It became the new dislike, and wasn't important enough to be worthwhile. I thought about just reducing to simply 'like', but looking around it seems the informative button is being used well and holds some value, so I have no problem leaving that in.
Happy new Year everyone.
Personally, I find these attempts to control posting behavior annoying (beyond methods of identifying and quickly squashing obvious threadjackers and spammers) and I'd be supportive of getting rid of all tags unless they represent a fuller spectrum of opinion, both positive and negative.
"Funny" taking the place of "Dislike" (or whatever) was misguided. As long as "Like" remains there should be its opposite.
Could you just go back to "thumbs up/thumbs down", otherwise there really is no point allowing a fast or convenient way of expressing an opinion.
It became the new dislike, and wasn't important enough to be worthwhile. I thought about just reducing to simply 'like', but looking around it seems the informative button is being used well and holds some value, so I have no problem leaving that in.
Happy new Year everyone.
Personally, I find these attempts to control posting behavior annoying (beyond methods of identifying and quickly squashing obvious threadjackers and spammers) and I'd be supportive of getting rid of all tags unless they represent a fuller spectrum of opinion, both positive and negative.
"Funny" taking the place of "Dislike" (or whatever) was misguided. As long as "Like" remains there should be the opposite. Can you just go back to thumbs up/thumbs down?
IMO informative is a very good tag that shouldn't go away. It lets the reader quickly note that a specific post has information, details, facts or opinion that is very helpful and perhaps not generally known, a certainly worthwhile read. It definitely serves a purpose as quality posts of that type are uncommon. Like? Whatever the forum leadership decides is fine of course, stay or go. At least it's positive and encourages rather than discourages more engagement by less active members.
If you have a like button, and no dislike button, then all that happens is that the trolls will get together and like each other. If you removed the dislike then you really should get rid of all the buttons.
As I've said, whether you're liked or disliked on a blog probably doesn't matter to normal people, so the only value it has is to help people sort through irrelevant posts.
your definition of trolls is, once again, any criticism of Apple.
I've been here since 2003, and have only ever used Apple products, and I occasionally am mildly critical of Apple. So I got about 100 dislikes ( compared to 200 likes) during that time. Recently I managed to pick up 4 funnys. I could post enthusiastically and be assured of 20 likes per post. Seems pointless though as it wouldnt be my opinion.
I think theres a general tendancy to "safe spaces" here, and across the internet, which is hostile to proper discussion, as it merely ends up in ghettoes.
It became the new dislike, and wasn't important enough to be worthwhile. I thought about just reducing to simply 'like', but looking around it seems the informative button is being used well and holds some value, so I have no problem leaving that in.
Happy new Year everyone.
Personally, I find these attempts to control posting behavior annoying (beyond methods of identifying and quickly squashing obvious threadjackers and spammers) and I'd be supportive of getting rid of all tags unless they represent a fuller spectrum of opinion, both positive and negative.
"Funny" taking the place of "Dislike" (or whatever) was misguided. As long as "Like" remains there should be the opposite. Can you just go back to thumbs up/thumbs down?
IMO informative is a very good tag that shouldn't go away. It lets the reader quickly note that a specific post has information, details, facts or opinion that is very helpful and perhaps not generally known, a certainly worthwhile read. It definitely serves a purpose as quality posts of that type are uncommon. Like? Whatever the forum leadership decides is fine of course, stay or go. At least it's positive and encourages rather than discourages more engagement by less active members.
"Informative" is fine, but have you ever seen anyone stop posting because they got a lot of down votes? I haven't. However, I think both positive and negative responses are important to gauge what people are thinking. Only positive responses is just more pavement for the road to "groupthink". If no one finds any value in a down vote, why place any value in an up vote?
If no one finds any value in a down vote, why place any value in an up vote?
Positive reinforcement makes people more willing to interact, it's really that simple. We want people to post, and we need to be able to cycle in new blood as regular user's habits change over time. That's how we keep the forums active and healthy in the long-term.
