Still using a 2011 MacBook Pro that is showing no signs of age whatsoever.
Actually my early 2011 MBP does show signs of age. It still uses USB2 and FW800 and the only way to get faster I/O is to spend $200 on a Thunderbolt dock (connected via the Thunderbolt mini-DisplayPort on my model). My question is whether I should continue to dump money into an almost 6 year old laptop or take that money and put it towards a much newer (2015 or 2016) MBP. I've already replaced the hard drive at least twice (crappy Seagate drives) and maxed it out with RAM. The only thing left is a SSD and the Thunderbolt dock. Combined (OWC, 1T SSD, TB2 dock on sale, several rebates) that cost would be $560. That's 1/6th the price of a new 15" MBP with 1TB SSD, which would knock the socks off my 2011 MBP. Of course, I'd get a TB dock anyway so all I'd really be spending is $360 for the 1TD SSD.
These Macs are just too darned reliable! By the time they need service some five years down the road, the jig is up.
The "vintage" and "obsolete" monikers will impact resale and ROI. I understand Apple's need to limit the number of models that its repair guys must stay on top of. Any individual model could require dozens of different types of repairs and having to stay on top of hundreds of procedures and stock tons of parts for older machines is impractical. It still bites, though. Apple's goal is to get the local Apple Store people to take care of 90% of repairs and, unlike Apple's dedicated repair facilities, there aren't enough repair people at an Apple Store to have someone who could specialize in old machines.
Unlike personal machines (which people tend to replace every three years or so) machines in work environments do not tend to be replaced on a regular basis. My machine at work is an early 2010 Mac Pro. It does the job, although a speed bump would certainly help with video work, but am I prepared to ask the boss to let me spend $4K on a new machine (particularly when the latest MacPro is several years old)? Nope.
The last Windows XP machine here (that is, an office machine - not the last XP machine on the factory floor) was replaced with a new PC just a year ago. Windows Vista - the OS that was supposed to replace XP – came out ten years ago. I won't see a new machine until the current one is eight to ten years old.
I wish you were right but I'm not be disingenuous at all. The MacPros they released in 2013 are the exact same ones they are selling today. No update, no speed bumps, nothing. and to top it all off, they are selling them at the same price as they were in 2013. Meanwhile, Dell, and HP have updated their competing workstations twice in that time. In other words, Intel has updated the processor that goes into the MacPro twice (E5v4 vs E5v2) but Apple chose to ignore to speed bump them.
Your post is 100% factual. Everything you say in this post is indisputable. Yet you got a "dislike" for it. I conclude that some people dislike facts that fail to fit with their opinions. i think that's a big part of why Kosh said that humans aren't ready for immortality and why a person paraphrasing a German physicist (never directly quote German physicists --paraphrase only) said that science progresses one funeral at a time.
Yah... This is the only site that I've seen that this happens. Either there are a lot of Apple employees that lurk around here or these people don't really care about Apple at all. Just a defend at all cost attitude around here. When I think Apple can do better, I state my opinion. Sometimes the truth hurts but its truthful critical comments that makes companies better, that is if they actually listen and care to improve. The handling of the Mac Pro and the Pro market the last few years has been disappointing to say the least. They either got to do way better or communicate that they are no longer interested in this market. You are only as good as your weakest product and their neglect of the minis and pros are harming the entire brand.
My point about the currently selling 2013 MacPro becoming vintage soon is more to show the disarray in their computer line up than to say they will actually make it vintage. If their philosophy is that 5 year old tech is not good enough to support, then why are they selling 3+ year old tech as new.
I wish you were right but I'm not be disingenuous at all. The MacPros they released in 2013 are the exact same ones they are selling today. No update, no speed bumps, nothing. and to top it all off, they are selling them at the same price as they were in 2013. Meanwhile, Dell, and HP have updated their competing workstations twice in that time. In other words, Intel has updated the processor that goes into the MacPro twice (E5v4 vs E5v2) but Apple chose to ignore to speed bump them.
Your post is 100% factual. Everything you say in this post is indisputable. Yet you got a "dislike" for it. I conclude that some people dislike facts that fail to fit with their opinions. i think that's a big part of why Kosh said that humans aren't ready for immortality and why a person paraphrasing a German physicist (never directly quote German physicists --paraphrase only) said that science progresses one funeral at a time.
