It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this...
First thought is Apple using CPU and memory produced in the US (Intel/Micron) and assembled in China. There will be all kinds of loopholes that companies will exploit.
For people entering college, they should look to automation technologies (like robotics).
Apple suppliers to moving to the U.S. would require them to figure out how to produce the same parts at the same price because Apple is certainly not going to pay more. That, of course, would require intensive automation which would limit the number of jobs created. And jobs is supposedly the object of this political game is it not?
It is ostensibly about job creation. But being able to say "made in America" or some other rather meaningless "mission accomplished" is the real reason.
I surely hope Trump doesn't get anywhere near an import tariff. The effects will be terrible for Americans. If he was wise and knowledgeable about economics, trade and things like comparative advantage, he would would to unshackle international trade even more, not restrict it. Trade helps to generate wealth and prosperity. Trade restrictions do the opposite.
Then I would like the option to freely move to any country where my skills are in demand and the cost of living, quality of life and wage ratio works in my favor
You already have that option. Nobody is making you stay here or anywhere.
Sure, it IS possible to move to another country. But it's seldom easy and usually very hard. Why don't you make inquiries at the embassies of Britain, France, Germany and Japan and report back. Then you'll know.
Nothing wrong at all with America benefitting. For too long we have sacrificed production to become largely a services economy only.
China doesn't want to acquiesce to our human rights laws which would benefit workers here. Nor do they want that gravy train to cease.
Would he be great to see all the dollars funneling OUT of the country make a return here. Then Americans can enjoy some of that gravy and much of the capital issues can be relieved (so long as foolish leaders don't wastefully spend on frivolous pet endeavors yet again).
Moving operations on here will foster innovation to keep the prices competitive throughout the chain. It will also provide a human rights cover legally.
There are many arenas to consider where cost is concerned and many to consider where human being bugs are concerned. And there are solutions. Simply "don't rock the boat" isn't one.
Apple let itself is an American company that has benefited since its inception from being such.
I have an idea. Let's force people living in New York City to drill their own oil wells and farm cattle. Let's tell the folks in Alaska to grow their own cotton for the shirts they wear. Somehow the common sense approach of producing where conditions are most favorable or most economically efficient eludes the emotional minds of those who demand we bring jobs here; jobs that have no advantages to being here.
You miss the point. The folks in New York can go elsewhere for their needs in the USA. As it's one country. Sorry to say, but You've missed the point entirely. Your analogy doesn't follow logic.
Apple suppliers to moving to the U.S. would require them to figure out how to produce the same parts at the same price because Apple is certainly not going to pay more. That, of course, would require intensive automation which would limit the number of jobs created. And jobs is supposedly the object of this political game is it not?
It is ostensibly about job creation. But being able to say "made in America" or some other rather meaningless "mission accomplished" is the real reason.
I surely hope Trump doesn't get anywhere near an import tariff. The effects will be terrible for Americans. If he was wise and knowledgeable about economics, trade and things like comparative advantage, he would would to unshackle international trade even more, not restrict it. Trade helps to generate wealth and prosperity. Trade restrictions do the opposite.
Re Designr:
"If he was wise and knowledgeable about economics, trade".
That seems impossible. He even make his stuff, tie, shirt, etc, oversea. All he sell is lies and lies. No wall, no deportation, keep Obamacare and no lock her up.
I have an idea. Let's force people living in New York City to drill their own oil wells and farm cattle. Let's tell the folks in Alaska to grow their own cotton for the shirts they wear. Somehow the common sense approach of producing where conditions are most favorable or most economically efficient eludes the emotional minds of those who demand we bring jobs here; jobs that have no advantages to being here.
You miss the point. The folks in New York can go elsewhere for their needs in the USA. As it's one country. Sorry to say, but You've missed the point entirely. Your analogy doesn't follow logic.
And you REALLY missed the point. It's not about nations, it's about nearness to the production sources. America dropped out of electronics manufacturing, except for chips, in the 1970s. Every little-bitty part is made on the other side of the world. Get it?
Are techo widgets assembled by industrial robots in the USA better for the macro US economy and worldwide customers than techno widgets assembled by industrial robots in China or Vietnam? Either way, it's a boon for industrial robot and automation suppliers. May want to look into where the leading industrial robot manufacturers are located to get a sense of which countries are intelligently profiting from globalization in spite of the movement of certain manufacturing functions to low labor cost locations. If the US turns its focus inward and towards recreating Leave it to Beaver nostalgia, the outsourcing of manually intensive manufacturing processes to China and SE Asia will be the least of its job creation concerns. At some level, strong arming US companies into bringing job functions that were outsourced for labor cost reasons to low cost countries back into the US is admitting that the US cannot compete in the global marketplace by being smarter and more innovative.
I think the scenario in which Apple might move manufacturing to the US is one in which they get substantial incentives to do so.
Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple somehow got trump to turn the tarrifs around and instead of imposing them on American companies not manufacturing in USA. Raises tarrifs on foreign competition forcing those companies to make THERE provide in USA in order to better compete. Forcing them to invest money into America to keep costs the same. Like India for example. If you want to sell products in our country they need to be made in our country.
Tariffs and protectionism are totally unnecessary. Many non US manufacturers, e.g., Honda, BMW, Phillips, Hyundai, Toyota, etc., have been manufacturing in the US, some for several decades, because it's economically advantageous for these companies to build their products inside the US, both for sale in the US and for export from the US to other countries. Heck, the most "American Made" car in the US, including supplied components, parts, labor, and assembly is the Toyota Camry. Globalization can work for all parties.
By the way, the top 5 American Made cars in the US are non US brands.
