Mac sales stabilize in Q4 amid worldwide PC shipment decline

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    thedbathedba Posts: 682member
    cropr said:
    Soli said:
    1) Why should you or I "feel bad" (or "feel good," for that matter) that Dell had a certain number of unit shipments in a quarter. Their unit shipment mean nothing to me as a Mac user. I doubt even the CEO of Apple "feels bad" that Dell had a slight uptick in cheap PC unit shipments.
    If there is one PC supplier that Tim Cook is watching it must be Dell.  The Dell XPS is probably the only real competitor of the Macbook Pro
    No it isn't. I've seen it on a colleagues desk, bought his same time as my 2015 rMBP. 
    Their trackpad is inferior, their screen not as nice and as for speed, it's just slow as hell. Their default config comes with what Apple calls a fusion drive. Good for loading up the OS and slow at everything else. 
    Dell's done what every other PC manufacturer does. Cut corners, in order to lower price. 
    About the only place Dell beats out Apple is in their standard warranty. They offer 3 years to Apple's 1. 
    edited January 2017 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 49
    When looking at the yearly sales Apple performed even worse than the rest of the PC market.
    When cherry picking the IDC data for Q4/2016 Apple sold less Macs than 2015 although there was the pent up demand for the MBP.

    I think that Apple starts to hike the prices too much. With the new MBP you get a smaller battery, a faster interface for the SSD, connectivity that forces you to buy adapters or break out boxes (until peripherals get updated), a new touch sensitive strip and a lot of old technology (processor, RAM, IGP; not Apples fault) and Apple charges you 25% more money and reduces any upgrade options. I think Apple is not paying 25% more for processor and RAM.

    But we will know the real numbers by end of January.
  • Reply 23 of 49
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,497member
    thedba said:
    cropr said:
    Soli said:
    1) Why should you or I "feel bad" (or "feel good," for that matter) that Dell had a certain number of unit shipments in a quarter. Their unit shipment mean nothing to me as a Mac user. I doubt even the CEO of Apple "feels bad" that Dell had a slight uptick in cheap PC unit shipments.
    If there is one PC supplier that Tim Cook is watching it must be Dell.  The Dell XPS is probably the only real competitor of the Macbook Pro
    No it isn't. I've seen it on a colleagues desk, bought his same time as my 2015 rMBP. 
    Their trackpad is inferior, their screen not as nice and as for speed, it's just slow as hell. They're default config comes with what Apple calls a fusion drive. Good for loading up the OS and slow at everything else. 
    Dell's done what every other PC manufacturer does. Cut corners, in order to lower price. 
    About the only place Dell beats out Apple is in their standard warranty. They offer 3 years to Apple's 1. 
    That is why we bought a Spectre as the wintel alternative to our MBAs, rather than the XPS.  Better build quality.  Have to say though the trackpad is not as good as an MBP or even the MBA.  No windows machine is.  
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 24 of 49
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,068member
    Hmm, I don't know why people think this is positive?  An increase of 2.4% for the year where there was "pent up demand" is a bit disappointing. Two of the reports had negative growth in Q4 where there were new machines introduced!

    I'm assuming the 13" rMBP and MBA are their most popular models but having had only 1 month of full on sales (2 months for the base 13" rMBP) of the new rMBP models, we'll have to see. 

    I think the followup quarter will be more telling.

    Although I do feel the PC segment as a whole is to blame for lack luster sales, the $300 bump in prices for a more premium machine didn't help the situation.
    2.4% is growth for the quarter.   For the year it was down -0,9%.    Looking at the quarter you and year both HP and DELL grew more.    I bet they didn't hold out upgrading their computers for a new keyboard.   It seems like just a few years ago Apple was gaining market share on the big PC Manufacturers.    (Maybe Cook is looking forward to the time when he can become a windows EOM.)

    DELL and HP are upgrading their computers each year with the newest Intel CPUs.    They aren't going to sell you 2 or 3 year old technology at the same price as incroduction. 

    Hopefully Apple will figure out that they need to update all their computers including the MacPro and MacMini.    They also need to figure out that these MBP are really just updated AIRs and they need to come out with machines with more CPU power and return the MagSafe and SD slot to the Pro.    As it is now Apple is telling Photographers to go else where.

