What history teaches about Apple's windows of opportunity for 2017

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  • Reply 41 of 130
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,266member
    DED QED.

    Thanks for the hardwork and the channelling of the truth in these days of fake technology punditry. 
    patchythepirateandrewj5790ai46watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 130
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,510member
    MacPro said:
    1983 said:
    This article made some good points, but still comes across to an extent as pro Apple propaganda.
    Just wow!  Stating the facts, absent the anti-Apple propaganda (and backing them up with numbers) is propaganda?
    Not really. He made it very clear that he is talking about how it comes across. There is a lot of spin on those facts. Its his style but I agree that's how it comes across.
  • Reply 43 of 130
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    I think most concerns (or the ones I read anyway) voiced about the Mac Mini, Pro, and other neglected areas aren't concern for the ongoing viability of the company, but rather concern that the company that made those great things that endeared them to a faithful community has now transformed, and abandoned that community.

    I don't much care about Apple's financial health (I cashed out my shares a few weeks ago), except as an enabler for them to continue to make things that I want.  They're doing pretty good on that front from the iOS perspective, but I haven't bought a new Mac for a while, and not because I don't have a desire for a new computer.  

    I'm not sure that this kind of ultra-defensive article, whether its based in fact or not, really moves the conversation on much.  It has the same tone-deafness as all too many DED articles, and an excuse to repost long and largely irrelevant histories of Apple and its competitors.  Concern about Apple's direction doesn't mean that the sky is falling in, or that Android/Windows is better, it can just be concern that something you like is becoming less likeable.
    edited January 2017 ewtheckman
  • Reply 44 of 130
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,244member
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards. :)

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.

    That doesn't mean that what MS is doing isn't of interest, or that Surface Revenue isn't important, just that Wintel desktops are just much less relevant than what is happening in mobile, controlled by the duopoly of iOS and Android OS.
    andrewj5790ai46RodoBobJonpeter pinto
  • Reply 45 of 130
    Another excellent article by Daniel, that blows the bullshit away, that many other tech writers spew, when they write about Apple. I love reading Daniel’s articles, because he does such a great job of illustrating how wrong those tech writers and pundits have been in the past, about Apple.
    Exactly why I slowly stopped reading The Verge, Forbes, and so on. This article is not about being a fanboy, but facts & figures; think what you want out of them. One thing I have to mention though... I would like that Apple be a bit more "Agile" when it comes to incremental updates of existing products. I must say I'm a bit tired of the huge fanfare (or wait 16 months for a simple CPU update) to simply update internals of an iPad or similar. On another note, I use and consum Apple products as a can really work with them, and not constantly have to deal with driver issues and so on. Again, nothing is perfect; but it's damn close. Cheers.
    andrewj5790
  • Reply 46 of 130
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards.

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.
    You might know the answer to this: Why is there that straw hanging that looks like it's missing wires on the AirPods? I'm assuming that it's a necessary piece because otherwise it's not very attractive being there. Do you know its function?
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 47 of 130
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Five years from now we won't be arguing Android vs. iOS like we do now. The OS on a device will be of less importance to users than the voice assistant. That's why you see so much emphasis on Google Assistant, Alexa, Viv, and Siri. 
    most people don't want to talk to their phone.

    the only reason there is so much emphasis on Google Assistant/Alexa is because Google/Amazon is graphing at straws. They know they can't compete with Apple regarding design, OS, and hardware. So instead they try to put all their eggs into the AI basket. 
    Most people wouldn't ever consider wearing glasses with cameras in them just three years ago. They wouldn't send an email instead of snailmail 20 years ago. Most people wouldn't ever think of sharing every intimate detail of their life with total strangers 10 years ago like they do on Facebook now. They wouldn't trust paying bills online instead of mailing a check 10 years ago. Most people wouldn't think of trusting their docs and pictures only to cloud storage with no local just 10 years ago. Would never consider an electric car over a gas-powered one 5 years ago. Could not see themselves trusting autonomous driving/safety features just 5 years ago. Would not chose a camera phone over a standalone camera for vacation pics 10 years ago. Most people would not consider watching their TV streamed over the internet instead of cable just 5 years ago. Most people may not be ready for some of the things I mentioned now. Heck, most people wouldn't even buy an Apple product.  But enough do. Times change and so do consumers.

