I'm at a loss as to how they would prevent a test taker from turning the touch bar back on or using other means of communication through various connection methods and messaging protocols. Are they watching the screens like a hawk?
According to the article update use of the new MacBook Pro itself is not being allowed, at least in California bar exams.
I'm surprised that California is considering this action. HOWEVER, I believe that NO laptops should be with the exam taker at all when taking the exam. The prospective lawyer is supposed to know the law. Especially in a death penalty trial.
Apple Promotes Cheating with failed MacBook refresh! /s
i used my TI-85 to cheat in college. Then again it was open book exams.
I hated open book test, it usually meant most kids failed since the Prof knew if you did not know the material no open book was going to help you. I had HP 15C calculator which did lots of advance functions that most calculators of the time could not do and the Prof did not know this and those few of us who had them did well in his class then he figured out and change the test to us symbols verse number which meant to you have to manually work through the problems since he provided no numbers.
I used a TI-58C until it died during my final year of college and got an HP-15C. That was in 1987. I still use that calculator (a little bit) today and it's still on the original batteries. I have no idea how this is possible and I'm an electrical engineer.
yep my 15C is from 1985, and on its second set of batteries and I still use it today, tried to show my kids how to use it and they wanted nothing to do with it. I love the calculator and it was worth every penny I spent on it. Just shows you how good HP was at engineering things.
Keyword is "was".
The 15C is a marvel of engineering. Used the stored program function for generating characters for some Role Playing Games. I haven't used it in a while, but found it on my desk a while back, and still working fine. I think I have replaced the batteries in it since 1986, but only the once, I think. A friend of my brother's I think still has his 48C from those days. They don't make 'em like they used to.
Edited to add: Numbers? In an exam? You'd never see that in any decent Maths course.
This is good news, and they deserve kudos not snark. The easy thing for them to do would be to require everyone to use a Windows laptop and allow no exceptions. Instead they not only support Macs but are willing to accommodate brand new models with new features that could be used to cheat. We should be publicly thanking them for supporting Macs. I'm certain there were plenty of people at ExamSoft arguing for a "no new Macs" policy; but instead a more pro-Mac policy was adopted.
Frankly, I find it almost unbelievable that lawyers-to-be are allowed to bring their own computers for the test. What other high-stakes tests allow that?
I'm surprised that California is considering this action. HOWEVER, I believe that NO laptops should be with the exam taker at all when taking the exam. The prospective lawyer is supposed to know the law. Especially in a death penalty trial.
You don't really understand what's going on. ExamSoft is the software used by my daughter and son-in-law in a CA law school (I asked them tonight). The reason computers are allowed is because the CA bar exam contains more than just multiple choice questions. The applicants were able to take the test using written answers but that's ridiculous when you have the ability to supply essays and answers electronically. ExamSoft would rather not support Macs and is only doing it because they've received enough flak from law schools. From ExamSoft's website:
ExamSoft locks down student devices in an offline testing application that runs dozens of security processes in the background, providing a fair testing environment for everyone.
In other words, they take total control of the user's computer, installs software on it (which the user can't refuse because it's the only way to take the test), and partitions the test from everything else on the computer. This originated on a Windows PC and working on a Mac meant they had to figure out how to hack a Mac so they could take it totally over. I'm surprised any law school cares about supporting Macs because Windows PC have historically been used in all law offices to run (crappy) Microsoft software so why would any law student even think about ever using a Mac at work. /s/s/s/s
Law schools (and testing facilities) overcharge students and force them to use their own computers when they are receiving enough money to supply testing computers that are already properly configured to only allow access to a facility server that captures student test results. After capturing the results, they can be manually moved to a secure system for uploading to wherever they need to go. It's not Apple's fault for designing a different computer, it's the law school's use of testing programs that needs to be redesigned.
This is good news, and they deserve kudos not snark. The easy thing for them to do would be to require everyone to use a Windows laptop and allow no exceptions. Instead they not only support Macs but are willing to accommodate brand new models with new features that could be used to cheat. We should be publicly thanking them for supporting Macs. I'm certain there were plenty of people at ExamSoft arguing for a "no new Macs" policy; but instead a more pro-Mac policy was adopted.
Frankly, I find it almost unbelievable that lawyers-to-be are allowed to bring their own computers for the test. What other high-stakes tests allow that?
I'm surprised that California is considering this action. HOWEVER, I believe that NO laptops should be with the exam taker at all when taking the exam. The prospective lawyer is supposed to know the law. Especially in a death penalty trial.
You don't really understand what's going on. ExamSoft is the software used by my daughter and son-in-law in a CA law school (I asked them tonight). The reason computers are allowed is because the CA bar exam contains more than just multiple choice questions. The applicants were able to take the test using written answers but that's ridiculous when you have the ability to supply essays and answers electronically. ExamSoft would rather not support Macs and is only doing it because they've received enough flak from law schools. From ExamSoft's website:
ExamSoft locks down student devices in an offline testing application that runs dozens of security processes in the background, providing a fair testing environment for everyone.
