I really don't get the impression that Apple is thinking big anymore. Yes, there are lots of individual pieces of hardware, software, services that are nice and useful in and of themselves, but it's all over the map but I am not seeing an organizing principle, or a big picture, yet. An iMeta, if you will.
I think Apple is not only "thinking big" but possibly thinking too big at times. They could have released BT headphones in the past, but they waited for AirPods with its multitude of advancements to leap far ahead of everyone else. They could've released the new MBPs with some basic updates, but they waited for the complex Touch Bar, Touch ID, Apple Pay, a T1-chip that runs a discreet version of OS X based on watchOS, with appropriate macOS SW and Xcode API integration. All I see is Apple thinking big when they could probably profit better by doing some less grandiose releases along the way.
If Amazon's recent attempt to introduce Echo into the UK is anything to go by Apple shouldn't worry. I ordered an Echo but had to return it as it would not connect to my BT Home Hub. The reason given was that the Echo could not connect to a dual band wifi router. BT provide something like 1 in 3 broadband connections, so that is a massive reduction in the customer base. Those luckily enough to connect then complained that many of the services available in the USA were unavailable in the U.K. A very poor experience from Amazon but at least getting a refund was easy.
I can do all this crap with my iPhone that is always with me. or better my Apple Watch.
No. No you can't.
Like what? what can't i do with my phone/watch that this can?
Geez, where does one begin. Can you say, "Hey Siri, order me x," or "Hey Siri, where's my stuff?" to automatically order or check on your packages from Amazon with a simple, single voice command?
Or, instead of detailing a million different features that Echo/Alexa has over Siri, how about you read an review about something other than an Apple product from time to time? Education is a good thing.
Geez, where does one begin. Can you say, "Hey Siri, order me x," or "Hey Siri, where's my stuff?" to automatically order or check on your packages from Amazon with a simple, single voice command?
Or, instead of detailing a million different features that Echo/Alexa has over Siri, how about you read an review about something other than an Apple product from time to time? Education is a good thing.
This is called Generation C. C stands for crap. The more crap you can buy the better.
People really like their Amazon echo, and that's a natural fact. And hey, who wouldn't want a hi-end internet connected Android-secure microphone in their living room, connected directly to Amazon.com? But seriously, they do seem to like it & it appears to work pretty doggone well. Cheers!
I love my Echo. I got lucky and was a very early adopter*. It's brilliant in how well it can listen and how fast it can respond. It's so fast that it doesn't feel like it's using the Internet at all to send and receive data. I've even found a couple great Skills (think of them like apps, browser extensions or plug-ins) that make it even better.
Loud speakers, easily connects to my iPhone for playback, amazing microphones that can pick up a morning mumble from across the room, and even pick up commands whilst music is playing.
Their iPhone app is nice as it shows you every command you've made and let's you submit them if there's an issue. It's definitely more accurate than Siri, even if it's database of knowledge is more limited (but that's something I noted when it first launched, I have no idea how it compares to Siri's knowledge-base now.)
I haven't used the the Dots. I'm not even sure how they differ from the Echo. Also haven't tried Alexa from Firestick or other Amazon devices.
* Seemed to a random pick for those that were interested. I got mine 3–6 months before others who had signed up for the pre-order at the same time.
Everyone who has and uses one apparently loves it, but I'm not sure there's anything Apple could offer that would be better in this space. I understand the Google thingie isn't quite as good as the Echo.
Apple's ability to integrate HW and SW, and different devices could make their solution excellent for an Apple home. For example, headphones that use Apple's W1-chip are incredibly easy to set up on a device, automatically syncs that setup to your other iCloud-connected devices, will switch the device the headphone is connected, and even uses accelerometers and Siri to make its use (especially in the case of the AirPods) a seamless experience. I have no doubt Apple could use that same synergy to make the home just as modern and simple.
Yes, the HW angle makes sense, but Siri is far, far less capable than the Echo, isn't it?
I love my Echo. I got lucky and was a very early adopter*. It's brilliant in how well it can listen and how fast it can respond. It's so fast that it doesn't feel like it's using the Internet at all to send and receive data. I've even found a couple great Skills (think of them like apps, browser extensions or plug-ins) that make it even better.
Loud speakers, easily connects to my iPhone for playback, amazing microphones that can pick up a morning mumble from across the room, and even pick up commands whilst music is playing.
Their iPhone app is nice as it shows you every command you've made and let's you submit them if there's an issue. It's definitely more accurate than Siri, even if it's database of knowledge is more limited (but that's something I noted when it first launched, I have no idea how it compares to Siri's knowledge-base now.)
