Oppenheimer: Apple 'lacks the courage to lead the next generation of innovation'

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  • Reply 81 of 200
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,909member

    sog35 said:
    jungmark said:
    blastdoor said:
    flaneur said:
    blastdoor said:
    I agree with the general notion that Apple risks stagnation over the next decade, but I don't agree with the specifics. The stuff about AI, cloud, and services is just a bunch of buzzwords. And actually, I think those are areas where Apple has a good chance of catching up to the competition. They've been making steady progress and if steady progress continues, they should be fine. 

    I think there's a fairly straightforward growth path for Apple -- it's actually not complicated in terms of big picture strategy. , but Apple isn't following it for reasons that I can only speculate about. 

    Despite dropping the word "Computer" from its name, Apple is more of a computer company now than ever before. When else in Apple's history did they design their own CPU or create their own programming language? Apple's core competencies are making very technically advanced computers that are also very easy to use, and tying all of those computers together into a coherent web/ecosystem. I think there are many computer markets where Apple currently does not compete (or markets that haven't been created yet), but could compete quite effectively if they made the effort. There are a lot of growth opportunities. 

    The thing that Apple seems to be having difficulty with is operating in multiple computer markets at the same time. They seem to really be struggling to keep all product lines advancing. Only the iPhone advances at a steady pace. The iPad comes close, but experiences some bumps. So far so good for Watch, but it's very new, so not much track record. The Mac lineup sees very inconsistent progress. The Apple TV seems to exist to make Mac users feel better about the pace of Mac updates. The AirPods -- a new product that really is a wearable computer -- and they can't even launch it on time, even though doing so was very important for the iPhone. 

    So yeah -- Apple has problems. But it's not a buzzword problem. And they don't need some 3 dimensional chess strategy. They just need to organize themselves in a way that will allow them to compete in all the markets where they have the potential to offer a compelling product. 
    ". . . and they can't even launch it on time." Like they have complete control over the 16 or howmanyever suppliers in Asia that are manufacturing and assembling the parts for the AirPods? Geez, you guys are so full of yourselves in armchair production logistics in the four Asian supplier countries. 

    For the rest of your post, msybe consider that they're building that new headquarters for a reason.

    If Tim Cook walked up and kicked you in the nads, you Panglossian apologists would figure out a way to justify it as the best possible thing he could have done under the circumstances. 

    There was an easy way to avoid this problem with the AirPods -- include a 3.5 mm jack with the iPhone 7 and make the iPhone 7 a bit thicker. 

    Then the AirPods could have come out when they were ready. If people loved the AirPods, that would make removal of the audio jack in the iPhone 8 seem obvious and natural. 

    These are no random events beyond Apple's control; we do not live in the best possible world. Apple is making bad choices. Things could be better; things should be better. 
    Apple includes an adapter to use with any wired headphones. Other wireless headphones can be used. 
    People don't want to use adapters.

    They are inconvenient, get lost, and are ugly. No one wants to lug around an adapter everywhere they go. Funny the people defending these adapters are the same people who tease Android users for lugging around SD cards and spare batteries.
    Exactly. Adapters shouldn't be necessary for core functionality. 

    The best argument for removing the audio jack is that it's no longer necessary, given the totally awesome wireless audio solution. When the totally awesome wireless solution isn't there, it kind of undermines the argument. And frankly at this point we don't really even know for sure that the AirPods are a totally awesome solution -- we just hope that they are. 
    anantksundaramgatorguy
  • Reply 82 of 200
    altivec88 said:
    This isn't the first time in history that Apple has taken a break from making monitors. Given past history in fact there's a good chance they'll make
    monitors again and probably with some innovative features added. Just adding a couple of ports isn't Apple's idea of innovating. More likely if they do come back they'll com back with external card support and maybe some other goodies we hadn't thought of. 

    I dont see routers as a key component. Very few people I know ever owned an airport. I've owned all three major versions and about 3 months ago bought one because I thought with my FIOS service I would want one. Well as it turns out the router VZ gave me was faster than the Airport and supported NAS and other USB devices etc. All that being true why would I keep my Airport? Why would anyone spend extra money on an airport? And why would Apple continue to make vanilla wifi routers? Years ago airports were needed to do things most manufacturers didn't support. Now that's no longer true. If Apple continues to work on wifi it will probably be integrated into the ATV or other hub category devices. 
    Although, you may not see routers as a key component, I believe they are.   To many users, especially those that are not very computer literate they choose Apple because "it just works".   When these people walk into a store, they pick up their mac, maybe a monitor, a router and go home.  Plug it all in and few steps it all works.