    Voice assistants will be more important than the OS they're on in just a few years IMHO. 
    Nope. you are just smoking what Google/Amazon is selling.

    Most people are still not comfortable with wearing VR helmets in public on the street.

    How many situations can you talk to your phone? On the street? At a meeting? In the office? Sorry, talking loud to your phone is an uncomfortable thing for most people unless they are alone at home. That is why talking assistance work at home, but are crap in mobile.


    They may be now. You're assuming it will always be that way and that no tech will be created to mitigate the issue of others hearing what you say to your phone out in public. IF smartphones are even the preferred mobile device 10 years hence and IF others are bothered by someone talking to it. You should use that vision of the possible future you profess to have. 

    By the way, it's not all that rare to hear people talking to their phone out in public now. You yourself will probably hear others doing it several times today. Ever hear someone on a phone-call in a store or at work? 
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 48 of 130
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards.

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.
    You might know the answer to this: Why is there that straw hanging that looks like it's missing wires on the AirPods? I'm assuming that it's a necessary piece because otherwise it's not very attractive being there. Do you know its function?
    Airpods are not missing wires. Other headphones are just burdened with wires.

    Its like saying why are iPhones missing wires that rotary phones have?
    You didn't read the question apparently since you're not answering it.
  • Reply 49 of 130
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,786member
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards. :)

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.

    That doesn't mean that what MS is doing isn't of interest, or that Surface Revenue isn't important, just that Wintel desktops are just much less relevant than what is happening in mobile, controlled by the duopoly of iOS and Android OS.
    Well, if the the Surface Drafting Table or whatever it's called doesn't sell in significant numbers, I'm pretty sure that means it isn't important.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 130
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards. :)

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.

    That doesn't mean that what MS is doing isn't of interest, or that Surface Revenue isn't important, just that Wintel desktops are just much less relevant than what is happening in mobile, controlled by the duopoly of iOS and Android OS.
    Well, if the the Surface Drafting Table or whatever it's called doesn't sell in significant numbers, I'm pretty sure that means it isn't important.
    My large-format printers don't sell in great numbers, but the products they produce are considered pretty important to businesses both large and small.
    canukstorm
  • Reply 51 of 130
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,786member

    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards.

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.
    You might know the answer to this: Why is there that straw hanging that looks like it's missing wires on the AirPods? I'm assuming that it's a necessary piece because otherwise it's not very attractive being there. Do you know its function?
    I don't know what you mean by unattractive straw. Are you referring to the stems? If so, there's really nothing unattractive about it. It's very similar to the stem on the traditional wired EarPods but a bit thicker, as it's packed w/ the beam-forming microphone, charging contacts, and other hardware per the tear down.
    tmaynetmagepatchythepirateai46watto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 52 of 130
    wozwozwozwoz Posts: 263member
    1. The question is not about Apple 'surviving 2017'. It is about it making crazy decent products - not new colours on iPhones or announcing deals with ageing music industry 'nobodies'.  

    2. What you call concentrating on popular products (i.e. the iPhone), ... I call losing the plot, losing your mojo, losing your purpose, and forgetting who and what you are, and who your customers are. This starts with the disdain for the Mac itself, the disdain for the MacOS, the disdain for the very creative types and professionals that actually do stuff that Steve Jobs appealed to when he returned to Apple - when he returned to the core - the disdain for the Mac Pro, and the complete disdain for the desktop customer base by failing to even offer a single monitor, and the sell-out that is the Lucky Gadget shemozzle which is a real embarrassment. More and more dumbing down.

    3. As for Hypercard ... that is and was one of the coolest software projects Apple has ever done ... and it still lives on (as SuperCard) despite Apple's failure to develop it. I wish
    they resurrected it in an object-oriented form. 
    ewtheckman
  • Reply 53 of 130
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,786member
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards.

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.

