People are just gonna have to get over that. USB-C is the future and there's no better way to force 3rd party companies to make USB-C products than to make a market for it having products that only support USB-C.
So how do you connect your iPhone if you want to charge it or back it up? A $30 dongle?
No dongle is necessary if you have the proper cable. The interfaces of each device are quite clear.
That will never, ever happen, so please stop. The MBP uses onboard components because they're smaller, faster and use less power -- key use cases in a portable. DIY upgrades are a complete outlier use case and unimportant. See iPad. Appliance computing in portables is here to stay.
New iPhones will simply include a USBc cable, that's how. Your $30 dongle rant is obsolete. Have you forgotten that USBc is an adopted standard and there are dongles on amazon that can be had for $5? No, you didn't bother... just easier to hate on Apple.
I agree that USB C is the future, but no one can deny that USB A is the present and immediate future. I was at the Apple Store over the weekend and found it rather telling that the only actual USB C devices they had were an external hard drive and a couple of dual USB A/C flash drives. Every other USB C product they had was either a dongle or a hub (with a USB A port.) Not including even a single USB A port in a laptop is inexcusable IMO. The least they could do would be to include a dongle for you after just got done forking over $2000+ for a laptop. All the 'hating' on Apple comes from people being justifiably frustrated at paying a premium price for a premium product that doesn't work out of the box with any of the peripherals they have. If there were a justifiable reason not to have a single USB A port people would bet a bit more forgiving, but there really isn't. (and yes, I realize that cheap dongles can be had, but the real cost is when you show up for a meeting and realize you don't have the dongle with and the data you need is on a USB A flash drive.
If going purely USBC were "inexcusable" as you claim then they wouldn't be selling. But they are selling, so it is.
There are justifiable reasons for a purely USBC machine and they've been discussed ad nauseum.
MplsP said: I agree that USB C is the future, but no one can deny that USB A is the present and immediate future. I was at the Apple Store over the weekend and found it rather telling that the only actual USB C devices they had were an external hard drive and a couple of dual USB A/C flash drives. Every other USB C product they had was either a dongle or a hub (with a USB A port.) Not including even a single USB A port in a laptop is inexcusable IMO. The least they could do would be to include a dongle for you after just got done forking over $2000+ for a laptop. All the 'hating' on Apple comes from people being justifiably frustrated at paying a premium price for a premium product that doesn't work out of the box with any of the peripherals they have. If there were a justifiable reason not to have a single USB A port people would bet a bit more forgiving, but there really isn't. (and yes, I realize that cheap dongles can be had, but the real cost is when you show up for a meeting and realize you don't have the dongle with and the data you need is on a USB A flash drive.
I think that people are more intelligent than that and they do some very basic research when purchasing a product especially one that sets them back by a few thousand $$$. I'll tell you what I do if I ever need to take my MBP to a client's for a presentation. I call them and ask what type of connections do their projectors have and I then act accordingly. Most of the time it's HDMI and I ask if they have cables available or if I need to bring one along.
As far a premium product doesn't work out of the box remark, I call that grasping at straws. You take the 2016 MBP out of the box, turn it on and go through your usual setup (iCloud etc.) It works just like all previous generations MBP's.
MplsP said: I agree that USB C is the future, but no one can deny that USB A is the present and immediate future. I was at the Apple Store over the weekend and found it rather telling that the only actual USB C devices they had were an external hard drive and a couple of dual USB A/C flash drives. Every other USB C product they had was either a dongle or a hub (with a USB A port.) Not including even a single USB A port in a laptop is inexcusable IMO. The least they could do would be to include a dongle for you after just got done forking over $2000+ for a laptop. All the 'hating' on Apple comes from people being justifiably frustrated at paying a premium price for a premium product that doesn't work out of the box with any of the peripherals they have. If there were a justifiable reason not to have a single USB A port people would bet a bit more forgiving, but there really isn't. (and yes, I realize that cheap dongles can be had, but the real cost is when you show up for a meeting and realize you don't have the dongle with and the data you need is on a USB A flash drive.