    Today.  they walk into a store and buy a mini for example.  They then say I'll need a monitor.  Sorry sir, Apple doesn't sell monitors and the LG one we sell won't work with that.  Maybe the PC store across the street can help you with that.   Okay. can I just connect this to the internet?  No sir.  You will need a router and then follow the 50 step process. (make sure its secure or else).  These are the 10 routers we sell. Which one do you want.

    Heck you can go in buy and brand new Macbook Pro, go home and be surprised it doesn't connect to your brand new iPhone or iPad.  Off to the store again.  

    All these things may sound trivial but this is no longer the Apple I know.   Everything takes back seat to the iPhone and they are completely neglecting or misunderstanding there core markets.  When the iPhone gravy train is over, their will be nothing left to fall back on.  In 30+ years, I've never seen Apple in such disarray.
    It doesn't take 50 steps to configure a router anymore. Just set the thing to DHCP if it wasn't done for you. I've never had a problem using my devices with the random public networks either. I think it's been a very long time since you've bought or setup a router if you think it takes a huge effort. And when have you ever bought a monitor that didn't work with a Mac? If you've been a Mac fan for the last 30 years you know damn well that there were plenty of years where there were no Mac OEM monitors. And how does an iPhone not work with a MBP? You mean because you have to buy a dongle? Who synchs their idea ice with their computers any longer? Or why would you charge your device from a laptop? 
  • Reply 83 of 200
    This article points to other companies which produce a better versions of Siri which I cannot confirm from experience however I believe Siri is pretty useless most of the time and removed the option from my Mac OS devices. Hardware may not be as important as internet apps and services going forward. "Smart phones" have matured as a technology with minor changes coming each year, none to get too excited about. Apple's history for me has been about taking the geek out of technology as with the first Macs, and the iPhone which were big user friendly improvements on DOS PCs and early mobile phones. I don't see any product being made by any tech company that is really creating a new platform or revolutionary way of doing things differently. The next big thing is eluding just about everyone right now. 
  • Reply 84 of 200
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,308member
    eightzero said:
    There is a ring of truth to this. My AppleWatch suddenly had battery issues under watchOS3. Airplay stopped working in some apps under tvOS10.0.1. It seems one of the best parts of macOS, Time Machine, is going to be outsourced to third party routers. iCloud is...unintuitive at best; the desktop file storage thingy is an absolute hot mess. AppleTV has an app coming that does...what now? Provide a sales platform for others? Airpods are available...when? But hey, the macbookpro is uber thin! and USB-C reasons! and iOS allows me to get spam calendar things, but not delete emails all at once. D

    Don't get me started on Siri. Who actually uses that?

    And here's an ad for a samesung VR device with people enjoying it. 
    iCloud is not a mess. I use it constantly for myself and to share large files (usually rough cuts of edits). While they could add or change some features, it's hardly a disaster. In fact it works quite well for allot of uses. I would appreciate some examples of how the desktop "thingy" (synching) is a hot mess and not just your word because it's been easy to use and sync for me. 

    Apple TV could very well turn into a hub seeing as that's where the Airport/ time machine team went, but yeah I'm sure Apple is doomed there because they aren't innovating. But let be frank no one pushed TV into the computer space more than Apple. Amazon, google etc wouldn't have shown any interest until iTunes and Apple. The unifying app is something users and content providers have been asking for since ATV4 came out. So Apple releases what looks to be a useful app and yeah "they suck". Please. 

    The airpod delay really is not big deal. No one will care after a couple of months of sales. BT is kind of "THE standard" forward for handhelds. It just makes sense. I've been a very happy with my BT buds and they are other out there. 

    The mackbook pro while not perfect for very very high end users is quite satisfactory and beyond for almost 90% of users. Yes. USBC "universal ports" are the way forward. Why should Apple worry about the port configurations for "every user" when they can just give evry user the ability to set up what THEY need. What's more of an individual expression? Having Apple try to account for every legacy port and being criticized for not including something or give the user the ability to add what they need?

