They use that security info to send people who they team unruly or "disrupt state cohesion" to slave labor camps or kill them. If the Nazis were making iPhones & consumer goods would you buy them? Your basically supporting torture and Communist regime ideals so you can have the next iPhone whatever every damn 6 months.
They use that security info to send people who they team unruly or "disrupt state cohesion" to slave labor camps or kill them. If the Nazis were making iPhones & consumer goods would you buy them? Your basically supporting torture and Communist regime ideals so you can have the next iPhone whatever every damn 6 months.
Of all the stupid things in your post I'm most offended that you don't know new iPhones are released annually.
I'm just spitballing here, but I fail to see why Apple, or anyone else for that matter should have to shoulder the responsibility of whether a person's phone is being used for nefarious or legal activities.
It seems to me that Apple should be able to provide their phone with all the security and functions they envision for their customers. The end user should then be required to purchase "an app for that" or enable those security features themselves. If a government does not allow secure devices in their respective country, you have the choice to not enter those countries or not use that device in that country.
That way it is out of the hands of any company to have to be everything to all people, which is impossible not to mention unreasonable to expect. More importantly, it shifts the matter of an individuals right to privacy into the hands of those that it effects--the people. That way, we will need to use our voices to "say no", and to use our votes to choose who respects our rights as citizens of that government.
I strongly feel that we need to stop looking to Apple, or anyone else to fight such an individual and important fight.
The Chinese government is a hack of an entity. Boot their backsides out of the WTO. I'm still amazed that the citizens of that country still stand idly by while the government intrudes in every part of their lives.
Well this will be interesting. Cook was prepared to defy the FBI in the US to protect privacy. Let's see how far he'll go in China.
No this will be boring and depressive: there is no way around this in China. The FBI was easy to defy because the US isn't China: Apple's stance triggered a public discussion. We probably won't find out much about it either because Apple will have no interest in detailing exactly how they will have to cave in to the Chinese government's demand.
The only way around it would be to abandon China - like Google has done by the way back in 2010. Among the multi-nationals they are the only ones who won't be affected much by these rules because they already paid the cost of losing the Chinese market in 2010.
Duh. Sure US FBI was easy. As we saw that you can have classified documents on personal server and still get away from FBI. Not so easy in China I guess. Negligence might end up with decades of prison.
Well this will be interesting. Cook was prepared to defy the FBI in the US to protect privacy. Let's see how far he'll go in China.
No this will be boring and depressive: there is no way around this in China. The FBI was easy to defy because the US isn't China: Apple's stance triggered a public discussion. We probably won't find out much about it either because Apple will have no interest in detailing exactly how they will have to cave in to the Chinese government's demand.
The only way around it would be to abandon China - like Google has done by the way back in 2010. Among the multi-nationals they are the only ones who won't be affected much by these rules because they already paid the cost of losing the Chinese market in 2010.
Exactly right on all counts. Either Apple complies or Apple is gone.
Apple has always been clear that they follow the laws of the countries in which they operate. In some sense, well duh. But it's important to keep in mind. In countries like the US there are ways to legally challenge the government. But in places like China it's either impossible or much, much harder.
To Westcoaster: The Chinese government wants to selectively snoop in on any HTTPS session or secure messaging whenever it pleases. You cannot just tell your Chinese customers not to use HTTPS or download a special app for that - even in dictatorships you need to use HTTPS most of the time to protect yourself against criminals stealing your credit card number etc - even the Chinese government realizes that.
There is no way around it: if Apple wants to do business in China they have to become complicit in supporting essentially an API for all the censorship demands of the Chinese government. The Chinese government will then be able to access any iCloud data that it deems interesting. There is no clean way around it other than stopping to do business there (which by the way is a perfectly honorable choice and might be preferable to accommodating the demand of the Chinese government which are bound to escalate as that country becomes increasingly authoritarian under its current President).
Apple's growth in recent years came to a large degree from China and this was always a deal with the devil as they say.
To Westcoaster: The Chinese government wants to selectively snoop in on any HTTPS session or secure messaging whenever it pleases. You cannot just tell your Chinese customers not to use HTTPS or download a special app for that - even in dictatorships you need to use HTTPS most of the time to protect yourself against criminals stealing your credit card number etc - even the Chinese government realizes that.
There is no way around it: if Apple wants to do business in China they have to become complicit in supporting essentially an API for all the censorship demands of the Chinese government. The Chinese government will then be able to access any iCloud data that it deems interesting. There is no clean way around it other than stopping to do business there (which by the way is a perfectly honorable choice and might be preferable to accommodating the demand of the Chinese government which are bound to escalate as that country becomes increasingly authoritarian under its current President).