I think that people are more intelligent than that and they do some very basic research when purchasing a product especially one that sets them back by a few thousand $$$. I'll tell you what I do if I ever need to take my MBP to a client's for a presentation. I call them and ask what type of connections do their projectors have and I then act accordingly. Most of the time it's HDMI and I ask if they have cables available or if I need to bring one along.
As far a premium product doesn't work out of the box remark, I call that grasping at straws. You take the 2016 MBP out of the box, turn it on and go through your usual setup (iCloud etc.) It works just like all previous generations MBP's.
Agreed. Satisfying any and all use cases is not a requirement for "working out of the box". That's the beauty of a machine using completely standard ports -- it's flexible and can be adapted to your own use cases, which are not everyone's use cases. Simple concept but seemingly difficult to grasp.
I sure hope 2017 is the year Apple returns to regularly updating the entire mac lineup.
You may get a year where you'll see everything updated in that year, but so long as they are dependent on Intel you're not going to get anything "regular."
Always with the Intel hate.
Apple updates when it is prudent to do so. It can spec bump every year if it wanted to but it's not critical to do for every Mac product anymore. Especially since most of Intels improvement has been laptop focused.
Intel's new process-architecture-optimize will make the annual updates more regular vs the far more aggressive tick-tock where delays happened more often because the tick part is pretty hard to do. 14nm took a while to get right.
MplsP said: I agree that USB C is the future, but no one can deny that USB A is the present and immediate future. I was at the Apple Store over the weekend and found it rather telling that the only actual USB C devices they had were an external hard drive and a couple of dual USB A/C flash drives. Every other USB C product they had was either a dongle or a hub (with a USB A port.) Not including even a single USB A port in a laptop is inexcusable IMO. The least they could do would be to include a dongle for you after just got done forking over $2000+ for a laptop. All the 'hating' on Apple comes from people being justifiably frustrated at paying a premium price for a premium product that doesn't work out of the box with any of the peripherals they have. If there were a justifiable reason not to have a single USB A port people would bet a bit more forgiving, but there really isn't. (and yes, I realize that cheap dongles can be had, but the real cost is when you show up for a meeting and realize you don't have the dongle with and the data you need is on a USB A flash drive.
I think that people are more intelligent than that and they do some very basic research when purchasing a product especially one that sets them back by a few thousand $$$. I'll tell you what I do if I ever need to take my MBP to a client's for a presentation. I call them and ask what type of connections do their projectors have and I then act accordingly. Most of the time it's HDMI and I ask if they have cables available or if I need to bring one along.
As far a premium product doesn't work out of the box remark, I call that grasping at straws. You take the 2016 MBP out of the box, turn it on and go through your usual setup (iCloud etc.) It works just like all previous generations MBP's.
Agreed. Satisfying any and all use cases is not a requirement for "working out of the box". That's the beauty of a machine using completely standard ports -- it's flexible and can be adapted to your own use cases, which are not everyone's use cases. Simple concept but seemingly difficult to grasp.
It's actually not difficult to grasp at all, even for those complaining. They either a) complain about everything b) get trigger happy with their keyboards before thinking it out c) all of the above
People are just gonna have to get over that. USB-C is the future and there's no better way to force 3rd party companies to make USB-C products than to make a market for it having products that only support USB-C.
So how do you connect your iPhone if you want to charge it or back it up? A $30 dongle?
I'm always surprised that this is concern of users. 1) most of the time I'm using my MacBook it is not plugged into power - it is a portable machine after all. 2) even when I am plugged in, I don't think I've hooked my iPhone up to my laptop more than a handful of times a) the battery life for iPhone is more than adequate (especially 7 Plus) b) syncing is wireless. 3) if this really is a big deal to folks, wait a couple of generations until USB-c is ubiquitous, or buy a multipurpose dongle. They cost very little in the scheme of things.
The sooner the better, for me, as I'm skipping this first release of this brilliant new design with all its included benefits.