     Though you may not see it thinner, lighter and better battery are key characteristics of making a laptop a pleasure to use day in, day out. even PC manufacturers know, no one wants  to carry around 7+lb laptops that get 3 hours in a charge any more. My only bitch with Apple is that they have USBC and I would like for them to implement an official API for external video via TB3. I would love to see an external cabinet for the iMac and the MBP that could hold a couple of SSD's and a full length video card, with a few legacy ports or at lest more full spec TB3 ports. But it's still early in the game and it's still a niche market. Early adopters will have to be happy with DIY'ing it themselves and maybe doing some hacking. The best we will probably get is third party cabinets and an official API. 

    I got calendar spam once. And haven't since then. Just because a handful of people got spammed doesn't mean it's a disaster. You're statement is hyperbole at best. 

    I use siri more and more despite my reluctance. It's "weird" talking to a computer (and that's true wether it's google or Amazon) but as I use it more I'm constantly impressed by launching apps and performing tasks like "take a photo" "Shazam this song" using Siri to make it much quicker. What would be great is Siri on the ATV with "always on" so I can ask "what's the weather like today" for one example as I get ready for work or "show me a new recipe for x" when I'm cooking dinner etc etc. Siri is quite good despite your narrow view of "it must suck because no one is using it" that's a weak argument. How can one decide how good something is or isn't if they don't use it? No, people aren't using because it's not their habit to talk to a computer and it feels weird. Coming generations will probably embrace it, especially as the tech gets better. 

    Finally i I can show you allot of ads for people enjoying terrible products. It's an ad not a mini documentary and those people are paid actors pretending so what does an advertisement prove?
    We disagree. You might be right.
  • Reply 85 of 200
    altivec88 said:

    They have been switching to USB-C for over a year now and yet only 2 models have them.   How am I suppose to buy USB-C peripherals for my company when our MacPro's, iMacs... etc can't use them.   The "Hello" event should have a been a complete transition day for all of Apple's desktops, laptops, iphones, and iPads over to USB-C.  That's how you transition.  I guess, Tim and company really have replaced their computers with iPads because they have no clue how their decisions are affecting people in the real world.
    Real world? Let's talk about "the real world." When has Apple ever had a single launch event in which they completely replaced all connectors across all products, new or existing? When has any company done that? When has any company ever been held to the expectation of doing that, and failing to, been accused of "having no clue how their decisions are affecting people in the real world"?
    ai46
  • Reply 86 of 200

    People don't want to use adapters.

    They are inconvenient, get lost, and are ugly. No one wants to lug around an adapter everywhere they go. Funny the people defending these adapters are the same people who tease Android users for lugging around SD cards and spare batteries.
    People don't want adapters? Everyone I know already carries a charger and cable. How is a slightly different adapter cable that worrisome? The headphone port went because of water proofing not just because it was "too big". It was a gaping hole. There are so many BT options already for headphones and earbuds. If you really want wired and you complain that you have to have an extra 3" cord at the end of your already corded headphones I'd say there's something wrong with your perspective. 
    ai46
  • Reply 87 of 200
    gmgravytrain said:

     Apple used to be the 800 lb. gorilla in the room... 
    Ha! Reminds me of a joke when I worked for IBM & IBM had 97% of the maimframe computer market:

    "When you make love to an 800 lb. gorilla, you don't stop when you get tired -- you stop when the gorilla gets tired!"

    anantksundaram
  • Reply 88 of 200
    cali said:
     I love how Apple and only Apple is expected to innovate. All other tech companies can copy Apple all day but only Apple is criticized to move technology forward  because if they don't, "Apple can't  innovate anymore". 
    yup... big time.. but that not to say im not somewhat disappointed with apple lately.
  • Reply 89 of 200
    This thread is hilarious. Part of me wants Apple to vanish into a quantum anomaly so we can see hiw
    much different it would be. Complaining about your iPhone. Ditch it. Think the iPad is under developed? Go get a surface pro. Hate your trash can Mac Pro? Go buy an Hp or Dell desktop and tell me how much you love it. You won't. 
    ai46brucemc
  • Reply 90 of 200
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,909member

    People don't want to use adapters.

