Editorial: The future of Steve Jobs' iPad vision for Post-PC computing

1356

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 113
    hentaiboy said:
    The vision for post PC computing seems to be smartphones if the graph is to be taken as gospel. 
    Reading the graph that way is just a good joke ;-)

    Were people using their computers as mobile phones? Smartphones are just the future of cellphones and that's it. They don't replace computers.
  • Reply 42 of 113
    First, let me congratulate AI for having the courage to discuss the 'IPad in the Post-PC era'.  That took guts!

    But, the article is flawed for two reasons:
    1)  It bases its conclusions and projections on revenue.   Steve Jobs' Apple was based on technological innovation that made people's lives better.   Revenue derived from that.  It didn't drive that.  And, in fact, tech companies that drive innovation based on revenue projections are the most likely to fall behind and fail.   I hope that Apple does not fall into that trap.   It would be a great loss for all...

    2)  They say:  "Apple appears to be doubling down on Steve Jobs' vision of iPad as a "Post-PC" computing device".
    In that statement they are pitting the tablet format against the laptop format.   In the past and even today, that is a valid stand to take.   Tablets have simply not had to power to compete with their larger, heavier siblings.  But, that distinction is ending.   With 64bit, multi-core processors tablets are approaching the power of the laptop -- certainly that of the lower end laptops such as the MacBook.   The little brother is nipping at the heals of his older, larger brother....

    But, much more importantly, the functional abilities of each are constrained by their form factor.   Take a typical business example:
    An accountant is sitting at his desk preparing reports and spreadsheets for a coming month-end report and presentation.  For that, his laptop is well suited.   But, in the afternoon he needs to go out onto the shop floor to take an inventory.   For that task, his tablet is best suited to his needs because trying to balance a laptop in one hand and type with the other just doesn't work well.

    Ok, so now consider the future:   The accountant gets to work, drops his tablet into its dock and uses its keyboard, mouse and large screen to prepare his reports and spreadsheets.   In the afternoon, he pulls the tablet out of its dock and takes it out onto the shop floor and uses it as a conventional tablet to take inventory.

    Some would derisively call that devise a "hybrid".   It is not.   It is a convertible fully capable of providing high quality functionality of either a laptop or tablet at will.   It is the future.   If Apple does not do it, Microsoft & Samsung will -- with Google soon to follow.  The question is not IF, it is WHEN?   
    In Apple ecosytem those are called "toaster-fridge".

    Corporations could easily do it. But they didn't go that way. They have gone the iPad way and they still put true computers on the desk of their accountants, not empty shells with keyboard, mouse and large screen. Laptop with detachable display was already a patent of Apple. Microsoft is not a hardware producer and it will never be. They've just produced demo units to show their self-claimed versatility of Windows. If they will conquer the enterprise world, they will do that with many flavors of Windows, not with Surface.
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 43 of 113
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,442member
    hentaiboy said:
    The vision for post PC computing seems to be smartphones if the graph is to be taken as gospel. 
    Reading the graph that way is just a good joke ;-)

    Were people using their computers as mobile phones? Smartphones are just the future of cellphones and that's it. They don't replace computers.
    Yeah, absolutely right. A good portion of those smartphone users never even feel the need to buy a "computer", and of course, not knowing that they already have a "computer" in their hands, don't care.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 44 of 113
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    WhyGee said:

    Very few people really *get* Apple

    I believe DED does 
    The problem is that a lot of people want Apple to be sort of personal to them. Perhaps once but now? The Behmoth/Juggernaut that is Apple today makes that impossible.
    My main criticism is that they have some  really great but very niche products that work day in/day out with no fuss that they just let wither and die. I'm sure many here can provide examples.
    They aren't sexy or even photogenic but they work and probably make their profit targets (a lot less than the iPhone etc) but try buying them either in store or online and they are there but only the dedicated reach their goal.
    I think Apple needs to setup a Core Systems Division. The wiFi routers etc could go there and get some focus and importantly some advertising exposure.
    Then we might see them not wither and die but get developed and updated and get that important better exposure. If people don't know about them, no one will buy them.
    Or apple needs to float them off into a company that can take them forward even keeping the Apple branding. I don't know what to do but thay have to do something.