    That doesn't mean that what MS is doing isn't of interest, or that Surface Revenue isn't important, just that Wintel desktops are just much less relevant than what is happening in mobile, controlled by the duopoly of iOS and Android OS.
    Well, if the the Surface Drafting Table or whatever it's called doesn't sell in significant numbers, I'm pretty sure that means it isn't important.
    My large-format printers don't sell in great numbers, but the products they produce are considered pretty important to businesses both large and small.
    Your large-format printers sell in *relatively* great numbers, otherwise they wouldn't be a product. I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this...A market doesn't have to be large, but it has to be viable. The company that makes OLED panel manufacturing lines doesn't sell more than 60 a year, but for them that is a successful market, because the success threshold is relative. But MS is a mass consumer company, they don't do niche industry printers, they do mass market consumer desktops. Thus if their latest consumer desktop doesn't sell, it's a failure. So you're trying to compare apples to oranges for some reason.
    edited January 2017 netmagewatto_cobrapscooter63
  • Reply 54 of 130
    wozwozwozwoz Posts: 263member


    Its like saying why are iPhones missing wires that rotary phones have?
    Well - wired phones don't radiate your head (which is why I use one), and wired headphones don't needlessly radiate your head either (which is also why I use them) .. and they give higher quality too, since you can have a decent DA converter do the conversion --- not something that fits into the size of a matchstick.
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 55 of 130
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member

    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards.

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.
    You might know the answer to this: Why is there that straw hanging that looks like it's missing wires on the AirPods? I'm assuming that it's a necessary piece because otherwise it's not very attractive being there. Do you know its function?
    I don't know what you mean by unattractive straw. Are you referring to the stems? If so, there's really nothing unattractive about it. It's very similar to the stem on the traditional wired EarPods but a bit thicker, as it's packed w/ the beam-forming microphone, charging contacts, and other hardware per the tear down.
    Yes that's what I was asking about. I've not seen anything similar on other wireless buds (ie Bragi Dash, Erato Apollos, a couple others) but assumed that Apple found it to be a necessary piece. I just didn't know why it was needed. Thanks. 
  • Reply 56 of 130
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Five years from now we won't be arguing Android vs. iOS like we do now. The OS on a device will be of less importance to users than the voice assistant. That's why you see so much emphasis on Google Assistant, Alexa, Viv, and Siri. 
    most people don't want to talk to their phone.

    the only reason there is so much emphasis on Google Assistant/Alexa is because Google/Amazon is graphing at straws. They know they can't compete with Apple regarding design, OS, and hardware. So instead they try to put all their eggs into the AI basket. 
    Most people wouldn't ever consider wearing glasses with cameras in them just three years ago. They wouldn't send an email instead of snailmail 20 years ago. Most people wouldn't ever think of sharing every intimate detail of their life with total strangers 10 years ago like they do on Facebook now. They wouldn't trust paying bills online instead of mailing a check 10 years ago. Most people wouldn't think of trusting their docs and pictures only to cloud storage with no local just 10 years ago. Would never consider an electric car over a gas-powered one 5 years ago. Could not see themselves trusting autonomous driving/safety features just 5 years ago. Would not chose a camera phone over a standalone camera for vacation pics 10 years ago. Most people would not consider watching their TV streamed over the internet instead of cable just 5 years ago. Most people may not be ready for some of the things I mentioned now. Heck, most people wouldn't even buy an Apple product.  But enough do. Times change and so do consumers.

    Voice assistants will be more important than the OS they're on in just a few years IMHO. 
    So in five years when this isn't true you'll happily eat some claim chowder?
    ai46watto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 130
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    nht said:
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    Five years from now we won't be arguing Android vs. iOS like we do now. The OS on a device will be of less importance to users than the voice assistant. That's why you see so much emphasis on Google Assistant, Alexa, Viv, and Siri. 
    most people don't want to talk to their phone.

