"The card was excised because of the "path forward" with more generic physical card readers, or the growing implementation of wireless transfer.
Schiller says that the 3.5mm headphone jack was retained for professionals with audio gear that do not have wireless solutions, and still need the jack for macOS."
So, the "professional" solution to mass storage is wireless, but professionals don't have access to BT headphones. It's getting deep in the spin room.
People keep forgetting that the jack on the MacBook Pro is optical too capable of high sample rate multichannel I/O, which is definitely still a useful pro feature. And while wireless is great for convenient access to huge, reasonably fast mass storage, etc., the professional solution for *really* fast directly connected local mass storage is via those multiple thunderbolt 3 ports. I don't think another laptop with more raw IO capability than the new 15" has ever been available, though that's not to say others didn't have a higher number of various, slower ports which happened to be more convenient for whatever the connection of the moment required. Given time I expect wireless and the C interface will simplify things to a better point than ever, though that time may not be in the lifespan of this model for some people.
Are we sure about that? The tech specs of the old models always said that the port was both analog and digital. The tech specs page on Apple's web site for the 2016 does not make this statement. It only says there is a headphone jack. This leads me to believe that optical output is no longer supported.
Confirmation came out today that optical audio has been removed.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
It's not that black/white.
There are a variety of needs among Apple's customers. I don't doubt that these new laptops meet the needs of many (perhaps even a majority) of Apple's customers.
But the new machines are clearly a disappointment to many (probably not a majority) of Apple's high-end customers.
I think it is a mistake for Apple (and those Panglossian Apple fans who reflexively defend everything Apple does) to believe that just because these high-end customers are not a majority of consumers that they don't matter. Partly they matter because some of these folks are Apple's most die hard fans -- the ones who evangelize Apple products and provide support to family and friends. Partly they matter because while every individual niche represents a minority of users, it could very well be that the some of all the minorities is a majority.
Speaking strictly as an owner many AAPL shares, I think Apple needs to figure out how to provide a broader product range. I don't think they should pursue low margin or "cheap" products, but I do think they should be more open to pursuing low volume (but high margin) products that are direct offshoots of their more high volume products. For example, they need more than one basic Mac Pro configuration and they need to update it more than every 3 to 4 years. As another example, I think it was a mistake to kill off Apple-branded monitors.
A high-end customer is the one who is technically mature enough to not depend on Apple and able to find her/his way around. Not those whining about adapters at every product launch. And they matter to Apple since Apple releases products capable of answering even the most challenging technical demands as seen with Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro and of course the hardware range.
That broader product range was the catastrophe of the 90s bringing Apple to the point of extinction: laserwriters, stylewriters, crappy cameras overlapping and inconsistent tower and desktop models... Apple will not go back to these days.
Low volume but high margin products are a feature of vertical markets. There are system integrators, turnkey solution sellers to do that. Apple is not in that business. Apple will not be a Sun, DEC, Compaq, HP either. Apple produces for the mass market, not for vertical markets. Vertical markets prefer Apple products because they are the best, not because they are specifically produced for vertical markets. There will not be a broad range of Mac Pro. Apple provides one expandable power core. The system integrator people take that core and expand it with several solutions to build complete powerhouses for their customers. There are so many talented PC-guys out there that even if they don't know anything about Apple, they can expose a complete wizardry when it comes to building an Apple based solution.
So, that high-end customer everyone pretends to be is an urban legend. There are just customers with myriads of different needs.
I see a potential contradiction here... On the one hand you say the MBP should be purely intended for high-end customers, not those of us whining about adapters; but then say Apple produces for the mass market, not the low volume market. Historically speaking, do we have any idea what % of MBPs were purchased by your hypothetical high-end customer vs what we'll call the prosumers? Those who perhaps don't need all the power but can afford to purchase the higher-end hardware and appreciate the convenience and features of the pro models? I'd wager that a significant portion were purchased by people who didn't necessarily need the power/features but bought it anyway because they could afford it.
If you drive away those prosumers, what will happen to the MBP market? Will it become a low volume product without sufficient economies of scale to keep prices and upgrade cycles reasonable? Isn't this basically the situation with the Mac Pro?
I didn't say anything about MBP. Maybe you mixed up quoted texts?