I haven't used the the Dots. I'm not even sure how they differ from the Echo. Also haven't tried Alexa from Firestick or other Amazon devices.
* Seemed to a random pick for those that were interested. I got mine 3–6 months before others who had signed up for the pre-order at the same time.
Everyone who has and uses one apparently loves it, but I'm not sure there's anything Apple could offer that would be better in this space. I understand the Google thingie isn't quite as good as the Echo.
Apple's ability to integrate HW and SW, and different devices could make their solution excellent for an Apple home. For example, headphones that use Apple's W1-chip are incredibly easy to set up on a device, automatically syncs that setup to your other iCloud-connected devices, will switch the device the headphone is connected, and even uses accelerometers and Siri to make its use (especially in the case of the AirPods) a seamless experience. I have no doubt Apple could use that same synergy to make the home just as modern and simple.
Yes, the HW angle makes sense, but Siri is far, far less capable than the Echo, isn't it?
In certain respects it is, in others it isn't.
For example, many Amazon has better speech-to-text SW than Apple (which I think is unlikely), or maybe being a large, stationary device with multiple far-field microphones, it can more easily pick up accurate speech that the iPhone can't. Maybe after months of the lint from my pockets partially blocking my iPhone's microphone Siri gets less effective. Then you have Siri doing a lot more and arguably having a more complex brain than Echo/Alexa. Or maybe my expectation of Siri is too high. It's certainly not a clearcut, to me, how each service can have pros and cons with a personal digital, voice activated assistant.
I love my Echo. I got lucky and was a very early adopter*. It's brilliant in how well it can listen and how fast it can respond. It's so fast that it doesn't feel like it's using the Internet at all to send and receive data. I've even found a couple great Skills (think of them like apps, browser extensions or plug-ins) that make it even better.
Loud speakers, easily connects to my iPhone for playback, amazing microphones that can pick up a morning mumble from across the room, and even pick up commands whilst music is playing.
Their iPhone app is nice as it shows you every command you've made and let's you submit them if there's an issue. It's definitely more accurate than Siri, even if it's database of knowledge is more limited (but that's something I noted when it first launched, I have no idea how it compares to Siri's knowledge-base now.)
I haven't used the the Dots. I'm not even sure how they differ from the Echo. Also haven't tried Alexa from Firestick or other Amazon devices.
* Seemed to a random pick for those that were interested. I got mine 3–6 months before others who had signed up for the pre-order at the same time.
Everyone who has and uses one apparently loves it, but I'm not sure there's anything Apple could offer that would be better in this space. I understand the Google thingie isn't quite as good as the Echo.
Apple's ability to integrate HW and SW, and different devices could make their solution excellent for an Apple home. For example, headphones that use Apple's W1-chip are incredibly easy to set up on a device, automatically syncs that setup to your other iCloud-connected devices, will switch the device the headphone is connected, and even uses accelerometers and Siri to make its use (especially in the case of the AirPods) a seamless experience. I have no doubt Apple could use that same synergy to make the home just as modern and simple.
Yes, the HW angle makes sense, but Siri is far, far less capable than the Echo, isn't it?
In certain respects it is, in others it isn't.
For example, many Amazon has better speech-to-text SW than Apple (which I think is unlikely), or maybe being a large, stationary device with multiple far-field microphones, it can more easily pick up accurate speech that the iPhone can't. Maybe after months of the lint from my pockets partially blocking my iPhone's microphone Siri gets less effective. Then you have Siri doing a lot more and arguably having a more complex brain than Echo/Alexa. Or maybe my expectation of Siri is too high. It's certainly not a clearcut, to me, how each service can have pros and cons with a personal digital, voice activated assistant.
My test is any device that can properly divine whatever I'm mumbling will get my money.