    They are inconvenient, get lost, and are ugly. No one wants to lug around an adapter everywhere they go. Funny the people defending these adapters are the same people who tease Android users for lugging around SD cards and spare batteries.
    People don't want adapters? Everyone I know already carries a charger and cable. How is a slightly different adapter cable that worrisome? The headphone port went because of water proofing not just because it was "too big". It was a gaping hole. There are so many BT options already for headphones and earbuds. If you really want wired and you complain that you have to have an extra 3" cord at the end of your already corded headphones I'd say there's something wrong with your perspective. 
    Other vendors have sold phones that are waterproof AND have an audio jack. 

    Heck, the lighting port is also a "hole" in the exterior of the phone, but they kept that. 

    So no -- it is not necessary to remove the audio jack in order to make the phone waterproof. 

    Yet that is not to say that there aren't tradeoffs. Retaining the audio jack while adding water proofing would mean that something else would have to go. One option would be a smaller battery. Another option would be to make the phone a little thicker. 

    If W1-based wireless earphones were a proven and popular technology, with a range of products meeting the needs of a lot of people, then removing the audio jack might have made sense. But that was not the case. Maybe it will be next year -- I certainly hope so. 
    edited December 2016 baconstanganantksundaramlorin schultz
  • Reply 91 of 200
    altivec88 said:

    Skylake E5 (v5) is expected 1H 2017 and it comes with a new socket design. So updating the Mac Pro any time before 1H 2017 and have to go to a major redesign for the new socket in 1H 2017 would make no sense. Processor specs are listed in Intel's site and a comparison of all v3, v4 and incoming v5 specs would give some clue about why Apple did not update the Mac Pro. This is not as simple as counting the number of cores. Companies' marketing pages would not help you. You must dig deeper.
    I understand that the v5 will be a new socket design and require a redesign of the logic board but that does not refute the fact that the v3 and v4 are the same socket design and would require trivial work to implement. If they would have done an incremental update on the MacPro, they wouldn't be so hard pressed to get the v5 out the door. 

    I know its easy for all of us to quarterback CEO these things when it doesn't affect us.  The problem for me and many pros, is that this is are livelihood.   We have 7 year old 12 core systems that we use for rendering that are giving out one by one.   They NEED to be replaced.   Normally, we would have updated these systems every 2 years but Apple has not provided us with any compelling systems during this 7 year time frame.  If I can't walk into an Apple Store and buy a top of the line system that is even remotely close to what competitors are selling for the same price, you know there is a problem.

    I'm not sure where I am suppose to dig or how I am fooled by marketing that a 36 core E5v4 with Nvidia Quadro GPU Dell/HP is only marginally faster than the 12 core E5v2 with 3 year old D700 GPU.  Can you please point me in the right direction so I can see for myself.
    https://ark.intel.com Use the search box.

    Edit: there is a specific link for AMD in Mac Pro:

    http://www.amd.com/en-us/solutions/professional/partner/apple?utm_campaign=www.amd.com_en-us_solutions_professional_d-series&utm_medium=redirect&utm_source=301
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 92 of 200
    spacekid said:
    I would agree. Rather than a drive to expand and innovate, there's been retreat to the iPhone cash cow. Apple could make it's existing products better. Instead they languish until they're removed from the market.
    Wait, so iPhones, iPads, Watch, TV, MacBooks, MacBook Pros -- none of these are existing products? what?? Sounds like nonsense to me.
  • Reply 93 of 200
    gatorguy said:
    The Apple that developed the iPhone was a different Apple from today's. The old Apple was leaner, a whole lot less wealthy, driven and more desperate for a home-run product. Today's Apple doesn't have the same motivation or urgency IMHO. $200B sitting idle in the bank makes a difference in the way a company conducts itself. This Apple can easily afford to be much more patient, with "betting the farm" no longer a driver to push hard and fast on a new product. Just my .02
    Thanks!
  • Reply 94 of 200
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    blastdoor said:
    flaneur said:
    blastdoor said:
    I agree with the general notion that Apple risks stagnation over the next decade, but I don't agree with the specifics. The stuff about AI, cloud, and services is just a bunch of buzzwords. And actually, I think those are areas where Apple has a good chance of catching up to the competition. They've been making steady progress and if steady progress continues, they should be fine. 