"Apple releases products capable of answering even the most challenging technical demands" and that's it. Take Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro and other "Pro" apps as a "benevolence". They don't make Apple a vertical market seller. The situation with Mac Pro is not the lack of its "economy of scale" to sustain itself, but the quality standards of Apple who always strives to supply the best. Even a quick glance at this site will show you that Intel has not yet enough mature chips to justify an early Mac Pro update.
Fair enough. Your reply was to a post talking about MBPs, so I took your statements to be in that context.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
Apple know more about their end consumers, maybe. The people buying iOS devices and laptops for casual activities are their core market right now (and there's nothing wrong with such computer usage; we cannot all be content creators or studio artists). Apple seem to not give much consideration to actual professional content creators, though. Or developers, for that matter. I find myself wondering what Apple use internally in their design and engineering departments. 2013 Mac Pro? Older Mac Pro models? iMacs? MacBooks?? I know that photography and music have crashed as far as things you can make a living on (and design is in the trash can as well), but video editing and CGI for TV and film are still growing, as is the gaming industry, none of which are professions that Apple spend much time catering to with their product at this time. These industries see time as money, so the more RAM and brute CPU/GPU speed, the better for them. I'm happy Apple produces luxury computers, because I think PCs suck for everything but brute power, but Apple isn't even attempting to maintain a foothold in the professional realm.
The defensive commentary from Apple execs isn't impressing anything on me other than how far off the mark their arrogant insular opinions are...
How do you know that Macs are not used in gaming industry? And why should Apple provide out-of-the-box, plug-and-play solutions for these industries? Providing such turnkey solutions is the job of system integrators, not Apple's. You wouldn't want your studio be built by Apple, that would cost to you so much that you would'nt want to see an "A" letter again. There are many talented guys who would do that better and cheaper than Apple. Apple just provides a powerful core called Mac Pro to these guys, that's it and that is the most fortunate.
I didn't state they were not used. Nowhere in my comments did I say that. I said Apple is not spending much time (or any) catering to those industries. It's right there in my text, and you bolded it yourself.
The Mac is not used in the desktop gaming industry AS MUCH as I would like. I would like to see it used more because I want to stop relying on Windows for gaming. The general reasoning for poor Mac representation in desktop gaming is that Mac GPUs aren't cutting edge enough. But it's there and it's possible (I played all of Half-Life 2 on the MacBook Pro 3,1, which suicided from heat fatigue).
iOS, however, is a very different story. It seems to be upsetting all portable gaming platforms, much to Nintendo and Sony's chagrin. You do need a Mac to develop for iOS. The slower your compiler goes, the more the project will cost. So it behoves Apple to make powerful developer machines at least.
No one is asking for turnkey solutions from Apple for these industries; many people ARE asking for professional grade computers to put into the core of such solutions. Computers that aren't compromised by laptop components or shorted on available connectivity and power. Apple isn't making those.
Ah you mean gameplay, not game production. I thought your claim was bolder. Let's see then: The only successful dedicated game machines are consoles. Playstation and Xbox. No one can deny this. Apple has succesfully evaded such a "gaming PC" black hole several decades ago. We know the outcomes of Atari and Amiga. I touched and played with these at the computer expos, I'm from that generation. There is no such thing as "gaming PC", this is an old illusion already resolved. The only real "gaming PCs" are those compiled by the kids and which are good as science homework. You cannot build an industry on that. With all due respect, you must be a casual gamer (like me) since you've given Half-Life 2 as example, an already bad game. I've just more faith in Mac gaming so I've spent some time to experiment with some games: Infinity Ward's graphics shine on the Mac, Treyarch's sucks (including BootCamp). They all use cross platform gaming engines, some shine on the Mac, some don't. Just like any other software...
If no one is asking for turnkey solutions from Apple for these industries then how Apple should spend more time with these? The only way to spend more time is to go into their minute specifics then that means a vertical solution. This is what I understand from your wording. Apple spends more time for everyone: an eBay seller's creative needs is not less important than another content creator's. Content creators are not the only professionals. What about pilots, fishers? So where and how do you draw the line? There is no line.
And Apple replies to all high-tech demands as best as it can. There is high-tech and low-tech. There is no professional and consumer. This is not a matter of wording, but a matter of approach.
