Ford, Toyota herald new members on board with Apple CarPlay-opposing industry group

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 50
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,711member
    The reason a car manufacturer would not like CarPlay or android auto is that it reduces the opportunity for upsell to higher cost models using multimedia features at the time of purchase of the car, and selling high priced updates at service intervals. If all that stuff is done by the phone, they lose those revenue opportunities.  

    Their strategy will fail.
    palomineStrangeDaysstompyration alRayz2016badmonkGeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 50
    "They are not trying to go against CarPlay", "Most of these companies are doing this in addition to offering CarPlay."
    Sorry you are incorrect.  Toyota has already announced that it will not support CarPlay directly.  Even Ford currently is planning on supporting both.

    "For those of you basing your auto purchase on CarPlay, don't.  At the moment its very gimmicky. "
    That's your opinion.  I personally like it very much.  And my car purchases going forward will support either or both of Apple's and Google's offerings directly.

    "Unless the car offers wireless car play, don't choose a car that is inferior in other categories just to get standard CarPlay or you may end up be disappointed that you did."
    This applies no matter what even to the open source version.  So it is not a valid argument either way.  There is a much greater chance of this happening from Apple and Google then the open source version as the Apple and Google version will be several versions ahead of the open source version.

    edited January 2017 Rayz2016
  • Reply 23 of 50
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    "Hey, let's only offer cars our customers will be dissatisfied with..."
  • Reply 24 of 50
    ceek74ceek74 Posts: 324member
    Ford & Toyota execs - "Give the customers what the customers want! (long awkward pause) PWAH HA haha ha"
    Rayz2016
  • Reply 25 of 50
    Two stupid companies.

    If I held stock in either F or TM -- thankfully, I don't, directly -- I would unload all those holdings today.
  • Reply 26 of 50
    davendaven Posts: 646member
    macxpress said:
    paxman said:
    macxpress said:
    Kinda late to the party...its already taken off on both sides (Android Auto and CarPlay). What will they offer to make others switch and stop supporting this? I think in the end all they're going to do is piss off customers (like Toyota already has) and people just won't buy their products.
    If Smart Device Link is the default set-up, and 'it just works', and works well, I'd think most people will just go with it. If you step into your car the first time and it informs you that it has detected your phone and asks if you'd like to set it up it would be tempting to say 'yes'. I wouldn't be surprised if most people think they have CarPlay working.  If in order to get CapPlay working you have to go into a convoluted settings menu structure in order to enable it it will further discourage.  

    Just being a devils advocate here.
    I believe to enable CarPlay all you have to do is plug it in and it comes up. There are no special settings to setup or go through. Its pretty much plug n pray. If SmartLink is supposed to work with your phone and stuff I don't see it as it "just working". There are way too many different kinds of phones it will have to support vs Android Auto and CarPlay are just built into the phone's OS. Maybe I'm missing something?
    I think the motivation is that with CarPlay or Android Auto is that if it doesn't work, the car company takes the blame for not implementing it correctly. With Smart Device Link the car manufacturer will blame the phone maker for not implementing Smart Device Link correctly.
    Rayz2016
  • Reply 27 of 50
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,924member
    Dear car makers, your software sucks. I've seen Android CarPlay and Apple CarPlay. Both are similar and are easy to use. Apple's was plug and play. Android you had to fudge around a bit but it worked. 
  • Reply 28 of 50
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,712member
    macxpress said:
    paxman said:
    macxpress said:
    Kinda late to the party...its already taken off on both sides (Android Auto and CarPlay). What will they offer to make others switch and stop supporting this? I think in the end all they're going to do is piss off customers (like Toyota already has) and people just won't buy their products.
    If Smart Device Link is the default set-up, and 'it just works', and works well, I'd think most people will just go with it. If you step into your car the first time and it informs you that it has detected your phone and asks if you'd like to set it up it would be tempting to say 'yes'. I wouldn't be surprised if most people think they have CarPlay working.  If in order to get CapPlay working you have to go into a convoluted settings menu structure in order to enable it it will further discourage.  

    Just being a devils advocate here.
    I believe to enable CarPlay all you have to do is plug it in and it comes up. There are no special settings to setup or go through. Its pretty much plug n pray. If SmartLink is supposed to work with your phone and stuff I don't see it as it "just working". There are way too many different kinds of phones it will have to support vs Android Auto and CarPlay are just built into the phone's OS. Maybe I'm missing something?