MBPs last so long it is difficult to convince myself to upgrade. I'm using the original 15" retina from 2012 and it is just like brand new. It will probably be years before I need to upgrade. The only reason I upgraded then was because my previous MBP was stuck on Lion, otherwise I'd probably still be using that one. My MBP is not my primary computer. I just use it when I travel.
Which is why Apple products have a great resale value. I can sell my old MBP for a great price and get something that has additional features I want and/or better performance, each of which can translate into better efficiency and therefore more money and/or more time for other tasks. At this point, I'm only holding off because it's been so long since the launch now and historically a price drop will occur after having including such a major and costly investment into the new HW used in the Late-2016 MBP.
Actually, that's a problem for me. I tend to keep my Apple hardware so long that it no longer has any resale value. By the time it actually becomes useless, whether due to failing components, or just not being able to run a current version of the OS or any useful software, you'll be lucky if the recyclers/resellers don't charge you to take it away.
Still, it does mean I get value for money out of the thing. My MacBook was 8 years old when I bought the new MBP, and had only really become unusable in the previous year or so - as I said mostly due to OS and software compatibility issues.
The sooner the better, for me, as I'm skipping this first release of this brilliant new design with all its included benefits.
MBPs last so long it is difficult to convince myself to upgrade. I'm using the original 15" retina from 2012 and it is just like brand new. It will probably be years before I need to upgrade. The only reason I upgraded then was because my previous MBP was stuck on Lion, otherwise I'd probably still be using that one. My MBP is not my primary computer. I just use it when I travel.
Which is why Apple products have a great resale value. I can sell my old MBP for a great price and get something that has additional features I want and/or better performance, each of which can translate into better efficiency and therefore more money and/or more time for other tasks. At this point, I'm only holding off because it's been so long since the launch now and historically a price drop will occur after having including such a major and costly investment into the new HW used in the Late-2016 MBP.
Actually, that's a problem for me. I tend to keep my Apple hardware so long that it no longer has any resale value. By the time it actually becomes useless, whether due to failing components, or just not being able to run a current version of the OS or any useful software, you'll be lucky if the recyclers/resellers don't charge you to take it away.
Still, it does mean I get value for money out of the thing. My MacBook was 8 years old when I bought the new MBP, and had only really become unusable in the previous year or so - as I said mostly due to OS and software compatibility issues.
I find it hard to believe your Apple equipment is unsellable. I just sold a 2009 27" iMac for $550 USD a week or so ago.
Maybe you don't take great care of your gear?
Regardless, which 2016 laptop will have more resale value in 8 years?
MacBook Pro with 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports
some other laptop with a couple USB-A, a single DisplayPort, HDMI & Ethernet and a proprietary power plug.
The only thing that we know will for certain is USB-C will be at the height of it's power in 8 years. Given all the alternate modes that make it a video or power cable, I imagine it will eat into just about every other type of dedicated-use connector. Except maybe Ethernet. With wireless making huge leaps in performance and reliability, ethernet will be less & less relavent outside special applications.
My money is on the MacBook holding its value best 8 years down the road.
Get over this man...this has as much of a chance of happening as Apple releasing a 17" MacBook Pro....which is 0%! I'm pretty sure most users don't upgrade their computers. This isn't 6+yrs ago where this was necessary. I'm more than sure Apple has the data to backup their engineering of a non-upgradable Mac, meaning they see through research that the majority of customers do not upgrade their Mac(s) so its not worth the extra engineering to try and make something upgradable and also how Apple wants to design their products.
I don't know why you keep bringing this up...its not going to happen and continuously asking in a forum isn't gonna make it happen either.
I sure hope 2017 is the year Apple returns to regularly updating the entire mac lineup.
You may get a year where you'll see everything updated in that year, but so long as they are dependent on Intel you're not going to get anything "regular."
If the only technology in a Mac that mattered was the Intel processor then there would be no Mac because you can get the same Intel processors from PC makers for less money.
Apple has added plenty of hardware innovation to the Mac over the years that has nothing to do with Intel, and there's plenty of room to do more.
