I don't have problem paying premium for Apple's product including Macbook pro because it is designed and built right. Damn, Apple's products last very long time if not abused. As we all know, inside Macbook hardware is a moving target because Apple is held hostage by Intel's processor schedule. I would say let Apple ask more for upgrades but let base model be affordable around $1199 to millions of high school/college kids, man/woman using for home use and billions of windows/laptop haters. Corporations and professionals have different need so they would not mind paying for higher end, upgrades.
WHY are people so attached to USB-A connectors?! We've been complaining about them for years! Everyone celebrated when the USB-C connector was announced. Now we finally get them and people complain? I don't get it. The C connector is a massive improvement -- shouldn't we be glad to have them?
As for adapters, about the only common use case I can think of that might require one is flash drives. Those need to retain the A connector to plug into other computers. As for everything else, just replace the cable! $5-8 each at Monoprice. Not a big expense, not a hassle, and freedom from perpetual connector flipping!
As for the "transition," how would YOU do it? A machine with half good connectors and half shitty ones? How is that better than using a couple adapters for a while or just replacing a couple cables? Is there some benefit to that approach that I'm just not seeing?
It's obvious that USB-A, B, mini-B and Micro-B are going to be memories a year from now. Firewire already is. Do you want a machine with ports dedicated to things that no longer exist, or one with universal ports that can be used for everything from power to drives to networking to displays to whatever else comes out next week? I *MUCH* prefer the latter!
WHY are people so attached to USB-A connectors?! We've been complaining about them for years! Everyone celebrated when the USB-C connector was announced. Now we finally get them and people complain? I don't get it. The C connector is a massive improvement -- shouldn't we be glad to have them?
As for adapters, about the only common use case I can think of that might require one is flash drives. Those need to retain the A connector to plug into other computers. As for everything else, just replace the cable! $5-8 each at Monoprice. Not a big expense, not a hassle, and freedom from perpetual connector flipping!
As for the "transition," how would YOU do it? A machine with half good connectors and half shitty ones? How is that better than using a couple adapters for a while or just replacing a couple cables? Is there some benefit to that approach that I'm just not seeing?
It's obvious that USB-A, B, mini-B and Micro-B are going to be memories a year from now. Firewire already is. Do you want a machine with ports dedicated to things that no longer exist, or one with universal ports that can be used for everything from power to drives to networking to displays to whatever else comes out next week? I *MUCH* prefer the latter!
Although USB-C is better it doesn't make the others ones shitty. Yes, a smooth transition would have been simple by including two USB-C ports and the existing ports. Adapters are a pain. They break. They get lost. They get in the way. The ad bulk. They cost extra. Apple's aren't particularly great quality. They are generally very overpriced and sometimes are not 100% replacements for the ports they want to replace. It was entirely doable to have a mixed port spread but the quest for thinness and 'pure lines' (among other reasons) led them to go all USB-C.
Apple thought they could get away with it. If sales balloon, they will. If sales flatten out, they are in trouble.
Devices with the older ports will continue to be produced and with good reason. People will continue to purchase devices. USB-C will become the standard but it isn't that now.
Just maybe, if every company had fans and trolls as active as Apple's, maybe we would have a better world. In such a world, ms and goog would be booed off the stage rather than hyper-enthusiasm from a dull minority.
I'm not so sure this action by Apple was actually the right move: it sets a precedent and a new price on introducing new tech... but then again, Apple's peripherals have always been set deliberately too high.
They are doing this because Apple got a much bigger backlash of the New MACBOOKS than they expected...
They new Macbooks are so bad.... 1- They replaced a fantastic Mag-safe for a USB-c 2- You cannot connect your own iPhone iPad 3- They call it Pro, but it is limited to 16gb of RAM. 4- They removed the Thunderbolt 2 that they supposedly introduced... 5- They removed HDMI, USB and SD card. 6- PRice is ridiculously expensive. $500 for a new strip?
Hey you cannot connect jack s#@t, but it is thinner and lighter...!!
I guess most complaints are from those who were not around during other "big" changes...
SCSI, ADB, Serial, etc, etc...
If you can't handle the continual changes that happen in the tech market change to gardening.