    I think there's a fairly straightforward growth path for Apple -- it's actually not complicated in terms of big picture strategy. , but Apple isn't following it for reasons that I can only speculate about. 

    Despite dropping the word "Computer" from its name, Apple is more of a computer company now than ever before. When else in Apple's history did they design their own CPU or create their own programming language? Apple's core competencies are making very technically advanced computers that are also very easy to use, and tying all of those computers together into a coherent web/ecosystem. I think there are many computer markets where Apple currently does not compete (or markets that haven't been created yet), but could compete quite effectively if they made the effort. There are a lot of growth opportunities. 

    The thing that Apple seems to be having difficulty with is operating in multiple computer markets at the same time. They seem to really be struggling to keep all product lines advancing. Only the iPhone advances at a steady pace. The iPad comes close, but experiences some bumps. So far so good for Watch, but it's very new, so not much track record. The Mac lineup sees very inconsistent progress. The Apple TV seems to exist to make Mac users feel better about the pace of Mac updates. The AirPods -- a new product that really is a wearable computer -- and they can't even launch it on time, even though doing so was very important for the iPhone. 

    So yeah -- Apple has problems. But it's not a buzzword problem. And they don't need some 3 dimensional chess strategy. They just need to organize themselves in a way that will allow them to compete in all the markets where they have the potential to offer a compelling product. 
    ". . . and they can't even launch it on time." Like they have complete control over the 16 or howmanyever suppliers in Asia that are manufacturing and assembling the parts for the AirPods? Geez, you guys are so full of yourselves in armchair production logistics in the four Asian supplier countries. 

    For the rest of your post, msybe consider that they're building that new headquarters for a reason.

    If Tim Cook walked up and kicked you in the nads, you Panglossian apologists would figure out a way to justify it as the best possible thing he could have done under the circumstances. 

    There was an easy way to avoid this problem with the AirPods -- include a 3.5 mm jack with the iPhone 7 and make the iPhone 7 a bit thicker. 

    Then the AirPods could have come out when they were ready. If people loved the AirPods, that would make removal of the audio jack in the iPhone 8 seem obvious and natural. 

    These are no random events beyond Apple's control; we do not live in the best possible world. Apple is making bad choices. Things could be better; things should be better. 
    Nads. You got nads for brains. There's no room for the wasted x-square mm of headphone jack space in the new phones in the longitudinal direction. Thicker, if they wanted to waste a year of retooling to insure against screaming know-nothings on the internet, wouldn't work.

    You are so tied in knots you contradict yourself in one sentence. We don't live in the best possible world, and things do happen beyond Apple's control. The AirPods are a couple months late. Big deal. Shit happens. It does not mean they're losing it. But you miserable cranks are losing it. Grow up. Go make something with your hands and find out how the real world works. 
    macplusplusai46StrangeDays
  • Reply 95 of 200

    sog35 said:

    Now if Apple transitioned into more of a services company they would not have to innovate on the product side as much. They drop their prices of their Macs and iPhones to capture more market share.  If they captured 30% of the market they could they monetize that massive user base with services. Hardware innovation would not matter.


    Mmm...


    https://ped30.com/2016/04/30/apple-services-facebook/


    edited December 2016 brucemc
  • Reply 96 of 200
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,657member
    jungmark said:

    altivec88 said:
    altivec88 said:
    I"m not even caring that they have failed to innovate.   They can't even keep their current products remotely up to date.  3+ year old MacPro's are unacceptable.  The seamless Mac eco-system is being fragmented and destroyed by the cancelation of key products (Monitors, routers).   Apple monitors are pure source of advertising for a company.  Going into an office and seeing all those lit Apple logo's was fantastic mind share.  Now we get to see plastic LG monitors and have no clue whats running them.  But hey, Apple will only make a hundred million on monitors instead of a 100 billion, so it needs to be axed.