    Right now my primary motivator for being an Apple customer is the Mac hardware lineup.    Sure I have an iPhone but I still believe it won d be harder to get buy without my Mac than my Iphone.     As you might imagine I'm not too happy at all about the lack of effort with respect to the Mac lineup.   I can only hope that they have something truly new up their sleeves but I've had that hope for a couple of years now.   Frankly the mood is chaining to serious disappointment with Apple, I really don't want to go to Linux on my next primary system.   

    The fact of the matter here is that laptop volume is high enough to justify timely refreshes.    I realize the desktop market is universally screwed but even here they could build machines with a little more thought put into them.   Maybe we will get lucky and see a ARM based Mac in the near future.   ARM hardware in a Mac would explain some other huge delays.

    As for DED and this article, I really don't understand how people can read this crap.   Overtime DED writes an article like this my respect for him as a human diminishes a little bit more.
  • Reply 45 of 113
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member

    copeland said:
    Unfortunately my use case moves out of Apple's focus more and more.

    I don't need a MacPro and I don't want a iMac because I don't want to replace the whole thing when either the PC or Screen is dying (the all in ones are not very green products in my mind).
    I don't need a laptop for private use (I don't need to check my Facebook page, twitter account ... on the couch). If I use a computer on a private basis a bigger screen (24'' and plus) is beneficial.
    I don't want commodities as computers, I can handle a replacement of memory, hard disks or ssds or even a processor.

    /end rant  :/
    I can understand some of this.   I do have a laptop but I'd really would love to see Apple deliver an economical desktop computer capable of driving 4K screens.    Economical means less that $500 for the box.   This should be a snap to produce and I'm not talking bottom of the barrel performance either.   hopefully Apple has an ARM based machine up their sleeves that will allow them to deliver such a machine.    If not ARM one of AMD's Ryzen chips.   Especially in the case of the Mini, one of Apples biggest problems is grossly over priced hardware, I do believe this impacts sales negatively.   This is surprising because they can sell laptops at reasonably competitive prices.   

    AS for RAM, I'm not bothered too much by soldered in RAM.   In the end I believe it is better for all around performance and reliability.    HOWEVER, Apple needs to sell these machines with installed RAM quantities that make sense in this day and age, with upgrades that are rationally priced.   

    One of the reasons I don't care about soldered in RAM is that it won't be too many ears where we will see processors chips supplied with RAM built into he SoC package.  It is the future guys!   Why?   Simply for performance.   This especially as manufactures hit the wall for process shrinks, the only way to drive performance gains is through higher speed I/O and RAM access.
  • Reply 46 of 113
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,213member
    IMHO a better anti-reflective coating on the 12.9" iPad Pro is more important than Wide Color and True Tone. Sadly, reflectivity of the current 12.9" display killed my interest in it--I really wanted to enjoy the larger display for full-page technical reading, but couldn't. Perhaps Apple can do even better than the current 9.7" Pro, too. With improved AR coatings, fingerprints usually stand out more, but maybe Apple can find a miracle for that and at least make fingerprints easier to remove.
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 47 of 113
    If Apple wants to sell a significantly larger number of iPads, it only needs to do two things to iOS: implement a file system and give mouse capabilities. (After all - it was Apple that said your hands belong on the keyboard when defending the MacBook Pro's touch bar. It's hypocritical to call the iPad Pro a "Super Computer" and not apply that same logic). 

    But Apple won't do that because they're more concerned with revenue from their laptops than they are in bringing a true solution that customers want. 

    So I bought a Surface and am loving it (you know - that whole "toaster/refrigerator hybrid Cook said doesn't work). And if Apple ever does make those two changes to iOS I'll be the first to come back. But as it stands now it's a real pain to even download stock video from the Internet to an iPad for a video project - something I do with ease on my Surface daily. 

    So much for the iPad Pro being a "super computer."
    GeorgeBMack2kw
  • Reply 48 of 113
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,442member
    cpsro said:
    IMHO a better anti-reflective coating on the 12.9" iPad Pro is even more important than Wide Color and True Tone. Sadly, reflectivity of the current 12.9" display killed my interest in it--I really wanted to enjoy the larger display for full-page technical reading, but couldn't. Perhaps Apple can do even better than the current 9.7" Pro, too. With improved AR coatings, fingerprints usually stand out more, but maybe Apple can find a miracle for that, too--at least making fingerprints easier to remove.
    https://www.wired.com/2016/04/ipad-pro-display/


    "Equally significant is a new type of anti-reflective coating, which reduces the light reflected from the screens by three times what most mobile devices do today. In fact, it’s the least-reflective mobile display on the market, which in practice means you’ll spend a lot less time staring at your own dumb face in the display, and more looking at the stuff you want to see. That’s helpful for an iPad Pro, but very appealing for its potential use in the next-generation iPhone, since we tend to use our phones in brighter ambient light—like, you know, the sun—than we do our often indoor-bound tablets."