It became the new dislike, and wasn't important enough to be worthwhile. I thought about just reducing to simply 'like', but looking around it seems the informative button is being used well and holds some value, so I have no problem leaving that in.
Happy new Year everyone.
Personally, I find these attempts to control posting behavior annoying (beyond methods of identifying and quickly squashing obvious threadjackers and spammers) and I'd be supportive of getting rid of all tags unless they represent a fuller spectrum of opinion, both positive and negative.
"Funny" taking the place of "Dislike" (or whatever) was misguided. As long as "Like" remains there should be the opposite. Can you just go back to thumbs up/thumbs down?
IMO informative is a very good tag that shouldn't go away. It lets the reader quickly note that a specific post has information, details, facts or opinion that is very helpful and perhaps not generally known, a certainly worthwhile read. It definitely serves a purpose as quality posts of that type are uncommon. Like? Whatever the forum leadership decides is fine of course, stay or go. At least it's positive and encourages rather than discourages more engagement by less active members.
"Informative" is fine, but have you ever seen anyone stop posting because they got a lot of down votes? I haven't.
How would you know? I've seen a lot of new members go missing, tho I've not bothered to go looking/asking why. I can imagine if a someone new signs up and first honest post in gets whacked with several downvotes (oft-times accompanied by claims of "troll") they might feel discouraged and decide this isn't a very welcoming site, and even worse leave with an unfair stilted view of Apple fans in general. I think that's what the management is trying to avoid. There's no benefit to allowing a handful of loud and too often insulting voices to drowning out intelligent discussion by sending new opinions and posters packing.
If they're truly trolls the mods will deal with it pretty quickly. Jumping in with immediate downvoting to discourage new blood that may simply not be toeing the currently popular line won't help the forum thrive. They could well ahve some very unique insights and experiences that add to the forum value if we give them a chance. We really should be more welcoming to new members. Not everyone who comes in with a first post to note a problem AI has put up a story about is trolling, but they should certainly be forgiven if they think most members believe they are based on the downvotes they would receive. Personally I don't think those frequently using the thumbs-down were ever representative of the forum membership as a whole, just the most egregious. Could be wrong of course but I've been around long enough to understand there's a pretty small but very loud and less-tolerant segment.
The tone of the forum had to change if it was going to continue on, and I believe it's too important a resource not to. We all should appreciate the more dedicated forum leadership instead of nitpicking a silly button, grammatical errors, or moderation efforts. They aren't trying to break it, they're trying to build it up.
It became the new dislike, and wasn't important enough to be worthwhile. I thought about just reducing to simply 'like', but looking around it seems the informative button is being used well and holds some value, so I have no problem leaving that in.
Happy new Year everyone.
Personally, I find these attempts to control posting behavior annoying (beyond methods of identifying and quickly squashing obvious threadjackers and spammers) and I'd be supportive of getting rid of all tags unless they represent a fuller spectrum of opinion, both positive and negative.
"Funny" taking the place of "Dislike" (or whatever) was misguided. As long as "Like" remains there should be the opposite. Can you just go back to thumbs up/thumbs down?
IMO informative is a very good tag that shouldn't go away. It lets the reader quickly note that a specific post has information, details, facts or opinion that is very helpful and perhaps not generally known, a certainly worthwhile read. It definitely serves a purpose as quality posts of that type are uncommon. Like? Whatever the forum leadership decides is fine of course, stay or go. At least it's positive and encourages rather than discourages more engagement by less active members.
"Informative" is fine, but have you ever seen anyone stop posting because they got a lot of down votes? I haven't.
How would you know? I've seen a lot of new members go missing, tho I've not bothered to go looking/asking why. I can imagine if a someone new signs up and first honest post in gets whacked with several downvotes (oft-times accompanied by claims of "troll") they might feel discouraged and decide this isn't a very welcoming site, and even worse leave with an unfair stilted view of Apple fans in general. I think that's what the management is trying to avoid. There's no benefit to allowing a handful of loud and too often insulting voices to drowning out intelligent discussion by sending new opinions and posters packing.