I don't fall into that group. I went through the whole lot. It was unnecessary pain. Just as this 'transition' is. It's ironic that when users wanted USB 2, they didn't get it. They had to wait quite a while. Now Apple is doing the opposite. That's Apple. No need to listen to the user until sales get lost to the competition.
Apple internal slide from marketing for iPhone: we don't have what our customers want. In that case a larger screen. Another unnecessary wait. If Apple had done its homework this backlash would never have happened.
That said, if they don't get their pricing down, no end of ports will resolve this situation.
Maybe because one cannot, out of the box, connect the latest iPhone to the latest MacBook Pro. WiFi is not the answer to everything!
I agree with your points. I also think ten or twenty bucks for a new iPhone cable is a price worth paying to get the benefits of universal ports and having a machine that won't be saddled with connectors of decreasing utility in a couple years.
So they raise the pricing on the MacBook tiers $200 - $300 dollars across the board. Then look like Angels From Heaven because they gave you a $10 break on a USB Type-C cable. Even Steve Jobs at his most brilliant wasn't capable of this powerful new kind of Reality Distortion Field.
True. I think Apple should cut $200 off the new 15" MacBook Pros. Then that will encourage those who are spending on 13" machines just because the 15" is a HUGE jump in price to spend a bit more to get the 15" MacBook Pros.
This whole thing is unbelievably pedantic on Apple's part. Virtually none of the press release is even true. "We realize.." No, you don't.
"legacy connectors" - No, professional, necessary connectors.
"a transition" - No, Apple, you will make the transition, not others.
It is astounding that a "computer" cannot interface with USB or with a disc anymore. I am getting old! These are not real computers. They should cost $300 maximum.
I have superior equipment that is older (much of it Apple). With things like replaceable hard drives, replaceable batteries and upgradeable RAM. I am amazed that new equipment you buy today is inferior to what I have. My MBP has Firewire, several USB ports, optical out (which I use)... etc. And 1TB storage. And it was cheap! Rawr I am old, time for my nap.
If the older stuff is superior, then there is no need to upgrade. Right?
Awesome move by Apple. This SHOULD shut up most of the complaints, but of course it won't.
It's not like Apple is selling $500 laptops. There's two ways to look at this:
Apple has lost it's way regarding usability - criticism is warranted.
Ive may or may not be a good industrial designer but he clearly doesn't know much about the main concepts of usability - the "look, feel & flow" of a hardware/software product. We get the "look": but the "feel & flow"? - any sense of how it actually feels to use the product effectively day by day is missing from the designs. As zoetmb notes, Apple doesn't appear to use the devices they produce any more. We certainly don't see any pix of MBPs with cascades of dongles cluttering the user's desk.
Apple isn't losing anything accept for a sale or two initially. Apple has done this move before....and repeatedly. Apple is willing to stand on principle and moving the tech world forward over the hollering and griping of their users. They are doing standard Apple stuff.
Awesome move by Apple. This SHOULD shut up most of the complaints, but of course it won't.
It's not like Apple is selling $500 laptops. There's two ways to look at this:
Apple has lost it's way regarding usability - criticism is warranted.
Ive may or may not be a good industrial designer but he clearly doesn't know much about the main concepts of usability - the "look, feel & flow" of a hardware/software product. We get the "look": but the "feel & flow"? - any sense of how it actually feels to use the product effectively day by day is missing from the designs. As zoetmb notes, Apple doesn't appear to use the devices they produce any more. We certainly don't see any pix of MBPs with cascades of dongles cluttering the user's desk.
Apple isn't losing anything accept for a sale or two initially. Apple has done this move before....and repeatedly. Apple is willing to stand on principle and moving the tech world forward over the hollering and griping of their users. They are doing standard Apple stuff.
It took Fireman Phil just six days to organize an interview just send out a message to the users. Now they are cutting dongle prices (temporarily). The internet is ignoring most of the good in these macs because the bad outshines it. There are no end of parody videos popping up everywhere. What is strange is that a huge part of the criticism is coming from Apple's own users. Design changes and decisions aside, the biggest problem is that MANY users feel these macs are enormously overpriced or simply out of reach.