In other words, they take total control of the user's computer, installs software on it (which the user can't refuse because it's the only way to take the test), and partitions the test from everything else on the computer. This originated on a Windows PC and working on a Mac meant they had to figure out how to hack a Mac so they could take it totally over. I'm surprised any law school cares about supporting Macs because Windows PC have historically been used in all law offices to run (crappy) Microsoft software so why would any law student even think about ever using a Mac at work. /s/s/s/s
Law schools (and testing facilities) overcharge students and force them to use their own computers when they are receiving enough money to supply testing computers that are already properly configured to only allow access to a facility server that captures student test results. After capturing the results, they can be manually moved to a secure system for uploading to wherever they need to go. It's not Apple's fault for designing a different computer, it's the law school's use of testing programs that needs to be redesigned.
I'm aware of all that. Are you saying that you prefer that ExamSoft be Windows only?
Frankly, I think it's a very weird model. I probably would be easier/cheaper to just give people loaner laptops running a locked down OS, but whatever. I'm not going to give them grief for treating Mac and PC users pretty much the same.
This is good news, and they deserve kudos not snark. The easy thing for them to do would be to require everyone to use a Windows laptop and allow no exceptions. Instead they not only support Macs but are willing to accommodate brand new models with new features that could be used to cheat. We should be publicly thanking them for supporting Macs. I'm certain there were plenty of people at ExamSoft arguing for a "no new Macs" policy; but instead a more pro-Mac policy was adopted.
Frankly, I find it almost unbelievable that lawyers-to-be are allowed to bring their own computers for the test. What other high-stakes tests allow that?
What? You mean like how lawyers can bring their own computers into the courtroom during a trail, just like judges have them on their bench? Those damn cheaters! Or how about attorneys at corporate law firms - how they simply pull standard forms off the firms server system. Forms which include annotations on how to fill them out and outline key issues to look out for, and they then charge their clients hundreds of dollars an hour to use these standard forms. Damn cheaters!
The various state bars must be too cheap to provide everybody with a computer for the test. For FINRA, you empty your pockets and put all of your stuff into a locker, then enter an exam room. Carefully watched bathroom breaks.
surely easier to have "test station" computers on-site supplied by the campus/testing authority/whoever runs it. allowing people to use their own gear makes it infinitely easier to cheat without being caught (touch bar or no touch bar).
I thought nobody bought these though? So why the policy?
Seems like a "new scary" technology for these guys. You can cheat with any tech nowadays.
Oh this so vividly brings back the memory of being stopped from taking a new fangled calculator (a Sharp I recall) into an advanced physics exam. "Only slide rules are allowed" I was told, "real mathematicians and scientists will always use slide rules."
This is a slide rule for the folks that have never heard of one...
I'm surprised that California is considering this action. HOWEVER, I believe that NO laptops should be with the exam taker at all when taking the exam. The prospective lawyer is supposed to know the law. Especially in a death penalty trial.
No lawyer can possibly know all of the law for a given location. Nor can she memorize all of the precedent setting case law that might pertain to a certain case. When answering test questions, it's not unreasonable to allow the same type of research that a practicing lawyer would do, in order to get the best possible outcome for a client. And since at least part of the exam is to test a prospective lawyer's ability to find ways around the written law, or to prevent the other guy's lawyer from getting around it, it only makes sense to allow research in tests, to see whether or not they can present a good legal argument, whether it's for or against a particular proposition.
I find it kind of weird and strange that you would have to supple your own laptop to take a high end test like the Bar Exam. It's like they're looking to only pass those smart enough to cheat. So, maybe that's the criteria for being a lawyer: you have to know more about cheating than the law.
I find it kind of weird and strange that you would have to supple your own laptop to take a high end test like the Bar Exam. It's like they're looking to only pass those smart enough to cheat. So, maybe that's the criteria for being a lawyer: you have to know more about cheating than the law.
Actually you may be more correct than you know. The ability to use the legal process to your advantage weighs greatly on the outcome of your case.
I find it kind of weird and strange that you would have to supple your own laptop to take a high end test like the Bar Exam. It's like they're looking to only pass those smart enough to cheat. So, maybe that's the criteria for being a lawyer: you have to know more about cheating than the law.
Actually you may be more correct than you know. The ability to use the legal process to your advantage weighs greatly on the outcome of your case.
Come on, they are allow to use a laptop during the test and if someone is going to cheat there are hundreds of way to do that on a Mac without drawing much attention and they are worried about the touch bar.