If they're truly trolls the mods will deal with it pretty quickly. Jumping in with immediate downvoting to discourage new blood that may simply not be toeing the currently popular line won't help the forum thrive. They could well ahve some very unique insights and experiences that add to the forum value if we give them a chance. We really should be more welcoming to new members. Not everyone who comes in with a first post to note a problem AI has put up a story about is trolling, but they should certainly be forgiven if they think most members believe they are based on the downvotes they would receive. Personally I don't think those frequently using the thumbs-down were ever representative of the forum membership as a whole, just the most egregious. Could be wrong of course but I've been around long enough to understand there's a pretty small but very loud and less-tolerant segment.
The tone of the forum had to change if it was going to continue on, and I believe it's too important a resource not to. We all should appreciate the more dedicated forum leadership instead of nitpicking a silly button, grammatical errors, or moderation efforts. They aren't trying to break it, they're trying to build it up.
I get the intent, but find the execution wanting. I've been here long enough to see some extremely irritating people completely dominate the forums with no repercussions and I've seen text-based brawls that have gone on for months. Instead of suffering through all out war among posters, I still say there needs to be a non-confrontational way for people to disagree. A simple down vote/ thumbs down does this. Only allowing positive feedback is the equivalent of handing out "participation prizes". I have nothing further to add on the matter.
It became the new dislike, and wasn't important enough to be worthwhile. I thought about just reducing to simply 'like', but looking around it seems the informative button is being used well and holds some value, so I have no problem leaving that in.
Happy new Year everyone.
Personally, I find these attempts to control posting behavior annoying (beyond methods of identifying and quickly squashing obvious threadjackers and spammers) and I'd be supportive of getting rid of all tags unless they represent a fuller spectrum of opinion, both positive and negative.
"Funny" taking the place of "Dislike" (or whatever) was misguided. As long as "Like" remains there should be the opposite. Can you just go back to thumbs up/thumbs down?
IMO informative is a very good tag that shouldn't go away. It lets the reader quickly note that a specific post has information, details, facts or opinion that is very helpful and perhaps not generally known, a certainly worthwhile read. It definitely serves a purpose as quality posts of that type are uncommon. Like? Whatever the forum leadership decides is fine of course, stay or go. At least it's positive and encourages rather than discourages more engagement by less active members.
"Informative" is fine, but have you ever seen anyone stop posting because they got a lot of down votes? I haven't.
How would you know? I've seen a lot of new members go missing, tho I've not bothered to go looking/asking why. I can imagine if a someone new signs up and first honest post in gets whacked with several downvotes (oft-times accompanied by claims of "troll") they might feel discouraged and decide this isn't a very welcoming site, and even worse leave with an unfair stilted view of Apple fans in general. I think that's what the management is trying to avoid. There's no benefit to allowing a handful of loud and too often insulting voices to drowning out intelligent discussion by sending new opinions and posters packing.
If they're truly trolls the mods will deal with it pretty quickly. Jumping in with immediate downvoting to discourage new blood that may simply not be toeing the currently popular line won't help the forum thrive. They could well ahve some very unique insights and experiences that add to the forum value if we give them a chance. We really should be more welcoming to new members. Not everyone who comes in with a first post to note a problem AI has put up a story about is trolling, but they should certainly be forgiven if they think most members believe they are based on the downvotes they would receive. Personally I don't think those frequently using the thumbs-down were ever representative of the forum membership as a whole, just the most egregious. Could be wrong of course but I've been around long enough to understand there's a pretty small but very loud and less-tolerant segment.
The tone of the forum had to change if it was going to continue on, and I believe it's too important a resource not to. We all should appreciate the more dedicated forum leadership instead of nitpicking a silly button, grammatical errors, or moderation efforts. They aren't trying to break it, they're trying to build it up.
I get the intent, but find the execution wanting. I've been here long enough to see some extremely irritating people completely dominate the forums with no repercussions and I've seen text-based brawls that have gone on for months. Instead of suffering through all out war among posters, I still say there needs to be a non-confrontational way for people to disagree. A simple down vote/ thumbs down does this. Only allowing positive feedback is the equivalent of handing out "participation prizes". I have nothing further to add on the matter.