As for MS showing the touchscreen of a Surface and saying "you can't do that on a mac," that's just a droll marketing diversion. Macs don't have touchscreens, and Schiller has articulated why. Note that the MS Surface ads don't say, "you can't do that on an iPad." The hardware on a notebook just isn't conducive to touchscreen use. Especially if the notebook is lightweight, tapping on the screen is going to make the thing bounce around or even tip backward. Imagine the uproar on the message-boards over 'tip-gate.' Add to that the familiar macOS menu-driven interface also not being conducive to the touch experience. They'd have to do away with that interface, which -once again- would cause a furor. You think people are torqued over the move to USB-C ports on MBP (and no headphone jack on the iPhone), well if macOS just became iOS on steroids, there would be outrage (outrage, I tell you!) over turning MBP into an iPad with a non-detachable keyboard. Of course, they could try to incorporate both interfaces and be all things to all people, but Microsoft would probably accuse Apple of stealing Windows 8 out of a dumpster in Redmond.
No, Apple has been quite successful without trying to capture the majority of the market. With each new announcement, update, or product release, it seems the message boards fill up with commentary that (in some cases intentionally, I'm convinced) misses the point of what's made Apple, well, Apple. They have no intention of producing devices that meet every price point and are customizable to be everything to everyone. Microsoft, Google, Samsung and others all pursue that model, and collectively, they do make up the majority of the market. Their products fail to be conclusively superior (and are less profitable), however, and in lots of cases end up being quite inferior and less reliable. In individual cases, of course, some people can get exactly what they want from one of those manufacturers, but for many, that supposedly perfect match really just ends up being a bundle of customized compromises.
For those who want to lament the passing of Apple, I'd suggest keeping your powder dry. If Apple ever starts chasing down every option and every last bell-and-whistle, that's when you'll be able to see the whites of their eyes.
Let's be clear: Schiller has sort of articulated that to techies. The rest of the world sees it differently. No is saying Apple has to have the majority market share. What we all want is for Apple to lead again. We're talking here about computers, not phones/ipads (yes, those are computers as well, we know...). The Mac Pro was half the computer the industry wanted, and they have left that dangling. The new macbooks are mostly evolutionary, not revolutionary (and I'm impressed with the Touch Bar). And the iMacs have stagnated.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
The iHaters are just moving the goalposts now. In six months they'll say "well let's see if it's still selling in a year!".
Negative people are much more likely to rant and rave on web forums. They want everybody to be as miserable as they are. Then tech bloggers chime in to spin the negatives as the majority opinion. Happens all the time on AI. Then sales figures come out to refute their negativity... which just makes the negative commenters even angrier. They start calling people who bought the product stupid losers. Happens all the time on AI. The 3.5mm headphone jack is the perfect example. Now comes the MacBook Pro, then the AppleTV. Oh, and Intel is now on their radar. Notice the carping and blathering about Intel’s CPUs holding back Apple? The “other” solution is always the best with this crowd. “If only Apple would...” is the omnipresent meme.
I find it very amusing how many people here are blinded by their loyalty to Apple while those of us who use a computer for real work are getting the shaft. I have owned every Apple Power Mac and now 2012 Mac Pro since the 8600. The Trash can Mac Pro was the beginning of the end. A PRO machine has ports that are still used by almost every professional in the industry. USB2, HDMI, are not something from the computer graveyard of yesterday. A Pro machine doesn't need a bag of dongles to make it functional. A PRO machine can be configured to meet your needs. A Pro machine does not have to cost one third more than a Windows machine, which by the way can't even be found with the same limitations in this price range. I hope all of you apologists are happy paying so much for the eye candy. I also have a 2012 MacBook Pro and I am thankful that I have it, because it may be my last. OS X will be hard to leave behind. And thats the problem for many. And yes, I'm angry. I'm angry that a company that I love has turned away from the people who kept it alive before the iPhone.
For me, the magsafe, a normal usb-port and the sd-card slot are essential, furthermore I often use a lan-port. I would have bought a "complete" new MBP instantly, but now I'm going to upgrade my 2012 MBP with an 1 TB SSD. Furthermore I hate these flat keyboards like this from the 2015 MB and I fear, that the new keyboard of the MBP is the same. They should change the name from MacBook Pro to MacBook Style. It has nothing to do with "Pro".