Having said that, I would of course be happy for Apple to break its dependence on Intel.
The sooner the better, for me, as I'm skipping this first release of this brilliant new design with all its included benefits.
MBPs last so long it is difficult to convince myself to upgrade. I'm using the original 15" retina from 2012 and it is just like brand new. It will probably be years before I need to upgrade. The only reason I upgraded then was because my previous MBP was stuck on Lion, otherwise I'd probably still be using that one. My MBP is not my primary computer. I just use it when I travel.
Which is why Apple products have a great resale value. I can sell my old MBP for a great price and get something that has additional features I want and/or better performance, each of which can translate into better efficiency and therefore more money and/or more time for other tasks. At this point, I'm only holding off because it's been so long since the launch now and historically a price drop will occur after having including such a major and costly investment into the new HW used in the Late-2016 MBP.
Actually, that's a problem for me. I tend to keep my Apple hardware so long that it no longer has any resale value. By the time it actually becomes useless, whether due to failing components, or just not being able to run a current version of the OS or any useful software, you'll be lucky if the recyclers/resellers don't charge you to take it away.
Still, it does mean I get value for money out of the thing. My MacBook was 8 years old when I bought the new MBP, and had only really become unusable in the previous year or so - as I said mostly due to OS and software compatibility issues.
I find it hard to believe your Apple equipment is unsellable. I just sold a 2009 27" iMac for $550 USD a week or so ago.
Maybe you don't take great care of your gear?
Regardless, which 2016 laptop will have more resale value in 8 years?
MacBook Pro with 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports
some other laptop with a couple USB-A, a single DisplayPort, HDMI & Ethernet and a proprietary power plug.
The only thing that we know will for certain is USB-C will be at the height of it's power in 8 years. Given all the alternate modes that make it a video or power cable, I imagine it will eat into just about every other type of dedicated-use connector. Except maybe Ethernet. With wireless making huge leaps in performance and reliability, ethernet will be less & less relavent outside special applications.
My money is on the MacBook holding its value best 8 years down the road.
Anyone sold a 2009-era PC for $550 USD lately?
I just looked on Gazelle (I know there are other places that might offer better rates) and my MacBook, assuming perfect condition, is worth $20. That's an early 2008 MacBook, with a 2.4 GHz processor. (I don't have the exact specs of mine to hand, so I just went with best case scenario.) Mine would probably qualify as Good Condition (rather than perfect) which is worth $15.
I agree, for a similar vintage PC, I'd be unlikely to get even that, but it's really not worth the effort.
By comparison, I put in an iMac 2009 3.33 GHz Core2Duo, with 1TB HDD, 16GB RAM, and SuperDrive, and it came back with $336. So a bit of a difference there.
The sooner the better, for me, as I'm skipping this first release of this brilliant new design with all its included benefits.
MBPs last so long it is difficult to convince myself to upgrade. I'm using the original 15" retina from 2012 and it is just like brand new. It will probably be years before I need to upgrade. The only reason I upgraded then was because my previous MBP was stuck on Lion, otherwise I'd probably still be using that one. My MBP is not my primary computer. I just use it when I travel.
Which is why Apple products have a great resale value. I can sell my old MBP for a great price and get something that has additional features I want and/or better performance, each of which can translate into better efficiency and therefore more money and/or more time for other tasks. At this point, I'm only holding off because it's been so long since the launch now and historically a price drop will occur after having including such a major and costly investment into the new HW used in the Late-2016 MBP.
Actually, that's a problem for me. I tend to keep my Apple hardware so long that it no longer has any resale value. By the time it actually becomes useless, whether due to failing components, or just not being able to run a current version of the OS or any useful software, you'll be lucky if the recyclers/resellers don't charge you to take it away.
Still, it does mean I get value for money out of the thing. My MacBook was 8 years old when I bought the new MBP, and had only really become unusable in the previous year or so - as I said mostly due to OS and software compatibility issues.