If no one finds any value in a down vote, why place any value in an up vote?
Positive reinforcement makes people more willing to interact, it's really that simple. We want people to post, and we need to be able to cycle in new blood as regular user's habits change over time. That's how we keep the forums active and healthy in the long-term.
This is a valid point, but have you considered a different (side effect) scenario that this will end up with? For example, A made a reasonable criticism to a certain article but B and most of the readers did not agree with him. B responded to A (either politely or otherwise) and got a lots of 'Likes' in return. Whether people actually 'like' B's post is beside the point for what matters here are that they 'dislike' A's post and this is the way they show it. What does that seem to me is the behaviour of collective bullying towards A. This probably something that against what you wanted to achieve here by removing 'dislike'.
If no one finds any value in a down vote, why place any value in an up vote?
Positive reinforcement makes people more willing to interact, it's really that simple. We want people to post, and we need to be able to cycle in new blood as regular user's habits change over time. That's how we keep the forums active and healthy in the long-term.
This is a valid point, but have you considered a different (side effect) scenario that this will end up with? For example, A made a reasonable criticism to a certain article but B and most of the readers did not agree with him. B responded to A (either politely or otherwise) and got a lots of 'Likes' in return. Whether people actually 'like' B's post is beside the point for what matters here are that they 'dislike' A's post and this is the way they show it. What does that seem to me is the behaviour of collective bullying towards A. This probably something that against what you wanted to achieve here by removing 'dislike'.
The only option there is to ban all buttons. I disagree though. I don't care if a decently written response to mine is liked, but I do mind if personal post is disliked.
If no one finds any value in a down vote, why place any value in an up vote?
Positive reinforcement makes people more willing to interact, it's really that simple. We want people to post, and we need to be able to cycle in new blood as regular user's habits change over time. That's how we keep the forums active and healthy in the long-term.
This is a valid point, but have you considered a different (side effect) scenario that this will end up with? For example, A made a reasonable criticism to a certain article but B and most of the readers did not agree with him. B responded to A (either politely or otherwise) and got a lots of 'Likes' in return. Whether people actually 'like' B's post is beside the point for what matters here are that they 'dislike' A's post and this is the way they show it. What does that seem to me is the behaviour of collective bullying towards A. This probably something that against what you wanted to achieve here by removing 'dislike'.
The only option there is to ban all buttons. I disagree though. I don't care if a decently written response to mine is liked, but I do mind if personal post is disliked.
If no one finds any value in a down vote, why place any value in an up vote?
Positive reinforcement makes people more willing to interact, it's really that simple. We want people to post, and we need to be able to cycle in new blood as regular user's habits change over time. That's how we keep the forums active and healthy in the long-term.
This is a valid point, but have you considered a different (side effect) scenario that this will end up with? For example, A made a reasonable criticism to a certain article but B and most of the readers did not agree with him. B responded to A (either politely or otherwise) and got a lots of 'Likes' in return. Whether people actually 'like' B's post is beside the point for what matters here are that they 'dislike' A's post and this is the way they show it. What does that seem to me is the behaviour of collective bullying towards A. This probably something that against what you wanted to achieve here by removing 'dislike'.
The only option there is to ban all buttons. I disagree though. I don't care if a decently written response to mine is liked, but I do mind if personal post is disliked.
There are 29 days in February in leap years.
I find this post informative.
Knock it off.
This is the third post today you've done this. First time you said said 'i "dislike" this post', then just 'thumbs up' and now 'I find this post informative'. You're not clever. If you don't like the forum rules that much, then go somewhere else. You're violating our rules by shitposting.
If no one finds any value in a down vote, why place any value in an up vote?
Positive reinforcement makes people more willing to interact, it's really that simple. We want people to post, and we need to be able to cycle in new blood as regular user's habits change over time. That's how we keep the forums active and healthy in the long-term.