    Having developed the TouchBar they need to get that on all their computers ASAP.    Its a nice feature but isn't a must have that carries a $300 premium.   Better drop that to $129.    ($199 got for a USBC Keyboard). Does Apple sell USB-C wired Keyboard???

    P.S.   I bet SIRI on Sierra didn't sell a single computer. 

  • Reply 25 of 49
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,762member
    We will see in first half of this year when love for new macbook pro will subside..Surge in demand was due to those waiting to upgrade Macbook pro for long time and there was large deployments by IBM. 2016 Macbook pro is awesome laptop but priced much higher for what it offers. Not everyone cares for fency touch-strip macbook pro but better price. I can't believe Apple can not make/offer non-touch strip low end macbook-pro at $1199-$1299. Moreover, low end suppose to offer one USB port each side, total three ports or for consistency 2 on each side..
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 26 of 49
    neilmneilm Posts: 954member
    entropys said:
    spheric said:
    scottkrk2 said:
    If they released a MBA with a retina screen they would sell a lot more ..... Oh, and a MBP with a full set of ports for professionals
    They did both of those things. The first with the non-Touch bar 13"; the second with the 15" machines and four full-speed multifunctional Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports. Much more flexible and "pro" than limited single-purpose ports of which only some are going to be useful to only a fraction of users. Stop whining.
    Yes, the non touchbar MBP is in fact the retina MBA we never got, and everybody wanted.  It just priced like a MBP. $300 less and it would still be supply constrained by next Christmas.
    You know, the pricing is kind of interesting. I've bought a shed-load of MBA's for the office, plus a couple each of the 2015 rMBP and the 2016 rMBP Touch (all 13").

    If you look at current pricing for an 8GB/256GB, the Air runs $1349 with the processor bump to 2.2 GHz (I don't buy the base 1.6 Ghz versions). The 2016 non-Touch Bar MBP costs $1499 for the comparable 2.0 Ghz configuration. So effectively you're paying $150 more for a retina screen, similar performance, the same light weight in a smaller footprint, and more flexible connectivity but squeezed into fewer ports. I think that's a pretty fair deal. The 2016 MBP also allows you more and better spec upgrade choices compared to the Air, albeit at the usual rather stiff price adders.

    The next time I need to add another general purpose laptop it'll now likely be a non-Touch 2016 MBP. 

    My own 2016 MBP is a high spec unit (16GB/1TB, 3.1GHz) that got expensive rather quickly as I ticked the options boxes. I'm more than happy with the end result, but sure could wish that the options were more reasonably priced. $200 to go from 8GB RAM to 16GB? Puhlease!
  • Reply 27 of 49
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,492member
    These tables always miss that column headed "World Profit Share".  Only citing volume feeds into the same narrative as idiots claiming Samsung Smart phones are beating iPhones.  Volume means nothing.
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 28 of 49
    noelos said:
    Hmm, I don't know why people think this is positive?  An increase of 2.4% for the year where there was "pent up demand" is a bit disappointing. Two of the reports had negative growth in Q4 where there were new machines introduced!
    There were supply constraints though. Remember, delivery times quickly blew out to 6 weeks which meant they weren't meeting the "pent up demand". As I understand it Apple doesn't book the sale until it ships.
    Yes, could very well be supply side issues, so will be interesting to listen to the earnings call and also to see what happens next quarter.
  • Reply 29 of 49
    copeland said:

    I think that Apple starts to hike the prices too much. With the new MBP you get a smaller battery, a faster interface for the SSD, connectivity that forces you to buy adapters or break out boxes (until peripherals get updated), a new touch sensitive strip and a lot of old technology (processor, RAM, IGP; not Apples fault) and Apple charges you 25% more money and reduces any upgrade options. I think Apple is not paying 25% more for processor and RAM.

    But we will know the real numbers by end of January.
    Smaller Battery:  Because the HW/SW integration and OS efficiency is so much better you don't need a mega-battery; better for weight/cost/environment; everything.
    forces you to buy adapters:  If you already have a cable to connect something else, who cares if there's an adapter on the end of that cable, esp when it's the minority; while the majority enjoys an optimized experience?
    25% more money:  For a machine that lasts 200% to 300% as long.  Great value  Our 2009 MacBook Intel Core 2 duo (later maxxed out to 4GB of RAM for like $40 a few years ago), simply will not die.  That machine is basic use-case:  Internet, e-mail, but it's still fine, and the Aluminum case, once wiped down, STILL looks like a brand new machine.