As for MS showing the touchscreen of a Surface and saying "you can't do that on a mac," that's just a droll marketing diversion. Macs don't have touchscreens, and Schiller has articulated why. Note that the MS Surface ads don't say, "you can't do that on an iPad." The hardware on a notebook just isn't conducive to touchscreen use. Especially if the notebook is lightweight, tapping on the screen is going to make the thing bounce around or even tip backward. Imagine the uproar on the message-boards over 'tip-gate.' Add to that the familiar macOS menu-driven interface also not being conducive to the touch experience. They'd have to do away with that interface, which -once again- would cause a furor. You think people are torqued over the move to USB-C ports on MBP (and no headphone jack on the iPhone), well if macOS just became iOS on steroids, there would be outrage (outrage, I tell you!) over turning MBP into an iPad with a non-detachable keyboard. Of course, they could try to incorporate both interfaces and be all things to all people, but Microsoft would probably accuse Apple of stealing Windows 8 out of a dumpster in Redmond.
No, Apple has been quite successful without trying to capture the majority of the market. With each new announcement, update, or product release, it seems the message boards fill up with commentary that (in some cases intentionally, I'm convinced) misses the point of what's made Apple, well, Apple. They have no intention of producing devices that meet every price point and are customizable to be everything to everyone. Microsoft, Google, Samsung and others all pursue that model, and collectively, they do make up the majority of the market. Their products fail to be conclusively superior (and are less profitable), however, and in lots of cases end up being quite inferior and less reliable. In individual cases, of course, some people can get exactly what they want from one of those manufacturers, but for many, that supposedly perfect match really just ends up being a bundle of customized compromises.
For those who want to lament the passing of Apple, I'd suggest keeping your powder dry. If Apple ever starts chasing down every option and every last bell-and-whistle, that's when you'll be able to see the whites of their eyes.
Let's be clear: Schiller has sort of articulated that to techies. The rest of the world sees it differently. No is saying Apple has to have the majority market share. What we all want is for Apple to lead again. We're talking here about computers, not phones/ipads (yes, those are computers as well, we know...). The Mac Pro was half the computer the industry wanted, and they have left that dangling. The new macbooks are mostly evolutionary, not revolutionary (and I'm impressed with the Touch Bar). And the iMacs have stagnated.
ah, yeah - if you don't know that iterative improvement is the way that apple rolls, you haven't been paying attention. revolutions are very few and far in between. Apple is unique in having laid claim to not just one, but several of them, which is a very rare thing. iterative improvement.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
There are plenty of people here who say they are getting one. There will always be someone. Rayz2016 is spot on. After such a long wait, some people will feel they need a machine - whatever. Some might be perfectly happy with them. That said, they are overpriced and once the pent up demand has been satisfied we will see what happens. As he said. Give it six months.
If what Phil is saying is correct and this is the fastest selling MBP to date, I see very little reason not to give some absolute figures. The fact he didn't offer any, and the fact he put on his fireman's jacket to send a message out (through an interview) on the controversy of the past few days is also worth noting. I'm glad someone at Apple is following the debate and am sure there are already plans afoot to offer something to users should sales flatten out. When people complained about iPhone pricing they took vey little time to chop a couple of hundred dollars off. Of course, that knarked those that had paid the full price since launch.
Let's wait those six months. I was in the market but they lost the sale to me. The UK will be a washout for obvious reasons.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
The iHaters are just moving the goalposts now. In six months they'll say "well let's see if it's still selling in a year!".
Negative people are much more likely to rant and rave on web forums. They want everybody to be as miserable as they are. Then tech bloggers chime in to spin the negatives as the majority opinion. Happens all the time on AI. Then sales figures come out to refute their negativity... which just makes the negative commenters even angrier. They start calling people who bought the product stupid losers. Happens all the time on AI. The 3.5mm headphone jack is the perfect example. Now comes the MacBook Pro, then the AppleTV. Oh, and Intel is now on their radar. Notice the carping and blathering about Intel’s CPUs holding back Apple? The “other” solution is always the best with this crowd. “If only Apple would...” is the omnipresent meme.