This is a valid point, but have you considered a different (side effect) scenario that this will end up with? For example, A made a reasonable criticism to a certain article but B and most of the readers did not agree with him. B responded to A (either politely or otherwise) and got a lots of 'Likes' in return. Whether people actually 'like' B's post is beside the point for what matters here are that they 'dislike' A's post and this is the way they show it. What does that seem to me is the behaviour of collective bullying towards A. This probably something that against what you wanted to achieve here by removing 'dislike'.
The only option there is to ban all buttons. I disagree though. I don't care if a decently written response to mine is liked, but I do mind if personal post is disliked.
There are 29 days in February in leap years.
I find this post informative.
Knock it off.
This is the third post today you've done this. First time you said said 'i "dislike" this post', then just 'thumbs up' and now 'I find this post informative'. You're not clever. If you don't like the forum rules that much, then go somewhere else. You're violating our rules by shitposting.
Is that really going to be your response? It's like I've come to MacRumors by mistake, but I quit there years ago because they are a horrible website that panders to trolls and promotes people who post shit and cause problems. You are listening to the wrong people when you think you are doing the right things lately, you should know that strongly.
Is that really going to be your response? It's like I've come to MacRumors by mistake, but I quit there years ago because they are a horrible website that panders to trolls and promotes people who post shit and cause problems. You are listening to the wrong people when you think you are doing the right things lately, you should know that strongly.
Wait, so let me get this straight...
Your assertion is that when I ask someone to stop who is literally text-book shitposting, that means that I am promoting people who "post shit" and cause problems?
Is that really going to be your response? It's like I've come to MacRumors by mistake, but I quit there years ago because they are a horrible website that panders to trolls and promotes people who post shit and cause problems. You are listening to the wrong people when you think you are doing the right things lately, you should know that strongly.
Wait, so let me get this straight...
Your assertion is that when I ask someone to stop who is literally text-book shitposting, that means that I am promoting people who "post shit" and cause problems?
No, pretty much it's all of your decisions lately, but most recently it's the extremely unprofessional conduct of you in this public thread.
This button fiasco is a huge fuck up of monumental proportions, and you keep trying to control it by committing more and more wrong decisions. You need to understand that removing the dislike button was a *bad* move, that's fundamental.
Is that really going to be your response? It's like I've come to MacRumors by mistake, but I quit there years ago because they are a horrible website that panders to trolls and promotes people who post shit and cause problems. You are listening to the wrong people when you think you are doing the right things lately, you should know that strongly.
Wait, so let me get this straight...
Your assertion is that when I ask someone to stop who is literally text-book shitposting, that means that I am promoting people who "post shit" and cause problems?
No, pretty much it's all of your decisions lately, but most recently it's the extremely unprofessional conduct of you in this public thread.
This button fiasco is a huge fuck up of monumental proportions, and you keep trying to control it by committing more and more wrong decisions. You need to understand that removing the dislike button was a *bad* move, that's fundamental.
I can understand how you would think that from the limited context of this thread, and the concentrated 'negativity' of a few posters. The metrics, however, in the month or so since the change, do not support your conclusion. I said at the beginning of this that I was more than happy to restore the functionality after a decent amount of time if it wasn't working. The further measures that have since been taken (removing funny, for example) are an effort to better positively tweak the solution or nip some bad trends in the bud before they're allowed to escalate, not to repair any damage removing the button has done.
As for my professionalism, my response to Spam was a little knee-jerk and I'll own up to that, I could have just deleted the post for violating the rules and left it at that. I really don't like deleting posts outside of the news threads though, I'm not trying to hide the discussion. Outside of that I don't see where I've been anything but extremely accommodating to a small set of users. I get that not having access to all the data (and no we're not going to post public numbers) puts half of the discussion at a disadvantage, but that's just how it is. I explained clearly in my original post the reasons for making the decision to remove the button. None of that has changed.
Is that really going to be your response? It's like I've come to MacRumors by mistake, but I quit there years ago because they are a horrible website that panders to trolls and promotes people who post shit and cause problems. You are listening to the wrong people when you think you are doing the right things lately, you should know that strongly.
Wait, so let me get this straight...