Apple suppliers to moving to the U.S. would require them to figure out how to produce the same parts at the same price because Apple is certainly not going to pay more. That, of course, would require intensive automation which would limit the number of jobs created. And jobs is supposedly the object of this political game is it not?
Maybe Apple will pass along the reduction in corporate taxes to keep the price down.
I think the scenario in which Apple might move manufacturing to the US is one in which they get substantial incentives to do so.
I don'tnecessarily agree. Time cook has already stated how answer to this question, I believe. He said or at least it was commented on back in 12/2015 that Apple would continue to manufacture iPhone in china if the costs combined with the tarrifs proved cheaper than the alternative.
That combined with rumors from last year where it was alleged that Apple tried to drive down component prices to maintain the same profit margin. Leads me to believe that Apple would go this route first.
Now, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple somehow got trump to turn the tarrifs around and instead of imposing them on American companies not manufacturing in USA. Raises tarrifs on foreign competition forcing those companies to make THERE provide in USA in order to better compete. Forcing them to invest money into America to keep costs the same. Like India for example. If you want to sell products in our country they need to be made in our country.
First Trump needs to build the wall on the southern Border. It's a much more tangible symbol of his policies . This will probably help employment for low skilled American workers. Trump may not need to make any substantial changes in Trade policies then.
I have an idea. Let's force people living in New York City to drill their own oil wells and farm cattle. Let's tell the folks in Alaska to grow their own cotton for the shirts they wear. Somehow the common sense approach of producing where conditions are most favorable or most economically efficient eludes the emotional minds of those who demand we bring jobs here; jobs that have no advantages to being here.
I think that is a valid view. It also supports my belief that if we want to improve our situation we have to actually do something. Not just post bring the jobs back to the US...
Industrial Engineer here. One thing missing from this thread is the fact that prototyping, design, innovations, and many other things benefit from having the product designers in close proximity to the production lines. When your designers are more than a few hours away from the production facilities, you lose A LOT of communication. Even if assembly lines are majority automated, there would be HUGE benefits to having production in the USA. With current production methods, an iPhone would only cost an extra ~$20 to produce in the States. With automation, the cost difference would be negligible. We just need to get the whole ecosystem into the States. It can and will happen if we remove all the incentives to offshore. Really, domestic manufacturers are incentivized to offshore by tax and regulatory measures. It's disgusting.
Industrial Engineer here. One thing missing from this thread is the fact that prototyping, design, innovations, and many other things benefit from having the product designers in close proximity to the production lines. When your designers are more than a few hours away from the production facilities, you lose A LOT of communication. Even if assembly lines are majority automated, there would be HUGE benefits to having production in the USA. With current production methods, an iPhone would only cost an extra ~$20 to produce in the States. With automation, the cost difference would be negligible. We just need to get the whole ecosystem into the States. It can and will happen if we remove all the incentives to offshore. Really, domestic manufacturers are incentivized to offshore by tax and regulatory measures. It's disgusting.
Citation needed. There is no indication that Apple has been harmed by overseas production lines.
If co-located designers and production lines were a HUGE advantage then the designers would spend more time in Shenzhen. They don't.
The regulatory measures ensure my kids aren't poisoned by industrial pollution. Something that Chinese kids, even rich ones, don't enjoy unless they live in the US or Europe.
I have an idea. Let's force people living in New York City to drill their own oil wells and farm cattle. Let's tell the folks in Alaska to grow their own cotton for the shirts they wear. Somehow the common sense approach of producing where conditions are most favorable or most economically efficient eludes the emotional minds of those who demand we bring jobs here; jobs that have no advantages to being here.
You miss the point. The folks in New York can go elsewhere for their needs in the USA. As it's one country. Sorry to say, but You've missed the point entirely. Your analogy doesn't follow logic.
And you REALLY missed the point. It's not about nations, it's about nearness to the production sources. America dropped out of electronics manufacturing, except for chips, in the 1970s. Every little-bitty part is made on the other side of the world. Get it?
It's not about "nearness." It's about access and routing. And "little-itty" parts are made elsewhere because America gave up a product economy in favor of a services one. That's not to say there is not value in growing a new economy where product is vialble again. In fact, it seems wise to do so. Leaving such to chin is just leaving money on the table. We have the engineering talent and the resources. Time to make it happen.
Comments
First thought is Apple using CPU and memory produced in the US (Intel/Micron) and assembled in China. There will be all kinds of loopholes that companies will exploit.
For people entering college, they should look to automation technologies (like robotics).
China doesn't want to acquiesce to our human rights laws which would benefit workers here. Nor do they want that gravy train to cease.
Would he be great to see all the dollars funneling OUT of the country make a return here. Then Americans can enjoy some of that gravy and much of the capital issues can be relieved (so long as foolish leaders don't wastefully spend on frivolous pet endeavors yet again).
Moving operations on here will foster innovation to keep the prices competitive throughout the chain. It will also provide a human rights cover legally.
There are many arenas to consider where cost is concerned and many to consider where human being bugs are concerned. And there are solutions. Simply "don't rock the boat" isn't one.
Apple let itself is an American company that has benefited since its inception from being such.
By the way, the top 5 American Made cars in the US are non US brands.
1. Toyota Camry
2. Honda Accord
3. Toyota Sienna
4. Honda Odyssey
5. Honda Pilot
6. Chevrolet Traverse
7. GMC Acadia
8. Buick Enclave
The reasons for this should be obvious by now.
If co-located designers and production lines were a HUGE advantage then the designers would spend more time in Shenzhen. They don't.
The regulatory measures ensure my kids aren't poisoned by industrial pollution. Something that Chinese kids, even rich ones, don't enjoy unless they live in the US or Europe.