I find it very amusing how many people here are blinded by their loyalty to Apple while those of us who use a computer for real work are getting the shaft. I have owned every Apple Power Mac and now 2012 Mac Pro since the 8600. The Trash can Mac Pro was the beginning of the end. A PRO machine has ports that are still used by almost every professional in the industry. USB2, HDMI, are not something from the computer graveyard of yesterday. A Pro machine doesn't need a bag of dongles to make it functional. A PRO machine can be configured to meet your needs. A Pro machine does not have to cost one third more than a Windows machine, which by the way can't even be found with the same limitations in this price range. I hope all of you apologists are happy paying so much for the eye candy. I also have a 2012 MacBook Pro and I am thankful that I have it, because it may be my last. OS X will be hard to leave behind. And thats the problem for many. And yes, I'm angry. I'm angry that a company that I love has turned away from the people who kept it alive before the iPhone.
man what rubbish dreck. why don't you cite lemmings and isheep, i think those are the only tropes you excluded.
nobody is blinded -- we just continue to receive value for our jobs to be done. i've been a mac user since the ][ and continue to be a professional using my macs today. no machines have done the job better for me (software and web dev). i don't use the ports you do so i sure as shit don't miss them. i think the more appropriate trade off is for you to use whatever adapters you need for your use cases than to make every user pay for them (not just in resources but in design compromises).
Dell workstations priced to MP equivalents were very similar in price, this was well written about.
enjoy Windows. have fun with the Nerd Rage....but don't forget to tell your kids you love them.
For me, the magsafe, a normal usb-port and the sd-card slot are essential, furthermore I often use a lan-port. I would have bought a "complete" new MBP instantly, but now I'm going to upgrade my 2012 MBP with an 1 TB SSD. Furthermore I hate these flat keyboards like this from the 2015 MB and I fear, that the new keyboard of the MBP is the same. They should change the name from MacBook Pro to MacBook Style. It has nothing to do with "Pro".
i don't care about magsafe when sitting at my desk. i rarely use ports. and i have never, EVER used a consumer SD card slot (real pros use compact flash, remember).
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
The iHaters are just moving the goalposts now. In six months they'll say "well let's see if it's still selling in a year!".
How do you define an iHater? Am I an iHater for criticising Apple? Would I deserve that label after decades as a Mac user? Are there iLovers? The goal posts haven't been moved. It's impossible to know how these machines will fare but the figures, as of today, are worthless. The period between the next earnings call and six months (next bump?) will be critical.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
"I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than the vocal minority of whiners on the Internet do."
There, fixed that for you.
So, you only suspect. You don't actually know. How do you know it is a vocal minority? Have you looked into the future or something? What did you fix?
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
So all these people throwing a temper tantrum are going to buy it? What difference does 6 months make?
And what difference does six days make? What would you rather do? evaluate after six days or six months? Any time between the next earning's call and model bump would be the best time to evaluate sales. Not now. Please give some examples of people throwing temper tantrums. I haven't seen any so far. I've seen a ton of criticism on various aspects of these new models but always reasoned.
The next couple of years are going to be interesting for Apple. Their drive for thin products is getting ridiculous.
The Touchbar strikes me as something like the S7 Edge. Not convinced it is a groundbreaking new UI that I would use, unless I decide to like Emojis..... Your mileage may vary.
Not to mention a user couldn't connect their 1 month old iPhone 7 (+) to this laptop without a dongle. Not to mention SD cards, USBs, HDMIs....... I totally understood DVI, VGA, Cd drive, and MAYBE Ethernet but no HDMI? Every projector I have seen in the last 4 years uses HDMI; you know, what "professionals" do with laptops. The included port is why I bought the mid-2012 retina.
Apple needs to get their interface connections in order. It is sloppier than I have ever seen it with poor consistency. If they are going to cold turkey USB-C on their products, the iPhone 7S/8 better go that way as well.
Of course, Apple apologist will find some reason that Apple is prefect.
Yup, the usual:
I can't see a use for the Touchbar, so it must be useless. It can't connect to a one month old iPhone because none of Apple's customers would ever think of just connecting it wirelessly (if they ever need to connect an iPhone at all). Apple's customers will need every single dongle every created because WIRELESS DOES NOT EXIST! It doesn't have every single socket dating back to the candle holder on Babbage's Difference Engine, so surely no one will buy it. Remember WIRELESS IS SOMETHING YOU IMAGINE DUE TO YOUR DRUG HABIT. IT DOES NOT EXIST! The only reason this thing will sell like hot cakes is because apologists think Apple is perfect.
Nice job; I think you covered everything.