    While I would personally have asked/begged for sD-slot, perhaps even that doesn't matter if there's an sD->USB-C adapter..  I take a fair amount of home pix, but only stick the card in my (2009) iMac....5 times a month?  Can live with an adapter even for that if I was MacBook Pro.

    Apple's providing a good value proposition, with a tilt towards pricey-ness at the high end.

    E.
  • Reply 30 of 49
    How much does forcing new hardware buyers onto an effectively ß.1 or ß.2 version of an OS simply invite sales resistance?
    As opposed to the Alpha Release that is Windows 10? Well, that's what most of those PC's sold by HP etc will be running simply because there is no support for the hardware in older (beta) versions of Windows.

    My understanding is one can still run W7pro on the latest machines, but maybe not as you say, with missing drivers for new features on some ?

    As far as competition in hardware design I've been eyeing Razer & <gasp> Microsoft, the latter more for the Surface Studio, assuming it gets debugged.

    Aside from Razer's unibody black aluminum 17" 4K Blade Pro, here is a proto triple 4k screen laptop:
    https://www.dezeen.com/2017/01/10/razer-three-screened-laptops-stolen-from-ces-news-technology/
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 31 of 49
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,694member
    k2kw said:

    P.S.   I bet SIRI on Sierra didn't sell a single computer. 

    Think about that. Somewhere inside the Apple Compound, someone has to be saying "this is what our products do." Even in the days of deciding between a Performa 6400 and an LC550, I don't think I've seen more confusion than there is now.

    Other than my iPhone 7 (oh, and my ATV4), all of by household apple products are pretty dated. Why? Because they all work for the purposes intended. I recently did buy an iPad Pro for my wife for the holidays, but it replaced an iPad 2 (that I have plans to repurpose). I have a family member running not 1, but 2 white 2006 iMacs. Why? Because they suit his needs. They work.

    I pondered a sale on the iPad mini 4 to replace my original iPad mini. $300. Sure, it's nice to have new things. But what does $300 buy me? Nothing I particularly value.

    I do wonder if somewhere in The Compound there is a "Department of Planned Obsolescence." My point? Eh. Maybe its that Apple needs to think more about meeting their customers expectations than making a bigger pile of cash. But what do I know.
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 32 of 49
    birkobirko Posts: 60member
    nht said:
    birko said:
    I agree. The just announced XPS 2-in-1 is a great idea - unfortunately only announced running windows which means I will not be buying it. If they release a Linux version I seriously consider it for my next away from home machine.
    1) If you don't know how to install Linux over windows then Linux is not the right solution for you.

    2) The normal XPS 13 come in a developer edition with Ubuntu 16.04 LTS.  I don't know anyone that bought one...everyone I know bought the windows version so they had a dual boot option.  Often they do a coupon code discount and if you downgrade to Win 10 Home and apply the coupon it's the same price as the Ubuntu version so why not?

    3) Touch screen support in Linux still sucks.  You probably want Elementary over the Ubuntu install Dell usually does.
    Doing a normal install over a desktop or laptop is not a problem. But getting it to convert to tablet mode and disable keyboard is beyond my skill set. I am assuming it would need a driver that would only exist if Dell write it, and they won't do this unless they release a Linux version of the device.

    If you think I am wrong and it can be done easily I would love to hear from you.

     
  • Reply 33 of 49
    AI_liasAI_lias Posts: 427member
    So good to see many people here who are not whining, and are good Apple users and customers. Good job! Because of you, Apple will continue to keep releasing all kinds of good products, and will continue to perpetually do better and better. Good times for Apple ahead.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 49
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    birko said:
    nht said:
    birko said:
    I agree. The just announced XPS 2-in-1 is a great idea - unfortunately only announced running windows which means I will not be buying it. If they release a Linux version I seriously consider it for my next away from home machine.
    1) If you don't know how to install Linux over windows then Linux is not the right solution for you.