Yah... This is the only site that I've seen that this happens. Either there are a lot of Apple employees that lurk around here or these people don't really care about Apple at all. Just a defend at all cost attitude around here. When I think Apple can do better, I state my opinion. Sometimes the truth hurts but its truthful critical comments that makes companies better, that is if they actually listen and care to improve. The handling of the Mac Pro and the Pro market the last few years has been disappointing to say the least. They either got to do way better or communicate that they are no longer interested in this market. You are only as good as your weakest product and their neglect of the minis and pros are harming the entire brand.
My point about the currently selling 2013 MacPro becoming vintage soon is more to show the disarray in their computer line up than to say they will actually make it vintage. If their philosophy is that 5 year old tech is not good enough to support, then why are they selling 3+ year old tech as new.
Just thinking out loud now...
I never imagined that macOS licensing would return, nor did I really want it to.
But I find myself wondering now if maybe it is the best feasible option, at least for every desktop that is not an iMac.
Perhaps it wouldn't be as wide open as in the 90s. Perhaps Apple could pick a single, favored vendor (maybe the nice people at OWC?). That vendor could build a range of desktops -- maybe even servers -- that run macOS.
It would free Apple of the (apparently insurmountable) burden of exercising minimum competence in keeping a line of desktop computers up to date while meeting the needs of customers Apple clearly couldn't care less about serving. The OS licensing revenue would be trivial, but maybe the benefit to Apple would be that people like us would stop complaining.
The Mac Pro is pretty much an embarrassment for Apple. So much chest beating about innovation and then they left the thing (one of their flagship Macs) to rot. 'Innovation' in stops and starts and unnecessary innovation at that. Did we really need the trash can shape? Was it really such an across the board improvement over the old design?
They may have backed themselves into a corner. They could have freshened up the design but they didn't. Now, if they redesign it again we will be in a Cube like situation and it would be labelled a failure on many counts - so innovative that it lasted just one generation. It's a lose lose situation' as things stand.
They could have cut the price to stimulate demand but who would they sell them to?' Can we assume that anyone interested in a Mac Pro would already have one or not want one (at least in the absence of deep price cuts) if a new model is months away. Perhaps that's a big if.
And if sales are near non existent, what's going on at the US plant where they are put together? Is there actually much going on there? Is any other product assembled there?
I suppose they could switch part of dongle manufacturing to the US to keep the workers busy and ease the load on those whacked out Chinese workforces that can't keep up with dongle demand. ;-)
The Mac Pro is pretty much an embarrassment for Apple. So much chest beating about innovation and then they left the thing (one of their flagship Macs) to rot. 'Innovation' in stops and starts and unnecessary innovation at that. Did we really need the trash can shape? Was it really such an across the board improvement over the old design?
They may have backed themselves into a corner. They could have freshened up the design but they didn't. Now, if they redesign it again we will be in a Cube like situation and it would be labelled a failure on many counts - so innovative that it lasted just one generation. It's a lose lose situation' as things stand.
They could have cut the price to stimulate demand but who would they sell them to?' Can we assume that anyone interested in a Mac Pro would already have one or not want one (at least in the absence of deep price cuts) if a new model is months away. Perhaps that's a big if.
And if sales are near non existent, what's going on at the US plant where they are put together? Is there actually much going on there? Is any other product assembled there?
I suppose they could switch part of dongle manufacturing to the US to keep the workers busy and ease the load on those whacked out Chinese workforces that can't keep up with dongle demand. ;-)
I think I have solutions to all these problems.
1. Nobody outside of pros really pays attention to this anyway, so just come out with an apology and switch back to the aluminum tower. I think the long suffering pros would be bowled over by an apology and the re-introduction of an appropriate form factor. So no embarrassment -- just appreciation from a tiny group of loud nobodies.
2. Have Jony Ive personally sign every remaining Mac Pro in stock and include a free copy of his coffee table book. The vast majority of Appleinsider commenters would rush at the opportunity to buy anything Saint Jony puts in front of them. heck, Apple wouldn't even have to cut the price of the Mac Pro.
3. The US workers could focus on custom building aluminum towers.
I wish you were right but I'm not be disingenuous at all. The MacPros they released in 2013 are the exact same ones they are selling today. No update, no speed bumps, nothing. and to top it all off, they are selling them at the same price as they were in 2013. Meanwhile, Dell, and HP have updated their competing workstations twice in that time. In other words, Intel has updated the processor that goes into the MacPro twice (E5v4 vs E5v2) but Apple chose to ignore to speed bump them.