That must be the most immature post I've seen today. Wireless isn't the solution for everything nor should it be. For starters there are security issues that cabling will resolve. Interference issues that cables will resolve. Transfer speed issues that cabling will resolve etc. Wireless is great but sometimes cables are too. The iPhone has a lightning port. One of its functions is connecting it to a Mac. The criticism for eliminating the analogue headphone jack from the iPhone but not the new MBP is valid. As is the the criticism for needing a dongle to connect them together. It is perfectly valid.
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
The iHaters are just moving the goalposts now. In six months they'll say "well let's see if it's still selling in a year!".
Negative people are much more likely to rant and rave on web forums. They want everybody to be as miserable as they are. Then tech bloggers chime in to spin the negatives as the majority opinion. Happens all the time on AI. Then sales figures come out to refute their negativity... which just makes the negative commenters even angrier. They start calling people who bought the product stupid losers. Happens all the time on AI. The 3.5mm headphone jack is the perfect example. Now comes the MacBook Pro, then the AppleTV. Oh, and Intel is now on their radar. Notice the carping and blathering about Intel’s CPUs holding back Apple? The “other” solution is always the best with this crowd. “If only Apple would...” is the omnipresent meme.
What sales figures have you seen to refute anything?
Well, there's a lot of pent-up demand because they haven't updated for so long.
Let's see how the sales look after 6 months.
But if this thing is as bad as people have been saying it is, then no one would buy it. They'll wait for the next one, or move to Windows as folk here have said they would. I mean if you cannot POSSIBLY work in anything less than 32GB of RAM then the machine is useless to you.
I suspect the real reason is that Apple knows more about its customers than we do.
It's not that black/white.
There are a variety of needs among Apple's customers. I don't doubt that these new laptops meet the needs of many (perhaps even a majority) of Apple's customers.
But the new machines are clearly a disappointment to many (probably not a majority) of Apple's high-end customers.
I think it is a mistake for Apple (and those Panglossian Apple fans who reflexively defend everything Apple does) to believe that just because these high-end customers are not a majority of consumers that they don't matter. Partly they matter because some of these folks are Apple's most die hard fans -- the ones who evangelize Apple products and provide support to family and friends. Partly they matter because while every individual niche represents a minority of users, it could very well be that the some of all the minorities is a majority.
Speaking strictly as an owner many AAPL shares, I think Apple needs to figure out how to provide a broader product range. I don't think they should pursue low margin or "cheap" products, but I do think they should be more open to pursuing low volume (but high margin) products that are direct offshoots of their more high volume products. For example, they need more than one basic Mac Pro configuration and they need to update it more than every 3 to 4 years. As another example, I think it was a mistake to kill off Apple-branded monitors.
There would be high demand for a tower system. Nothing new. Apple spent a long time making some of the best towers available. Now you have the Mac Pro, the Mini, the iMac and the laptops. There is a gaping hole in the line but they won't fill it, as customers would choose not to buy iMacs and having a screen (that Apple chooses for you) glued onto you desktop computer (even if you don't need it or like it) is not nice if you just want a nicely designed tower and monitor choice. Give me a Sawtooth 2 at a reasonable price and I'd be happy.
Apple does not have a normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop. That is a major oversight since that is what almost everybody who is not a professional film editor wants, no? Normal price is $ 1,200 - $ 1,300. Am I wrong?
Yes!
2.7GHz Processor 128GB Storage
2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1866MHz memory
128GB PCIe-based SSD1
Intel Iris Graphics 6100
Two Thunderbolt 2 ports
$1,299.00
sorry. let me correct myself: normal-priced 13 inch retina laptop, with enough storage space so that I can save more than 2 movies and an iPhone back-up on it....
Hang on! Why could you possibly need more than 128GB SSD1 as we move into 2017! Just use iCloud to safeguard anything that might not fit on the local drive! Can't see that happening though as Apple wouldn't be shipping 128GB drives if they were insufficient. Or was it a typo?
Off course Apple employees and companies like IBM will buy these new Macbook pro who is moving away from Windows laptop partially or entirely.
But, that is not whole Macbook pro market. Millions of college students is big market for Macbook Pro. All kinds of Professionals out side of large corporations is another big market with higher performance, longer battery need. Than, rest of us with need for lighter and cheaper Macbook Pro. So, Apple please have mercy on us and drop base model(8GB,256 SSD, no OLED) price to affordable $1199.