Apple will try to ride the storm but this time I think they won't be able to stand on principle. With only the iPhone 7 and the new MBPs here in time for Christmas and the rest of the line without a refresh but also overpriced and out of date, earnings could be impacted. Stormy weather might be just around the corner.
Awesome move by Apple. This SHOULD shut up most of the complaints, but of course it won't.
It's not like Apple is selling $500 laptops. There's two ways to look at this:
Apple has lost it's way regarding usability - criticism is warranted.
Ive may or may not be a good industrial designer but he clearly doesn't know much about the main concepts of usability - the "look, feel & flow" of a hardware/software product. We get the "look": but the "feel & flow"? - any sense of how it actually feels to use the product effectively day by day is missing from the designs. As zoetmb notes, Apple doesn't appear to use the devices they produce any more. We certainly don't see any pix of MBPs with cascades of dongles cluttering the user's desk.
Apple isn't losing anything accept for a sale or two initially. Apple has done this move before....and repeatedly. Apple is willing to stand on principle and moving the tech world forward over the hollering and griping of their users. They are doing standard Apple stuff.
It took Fireman Phil just six days to organize an interview just send out a message to the users. Now they are cutting dongle prices (temporarily). The internet is ignoring most of the good in these macs because the bad outshines it. There are no end of parody videos popping up everywhere. What is strange is that a huge part of the criticism is coming from Apple's own users. Design changes and decisions aside, the biggest problem is that MANY users feel these macs are enormously overpriced or simply out of reach.
Apple will try to ride the storm but this time I think they won't be able to stand on principle. With only the iPhone 7 and the new MBPs here in time for Christmas and the rest of the line without a refresh but also overpriced and out of date, earnings could be impacted. Stormy weather might be just around the corner.
You got it avon b7 - adonissmu doesn't. Apple used to understand the importance of "look, feel & flow" usability - it doesn't these days. Anyone can do an unusable "Windows" version of a hardware/software interface but Apple used to do better - stormy weather ahead indeed.
As for the "transition," how would YOU do it? A machine with half good connectors and half shitty ones? How is that better than using a couple adapters for a while or just replacing a couple cables? Is there some benefit to that approach that I'm just not seeing?
It was good enough for all of the previous port transitions in Apple's PowerBook and MacBook Pro series. And in those cases, the "outgoing" port was already seldom used. Contrast this with the USB A port which is still THE standard for practically everything. That will change over time, but that's also why in the past Apple has always provided a transition model that had both ports included. To allow customers and orderly transition to the new standard.
At the very minimum, it was extremely thoughtless of Apple to not at least include a single A-to-C adapter since I'm sure an extremely high percentage of MBP purchasers are going to have at least one A device they'll need to connect (contrast with the iPhone audio adapter which most people probably will never use because they will just use the Lightning earbuds or wireless, but it's included in the box anyway).
Awesome move by Apple. This SHOULD shut up most of the complaints, but of course it won't.
Buy an iPhone for $649 to $949 and you get a FREE adapter to use your existing headphones with the new iPhone 7. Buy a $2,000+ laptop and you are forced to buy TWO new adapter cables to use your iPhone and existing USB devices. Apple increased the price of the new laptops and now require the customer to fork out more money for cables and dongles to use their existing devices. Apple should have included a lightning to USB-C and a USB-A to USB-C cable in the box of all new MacBook Pros so customers can use their existing devices. This a dumbass move by Apple and of course you think it is so great because you are so ignorant to reality. You do realize that Apple INCREASED the price of the new MacBook Pros, rather than keep them at the same price point. There was nothing innovative in these new models. A substandard keyboard, the same processors, and ports that require dongles. People have a valid reason to complain.
Awesome move by Apple. This SHOULD shut up most of the complaints, but of course it won't.
That's not why they are complaining. They complain because in their world they think that complaining means they are being critical and they've erroneously related being critical with critical thinking.
If Apple just did a spec bump and kept all the current ports they would've complained that Apple isn't innovating or moving forward.
If Apple spent years in R&D creating synergies with HW and SW, including developer APIs, that allowed for a new Apple chip running bridgeOS (based on watchOS) that allows for a innovative way to increase performance on your Mac with a Touch Bar, Touch ID, and Apple Pay they called it a gimmick; then they say that Apple stole it from someone else; and finally when others do it they'll say that it was obvious all along.