    2) The normal XPS 13 come in a developer edition with Ubuntu 16.04 LTS.  I don't know anyone that bought one...everyone I know bought the windows version so they had a dual boot option.  Often they do a coupon code discount and if you downgrade to Win 10 Home and apply the coupon it's the same price as the Ubuntu version so why not?

    3) Touch screen support in Linux still sucks.  You probably want Elementary over the Ubuntu install Dell usually does.
    Doing a normal install over a desktop or laptop is not a problem. But getting it to convert to tablet mode and disable keyboard is beyond my skill set. I am assuming it would need a driver that would only exist if Dell write it, and they won't do this unless they release a Linux version of the device.

    If you think I am wrong and it can be done easily I would love to hear from you.
    You probably have to wait a little while until Ubuntu provides better 2 in 1 support and I personally don't expect really good support until after 17.04 and Unity 8 launches as a default desktop option.   Unity 8 is supposed to give us perfection and light, not to mention a unified desktop/touch UI baseline...something a 2-in-1 would want.  So the (mostly) seamless support you see in Windows 10 is also beyond Dell's skill set as it's not just another driver.

    Given that Dell likes to use LTS releases...a Dell Linux 2-in-1 may not appear until Ubuntu 18.04 LTS...

    For DIY I would expect folks to piece it together later this year using 17.04 or 17.10 as you can get already 80%+ functionality out of Ubuntu today on many 2-in-1s.  You're asking for something in that last 20%.  Ubuntu will get there.  Eventually.
    edited January 2017 birko
  • Reply 35 of 49
    birkobirko Posts: 60member
    nht said:
    You probably have to wait a little while until Ubuntu provides better 2 in 1 support and I personally don't expect really good support until after 17.04 and Unity 8 launches as a default desktop option.   Unity 8 is supposed to give us perfection and light, not to mention a unified desktop/touch UI baseline...something a 2-in-1 would want.  So the (mostly) seamless support you see in Windows 10 is also beyond Dell's skill set as it's not just another driver.

    Given that Dell likes to use LTS releases...a Dell Linux 2-in-1 may not appear until Ubuntu 18.04 LTS...

    For DIY I would expect folks to piece it together later this year using 17.04 or 17.10 as you can get already 80%+ functionality out of Ubuntu today on many 2-in-1s.  You're asking for something in that last 20%.  Ubuntu will get there.  Eventually.
    Thank you.
  • Reply 36 of 49
    Smaller Battery:  Because the HW/SW integration and OS efficiency is so much better you don't need a mega-battery; better for weight/cost/environment; everything.
    What about more uptime when doing more than light web surfing and writing e-mail?

    25% more money:  For a machine that lasts 200% to 300% as long.  Great value  Our 2009 MacBook Intel Core 2 duo (later maxxed out to 4GB of RAM for like $40 a few years ago), simply will not die.  That machine is basic use-case:  Internet, e-mail, but it's still fine, and the Aluminum case, once wiped down, STILL looks like a brand new machine.
    I wasn't comparing the MBP to Wintel machines but to the Macs they replace!
  • Reply 37 of 49
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,113member
    jdw said:
    The main thing I see from that data is that Dell had more growth than anyone else. That fact should not make any one of us in the Apple camp feel good about ourselves. The fact also remains that Apple still disillusioned a lot of people with the 2016 MBP. That is nothing new, even though I personally love FCPX, Apple disillusioned their FCP user base some years back with the big change from the FCP7 UI, and now a huge number of video editors use Adobe Premier Pro instead. It doesn't matter to me if Tim Cook is different from Steve Jobs. It's time he stop being himself and start being more like Jobs, taking more interest in what his engineers are doing and start kicking fanny to wow and impress us all. What they are doing now is nifty, but it is not innovative and stunning.
    Retina Macs under Cook. New display tech under cook. All the amazing iphone and ipad innovations under cook. Watch under cook. Airpods under cook. 