Totally agree. This laptop should cost $1199. With the 2.4 GHz dual-core CPU, 16 GB RAM, and 512 GB SSD, this laptop should be $1799. This would be expensive but reasonable for a MacBook. This is not a Pro machine because of the dual-core CPU. And please, don't skimp on the ports. This machine should have four ports. I personally would not need a Touch Bar on this computer, but the Touch ID would be nice. Build such a machine, Apple. Price it at $1799. It will fly off the shelves.
What did you expect Mr Schiller to say about the Macbook Pro sales. I do not believe a thing anyone from Apple says. Of course they got a lot of orders. It is the newest greatest notebook Apple ever created until the customer returns the unit. Apple sales always tells the customer that we have 2 weeks to test the unit out. I am sure that is what is happening here. None of these Touch Bar units are in the stores yet. How else can the customer see the product. Apple always has a delay in fulfilling these orders. Currently there is a 4 to 5 week delay. This is Apple's way of creating buzz about the Macbook Pro or any other product by manufacturing a false backlog. This is a marketing ploy. What is the most offensive thing Apple has done is raising the prices on these models by $300 to $500 depending on the configuration. A fully loaded Touch Bar 15" MBP can be over $4100. That's is insane. This maybe a great notebook but the Apple tax is just too damn much this time. PC's have comparable units with more choices & configurations. PC's are also cheaper by at least 1/2 to 2/3 of Apple prices.
I think a lot of the comments about the 3.55mm jack are not thinking about the full spectrum of uses on a laptop. If you read the original article he calls out some of the specific examples "These are pro machines. If it was just about headphones then it doesn’t need to be there, we believe that wireless is a great solution for headphones. But many users have setups with studio monitors, amps, and other pro audio gear that do not have wireless solutions and need the 3.5mm jack." Also, the jack also serves as a line in on the computer so there are a lot of audio products for getting audio into the PC using the 3.5mm jack as well as audio output.
Using a speaker-level output jack as an input to another device is not pro. It is underpowered for speaker driving purposes and has far more distortion than a line level output. At a minimum, in analog, pro is line level, but that's not really pro either. Pro is unbalanced XLR at +4dbm, which Apple would never implement because it's a very large jack. But most pro applications these days (aside from driving a speaker) are digital anyway.
If it's true that they've eliminated optical out, that's somewhat of a concern, but I suppose even that is not needed if one is going to get some digital audio output out of the USB-C ports. It just will be a PITA for anyone who is used to using the optical out.
Is there going to be a USB-C to HDMI dongle? Because eliminating HDMI output would be a big negative. I do like to plug a Mac into the TV every once in a while.
Apple has got to get over their obsession with thinness and their innate need to make the ports look totally consistent (thus the elimination of MagSave and the adoption of only one port type). Sometimes I think that Apple forgets that people just don't look at their machines, they actually do use them to accomplish things.
And a bit off-topic, but I'm still using a late-2008 MBP and it turns out it won't take Sierra. That's understandable, but I just ran the 10.11.6 security update the other day, and it screwed up a lot of stuff. I don't know how a security update can mess with so much. Apple becomes a bit more like Microsoft every day. It's disappointing.
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Ah you mean gameplay, not game production. I thought your claim was bolder. Let's see then: The only successful dedicated game machines are consoles. Playstation and Xbox. No one can deny this. Apple has succesfully evaded such a "gaming PC" black hole several decades ago. We know the outcomes of Atari and Amiga. I touched and played with these at the computer expos, I'm from that generation. There is no such thing as "gaming PC", this is an old illusion already resolved. The only real "gaming PCs" are those compiled by the kids and which are good as science homework. You cannot build an industry on that. With all due respect, you must be a casual gamer (like me) since you've given Half-Life 2 as example, an already bad game. I've just more faith in Mac gaming so I've spent some time to experiment with some games: Infinity Ward's graphics shine on the Mac, Treyarch's sucks (including BootCamp). They all use cross platform gaming engines, some shine on the Mac, some don't. Just like any other software...
If no one is asking for turnkey solutions from Apple for these industries then how Apple should spend more time with these? The only way to spend more time is to go into their minute specifics then that means a vertical solution. This is what I understand from your wording. Apple spends more time for everyone: an eBay seller's creative needs is not less important than another content creator's. Content creators are not the only professionals. What about pilots, fishers? So where and how do you draw the line? There is no line.