I have 2 ½ Amazon Echo's. 2 Tall ones and 1 short one. While I love Apple, Amazon got to the market place faster with better results. Yes, Alexa cannot answer questions like Siri. But Alexa has great music available to me just by asking. Yes, I have Amazon Prime so I can order packages and have them shipped free. I get music and videos for free with Prime. I don't get this with Apple. Amazon beat them. I speak "Southern" and Alexa can understand me fine. Siri cannot do so well as Alexa. I don't order with Alexa. I want to see it on my Mac Screen - not the iPhone. but you can do it. I don't. I really like being able to turn my 4 Belkin lamps on / off in my house just by speaking. They are programmed to follow patterns and also sunrise / sunset. Sometimes I want to ask Alexa to simply turn on my office light that has just gone off by a program. I just ask Alexa to Turn On Office Light. Or Turn Off Lights when I get in the bed. I like being able to ask Alexa to Turn On Lights in the middle of the night if my wife hears a noise. Alexa Lights On / Off is really good. Yes, Home Kit will let you do a lot, but Apple was very late to the market. It is becoming a habit instead of on occasion. I have had Apple Stock since 1984. I like them, but they are slow to respond to change. I don't think they listen to their customers very well. If you have an iPhone7, it is able to process voice within itself. I have a 6s+. it has to transmit via LTE and back the voice data. Apple has to get products out the door & keep them updated. I remember when Apple could not get parts (no Money or clout). Now they cannot get enough high end parts and they have all the money. They have dropped many software packages that made them great - I have a list - they have hurt us more than one time. Alexa is a good product. I doubt Amazon will drop it.
The Tall Echo has a much better speaker system. The small one, the Dot, actually has improved microphones per Amazon, but the lack the quality speakers that the Echo has . The Dot has a speaker. My main use of the single dot is to ask it to turn lights on / off or set alarms. It has more uses. To me $40 was worth it to gain more control over the lights. You can plug in more speakers to the Dot, but I don't any in my bedroom. Go look at the Amazon site it will detail the differences between the Echo and the Dot. They also have portable (rechargeable) Echo. I don't have one of these because you have to press a button on top to talk to Alexa - too much trouble. I think Amazon is about to roll out upgrades, but this is just an opinion. It may be a new improved product that uses Alexa. Siri annoys me more than it helps at this point, but Siri is getting better.
Is this any real data in the market to indicate how successful Amazon and Google's home hub/voice control products have been?
They just do not strike me as a realistic step forward in home automation. A single device that just sits in one place is no better or more useful than any iPhone or iPad that is laying around plugged in at the time. As an Apple Watch user, I don't need to shout across the house for Siri, I can say it quietly to my wrist.
So is there really a great need for another separate device that sits around waiting to process requests? It's not something you're going to walk up to and ask a question. The commercials show people that just happen to be in the vicinity of the device, and busy doing something else, that call out questions or commands. I feel like they have to show it this way, because any other use case is ridiculous. They aren't going to show people getting up from across the room/house and walking up to it to ask a handsfree question.
I remain at a loss for what these devices are.
Not true. The Echo Dot is $39 and can do the tons of things. That's the selling point.
I still think Apple is working on something like this that integrates, AppleTV, Siri, AirPort Wireless, Routing, etc...Using the W1-chip this I think would do well. What was Apple's AirPort team reassigned for...something like this I believe.
There does seem like there are a lot of areas Apples has built systems that haven't come together as hardware.
Beats don't produce a airplay speaker, there is no wifi speaker that hook in to Apple Music. No Siri device beyond. Sonos speakers can share wifi connection with say your TV but AppleTV can't even thou the Airport Devices do this with little set up.
Can't wait to tap it to ask for news to be read me! /s
Seriously, I don't get these things. Fill me in -- what does it do that phone/tablet and nearby wifi sound system doesn't?
absolutely nothing.
Its tech going backwards. The last 20 years was about tech going portable then mobile and wireless. Now they want to push something that you have to plug in and keep in a fixed area. LOL
It doesn't replace the phone or watch, it complements it. Not everyone wants to wear a watch 24x7 and the microphone in a phone needs to be smaller than you can get away with in a dedicate device. Everyone has different needs/wants but consider for a minute that these are just gen 1 devices. Longer term, they could be listening constantly and will proactively offer you suggestions/reminders depending on the context and how you set it up - plugged in permanently is useful in this case. You're talking to your wife about how you need to go to the mall and it listens then sends some discount vouchers to your phone for a product you had talked about buying. You're talking about where to go for dinner, it suggests some well-recommended place you've never been. You talk about putting winter tires on your car but forget, it reminds you. Sure, a phone could do this but not if it's in a bag or on the other side of the room.
I can do all this crap with my iPhone that is always with me. or better my Apple Watch.
No. No you can't.
Like what? what can't i do with my phone/watch that this can?
Geez, where does one begin. Can you say, "Hey Siri, order me x," or "Hey Siri, where's my stuff?" to automatically order or check on your packages from Amazon with a simple, single voice command?