My son told me this fall Apple watch were no longer allow during testing, they caught people texting each others on their watches to share answers. Now I did not think of that but the kids figured out quickly. It is amazing how educators have not realize that making rules only encourage kids to find a way around them and all they have is time to figure it out.
I don't have kids in school, but I remember very well the consequences for cheating when I was in high school and college. You not only failed the test, you got an "F" for the course. It was automatic, get caught, they didn't care what your GPA was, what your class average was - the consequences were immediate, harsh and final.
Get caught twice - and you could then look for another college.
Is this not the case anymore?
Am I missing something? So someone is going to write custom software to cheat on a touch bar? What about that huge screen attached to the rest of the computer? Wouldn't that be even easier? Why not just ban computers. Problem solved. I really don't see how the touch bar changes anything. If someone is rally going to try and cheat with the touch bar, why not cheat with the actual real screen?
Apple Promotes Cheating with failed MacBook refresh! /s
i used my TI-85 to cheat in college. Then again it was open book exams.
I hated open book test, it usually meant most kids failed since the Prof knew if you did not know the material no open book was going to help you. I had HP 15C calculator which did lots of advance functions that most calculators of the time could not do and the Prof did not know this and those few of us who had them did well in his class then he figured out and change the test to us symbols verse number which meant to you have to manually work through the problems since he provided no numbers.
I used a TI-58C until it died during my final year of college and got an HP-15C. That was in 1987. I still use that calculator (a little bit) today and it's still on the original batteries. I have no idea how this is possible and I'm an electrical engineer.
I have TI-30X from around 1991 that is still on it's original battery. lol
And allowing a MacBook Pro but not allowing the Touch Bar is moronic, but we have become a nation or morons so this is par for the course.
Apple Promotes Cheating with failed MacBook refresh! /s
i used my TI-85 to cheat in college. Then again it was open book exams.
I hated open book test, it usually meant most kids failed since the Prof knew if you did not know the material no open book was going to help you. I had HP 15C calculator which did lots of advance functions that most calculators of the time could not do and the Prof did not know this and those few of us who had them did well in his class then he figured out and change the test to us symbols verse number which meant to you have to manually work through the problems since he provided no numbers.
I used a TI-58C until it died during my final year of college and got an HP-15C. That was in 1987. I still use that calculator (a little bit) today and it's still on the original batteries. I have no idea how this is possible and I'm an electrical engineer.
I have TI-30X from around 1991 that is still on it's original battery. lol
And allowing a MacBook Pro but not allowing the Touch Bar is moronic, but we have become a nation or morons so this is par for the course.
Comments
Keyword is "was".
The 15C is a marvel of engineering. Used the stored program function for generating characters for some Role Playing Games. I haven't used it in a while, but found it on my desk a while back, and still working fine. I think I have replaced the batteries in it since 1986, but only the once, I think. A friend of my brother's I think still has his 48C from those days. They don't make 'em like they used to.
Edited to add: Numbers? In an exam? You'd never see that in any decent Maths course.
ExamSoft locks down student devices in an offline testing application that runs dozens of security processes in the background, providing a fair testing environment for everyone.
In other words, they take total control of the user's computer, installs software on it (which the user can't refuse because it's the only way to take the test), and partitions the test from everything else on the computer. This originated on a Windows PC and working on a Mac meant they had to figure out how to hack a Mac so they could take it totally over. I'm surprised any law school cares about supporting Macs because Windows PC have historically been used in all law offices to run (crappy) Microsoft software so why would any law student even think about ever using a Mac at work. /s/s/s/s
Law schools (and testing facilities) overcharge students and force them to use their own computers when they are receiving enough money to supply testing computers that are already properly configured to only allow access to a facility server that captures student test results. After capturing the results, they can be manually moved to a secure system for uploading to wherever they need to go. It's not Apple's fault for designing a different computer, it's the law school's use of testing programs that needs to be redesigned.
Frankly, I think it's a very weird model. I probably would be easier/cheaper to just give people loaner laptops running a locked down OS, but whatever. I'm not going to give them grief for treating Mac and PC users pretty much the same.
This is a slide rule for the folks that have never heard of one...
No lawyer can possibly know all of the law for a given location. Nor can she memorize all of the precedent setting case law that might pertain to a certain case. When answering test questions, it's not unreasonable to allow the same type of research that a practicing lawyer would do, in order to get the best possible outcome for a client. And since at least part of the exam is to test a prospective lawyer's ability to find ways around the written law, or to prevent the other guy's lawyer from getting around it, it only makes sense to allow research in tests, to see whether or not they can present a good legal argument, whether it's for or against a particular proposition.
And allowing a MacBook Pro but not allowing the Touch Bar is moronic, but we have become a nation or morons so this is par for the course.
And allowing a MacBook Pro but not allowing the Touch Bar is moronic, but we have become a nation or morons so this is par for the course.