    I think paxman is saying that Smart Device could succeed IF two things are true: (a) it works well and (b) CarPlay is hidden behind menus, etc.  Paxman isn't saying CarPlay is difficult to use - he's saying that automakers could purposely make CarPlay difficult to use in order to encourage to encourage use of Smart Device.  (b) is possible.  (a) seems unlikely given what we have seen to date from the OEMs.
    Yes, that's right. Its all about the path of least resistance. :smile:

    edited January 2017
  • Reply 29 of 50
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,419member
    daven said:
    macxpress said:
    paxman said:
    macxpress said:
    Kinda late to the party...its already taken off on both sides (Android Auto and CarPlay). What will they offer to make others switch and stop supporting this? I think in the end all they're going to do is piss off customers (like Toyota already has) and people just won't buy their products.
    If Smart Device Link is the default set-up, and 'it just works', and works well, I'd think most people will just go with it. If you step into your car the first time and it informs you that it has detected your phone and asks if you'd like to set it up it would be tempting to say 'yes'. I wouldn't be surprised if most people think they have CarPlay working.  If in order to get CapPlay working you have to go into a convoluted settings menu structure in order to enable it it will further discourage.  

    Just being a devils advocate here.
    I believe to enable CarPlay all you have to do is plug it in and it comes up. There are no special settings to setup or go through. Its pretty much plug n pray. If SmartLink is supposed to work with your phone and stuff I don't see it as it "just working". There are way too many different kinds of phones it will have to support vs Android Auto and CarPlay are just built into the phone's OS. Maybe I'm missing something?
    I think the motivation is that with CarPlay or Android Auto is that if it doesn't work, the car company takes the blame for not implementing it correctly. With Smart Device Link the car manufacturer will blame the phone maker for not implementing Smart Device Link correctly.
    If thats the case then Apple simply won't support Smart Device Link and then its dead in the water because hundreds of millions of phones automatically don't work with it. Its really a lost cause if this is the case. With Apple's size and market you cannot just build something completely different when they already have a solution and expect Apple to be forced to comply and forget their own technology. Like someone else said, this kinda sounds like CurrentC. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 50
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member

    For me, IMO, someone who has worked in aerospace and with pilot human factors in flight deck design.. one of the first lessons was touch - feel for important systems. This does two things - pilot can feel which system button/knob they are touching; that allows the pilot to keep their eyes out the window for situational awareness!   Gosh, I miss buttons and knobs in these new cars. Ford interface to radio etc is atrocious.... and that's their latest 'improved' one. The best I have seen (because the have easy buttons and knobs)  are Chrysler and VW... but VW just went touch also... sigh!


    Side track comment--- imo- one of the big problems with today computer OS's is cannot find the features or commands, they are buried in menu or force touch or something.... when I started in aerospace CAD design, we had a standalone control box with labeled button commands and a touch screen pencil (sound familiar). A user could fly(pun) in work productivity, it was similar to FCP keyboard short cuts but in an easy to use console .

    Cars / keyboards--- they need more visible buttons!!!

    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 31 of 50
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,282member
    Just bought a brand new car with CarPlay. Used for a few days and simply don't use it anymore. It's not all that great (for me) as it doesn't provide that much benefit over using USB/Bluetooth for streaming music or maps which I personally still find a little lacking over Google maps as proven on my six hour drive that I just took. 

    I'm sure, and hope, it will get better over time. But for right now I just use Bluetooth and or connect use USB. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 32 of 50
    Here's a car connectivity question.  Why hasn't any manufacturer started including a real mounting dock (no wires, a sturdy mount, the correct orientation, etc.)?  For iOS it's easy (one connector, only a few form factors, etc.).  Even for Android, it shouldn't be too hard to cover most of the dominant devices.  The space taken up by a CD loading slot should be about right to have a pop-out platform that includes a sturdy port (that can swap between lightning and micro-USB).  This would reduce clutter and wires snaking around the cockpit area (usually from a center console to the dash).
    There have been a few cell phone docks offered as options in luxury cars in years past (usually in the center console area), but now that we are well into the smart phone era, I too wonder why the car companies never figured out how to provide a convenient mounting location (with connections) that positions a mobile phone within glancing distance. I can't imagine it would be a liability thing, considering how many vent-clip products and other accessories are out there.