So you can access Amazon.com order fulfillment? Doesn't that seem pretty limited in scope? Am I supposed to buy hardware widgets for every .COM I order from? I'm not sure such a narrow job-to-be-done offers a ton of value for the opportunity cost -- an outlet and a good location in the kitchen or living room. I have no room (or desire) for any more tech clutter.
To counter this narrow Amazon focus, I could knock the Echo for being unable to access Apple Music, right? Something that is arguably more useful more times during the day/week than order fulfillment for more crap.
Can't wait to tap it to ask for news to be read me! /s
Seriously, I don't get these things. Fill me in -- what does it do that phone/tablet and nearby wifi sound system doesn't?
absolutely nothing.
Its tech going backwards. The last 20 years was about tech going portable then mobile and wireless. Now they want to push something that you have to plug in and keep in a fixed area. LOL
It doesn't replace the phone or watch, it complements it. Not everyone wants to wear a watch 24x7 and the microphone in a phone needs to be smaller than you can get away with in a dedicate device. Everyone has different needs/wants but consider for a minute that these are just gen 1 devices. Longer term, they could be listening constantly and will proactively offer you suggestions/reminders depending on the context and how you set it up - plugged in permanently is useful in this case. You're talking to your wife about how you need to go to the mall and it listens then sends some discount vouchers to your phone for a product you had talked about buying. You're talking about where to go for dinner, it suggests some well-recommended place you've never been. You talk about putting winter tires on your car but forget, it reminds you. Sure, a phone could do this but not if it's in a bag or on the other side of the room.
I can do all this crap with my iPhone that is always with me. or better my Apple Watch.
No. No you can't.
Like what? what can't i do with my phone/watch that this can?
Geez, where does one begin. Can you say, "Hey Siri, order me x," or "Hey Siri, where's my stuff?" to automatically order or check on your packages from Amazon with a simple, single voice command?
So you can access Amazon.com order fulfillment? Doesn't that seem pretty limited in scope? Am I supposed to buy hardware widgets for every .COM I order from? I'm not sure such a narrow job-to-be-done offers a ton of value for the opportunity cost -- an outlet and a good location in the kitchen or living room. I have no room (or desire) for any more tech clutter.
To counter this narrow Amazon focus, I could knock the Echo for being unable to access Apple Music, right? Something that is arguably more useful more times during the day/week than order fulfillment for more crap.
1) My examples were two of countless examples.
2) You take a positive, and turn it around as a negative? Really? Echo can use Apple Music via BT from an Apple device, but it can also use Amazon's music service, as well a plethora of other services directly from the device as well as plenty of free music stations without having to sign up for a single service. That's clearly a positive for Amazon but all you can see is that the Echo sucks because it doesn't have a native version of Apple Music, even though that's up to Apple, not Amazon. Unbelievable!
Can't wait to tap it to ask for news to be read me! /s
Seriously, I don't get these things. Fill me in -- what does it do that phone/tablet and nearby wifi sound system doesn't?
absolutely nothing.
Its tech going backwards. The last 20 years was about tech going portable then mobile and wireless. Now they want to push something that you have to plug in and keep in a fixed area. LOL
It doesn't replace the phone or watch, it complements it. Not everyone wants to wear a watch 24x7 and the microphone in a phone needs to be smaller than you can get away with in a dedicate device. Everyone has different needs/wants but consider for a minute that these are just gen 1 devices. Longer term, they could be listening constantly and will proactively offer you suggestions/reminders depending on the context and how you set it up - plugged in permanently is useful in this case. You're talking to your wife about how you need to go to the mall and it listens then sends some discount vouchers to your phone for a product you had talked about buying. You're talking about where to go for dinner, it suggests some well-recommended place you've never been. You talk about putting winter tires on your car but forget, it reminds you. Sure, a phone could do this but not if it's in a bag or on the other side of the room.
That sounds absolutely horrifying to me.
It's inevitable. We already give Apple and Google our life in the cloud and now they are listening for key words - Hey Siri, Hey Google. If a computer has access to all of your photos, why not your personal conversations? Perhaps you won't want it and millions of others will opt out but consider how many people give up some privacy to Google for convenience, I can see it happening within the next five years. 1984 but the government doesn't need to force it on anyone.
I can do all this crap with my iPhone that is always with me. or better my Apple Watch.
No. No you can't.
Like what? what can't i do with my phone/watch that this can?
Geez, where does one begin. Can you say, "Hey Siri, order me x," or "Hey Siri, where's my stuff?" to automatically order or check on your packages from Amazon with a simple, single voice command?