Your assertion is that when I ask someone to stop who is literally text-book shitposting, that means that I am promoting people who "post shit" and cause problems?
No, pretty much it's all of your decisions lately, but most recently it's the extremely unprofessional conduct of you in this public thread.
This button fiasco is a huge fuck up of monumental proportions, and you keep trying to control it by committing more and more wrong decisions. You need to understand that removing the dislike button was a *bad* move, that's fundamental.
It was a great move.
I used to moderate a large site ( not Apple related) Dislike buttons always annoy people and reduce debate, except those who desire an echo chamber. The cause a gang up on certain posts. They cause people to self edit etc. I dont particularly like like buttons either, but they are useful to say "I agree and dont need to post". If you disagree, post your response. Or if someone else does a good rebuttal of that post, like that.
And clearly in this thread there are people now using the informative button incorrectly.
Is that really going to be your response? It's like I've come to MacRumors by mistake, but I quit there years ago because they are a horrible website that panders to trolls and promotes people who post shit and cause problems. You are listening to the wrong people when you think you are doing the right things lately, you should know that strongly.
Wait, so let me get this straight...
Your assertion is that when I ask someone to stop who is literally text-book shitposting, that means that I am promoting people who "post shit" and cause problems?
No, pretty much it's all of your decisions lately, but most recently it's the extremely unprofessional conduct of you in this public thread.
This button fiasco is a huge fuck up of monumental proportions, and you keep trying to control it by committing more and more wrong decisions. You need to understand that removing the dislike button was a *bad* move, that's fundamental.
It was a great move.
I used to moderate a large site ( not Apple related) Dislike buttons always annoy people and reduce debate, except those who desire an echo chamber. The cause a gang up on certain posts. They cause people to self edit etc. I dont particularly like like buttons either, but they are useful to say "I agree and dont need to post". If you disagree, post your response. Or if someone else does a good rebuttal of that post, like that.
And clearly in this thread there are people now using the informative button incorrectly.
It's logically inconsistent to argue for the removal of a Dislike button based on this: "...I dont particularly like like buttons either, but they are useful to say "I agree and dont need to post". If you disagree, post your response..."
A more logically consistent argument is, "eliminate all buttons because they are a poor substitute for discourse and debate."
Is that really going to be your response? It's like I've come to MacRumors by mistake, but I quit there years ago because they are a horrible website that panders to trolls and promotes people who post shit and cause problems. You are listening to the wrong people when you think you are doing the right things lately, you should know that strongly.
Wait, so let me get this straight...
Your assertion is that when I ask someone to stop who is literally text-book shitposting, that means that I am promoting people who "post shit" and cause problems?
No, pretty much it's all of your decisions lately, but most recently it's the extremely unprofessional conduct of you in this public thread.
This button fiasco is a huge fuck up of monumental proportions, and you keep trying to control it by committing more and more wrong decisions. You need to understand that removing the dislike button was a *bad* move, that's fundamental.
It was a great move.
I used to moderate a large site ( not Apple related) Dislike buttons always annoy people and reduce debate, except those who desire an echo chamber. The cause a gang up on certain posts. They cause people to self edit etc. I dont particularly like like buttons either, but they are useful to say "I agree and dont need to post". If you disagree, post your response. Or if someone else does a good rebuttal of that post, like that.
And clearly in this thread there are people now using the informative button incorrectly.
It's logically inconsistent to argue for the removal of a Dislike button based on this: "...I dont particularly like like buttons either, but they are useful to say "I agree and dont need to post". If you disagree, post your response..."
A more logically consistent argument is, "eliminate all buttons because they are a poor substitute for discourse and debate."
Still see "informative" as a useful button since (used properly) it signifies an unusually helpful post, uncommonly "informative". Generally it would be something like a mention of a fix for a problem users might have, maybe a not-widely known suggestion/hint/time-saver for device users, or perhaps a clearly stated explanation of an otherwise confusing or misunderstood issue that's being reported in the news.