I haven't read any other comment after yours in this thread, but I bet many are saying this proves that USB-C is a flop even though it's the most future-forward, universal, reversible, robust, versatile port interface that will support fast charging I/O, high-speed data I/O, display-out, and innumerable protocols for a very long time to come. It could even exceed that of the USB-A port and not require any of the other wonky USB port interfaces to clog up our computing future.
The future is bright but these people don't have the capacity to past yesterday. That's how these people work. There is no pleasing them. They hate success.
Comments
As for adapters, about the only common use case I can think of that might require one is flash drives. Those need to retain the A connector to plug into other computers. As for everything else, just replace the cable! $5-8 each at Monoprice. Not a big expense, not a hassle, and freedom from perpetual connector flipping!
As for the "transition," how would YOU do it? A machine with half good connectors and half shitty ones? How is that better than using a couple adapters for a while or just replacing a couple cables? Is there some benefit to that approach that I'm just not seeing?
It's obvious that USB-A, B, mini-B and Micro-B are going to be memories a year from now. Firewire already is. Do you want a machine with ports dedicated to things that no longer exist, or one with universal ports that can be used for everything from power to drives to networking to displays to whatever else comes out next week? I *MUCH* prefer the latter!
Apple thought they could get away with it. If sales balloon, they will. If sales flatten out, they are in trouble.
Devices with the older ports will continue to be produced and with good reason. People will continue to purchase devices. USB-C will become the standard but it isn't that now.
The new Macbook is so bad, that you cannot connect your own iPhone or iPad... Really???
Simply wrong...
They new Macbooks are so bad....
1- They replaced a fantastic Mag-safe for a USB-c
2- You cannot connect your own iPhone iPad
3- They call it Pro, but it is limited to 16gb of RAM.
4- They removed the Thunderbolt 2 that they supposedly introduced...
5- They removed HDMI, USB and SD card.
6- PRice is ridiculously expensive. $500 for a new strip?
Hey you cannot connect jack s#@t, but it is thinner and lighter...!!
Apple PR is o full of Kr4p....
Just trying to make lame excuses for a bad design will not take them that far....
Many long time Apple users (like me), sadly are now seriously looking at surface and surface studio...
As a rule, I agree. Not in this case though. I happen to think the A connector is annoying and am glad to see it go.
I get your point, though.
Apple internal slide from marketing for iPhone: we don't have what our customers want. In that case a larger screen. Another unnecessary wait. If Apple had done its homework this backlash would never have happened.
That said, if they don't get their pricing down, no end of ports will resolve this situation.
I agree with your points. I also think ten or twenty bucks for a new iPhone cable is a price worth paying to get the benefits of universal ports and having a machine that won't be saddled with connectors of decreasing utility in a couple years.
Apple will try to ride the storm but this time I think they won't be able to stand on principle. With only the iPhone 7 and the new MBPs here in time for Christmas and the rest of the line without a refresh but also overpriced and out of date, earnings could be impacted. Stormy weather might be just around the corner.
At the very minimum, it was extremely thoughtless of Apple to not at least include a single A-to-C adapter since I'm sure an extremely high percentage of MBP purchasers are going to have at least one A device they'll need to connect (contrast with the iPhone audio adapter which most people probably will never use because they will just use the Lightning earbuds or wireless, but it's included in the box anyway).
If Apple just did a spec bump and kept all the current ports they would've complained that Apple isn't innovating or moving forward.
If Apple spent years in R&D creating synergies with HW and SW, including developer APIs, that allowed for a new Apple chip running bridgeOS (based on watchOS) that allows for a innovative way to increase performance on your Mac with a Touch Bar, Touch ID, and Apple Pay they called it a gimmick; then they say that Apple stole it from someone else; and finally when others do it they'll say that it was obvious all along.
I haven't read any other comment after yours in this thread, but I bet many are saying this proves that USB-C is a flop even though it's the most future-forward, universal, reversible, robust, versatile port interface that will support fast charging I/O, high-speed data I/O, display-out, and innumerable protocols for a very long time to come. It could even exceed that of the USB-A port and not require any of the other wonky USB port interfaces to clog up our computing future.