Apple's growth in recent years came to a large degree from China and this was always a deal with the devil as they say.
Agreed. If they bend, apple will show everyone that they are putting profit ahead of all they stand for. If they do, the Feds will certainly take note and when the next terrorist act comes around they'll be expecting reciprocity. Eventually the backdoor issue will land in the Supreme Court.
Well this will be interesting. Cook was prepared to defy the FBI in the US to protect privacy. Let's see how far he'll go in China.
No this will be boring and depressive: there is no way around this in China. The FBI was easy to defy because the US isn't China: Apple's stance triggered a public discussion. We probably won't find out much about it either because Apple will have no interest in detailing exactly how they will have to cave in to the Chinese government's demand.
The only way around it would be to abandon China - like Google has done by the way back in 2010. Among the multi-nationals they are the only ones who won't be affected much by these rules because they already paid the cost of losing the Chinese market in 2010.
Exactly right on all counts. Either Apple complies or Apple is gone.
Apple has always been clear that they follow the laws of the countries in which they operate. In some sense, well duh. But it's important to keep in mind. In countries like the US there are ways to legally challenge the government. But in places like China it's either impossible or much, much harder.
Pretty simple then, no?
Leave the market.
You can't have principles "on demand".
Who would be made better off from Apple leaving the market? I cannot think of anyone -- that seems lose-lose to me.
The answer might be that the users of iPhone in China will be warned: "Due to government regulation we cannot guarantee the privacy of the data in China." The US has a concept of privacy. Obviously, it is not so in China or any other non-democratic countries.
The answer might be that the users of iPhone in China will be warned: "Due to government regulation we cannot guarantee the privacy of the data in China." The US has a concept of privacy. Obviously, it is not so in China or any other non-democratic countries.
So you think they should just cave in and make a disclaimer about it??
I wonder how Steve would handle this, the real question is what's the plan, I'm sure Tim saw this coming a long time ago and began planing for it, guess we'll see
I'm sure Microsoft, Apple and hundreds of other foreign companies have already planned how to comply as it's been in the works for over a year. Personally I doubt any company making significant profits in China will bolt that market as result of the new security laws.
I think Steve would've told Chinese authorities to go screw themselves before Apple would ever make any security or product design concessions.
The Chinese government is a hack of an entity. Boot their backsides out of the WTO. I'm still amazed that the citizens of that country still stand idly by while the government intrudes in every part of their lives.
Except China has a long history of authoritarian government and no guaranteed property or individual rights.
In the long run, the digital privacy will always be violated either by the government or private sector hackers. It seems to me that the one solution for user privacy is that the data resides on the device for a short period to back it up elsewhere before it auto-destructs. The main problem is that there is no safe place for data to hide on the net! We have finally arrived at the George Orwell's 1984!!
I could see them issuing reminders when customers sign up for iCloud in China, or just killing iCloud in China. Or making as much as is possible encrypted and beyond their capacity to read.
Apple has never been opposed to following the laws in the US. This is nonsense that was put out there by extremists and probably Android fans. Apple legally had a right to challenge a lower court ruling and was prepared to keep that challenge till either the Supreme Court ruled on it or Congress passed a law forcing them to turn over these data. If China passes a law compelling them to do this, I suspect that they will find a way to do so for China. If the US passes a law to do or if the SC states that they must then I am sure they will do so as well.
Comments
It seems to me that Apple should be able to provide their phone with all the security and functions they envision for their customers. The end user should then be required to purchase "an app for that" or enable those security features themselves. If a government does not allow secure devices in their respective country, you have the choice to not enter those countries or not use that device in that country.
That way it is out of the hands of any company to have to be everything to all people, which is impossible not to mention unreasonable to expect. More importantly, it shifts the matter of an individuals right to privacy into the hands of those that it effects--the people. That way, we will need to use our voices to "say no", and to use our votes to choose who respects our rights as citizens of that government.
I strongly feel that we need to stop looking to Apple, or anyone else to fight such an individual and important fight.
There is no way around it: if Apple wants to do business in China they have to become complicit in supporting essentially an API for all the censorship demands of the Chinese government. The Chinese government will then be able to access any iCloud data that it deems interesting. There is no clean way around it other than stopping to do business there (which by the way is a perfectly honorable choice and might be preferable to accommodating the demand of the Chinese government which are bound to escalate as that country becomes increasingly authoritarian under its current President).
Apple's growth in recent years came to a large degree from China and this was always a deal with the devil as they say.
*china itself is interesting and I've spent a couple weeks there, so no hate please.
They should then make clear to the rest of world that Apple China in no way reflects Apple Inc's values or practices.