    I'm thinking that you need to reevaluate your statement in light of the fact that the then newly released iPad Pro had the best anti-reflective coating available at the time. Of course, there's always room for improvement.
    pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 113
    wizard69 said:
    .   Maybe we will get lucky and see a ARM based Mac in the near future.   ARM hardware in a Mac would explain some other huge delays.


    Not so sure.  The Macs that could reasonably and earliest run ARM as their primary CPUs are the 12" Macbook, and *maybe* a flavor of the 13" pro.  But the delayed desktops?  ARM would lose its advantages for those.  You'd be sacrificing a massive amount of power to intel's high end chips, lose versatile compatibility with Windows, and wouldn't have much advantage from lower power usage since desktops are tethered to the electrical outlet...
  • Reply 50 of 113
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,396member
    Worth noting for the first 10 years of the graph revenue was bumping along at under 10% of what it is today.
    This graph makes it look like the Mac has diminished yet there has been slow and steady growth since the product line was reorganised. 
    watto_cobrachia
  • Reply 51 of 113
    hydrogen said:
    steveau said:
    Good analysis and the suggestions for improvements are all relevant, but you have missed the big improvement that is totally necessary if the iPad is to be truly post-PC: native handwriting recognition. <...>
    Handwriting ! relics of the past ! who still uses handwriting ?
    Eat up Martha.
    mattinozGeorgeBMacchia
  • Reply 52 of 113
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    If Apple wants to sell a significantly larger number of iPads, it only needs to do two things to iOS: implement a file system and give mouse capabilities. (After all - it was Apple that said your hands belong on the keyboard when defending the MacBook Pro's touch bar. It's hypocritical to call the iPad Pro a "Super Computer" and not apply that same logic). 

    But Apple won't do that because they're more concerned with revenue from their laptops than they are in bringing a true solution that customers want. 

    So I bought a Surface and am loving it (you know - that whole "toaster/refrigerator hybrid Cook said doesn't work). And if Apple ever does make those two changes to iOS I'll be the first to come back. But as it stands now it's a real pain to even download stock video from the Internet to an iPad for a video project - something I do with ease on my Surface daily. 

    So much for the iPad Pro being a "super computer."
    My MacBook Pro with touch bar beats Surface hands down.  It has longer battery life. Light. High resolution retina screen. Touch bar will provide many capability of a touch screen.  Apple has outsmarted Microsoft with the touch bar. 
    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 53 of 113
    steveau said:
    Good analysis and the suggestions for improvements are all relevant, but you have missed the big improvement that is totally necessary if the iPad is to be truly post-PC: native handwriting recognition. If you have a touch sensitive screen and a stylus, why do you have to mimic a PC and have an on screen keyboard, or look even more like a laptop and have an attached keyboard? Clearly, people who want to use a keyboard or voice dictation should be able to have that flexibility, but that freedom should also be extended to people who would prefer to write (and I suspect that with good enough software that would be most of us). Apple holds all the best patents on HWR (a legacy of the Newton), so they should either (A) develop the functionality into a future iOS release, (B) spin off a separate company (like Filemaker) to develop it as an app, or (C) sell off the patents. Options B and C make no sense to me, so here's hoping that they will finally realise that while a finger is great as a mouse replacement, the stylus is great as a pen replacement, and both should be supported. Native HWR will truly be the killer app for the iPad - and if the patents are strong enough, uncopyable.
    It has been already tried with the discontinued Newton at the 90s. That was a perfect hand-writing recognition, it worked well, in fact it was the only feature that made Newton a Newton but it couldn't prevent the demise of Newton.

    The point is, no one uses handwriting to input data. Handwriting is only useful for jotting notes, putting marks etc.. Electronic ink is enough for such cases. Drawing the letter "a" is slower than typing the letter "a". HWR can only be an alternate method of input for enthousiasts, and there are already third party iOS applications for them. A system-wide HWR is not needed.
    I use it on my Apple Watch....   But otherwise, good point.
  • Reply 54 of 113
    "What I remember telling you on the tablet was that handwriting was probably the slowest input method ever invented, and it was doomed to failure".
    (Steve Jobs)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 113
    First, let me congratulate AI for having the courage to discuss the 'IPad in the Post-PC era'.  That took guts!