Your post is 100% factual. Everything you say in this post is indisputable. Yet you got a "dislike" for it. I conclude that some people dislike facts that fail to fit with their opinions. i think that's a big part of why Kosh said that humans aren't ready for immortality and why a person paraphrasing a German physicist (never directly quote German physicists --paraphrase only) said that science progresses one funeral at a time.
Yah... This is the only site that I've seen that this happens. Either there are a lot of Apple employees that lurk around here or these people don't really care about Apple at all. Just a defend at all cost attitude around here. When I think Apple can do better, I state my opinion. Sometimes the truth hurts but its truthful critical comments that makes companies better, that is if they actually listen and care to improve. The handling of the Mac Pro and the Pro market the last few years has been disappointing to say the least. They either got to do way better or communicate that they are no longer interested in this market. You are only as good as your weakest product and their neglect of the minis and pros are harming the entire brand.
My point about the currently selling 2013 MacPro becoming vintage soon is more to show the disarray in their computer line up than to say they will actually make it vintage. If their philosophy is that 5 year old tech is not good enough to support, then why are they selling 3+ year old tech as new.
Just thinking out loud now...
I never imagined that macOS licensing would return, nor did I really want it to.
But I find myself wondering now if maybe it is the best feasible option, at least for every desktop that is not an iMac.
Perhaps it wouldn't be as wide open as in the 90s. Perhaps Apple could pick a single, favored vendor (maybe the nice people at OWC?). That wvendor could build a range of desktops -- maybe even servers -- that run macOS.
It would free Apple of the (apparently insurmountable) burden of exercising minimum competence in keeping a line of desktop computers up to date while meeting the needs of customers Apple clearly couldn't care less about serving. The OS licensing revenue would be trivial, but maybe the benefit to Apple would be that people like us would stop complaining.
As things stand today, Apple cannot licence OSX because if it did, Power Computing would jump out of its grave and promptly dump Apple in its OSX hardware coffin.
The Mac Pro is pretty much an embarrassment for Apple. So much chest beating about innovation and then they left the thing (one of their flagship Macs) to rot. 'Innovation' in stops and starts and unnecessary innovation at that. Did we really need the trash can shape? Was it really such an across the board improvement over the old design?
They may have backed themselves into a corner. They could have freshened up the design but they didn't. Now, if they redesign it again we will be in a Cube like situation and it would be labelled a failure on many counts - so innovative that it lasted just one generation. It's a lose lose situation' as things stand.
They could have cut the price to stimulate demand but who would they sell them to?' Can we assume that anyone interested in a Mac Pro would already have one or not want one (at least in the absence of deep price cuts) if a new model is months away. Perhaps that's a big if.
And if sales are near non existent, what's going on at the US plant where they are put together? Is there actually much going on there? Is any other product assembled there?
I suppose they could switch part of dongle manufacturing to the US to keep the workers busy and ease the load on those whacked out Chinese workforces that can't keep up with dongle demand. ;-)
I think I have solutions to all these problems.
1. Nobody outside of pros really pays attention to this anyway, so just come out with an apology and switch back to the aluminum tower. I think the long suffering pros would be bowled over by an apology and the re-introduction of an appropriate form factor. So no embarrassment -- just appreciation from a tiny group of loud nobodies.
2. Have Jony Ive personally sign every remaining Mac Pro in stock and include a free copy of his coffee table book. The vast majority of Appleinsider commenters would rush at the opportunity to buy anything Saint Jony puts in front of them. heck, Apple wouldn't even have to cut the price of the Mac Pro.
3. The US workers could focus on custom building aluminum towers.
As things stand today, Apple cannot licence OSX because if it did, Power Computing would jump out of its grave and promptly dump Apple in its OSX hardware coffin.
Pulllllllease Apple, bring back the 17" laptop. I've got to have the real estate to do what I do!
And... making a premium priced computer that is perfectly good obsolete is nothing short of a sin. When you can't even get Safari updates that's manipulative. As a stockholder I'm appalled by this practice.
Anyone hanging onto an old machine with the expresscard slot can have usb3.0. There is a card on ebay from a company called 'nanotech' and it works perfectly. The chipset is supported by apple so you don't even need to install anything... just pop the card in and you have usb3. This has breathed new life into my 2010 17" MBP. I have no plans on 'upgrading' until the 8GB ram becomes unbearable... at least you 2011 guys have 16GB capability!