    They have been switching to USB-C for over a year now and yet only 2 models have them.   How am I suppose to buy USB-C peripherals for my company when our MacPro's, iMacs... etc can't use them.   The "Hello" event should have a been a complete transition day for all of Apple's desktops, laptops, iphones, and iPads over to USB-C.  That's how you transition.  I guess, Tim and company really have replaced their computers with iPads because they have no clue how their decisions are affecting people in the real world.
    This isn't the first time in history that Apple has taken a break from making monitors. Given past history in fact there's a good chance they'll make
    monitors again and probably with some innovative features added. Just adding a couple of ports isn't Apple's idea of innovating. More likely if they do come back they'll com back with external card support and maybe some other goodies we hadn't thought of. 

    I dont see routers as a key component. Very few people I know ever owned an airport. I've owned all three major versions and about 3 months ago bought one because I thought with my FIOS service I would want one. Well as it turns out the router VZ gave me was faster than the Airport and supported NAS and other USB devices etc. All that being true why would I keep my Airport? Why would anyone spend extra money on an airport? And why would Apple continue to make vanilla wifi routers? Years ago airports were needed to do things most manufacturers didn't support. Now that's no longer true. If Apple continues to work on wifi it will probably be integrated into the ATV or other hub category devices. 
    Although, you may not see routers as a key component, I believe they are.   To many users, especially those that are not very computer literate they choose Apple because "it just works".   When these people walk into a store, they pick up their mac, maybe a monitor, a router and go home.  Plug it all in and few steps it all works.

    Today.  they walk into a store and buy a mini for example.  They then say I'll need a monitor.  Sorry sir, Apple doesn't sell monitors and the LG one we sell won't work with that.  Maybe the PC store across the street can help you with that.   Okay. can I just connect this to the internet?  No sir.  You will need a router and then follow the 50 step process. (make sure its secure or else).  These are the 10 routers we sell. Which one do you want.

    Heck you can go in buy and brand new Macbook Pro, go home and be surprised it doesn't connect to your brand new iPhone or iPad.  Off to the store again.  

    All these things may sound trivial but this is no longer the Apple I know.   Everything takes back seat to the iPhone and they are completely neglecting or misunderstanding there core markets.  When the iPhone gravy train is over, their will be nothing left to fall back on.  In 30+ years, I've never seen Apple in such disarray.
    Many ISPs combine the modem/router into a single device. Therefore an additional router isn't needed. 

    Plus Apple doesn't sell modems either or is an ISP. So the consumer should be smart enough to get that on their own. 
    It's also quite possible that Apple has plans for a HomeKit device that would handle router duties, or even, an Apple TV that does the same.

    Maybe the problem is that a router, as a singular device, doesn't fit the ecosystem anymore.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 97 of 200
    macOS and iOS, Watch and TV OSs are beautifully poised for incredible explosions in new directions.  AI and Augmented innovations are also ripe.  I still think we'll see a whole new era of innovation in 2017.  The chess pieces are almost in position. God, all this R&D must be in pursuit of big things.  Tim is many things, but he doesn't seem like a good liar.  I don't think he's bluffing.

    That said, if we don't see at least one new product home run by Sept 2018, then we have a demonstrated post-Jobs decline and Cook will get a vote of no confidence from investors.  Be out by then.

    .
  • Reply 98 of 200
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member

    altivec88 said:
    flaneur said:
    altivec88 said:
    I"m not even caring that they have failed to innovate.   They can't even keep their current products remotely up to date.  3+ year old MacPro's are unacceptable.  The seamless Mac eco-system is being fragmented and destroyed by the cancelation of key products (Monitors, routers).   Apple monitors are pure source of advertising for a company.  Going into an office and seeing all those lit Apple logo's was fantastic mind share.  Now we get to see plastic LG monitors and have no clue whats running them.  But hey, Apple will only make a hundred million on monitors instead of a 100 billion, so it needs to be axed.

    They have been switching to USB-C for over a year now and yet only 2 models have them.   How am I suppose to buy USB-C peripherals for my company when our MacPro's, iMacs... etc can't use them.   The "Hello" event should have a been a complete transition day for all of Apple's desktops, laptops, iphones, and iPads over to USB-C.  That's how you transition.  I guess, Tim and company really have replaced their computers with iPads because they have no clue how their decisions are affecting people in the real world.
    You are ignorant of any material reasons for Apple's moves. Example: tell us where Apple would get an extra 3 million or so 27" IGZO-backed  LCD screens to supply a new line of Cinema Displays. You can't tell us. Ergo, you are full of . . . hot air.
    LOL... I am ignorant because you believe that Apple is not capable of getting 3 million display panels?  So they are able to source out hundreds of millions of iPhone displays but Apple doesn't have enough clout or money to contract out 3 million 27" panels.     Yah... I'm the ignorant one.