    But, the article is flawed for two reasons:
    1)  It bases its conclusions and projections on revenue.   Steve Jobs' Apple was based on technological innovation that made people's lives better.   Revenue derived from that.  It didn't drive that.  And, in fact, tech companies that drive innovation based on revenue projections are the most likely to fall behind and fail.   I hope that Apple does not fall into that trap.   It would be a great loss for all...

    2)  They say:  "Apple appears to be doubling down on Steve Jobs' vision of iPad as a "Post-PC" computing device".
    In that statement they are pitting the tablet format against the laptop format.   In the past and even today, that is a valid stand to take.   Tablets have simply not had to power to compete with their larger, heavier siblings.  But, that distinction is ending.   With 64bit, multi-core processors tablets are approaching the power of the laptop -- certainly that of the lower end laptops such as the MacBook.   The little brother is nipping at the heals of his older, larger brother....

    But, much more importantly, the functional abilities of each are constrained by their form factor.   Take a typical business example:
    An accountant is sitting at his desk preparing reports and spreadsheets for a coming month-end report and presentation.  For that, his laptop is well suited.   But, in the afternoon he needs to go out onto the shop floor to take an inventory.   For that task, his tablet is best suited to his needs because trying to balance a laptop in one hand and type with the other just doesn't work well.

    Ok, so now consider the future:   The accountant gets to work, drops his tablet into its dock and uses its keyboard, mouse and large screen to prepare his reports and spreadsheets.   In the afternoon, he pulls the tablet out of its dock and takes it out onto the shop floor and uses it as a conventional tablet to take inventory.

    Some would derisively call that devise a "hybrid".   It is not.   It is a convertible fully capable of providing high quality functionality of either a laptop or tablet at will.   It is the future.   If Apple does not do it, Microsoft & Samsung will -- with Google soon to follow.  The question is not IF, it is WHEN?   
    In Apple ecosytem those are called "toaster-fridge".

    Corporations could easily do it. But they didn't go that way. They have gone the iPad way and they still put true computers on the desk of their accountants, not empty shells with keyboard, mouse and large screen. Laptop with detachable display was already a patent of Apple. Microsoft is not a hardware producer and it will never be. They've just produced demo units to show their self-claimed versatility of Windows. If they will conquer the enterprise world, they will do that with many flavors of Windows, not with Surface.
    I looked for some logic in that, but found nothing but a chuckle -- especially at:  "Corporations could easily do it. But they didn't go that way".  There's a good reason why they didn't go that way:   It doesn't exist.   Apple hasn't done it, yet.  
  • Reply 56 of 113
    dougddougd Posts: 292member
    I've tried iPads several times and just don't like them. Any real work I'll do on my Mac Pro. For the rest my iPhone 6 Plus is perfect, light and easy to hold, something iPads are not
  • Reply 57 of 113
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,912member
    smalm said:
    copeland said:
    Unfortunately my use case moves out of Apple's focus more and more.
    Your use case left Apple's focus years ago!
    Apple still has some Macs that are upgradeable to some degree so at least part of that focus remains, at least for now. It is to be seen if the new iMacs will offer some kind of upgrade path beyond the BTO.

    For me, your comment just goes to cement the idea that Apple might be better off putting 'computer' back in the name and letting that division operate freely. As a division it's more successful now than ever but is not operating anywhere near its full potential. 

    'Focus' can change at any moment and we can speculate that even today, and within Apple itself, there are teams pushing ideas that seem to fly in the face of Apple's current product offerings.

    Do you doubt that the 'stealth/fighter bomber' (with regards to the new MBP) rumour was actually based on something?

    Having to 'buy' a screen with your Mac is something people legitimately complain about. They also complain about losing a good computer when the screen dies etc. There is a market for headless Macs but Apple will only let you choose between an underpowered (but overpriced) Mini or send you in the opposite direction and get a dinosaur Mac Pro.

    According to Apple's latest numbers, most new Mac sales went to non-Mac users in the last quarter. Many of those 'new' users were actually buying machines from late 2015. A godsend by all accounts for Apple and almost certainly unexpected, but perhaps food for thought for Apple management.