I find it hard to believe your Apple equipment is unsellable. I just sold a 2009 27" iMac for $550 USD a week or so ago.
Maybe you don't take great care of your gear?
Regardless, which 2016 laptop will have more resale value in 8 years?
MacBook Pro with 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports
some other laptop with a couple USB-A, a single DisplayPort, HDMI & Ethernet and a proprietary power plug.
The only thing that we know will for certain is USB-C will be at the height of it's power in 8 years. Given all the alternate modes that make it a video or power cable, I imagine it will eat into just about every other type of dedicated-use connector. Except maybe Ethernet. With wireless making huge leaps in performance and reliability, ethernet will be less & less relavent outside special applications.
My money is on the MacBook holding its value best 8 years down the road.
Anyone sold a 2009-era PC for $550 USD lately?
I just looked on Gazelle (I know there are other places that might offer better rates) and my MacBook, assuming perfect condition, is worth $20. That's an early 2008 MacBook, with a 2.4 GHz processor. (I don't have the exact specs of mine to hand, so I just went with best case scenario.) Mine would probably qualify as Good Condition (rather than perfect) which is worth $15.
I agree, for a similar vintage PC, I'd be unlikely to get even that, but it's really not worth the effort.
By comparison, I put in an iMac 2009 3.33 GHz Core2Duo, with 1TB HDD, 16GB RAM, and SuperDrive, and it came back with $336. So a bit of a difference there.
I always just zero out my hard drive(s), factory restore the Mac and then put it on eBay. I always keep the original packaging so shipping is a breeze. To me, its a nice way of getting rid of it and you'll get a hell of a lot more for it then putting it on Gazelle who will just take your device and sell it on eBay anyways for a profit. I don't sell internationally and I won't sell it to anyone with shady feedback. I've never had any issues with people on eBay because of this.
I also do this for all of my iPhones and when I was under the 2yr Verizon contact, it more than paid for my new phone so essentially, I was getting the newest iPhone that was just announced for free on contract....with money to spare which usually went toward AppleCare+.
The sooner the better, for me, as I'm skipping this first release of this brilliant new design with all its included benefits.
How come? I thought you ordered one?
I did, and then ended up making a change to my order which pushed it back much further than I wanted to wait*. It got to a point where I'lll just wait for the Kaby lake release with a likely lower price point, and other advanced features.
* I don't fault Apple for putting me at the back of the queue when I changed my order. That's on me.
The sooner the better, for me, as I'm skipping this first release of this brilliant new design with all its included benefits.
How come? I thought you ordered one?
I did, and then ended up making a change to my order which pushed it back much further than I wanted to wait. It got to a point where I'lll just wait for the Kaby lake release with a likely lower price point, and other advanced features.
* Note: I don't fault Apple for putting me at the back of the queue when I changed my order. That's on me.>
I'll be interested in what changes besides CPU may come to the next version. I'm hoping it's not much because if it's significant I'll want to get the new one, and selling this one is gonna be a hassle because I bought all the BTO upgrades and not many buyers are gonna wanna pay what a machine like this costs!
The sooner the better, for me, as I'm skipping this first release of this brilliant new design with all its included benefits.
How come? I thought you ordered one?
I did, and then ended up making a change to my order which pushed it back much further than I wanted to wait. It got to a point where I'lll just wait for the Kaby lake release with a likely lower price point, and other advanced features.
* Note: I don't fault Apple for putting me at the back of the queue when I changed my order. That's on me.>
I'll be interested in what changes besides CPU may come to the next version. I'm hoping it's not much because if it's significant I'll want to get the new one, and selling this one is gonna be a hassle because I bought all the BTO upgrades and not many buyers are gonna wanna pay what a machine like this costs!
I wouldn't think it would be anything beyond a CPU upgrade and possibly a GPU upgrade (if one is available). Whether or not it will be worth upgrading from a 2016 model we'd have to see. I doubt Apple will make any major changes to the design. There's really no reason to.
IF they upgrade, it'll be Kaby Lake and possibly new graphics. That will result in slightly better battery life; that's it.