Comments
Actually my early 2011 MBP does show signs of age. It still uses USB2 and FW800 and the only way to get faster I/O is to spend $200 on a Thunderbolt dock (connected via the Thunderbolt mini-DisplayPort on my model). My question is whether I should continue to dump money into an almost 6 year old laptop or take that money and put it towards a much newer (2015 or 2016) MBP. I've already replaced the hard drive at least twice (crappy Seagate drives) and maxed it out with RAM. The only thing left is a SSD and the Thunderbolt dock. Combined (OWC, 1T SSD, TB2 dock on sale, several rebates) that cost would be $560. That's 1/6th the price of a new 15" MBP with 1TB SSD, which would knock the socks off my 2011 MBP. Of course, I'd get a TB dock anyway so all I'd really be spending is $360 for the 1TD SSD.
The "vintage" and "obsolete" monikers will impact resale and ROI. I understand Apple's need to limit the number of models that its repair guys must stay on top of. Any individual model could require dozens of different types of repairs and having to stay on top of hundreds of procedures and stock tons of parts for older machines is impractical. It still bites, though. Apple's goal is to get the local Apple Store people to take care of 90% of repairs and, unlike Apple's dedicated repair facilities, there aren't enough repair people at an Apple Store to have someone who could specialize in old machines.
Unlike personal machines (which people tend to replace every three years or so) machines in work environments do not tend to be replaced on a regular basis. My machine at work is an early 2010 Mac Pro. It does the job, although a speed bump would certainly help with video work, but am I prepared to ask the boss to let me spend $4K on a new machine (particularly when the latest MacPro is several years old)? Nope.
The last Windows XP machine here (that is, an office machine - not the last XP machine on the factory floor) was replaced with a new PC just a year ago. Windows Vista - the OS that was supposed to replace XP – came out ten years ago. I won't see a new machine until the current one is eight to ten years old.
My point about the currently selling 2013 MacPro becoming vintage soon is more to show the disarray in their computer line up than to say they will actually make it vintage. If their philosophy is that 5 year old tech is not good enough to support, then why are they selling 3+ year old tech as new.
I never imagined that macOS licensing would return, nor did I really want it to.
But I find myself wondering now if maybe it is the best feasible option, at least for every desktop that is not an iMac.
Perhaps it wouldn't be as wide open as in the 90s. Perhaps Apple could pick a single, favored vendor (maybe the nice people at OWC?). That vendor could build a range of desktops -- maybe even servers -- that run macOS.
It would free Apple of the (apparently insurmountable) burden of exercising minimum competence in keeping a line of desktop computers up to date while meeting the needs of customers Apple clearly couldn't care less about serving. The OS licensing revenue would be trivial, but maybe the benefit to Apple would be that people like us would stop complaining.
They may have backed themselves into a corner. They could have freshened up the design but they didn't. Now, if they redesign it again we will be in a Cube like situation and it would be labelled a failure on many counts - so innovative that it lasted just one generation. It's a lose lose situation' as things stand.
They could have cut the price to stimulate demand but who would they sell them to?' Can we assume that anyone interested in a Mac Pro would already have one or not want one (at least in the absence of deep price cuts) if a new model is months away. Perhaps that's a big if.
And if sales are near non existent, what's going on at the US plant where they are put together? Is there actually much going on there? Is any other product assembled there?
I suppose they could switch part of dongle manufacturing to the US to keep the workers busy and ease the load on those whacked out Chinese workforces that can't keep up with dongle demand. ;-)
1. Nobody outside of pros really pays attention to this anyway, so just come out with an apology and switch back to the aluminum tower. I think the long suffering pros would be bowled over by an apology and the re-introduction of an appropriate form factor. So no embarrassment -- just appreciation from a tiny group of loud nobodies.
2. Have Jony Ive personally sign every remaining Mac Pro in stock and include a free copy of his coffee table book. The vast majority of Appleinsider commenters would rush at the opportunity to buy anything Saint Jony puts in front of them. heck, Apple wouldn't even have to cut the price of the Mac Pro.
3. The US workers could focus on custom building aluminum towers.
4. Heh... you said "dongle"... heh heh heh...
It would be good for users though.
And... making a premium priced computer that is perfectly good obsolete is nothing short of a sin. When you can't even get Safari updates that's manipulative. As a stockholder I'm appalled by this practice.