    I think Cook has an interest in what his engineers are doing. Please post links that show otherwise. 
  • Reply 38 of 49
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,113member

    scottkrk2 said:
    If they released a MBA with a retina screen they would sell a lot more ..... Oh, and a MBP with a full set of ports for professionals
    I'm a professional and i don't need ethernet, firewire, SD or other legacy ports. The new MBP is perfect for me as a software developer, so perhaps it's time to stop making broad generalizations and assuming your needs are everyone's needs. 
  • Reply 39 of 49
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,113member
    k2kw said:
    Hmm, I don't know why people think this is positive?  An increase of 2.4% for the year where there was "pent up demand" is a bit disappointing. Two of the reports had negative growth in Q4 where there were new machines introduced!

    I'm assuming the 13" rMBP and MBA are their most popular models but having had only 1 month of full on sales (2 months for the base 13" rMBP) of the new rMBP models, we'll have to see. 

    I think the followup quarter will be more telling.

    Although I do feel the PC segment as a whole is to blame for lack luster sales, the $300 bump in prices for a more premium machine didn't help the situation.
    2.4% is growth for the quarter.   For the year it was down -0,9%.    Looking at the quarter you and year both HP and DELL grew more.    I bet they didn't hold out upgrading their computers for a new keyboard.   It seems like just a few years ago Apple was gaining market share on the big PC Manufacturers.    (Maybe Cook is looking forward to the time when he can become a windows EOM.)

    DELL and HP are upgrading their computers each year with the newest Intel CPUs.    They aren't going to sell you 2 or 3 year old technology at the same price as incroduction. 

    Hopefully Apple will figure out that they need to update all their computers including the MacPro and MacMini.    They also need to figure out that these MBP are really just updated AIRs and they need to come out with machines with more CPU power and return the MagSafe and SD slot to the Pro.    As it is now Apple is telling Photographers to go else where.

    Having developed the TouchBar they need to get that on all their computers ASAP.    Its a nice feature but isn't a must have that carries a $300 premium.   Better drop that to $129.    ($199 got for a USBC Keyboard). Does Apple sell USB-C wired Keyboard???

    P.S.   I bet SIRI on Sierra didn't sell a single computer. 

    Ah, another armchair executive telling Apple and Cook what they "need" to do. Hilarious. 

    Serious photographers aren't dependent on the SD slot. None of my gear even uses SD. 
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 40 of 49
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,272member
    k2kw said:
    Hmm, I don't know why people think this is positive?  An increase of 2.4% for the year where there was "pent up demand" is a bit disappointing. Two of the reports had negative growth in Q4 where there were new machines introduced!

    I'm assuming the 13" rMBP and MBA are their most popular models but having had only 1 month of full on sales (2 months for the base 13" rMBP) of the new rMBP models, we'll have to see. 

    I think the followup quarter will be more telling.

    Although I do feel the PC segment as a whole is to blame for lack luster sales, the $300 bump in prices for a more premium machine didn't help the situation.
    2.4% is growth for the quarter.   For the year it was down -0,9%.    Looking at the quarter you and year both HP and DELL grew more.    I bet they didn't hold out upgrading their computers for a new keyboard.   It seems like just a few years ago Apple was gaining market share on the big PC Manufacturers.    (Maybe Cook is looking forward to the time when he can become a windows EOM.)

    DELL and HP are upgrading their computers each year with the newest Intel CPUs.    They aren't going to sell you 2 or 3 year old technology at the same price as incroduction. 

    Hopefully Apple will figure out that they need to update all their computers including the MacPro and MacMini.    They also need to figure out that these MBP are really just updated AIRs and they need to come out with machines with more CPU power and return the MagSafe and SD slot to the Pro.    As it is now Apple is telling Photographers to go else where.

    Having developed the TouchBar they need to get that on all their computers ASAP.    Its a nice feature but isn't a must have that carries a $300 premium.   Better drop that to $129.    ($199 got for a USBC Keyboard). Does Apple sell USB-C wired Keyboard???

    P.S.   I bet SIRI on Sierra didn't sell a single computer. 

    Ah, another armchair executive telling Apple and Cook what they "need" to do. Hilarious. 

    Serious photographers aren't dependent on the SD slot. None of my gear even uses SD. 
    Serious photographers use what is right for the job and their needs. Sometimes SD based cameras do the job perfectly well.

    www.jacquescornell.photography/blog/2014/10/switching-from-full-frame-to-micro-four-thirds-mirrorless-cameras
Sign In or Register to comment.