    Am I also ignorant on the 3+ year old MacPro's?   How will Apple be able to source out the Xeon E5's that have been updated two times and the countless new graphics cards that are out?   How will they be able to source out enough USB-C ports for the MacPro.  I know its crazy for me to think that they are capable of getting these parts.
    Even more ignorant than I thought. IPhone screens are LTPS based, not IGZO. Entirely different technology, different sources.
  • Reply 99 of 200
    altivec88 said:

    Skylake E5 (v5) is expected 1H 2017 and it comes with a new socket design. So updating the Mac Pro any time before 1H 2017 and have to go to a major redesign for the new socket in 1H 2017 would make no sense. Processor specs are listed in Intel's site and a comparison of all v3, v4 and incoming v5 specs would give some clue about why Apple did not update the Mac Pro. This is not as simple as counting the number of cores. Companies' marketing pages would not help you. You must dig deeper.
    I understand that the v5 will be a new socket design and require a redesign of the logic board but that does not refute the fact that the v3 and v4 are the same socket design and would require trivial work to implement. If they would have done an incremental update on the MacPro, they wouldn't be so hard pressed to get the v5 out the door. 

    I know its easy for all of us to quarterback CEO these things when it doesn't affect us.  The problem for me and many pros, is that this is are livelihood.   We have 7 year old 12 core systems that we use for rendering that are giving out one by one.   They NEED to be replaced.   Normally, we would have updated these systems every 2 years but Apple has not provided us with any compelling systems during this 7 year time frame.  If I can't walk into an Apple Store and buy a top of the line system that is even remotely close to what competitors are selling for the same price, you know there is a problem.

    I'm not sure where I am suppose to dig or how I am fooled by marketing that a 36 core E5v4 with Nvidia Quadro GPU Dell/HP is only marginally faster than the 12 core E5v2 with 3 year old D700 GPU.  Can you please point me in the right direction so I can see for myself.
    https://ark.intel.com Use the search box.

    Edit: there is a specific link for AMD in Mac Pro:

    http://www.amd.com/en-us/solutions/professional/partner/apple?utm_campaign=www.amd.com_en-us_solutions_professional_d-series&utm_medium=redirect&utm_source=301
    Okay... I checked your links out but other than explaining the products or showing detailed specs in a comparison chart, there is nothing telling me how they actually compare in performance.  Let me give it a try.  Here is a link to some Cinebench scores (a widely used benchmark for those of us who use our machines for renderings)

    https://us.rebusfarm.net/en/tempbench?view=benchmark

    As you can see, a 36 core E5 will easily trounce and 12 core one.  I can't see any logical reason to claim otherwise.  Now if the price were disproportionate, thats one thing, but I can get both systems for the same price.   I don't mind paying a little for the Apple Tax, but this is beyond ridiculous.

    Clearly Apple's decision to go with one processor over two will never allow them to compete on performance.  Although, I am not happy with that decision, I can live with it as long as they are at least someone competitive on price.   Right now they are not even close in either regard.
  • Reply 100 of 200
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,657member
    kamilton said:
    macOS and iOS, Watch and TV OSs are beautifully poised for incredible explosions in new directions.  AI and Augmented innovations are also ripe.  I still think we'll see a whole new era of innovation in 2017.  The chess pieces are almost in position. God, all this R&D must be in pursuit of big things.  Tim is many things, but he doesn't seem like a good liar.  I don't think he's bluffing.

    That said, if we don't see at least one new product home run by Sept 2018, then we have a demonstrated post-Jobs decline and Cook will get a vote of no confidence from investors.  Be out by then.

    .
    Tim is all in with healthcare. Look to see some products coming online next year that meed the "disruptive" standard, and funny that the Apple Watch is so prominent in healthcare. Look to see the iPad even more in healthcare.
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