The only other upgrade I could imagine at this point is a sensor for True Tone display color adjustment to ambient light, same as on the 9.7" iPad Pro.
Kaby Lake has the same RAM ceiling as the current machines; more RAM isn't coming until early-to-mid 2018 at the earliest.
Comments
That will never, ever happen, so please stop. The MBP uses onboard components because they're smaller, faster and use less power -- key use cases in a portable. DIY upgrades are a complete outlier use case and unimportant. See iPad. Appliance computing in portables is here to stay.
If going purely USBC were "inexcusable" as you claim then they wouldn't be selling. But they are selling, so it is.
There are justifiable reasons for a purely USBC machine and they've been discussed ad nauseum.
As far a premium product doesn't work out of the box remark, I call that grasping at straws. You take the 2016 MBP out of the box, turn it on and go through your usual setup (iCloud etc.) It works just like all previous generations MBP's.
Apple updates when it is prudent to do so. It can spec bump every year if it wanted to but it's not critical to do for every Mac product anymore. Especially since most of Intels improvement has been laptop focused.
Intel's new process-architecture-optimize will make the annual updates more regular vs the far more aggressive tick-tock where delays happened more often because the tick part is pretty hard to do. 14nm took a while to get right.
They either
a) complain about everything
b) get trigger happy with their keyboards before thinking it out
c) all of the above
Actually, that's a problem for me. I tend to keep my Apple hardware so long that it no longer has any resale value. By the time it actually becomes useless, whether due to failing components, or just not being able to run a current version of the OS or any useful software, you'll be lucky if the recyclers/resellers don't charge you to take it away.
Still, it does mean I get value for money out of the thing. My MacBook was 8 years old when I bought the new MBP, and had only really become unusable in the previous year or so - as I said mostly due to OS and software compatibility issues.
Maybe you don't take great care of your gear?
Regardless, which 2016 laptop will have more resale value in 8 years?
- MacBook Pro with 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports
- some other laptop with a couple USB-A, a single DisplayPort, HDMI & Ethernet and a proprietary power plug.
The only thing that we know will for certain is USB-C will be at the height of it's power in 8 years. Given all the alternate modes that make it a video or power cable, I imagine it will eat into just about every other type of dedicated-use connector. Except maybe Ethernet. With wireless making huge leaps in performance and reliability, ethernet will be less & less relavent outside special applications.My money is on the MacBook holding its value best 8 years down the road.
Anyone sold a 2009-era PC for $550 USD lately?
I don't know why you keep bringing this up...its not going to happen and continuously asking in a forum isn't gonna make it happen either.
Apple has added plenty of hardware innovation to the Mac over the years that has nothing to do with Intel, and there's plenty of room to do more.
Having said that, I would of course be happy for Apple to break its dependence on Intel.
I just looked on Gazelle (I know there are other places that might offer better rates) and my MacBook, assuming perfect condition, is worth $20. That's an early 2008 MacBook, with a 2.4 GHz processor. (I don't have the exact specs of mine to hand, so I just went with best case scenario.) Mine would probably qualify as Good Condition (rather than perfect) which is worth $15.
I agree, for a similar vintage PC, I'd be unlikely to get even that, but it's really not worth the effort.
By comparison, I put in an iMac 2009 3.33 GHz Core2Duo, with 1TB HDD, 16GB RAM, and SuperDrive, and it came back with $336. So a bit of a difference there.
I also do this for all of my iPhones and when I was under the 2yr Verizon contact, it more than paid for my new phone so essentially, I was getting the newest iPhone that was just announced for free on contract....with money to spare which usually went toward AppleCare+.
* I don't fault Apple for putting me at the back of the queue when I changed my order. That's on me.
The only other upgrade I could imagine at this point is a sensor for True Tone display color adjustment to ambient light, same as on the 9.7" iPad Pro.
Kaby Lake has the same RAM ceiling as the current machines; more RAM isn't coming until early-to-mid 2018 at the earliest.