    I suppose better mobile device integration like CarPlay/Android Auto may make positioning within sight less important, but an easy to reach dock should be as ubiquitous as cup holders. (Although I guess it took the car companies decades to figure out cup holders).
  • Reply 33 of 50
    Two stupid companies.

    If I held stock in either F or TM -- thankfully, I don't, directly -- I would unload all those holdings today.
    I had a large buy order for Ford stock in 2008 that never went through because it fell just shy of the amount it finally fell to. I would've made quite a nice profit if the order had gone through. 
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 34 of 50
    toddzrxtoddzrx Posts: 244member
    FWIW: I just bought a barely used 2016 VW Golf Sportwagen 2 weeks ago; great car at a great price.  One of the selling points for me was that it has Apple CarPlay.  Being that my wife and I are both iPhone users, and that both of our cars (one of which we traded in) are old and didn't have anything resembling a modern infotainment system, having Apple CarPlay is great.  Plug in the phone and use it.  No need for directions; it's very intuitive.  We used Maps to get around Arizona last week when we did a long day trip.  And being able to easily access music is great.  I understand that if you're getting in the car for a 5 or 10 minute drive it's annoying to have to plug in, but that's small potatoes in the grand scheme.  I am very pleased with it, and the rest of the car for that matter.

    As far as the article is concerned: being that iOS and Android have 95% of the smart phone market (or maybe more for all I know), it makes no sense to me to invest in your own system when there's already something out there that works great.  I think it'll just be a waste of money for these car companies.
  • Reply 35 of 50
    CarPlay is popular because automakers utterly suck at interfaces.


    jesusfreakSpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 50
    Do they realize that their software sucks?
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 37 of 50
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,707member
    "...allows the vehicle manufacturer to retain control over the look and feel of the user interface."

    Yeah - I've used their crappy interfaces. They suck. Apple and Google have been designing user interfaces for years, and while they may not be perfect they are light years ahead of most Car Manufacturers. 

    There's another benefit to this - you learn Car Play (or Android Auto) and you're done. New car? Same interface. How is learning a new interface for every single car better? I think the post someone listed above regarding upsell may be right. If you have Car Play, why would you pay and extra $1000 for the navigation system?
    stompy
  • Reply 38 of 50
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member
    Fords previous attempts were train wrecks. Not hopeful. 
  • Reply 39 of 50
    designrdesignr Posts: 764member
    entropys said:
    The reason a car manufacturer would not like CarPlay or android auto is that it reduces the opportunity for upsell to higher cost models using multimedia features at the time of purchase of the car, and selling high priced updates at service intervals. If all that stuff is done by the phone, they lose those revenue opportunities.  

    Their strategy will fail.
    This is very similar to what the cellular phone companies used to do by selling you phones that could only buy content (e.g., music, apps, ring tones, etc.) through their services. This eventually failed. They feared becoming just a generic (wireless) pipe. That's pretty much where we are now.

    Very similar to what companies like Comcast are trying desperately to hold onto the cable TV businesses. They fear becoming just a generic (broadband) pipe. That's where we're headed.

    All of this disintegration is good because it should force companies who specialize in each area...
    • Car companies make cars. Focus on doing that well and integrating products and services (in car electronics systems) for other things from other specialists.
    • Cellular companies run wireless phone (now data) networks. Focus on doing that well and integrating products and services (phones, etc.) for other things from other specialists.
    • Cable companies run wired TV (now digital broadband) networks. Focus on doing that well and integrating products and services (set top devices, etc.) for other things from other specialists.
    This is actually why I'm glad to hear that Apple has shelved their plans for making cars. I was skeptical they would have done very well. It's outside of their wheelhouse. Apple knows digital electronics and software (and integrating them together) better than anyone. There's a lot of mileage left in that skill set.

  • Reply 40 of 50
    altivec88 said:
    If you are like me, you like to get in your car and drive.  Not fiddle around with your phone and attaching cables.  For long trips its worth the effort but you will soon keep your phone in your pocket for everyday drives.   Unless the car offers wireless car play, don't choose a car that is inferior in other categories just to get standard CarPlay or you may end up be disappointed that you did.

    EDIT: Pipped by Rare Comment!

    edited January 2017
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