So to me "informative" votes should be noting a particularly worthy post, one well-worth the time to read. Of course selfish motives from a tiny number of members could cause that one to be useless too, which would be a loss IMHO, as well as a waste of time if it's supposed to be saying "we don't like that post" since it simply encourages that post to be read with the presumption there's something of significant importance said in it.
Comments
"Funny" taking the place of "Dislike" (or whatever) was misguided. As long as "Like" remains there should be its opposite.
Could you just go back to "thumbs up/thumbs down", otherwise there really is no point allowing a fast or convenient way of expressing an opinion.
I've been here since 2003, and have only ever used Apple products, and I occasionally am mildly critical of Apple. So I got about 100 dislikes ( compared to 200 likes) during that time. Recently I managed to pick up 4 funnys. I could post enthusiastically and be assured of 20 likes per post. Seems pointless though as it wouldnt be my opinion.
I think theres a general tendancy to "safe spaces" here, and across the internet, which is hostile to proper discussion, as it merely ends up in ghettoes.
Positive reinforcement makes people more willing to interact, it's really that simple. We want people to post, and we need to be able to cycle in new blood as regular user's habits change over time. That's how we keep the forums active and healthy in the long-term.
If they're truly trolls the mods will deal with it pretty quickly. Jumping in with immediate downvoting to discourage new blood that may simply not be toeing the currently popular line won't help the forum thrive. They could well ahve some very unique insights and experiences that add to the forum value if we give them a chance. We really should be more welcoming to new members. Not everyone who comes in with a first post to note a problem AI has put up a story about is trolling, but they should certainly be forgiven if they think most members believe they are based on the downvotes they would receive. Personally I don't think those frequently using the thumbs-down were ever representative of the forum membership as a whole, just the most egregious. Could be wrong of course but I've been around long enough to understand there's a pretty small but very loud and less-tolerant segment.
The tone of the forum had to change if it was going to continue on, and I believe it's too important a resource not to. We all should appreciate the more dedicated forum leadership instead of nitpicking a silly button, grammatical errors, or moderation efforts. They aren't trying to break it, they're trying to build it up.
Since these guys are ruining a useful button (and it's probably the same few muppets) let's ban the muppets not the button.
Also the largest land animal ever was the Sauropoda
There are 29 days in February in leap years.
This is the third post today you've done this. First time you said said 'i "dislike" this post', then just 'thumbs up' and now 'I find this post informative'. You're not clever. If you don't like the forum rules that much, then go somewhere else. You're violating our rules by shitposting.
Your assertion is that when I ask someone to stop who is literally text-book shitposting, that means that I am promoting people who "post shit" and cause problems?
This button fiasco is a huge fuck up of monumental proportions, and you keep trying to control it by committing more and more wrong decisions. You need to understand that removing the dislike button was a *bad* move, that's fundamental.
As for my professionalism, my response to Spam was a little knee-jerk and I'll own up to that, I could have just deleted the post for violating the rules and left it at that. I really don't like deleting posts outside of the news threads though, I'm not trying to hide the discussion. Outside of that I don't see where I've been anything but extremely accommodating to a small set of users. I get that not having access to all the data (and no we're not going to post public numbers) puts half of the discussion at a disadvantage, but that's just how it is. I explained clearly in my original post the reasons for making the decision to remove the button. None of that has changed.
I used to moderate a large site ( not Apple related) Dislike buttons always annoy people and reduce debate, except those who desire an echo chamber. The cause a gang up on certain posts. They cause people to self edit etc. I dont particularly like like buttons either, but they are useful to say "I agree and dont need to post". If you disagree, post your response. Or if someone else does a good rebuttal of that post, like that.
And clearly in this thread there are people now using the informative button incorrectly.
A more logically consistent argument is, "eliminate all buttons because they are a poor substitute for discourse and debate."
So to me "informative" votes should be noting a particularly worthy post, one well-worth the time to read. Of course selfish motives from a tiny number of members could cause that one to be useless too, which would be a loss IMHO, as well as a waste of time if it's supposed to be saying "we don't like that post" since it simply encourages that post to be read with the presumption there's something of significant importance said in it.