering, yes it can potentially lead to a more rigid screen, but have you noticed the lack of such tapering in the MacBook design? I take that as possibly a hint of what the new MBP design might be if they want to have a common design theme across their laptop lineup.
  • Reply 83 of 104
    yellolion said:
    originalg said:
    That screen bezel though... =(
    I agree, that bevel is shockingly thick and looks so outdated now... really spoils the look of the MacBook. i love my MacBook but have to say that companies like HP are producing far more beautiful laptops and desktops than Apple. Apple are loosing the edge in design/aesthetics and as time passes by, they seem to be getting worse sadly...
    H-P computers are cheap garbage and I say that as a very disappointed long-term holder of H-P stocks! (...and in the spirit of full disclosure, also AAPL and MSFT stocks.)
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 84 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    wiggin said:
    As for the tapering, yes it can potentially lead to a more rigid screen, but have you noticed the lack of such tapering in the MacBook design? I take that as possibly a hint of what the new MBP design might be if they want to have a common design theme across their laptop lineup.
    The MB has a 12" display. With a larger display it will be less rigid for the same thickness for the same material.
  • Reply 85 of 104
    How will the disabled be able to use that control strip? Nothing to feel on the strip means people with decreased vision or blindness are at a disadvantage.
    numenoreantallest skil
  • Reply 86 of 104
    romanmar said:
    Does it still weigh like 3.5 pounds? If it is I think I might be getting 12" macbook
    That's the beauty of multiple models -- you get to make that choice.

    For me the Pro needs to be closer to a desktop replacement, and weight isn't nearly as important as features and performance. A 2 kg notebook is a helluvalot easier to carry around than an iMac! :)

    If my use of the machine was different and weight was a higher priority, I'd just get the MacBook or the Air.

    SpamSandwichnumenoreanwiggin
  • Reply 87 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    How will the disabled be able to use that control strip? Nothing to feel on the strip means people with decreased vision or blindness are at a disadvantage.
    Why? Accessibility has been a wonderful thing for iPhone and iPad users. Those are the devices most preferred by the blind.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 88 of 104
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,782member
    Soli said:

    Why? Accessibility has been a wonderful thing for iPhone and iPad users. Those are the devices most preferred by the blind.
    They may prefer iPhone to other phones, but it doesn't mean they like them. They still struggle with the lack of physical keys. You have to hunt around on the screen tapping to find active spots. For example in the old Nokia days you could install software that with the click of a key would tell you the time. Another fixed key would tell you who just emailed you. Sure a touch screen is infinitely customizable, but for the blind not always more convenient, especially for routine everyday repetitive tasks. I learned of these issues from a blind friend. He is a Windows power user and would much rather use his laptop than his iPhone for communicating and productivity simply because of the physical keyboard.
  • Reply 89 of 104
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    romanmar said:
    Does it still weigh like 3.5 pounds? If it is I think I might be getting 12" macbook
    That's the beauty of multiple models -- you get to make that choice.

    For me the Pro needs to be closer to a desktop replacement, and weight isn't nearly as important as features and performance. A 2 kg notebook is a helluvalot easier to carry around than an iMac! :)

    If my use of the machine was different and weight was a higher priority, I'd just get the MacBook or the Air.

    This is where I stand as well. If thinness is your #1 criteria, you have options for that already. If performance and functionality are the intended differentiation for the MBP, then making it thinner should be of secondary concern. Only make it thinner if/when technology allows you to do it without sacrificing performance and usability.
  • Reply 90 of 104
    Soli said:
    How will the disabled be able to use that control strip? Nothing to feel on the strip means people with decreased vision or blindness are at a disadvantage.
    Why? Accessibility has been a wonderful thing for iPhone and iPad users. Those are the devices most preferred by the blind.
    Presumably they will address such concerns in their demonstration or a video.
  • Reply 91 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    volcan said:
    Soli said:

    Why? Accessibility has been a wonderful thing for iPhone and iPad users. Those are the devices most preferred by the blind.
    They may prefer iPhone to other phones, but it doesn't mean they like them. They still struggle with the lack of physical keys. You have to hunt around on the screen tapping to find active spots. For example in the old Nokia days you could install software that with the click of a key would tell you the time. Another fixed key would tell you who just emailed you. Sure a touch screen is infinitely customizable, but for the blind not always more convenient, especially for routine everyday repetitive tasks. I learned of these issues from a blind friend. He is a Windows power user and would much rather use his laptop than his iPhone for communicating and productivity simply because of the physical keyboard.
    All the reports I've read show that the iPhone and iPad have been amazing technology for the blind. You say that an old Nokia was better, but that phone is limited in scope. It can't hold a candle to what is possible with the iPad. And then you have the cost. If you're blind you pay what seems like an excessive amount for a braille display, but I don't see that being more popular than what the iPad can do.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 92 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    Soli said:
    How will the disabled be able to use that control strip? Nothing to feel on the strip means people with decreased vision or blindness are at a disadvantage.
    Why? Accessibility has been a wonderful thing for iPhone and iPad users. Those are the devices most preferred by the blind.
    Presumably they will address such concerns in their demonstration or a video.
    Sure, but I'm not seeing these major concerns. Why does it matter that the Esc key is part of a display when the images clearly show that the display bar has an edge, not just melded into the casing as a single unit. It looks to be raised as high as the other buttons. Since it'll be on the left-edge most of the time, how is that a big deal?

    I've also read people complaining abuot the physical start button being removed which will make it impossible to reboot. WTF?! How can something think and write that?
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 93 of 104
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,782member
    Soli said:

    And then you have the cost. If you're blind you pay what seems like an excessive amount for a braille display, but I don't see that being more popular than what the iPad can do.
    I didn't infer the Nokia was better, just more convenient for some common tasks. It is sort of like saying my old pickup is better than my new BMW because I can work on it myself. I don't even know how to add windshield washer fluid in my BMW, but it doesn't make the pickup better. I just don't have to take it to the dealer to add windshield fluid, so for some common tasks it is more convenient.

    I have been to a couple blind conventions where I drove my friend. Id say in my observation almost no one under the age of 50 even reads braille anymore. Everyone is using voice and OCR. 
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 94 of 104
    What a useless tool, i think apple is forgetting too much the pro user and especially that the path is more clear with yoga or surface, and that they have to merge the two OS. i don't really get it, for the first time in years i am thinking to switch to window. Too useless innovations but more than that not a very good innovations on performance, and if they put the amd graphic card inside... i will really buy window as my next laptop Dell is doing so good now. Why they want to be only phone maker? I know for the revenues, but it's stupid what they are doing, all the professionals i speak too are changing their mind on apple.. also it's so easy for them to produce the best compuetrs.. come on apple stop this nonsense like the mac pro how can you think to not upgrade the processor as for 3 years now? that is really crazy. And the imac how long do we have to wait to see a graphic card in the model 21.5 4k. And also why don't you make iphone and ipad pro a real computer running a real operative system with a finder.. you always ask yourself why tablets are selling less and less.. it is really all up to you bosses at apple .. stop concentrating only on numbers... we are tired of your greediness!!!!
    Obvious FUD. Get the hell out of here with your 2 posts. Detestable puppet.
    nolamacguy
  • Reply 95 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    volcan said:
    I have been to a couple blind conventions where I drove my friend. Id say in my observation almost no one under the age of 50 even reads braille anymore. Everyone is using voice and OCR. 
    They sell a couple.

  • Reply 96 of 104
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,782member
    Soli said:
    volcan said:
    I have been to a couple blind conventions where I drove my friend. Id say in my observation almost no one under the age of 50 even reads braille anymore. Everyone is using voice and OCR. 
    They sell a couple.

    That may be due to federal regulations that require braille reader availability in order to comply with certain certifications. Even the Federation of the Blind is trying to get that requirement taken out of schools because no one uses it and as you say rather pricey. 
  • Reply 97 of 104
    Soli said:

    Why does it matter that the Esc key is part of a display when the images clearly show that the display bar has an edge, not just melded into the casing as a single unit. It looks to be raised as high as the other buttons. Since it'll be on the left-edge most of the time, how is that a big deal?