    the only reason there is so much emphasis on Google Assistant/Alexa is because Google/Amazon is graphing at straws. They know they can't compete with Apple regarding design, OS, and hardware. So instead they try to put all their eggs into the AI basket. 
    Most people wouldn't ever consider wearing glasses with cameras in them just three years ago. They wouldn't send an email instead of snailmail 20 years ago. Most people wouldn't ever think of sharing every intimate detail of their life with total strangers 10 years ago like they do on Facebook now. They wouldn't trust paying bills online instead of mailing a check 10 years ago. Most people wouldn't think of trusting their docs and pictures only to cloud storage with no local just 10 years ago. Would never consider an electric car over a gas-powered one 5 years ago. Could not see themselves trusting autonomous driving/safety features just 5 years ago. Would not chose a camera phone over a standalone camera for vacation pics 10 years ago. Most people would not consider watching their TV streamed over the internet instead of cable just 5 years ago. Most people may not be ready for some of the things I mentioned now. Heck, most people wouldn't even buy an Apple product.  But enough do. Times change and so do consumers.

    Voice assistants will be more important than the OS they're on in just a few years IMHO. 
    So in five years when this isn't true you'll happily eat some claim chowder?
    Just as assuredly as you'll be one of the first in line to congratulate me on my insightful prediction if it does happen, right. :)

     Eh, 5-10 years would actually be my guess. But yeah, I've never avoided owning up to being wrong. it happens. I believe typing commands and pushing buttons to accomplish what you want will be a quaint memory for many of us in the relatively near future. 
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 58 of 130
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards.

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.

    That doesn't mean that what MS is doing isn't of interest, or that Surface Revenue isn't important, just that Wintel desktops are just much less relevant than what is happening in mobile, controlled by the duopoly of iOS and Android OS.
    Well, if the the Surface Drafting Table or whatever it's called doesn't sell in significant numbers, I'm pretty sure that means it isn't important.
    My large-format printers don't sell in great numbers, but the products they produce are considered pretty important to businesses both large and small.
    Important to an extremely small fraction of the population isn't important to the society.
    Sorry but Apple does not do niche products.
    Perhaps the new Apple doesn't, and maybe that's why some of the very longtime users and fans post their concerns. Apple products were the epitome of niche (but GREAT niche) prior to the iPod weren't they? Even the Apple TV could be considered niche, at least until this past year, couldn't it?
    edited January 2017 ewtheckman
  • Reply 59 of 130
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    gatorguy said:
    Well, if the the Surface Drafting Table or whatever it's called doesn't sell in significant numbers, I'm pretty sure that means it isn't important.
    My large-format printers don't sell in great numbers, but the products they produce are considered pretty important to businesses both large and small.
    Your large-format printers sell in *relatively* great numbers, otherwise they wouldn't be a product. I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this...A market doesn't have to be large, but it has to be viable. The company that makes OLED panel manufacturing lines doesn't sell more than 60 a year, but for them that is a successful market, because the success threshold is relative. But MS is a mass consumer company, they don't do niche industry printers, they do mass market consumer desktops. Thus if their latest consumer desktop doesn't sell, it's a failure. So you're trying to compare apples to oranges for some reason.
    The surface drafting table isn't mass market...it's niche like the Cintiq.

    The Surface Book and Surface Pro are mass market and Surface revenue was $926 million in Q1 2017 increasing 38% YOY.



    That's not too shabby.  It should be interesting to see how Q2 worked out.  They'll release their earnings on the 26th.
  • Reply 60 of 130
    I think DED's argument: Apple discontiues this or that product only because it doesn't sell, simplifies the whole picture too much!

    With the MacPro and Mac mini I see it more like the chicken and egg problem:
    Does Apple not update these computers because the do not sell or do they not sell because Apple doesn't updeate them?
    We will never know because Apple won't show us the numbers for the individual products.

    Until Snow Leopard Apple created macOS (then OS X) software that was faster with each iteration on the same hardware. Since then the bloat we knew from the Windows side also set in for the Mac.

    Furthermore Apple's demonstration of the commodization of the computer is the wrong sign. I don't know exactly my computer needs in two years from now. But when I buy now from Apple according my current needs I have to trash this computer and buy a new one if my needs change in this two years.

    On the one hand Apple stands as the lighthouse for green energy in data center usage and on the other hand they force customers to trash their computers because they cannot be updated and thus have many more years of useful life in them (creating a horrible carbon footprint; unfortunately these effects are never calculated).

    edited January 2017 ewtheckman
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