And Apple replies to all high-tech demands as best as it can. There is high-tech and low-tech. There is no professional and consumer. This is not a matter of wording, but a matter of approach.
heres an essay on this from 2010:
http://www.macworld.com/article/1151235/macs/apple-rolls.html
If what Phil is saying is correct and this is the fastest selling MBP to date, I see very little reason not to give some absolute figures. The fact he didn't offer any, and the fact he put on his fireman's jacket to send a message out (through an interview) on the controversy of the past few days is also worth noting. I'm glad someone at Apple is following the debate and am sure there are already plans afoot to offer something to users should sales flatten out. When people complained about iPhone pricing they took vey little time to chop a couple of hundred dollars off. Of course, that knarked those that had paid the full price since launch.
Let's wait those six months. I was in the market but they lost the sale to me. The UK will be a washout for obvious reasons.
nobody is blinded -- we just continue to receive value for our jobs to be done. i've been a mac user since the ][ and continue to be a professional using my macs today. no machines have done the job better for me (software and web dev). i don't use the ports you do so i sure as shit don't miss them. i think the more appropriate trade off is for you to use whatever adapters you need for your use cases than to make every user pay for them (not just in resources but in design compromises).
Dell workstations priced to MP equivalents were very similar in price, this was well written about.
enjoy Windows. have fun with the Nerd Rage....but don't forget to tell your kids you love them.
i don't care about magsafe when sitting at my desk. i rarely use ports. and i have never, EVER used a consumer SD card slot (real pros use compact flash, remember).
How do you define an iHater? Am I an iHater for criticising Apple? Would I deserve that label after decades as a Mac user? Are there iLovers? The goal posts haven't been moved. It's impossible to know how these machines will fare but the figures, as of today, are worthless. The period between the next earnings call and six months (next bump?) will be critical.
So, you only suspect. You don't actually know. How do you know it is a vocal minority? Have you looked into the future or something? What did you fix?
And what difference does six days make? What would you rather do? evaluate after six days or six months? Any time between the next earning's call and model bump would be the best time to evaluate sales. Not now. Please give some examples of people throwing temper tantrums. I haven't seen any so far. I've seen a ton of criticism on various aspects of these new models but always reasoned.
That must be the most immature post I've seen today. Wireless isn't the solution for everything nor should it be. For starters there are security issues that cabling will resolve. Interference issues that cables will resolve. Transfer speed issues that cabling will resolve etc. Wireless is great but sometimes cables are too. The iPhone has a lightning port. One of its functions is connecting it to a Mac. The criticism for eliminating the analogue headphone jack from the iPhone but not the new MBP is valid. As is the the criticism for needing a dongle to connect them together. It is perfectly valid.
There would be high demand for a tower system. Nothing new. Apple spent a long time making some of the best towers available. Now you have the Mac Pro, the Mini, the iMac and the laptops. There is a gaping hole in the line but they won't fill it, as customers would choose not to buy iMacs and having a screen (that Apple chooses for you) glued onto you desktop computer (even if you don't need it or like it) is not nice if you just want a nicely designed tower and monitor choice. Give me a Sawtooth 2 at a reasonable price and I'd be happy.
Hang on! Why could you possibly need more than 128GB SSD1 as we move into 2017! Just use iCloud to safeguard anything that might not fit on the local drive! Can't see that happening though as Apple wouldn't be shipping 128GB drives if they were insufficient. Or was it a typo?
If it's true that they've eliminated optical out, that's somewhat of a concern, but I suppose even that is not needed if one is going to get some digital audio output out of the USB-C ports. It just will be a PITA for anyone who is used to using the optical out.
Is there going to be a USB-C to HDMI dongle? Because eliminating HDMI output would be a big negative. I do like to plug a Mac into the TV every once in a while.
Apple has got to get over their obsession with thinness and their innate need to make the ports look totally consistent (thus the elimination of MagSave and the adoption of only one port type). Sometimes I think that Apple forgets that people just don't look at their machines, they actually do use them to accomplish things.
And a bit off-topic, but I'm still using a late-2008 MBP and it turns out it won't take Sierra. That's understandable, but I just ran the 10.11.6 security update the other day, and it screwed up a lot of stuff. I don't know how a security update can mess with so much. Apple becomes a bit more like Microsoft every day. It's disappointing.