    There was something in my Facebook feed this morning about how the new MacBook Pro has no ESC key. It made no sense to me. It's a programmable row, so it can have any key you want! It can even have an ANY key for the Homers among us (though no cup holder)! I have no doubt that one of the options will be a row of function keys (i.e. F1, F2, etc.).


    Soli said:

    I've also read people complaining abuot the physical start button being removed which will make it impossible to reboot. WTF?! How can something think and write that?

    It remains to be seen how Apple will implement this, but if it isn't a physical button it may mean having to come up with a new way of "forcing" a reboot when the machine locks up. Right now you just hold the power button for four seconds. If there's no power button, that's not an option.


    Soli
  • Reply 98 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    It remains to be seen how Apple will implement this, but if it isn't a physical button it may mean having to come up with a new way of "forcing" a reboot when the machine locks up. Right now you just hold the power button for four seconds. If there's no power button, that's not an option.
    This seems like a given, even if we don't know how they implement it. It's not like we can pull the battery these days. If the OLED display bar doesn't physically complete a circuit when pressed on the right edge, they could use a seperate button (like on the side of the casing like on the Mac mini, if not on top), or they could use a combination of the physical keys. I think we'd all learn right away the long-ress key combination for turning off and turning on, but I have doubts they would go that route. 
  • Reply 99 of 104
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,213moderator
    Soli said:

    Why does it matter that the Esc key is part of a display when the images clearly show that the display bar has an edge, not just melded into the casing as a single unit. It looks to be raised as high as the other buttons. Since it'll be on the left-edge most of the time, how is that a big deal?
    There was something in my Facebook feed this morning about how the new MacBook Pro has no ESC key. It made no sense to me. It's a programmable row, so it can have any key you want! It can even have an ANY key for the Homers among us (though no cup holder)! I have no doubt that one of the options will be a row of function keys (i.e. F1, F2, etc.).
    Soli said:

    I've also read people complaining abuot the physical start button being removed which will make it impossible to reboot. WTF?! How can something think and write that?
    It remains to be seen how Apple will implement this, but if it isn't a physical button it may mean having to come up with a new way of "forcing" a reboot when the machine locks up. Right now you just hold the power button for four seconds. If there's no power button, that's not an option.
    I reckon the touch bar will display icons for brightness, audio etc by default and you'd press the fn key to switch to other key sets. I thought they'd move escape to the key below but it makes sense to have it programmable as it's commonly used as a cancel key and now they can show a cancel button. If you start dragging items in the Finder but change your mind, escape cancels it but it's not that obvious. Having a cancel button appear when cancel is an option would be more intuitive. Escape is used for things like force-quit (command-alt-escape) but holding command-alt can show a range of buttons like force-quit, shutdown, sleep etc. The strip will be able to show emoji icons too and the special keyboard characters to save opening the character palette.

    It looks like the touch id button is separated so I would guess that part can either be pressed down or it responds to input all the time, maybe pressure:

    The 2016 MacBook Pro

    The bezel looks a little smaller at the sides but that could just be the marketing image:



    It doesn't quite look like 14", I'd say 13.7" vs 13.3". Maybe they've managed to push it just to 14" and the same with the 15" so that the lineup is now 12", 14", 16".

    If the display went too far into the corner, they'd have to change the curvature of the corner. They have to keep their product designs consistent across all their products. I don't think small bezel laptops look all that nice as they have sharp corners. It makes them look like old HDTVs:

    Image result for old hdtv

    Some have to move the webcam down to the bottom bezel. The MBPs only need minor refinements going forward, they are nicely designed laptops. A space grey or matte black option would be a good addition too. Jet black might be ok if the trackpad/keyboard area was matte otherwise it would reflect the display and be covered in prints but I think the matte options would suffice.
  • Reply 100 of 104
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    Marvin said:

    The 2016 MacBook Pro

    The bezel looks a little smaller at the sides but that could just be the marketing image:



    It doesn't quite look like 14", I'd say 13.7" vs 13.3". Maybe they've managed to push it just to 14" and the same with the 15" so that the lineup is now 12", 14", 16".
    It looks in proportion the current 13" MBP display used today. Shrink the sides down slightly for the new, thinner display bezel, and you have what seems to be the same distance from the edge of the keyboard to the side. I think the reason the speakers can no go there is because they've removed half the port interaces.
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