So you can access Amazon.com order fulfillment? Doesn't that seem pretty limited in scope? Am I supposed to buy hardware widgets for every .COM I order from? I'm not sure such a narrow job-to-be-done offers a ton of value for the opportunity cost -- an outlet and a good location in the kitchen or living room. I have no room (or desire) for any more tech clutter.
To counter this narrow Amazon focus, I could knock the Echo for being unable to access Apple Music, right? Something that is arguably more useful more times during the day/week than order fulfillment for more crap.
1) My examples were two of countless examples.
2) You take a positive, and turn it around as a negative? Really? Echo can use Apple Music via BT from an Apple device, but it can also use Amazon's music service, as well a plethora of other services directly from the device as well as plenty of free music stations without having to sign up for a single service. That's clearly a positive for Amazon but all you can see is that the Echo sucks because it doesn't have a native version of Apple Music, even though that's up to Apple, not Amazon. Unbelievable!
1) thus far this order fulfillment is the most pronounced example given in this thread. I don't own one, so I'm not privy to the countless other value-adds. What would be another compelling example (the original question was what value-add Echo offered over Siri/Google devices)?
2) If the proposed value add is "it can do Amazon fulfillment", I simply stated that this is not very compelling, since I shop from multiple retailers and a device in the living room that can only interface with one is not compelling in and of itself. You feel that is unreasonable?
3) Sounds like you're confirming Echo cannot take voice commands to play Apple Music. That is a knock in my book, because I have a job-to-be-done for changing the music far more often than ordering toilet paper. In fact, most of my Amazon purchases are for very specific SKUs, after much consideration and review on-site. Not re-upping sundries. I don't really give a shit if it's Apple or Amazon that prevents it, the fact remains that it cannot complete this job-to-be-done. That is important to me as consumer.
> but all you can see is that the Echo sucks
Yeah I didn't say that at all. Stay in your lane -- I'm asking for the compelling use cases for this device, framed in the context of "compared to Siri on my phone/tablet/watch". If order fulfillment is the prime use case that's not doing it on my end. There must be more?
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Or, instead of detailing a million different features that Echo/Alexa has over Siri, how about you read an review about something other than an Apple product from time to time? Education is a good thing.
This is called Generation C. C stands for crap. The more crap you can buy the better.
For example, many Amazon has better speech-to-text SW than Apple (which I think is unlikely), or maybe being a large, stationary device with multiple far-field microphones, it can more easily pick up accurate speech that the iPhone can't. Maybe after months of the lint from my pockets partially blocking my iPhone's microphone Siri gets less effective. Then you have Siri doing a lot more and arguably having a more complex brain than Echo/Alexa. Or maybe my expectation of Siri is too high. It's certainly not a clearcut, to me, how each service can have pros and cons with a personal digital, voice activated assistant.
Beats don't produce a airplay speaker, there is no wifi speaker that hook in to Apple Music. No Siri device beyond.
Sonos speakers can share wifi connection with say your TV but AppleTV can't even thou the Airport Devices do this with little set up.
It is odd timing to split the Airport Team now.
To counter this narrow Amazon focus, I could knock the Echo for being unable to access Apple Music, right? Something that is arguably more useful more times during the day/week than order fulfillment for more crap.
2) You take a positive, and turn it around as a negative? Really? Echo can use Apple Music via BT from an Apple device, but it can also use Amazon's music service, as well a plethora of other services directly from the device as well as plenty of free music stations without having to sign up for a single service. That's clearly a positive for Amazon but all you can see is that the Echo sucks because it doesn't have a native version of Apple Music, even though that's up to Apple, not Amazon. Unbelievable!
2) If the proposed value add is "it can do Amazon fulfillment", I simply stated that this is not very compelling, since I shop from multiple retailers and a device in the living room that can only interface with one is not compelling in and of itself. You feel that is unreasonable?
3) Sounds like you're confirming Echo cannot take voice commands to play Apple Music. That is a knock in my book, because I have a job-to-be-done for changing the music far more often than ordering toilet paper. In fact, most of my Amazon purchases are for very specific SKUs, after much consideration and review on-site. Not re-upping sundries. I don't really give a shit if it's Apple or Amazon that prevents it, the fact remains that it cannot complete this job-to-be-done. That is important to me as consumer.
> but all you can see is that the Echo sucks
Yeah I didn't say that at all. Stay in your lane -- I'm asking for the compelling use cases for this device, framed in the context of "compared to Siri on my phone/tablet/watch". If order fulfillment is the prime use case that's not doing it on my end. There must be more?