    Are we to assume that Apple's seasonal best quarter lacked a massive amount of its regular users?

    Are they just perhaps holding out for new desktops as they knew full well that what was on offer was from the previous year? Something completely unheard of in my opinion.








    edited February 2017
  • Reply 58 of 113
    If Apple wants to sell a significantly larger number of iPads, it only needs to do two things to iOS: implement a file system and give mouse capabilities. (After all - it was Apple that said your hands belong on the keyboard when defending the MacBook Pro's touch bar. It's hypocritical to call the iPad Pro a "Super Computer" and not apply that same logic). 

    But Apple won't do that because they're more concerned with revenue from their laptops than they are in bringing a true solution that customers want. 

    So I bought a Surface and am loving it (you know - that whole "toaster/refrigerator hybrid Cook said doesn't work). And if W H E N  Apple ever does make those two changes to iOS I'll be the first to come back. But as it stands now it's a real pain to even download stock video from the Internet to an iPad for a video project - something I do with ease on my Surface daily. 

    So much for the iPad Pro being a "super computer."
    Fixed that for you...
  • Reply 59 of 113
    First, let me congratulate AI for having the courage to discuss the 'IPad in the Post-PC era'.  That took guts!

    But, the article is flawed for two reasons:
    1)  It bases its conclusions and projections on revenue.   Steve Jobs' Apple was based on technological innovation that made people's lives better.   Revenue derived from that.  It didn't drive that.  And, in fact, tech companies that drive innovation based on revenue projections are the most likely to fall behind and fail.   I hope that Apple does not fall into that trap.   It would be a great loss for all...

    2)  They say:  "Apple appears to be doubling down on Steve Jobs' vision of iPad as a "Post-PC" computing device".
    In that statement they are pitting the tablet format against the laptop format.   In the past and even today, that is a valid stand to take.   Tablets have simply not had to power to compete with their larger, heavier siblings.  But, that distinction is ending.   With 64bit, multi-core processors tablets are approaching the power of the laptop -- certainly that of the lower end laptops such as the MacBook.   The little brother is nipping at the heals of his older, larger brother....

    But, much more importantly, the functional abilities of each are constrained by their form factor.   Take a typical business example:
    An accountant is sitting at his desk preparing reports and spreadsheets for a coming month-end report and presentation.  For that, his laptop is well suited.   But, in the afternoon he needs to go out onto the shop floor to take an inventory.   For that task, his tablet is best suited to his needs because trying to balance a laptop in one hand and type with the other just doesn't work well.

    Ok, so now consider the future:   The accountant gets to work, drops his tablet into its dock and uses its keyboard, mouse and large screen to prepare his reports and spreadsheets.   In the afternoon, he pulls the tablet out of its dock and takes it out onto the shop floor and uses it as a conventional tablet to take inventory.

    Some would derisively call that devise a "hybrid".   It is not.   It is a convertible fully capable of providing high quality functionality of either a laptop or tablet at will.   It is the future.   If Apple does not do it, Microsoft & Samsung will -- with Google soon to follow.  The question is not IF, it is WHEN?   
    In Apple ecosytem those are called "toaster-fridge".

    Corporations could easily do it. But they didn't go that way. They have gone the iPad way and they still put true computers on the desk of their accountants, not empty shells with keyboard, mouse and large screen. Laptop with detachable display was already a patent of Apple. Microsoft is not a hardware producer and it will never be. They've just produced demo units to show their self-claimed versatility of Windows. If they will conquer the enterprise world, they will do that with many flavors of Windows, not with Surface.
    I looked for some logic in that, but found nothing but a chuckle -- especially at:  "Corporations could easily do it. But they didn't go that way".  There's a good reason why they didn't go that way:   It doesn't exist.   Apple hasn't done it, yet.  
    Of course it doesn't exist because iPad exists and it will never exist because again iPad exists.

    Toaster-fridge has appeared as the brilliant idea of Steve Ballmer as soon as Steve Jobs pronounced "Post-PC". Since then Steve Ballmer has been fired, iPad prevailed and "convertibles" business didn't hold. And to put an end to this convertibles saga and to undo the damage Steve Ballmer's epiphany has done to the PC industry, Microsoft released the good old PC in the form of a folding desktop: Surface Studio. There is nothing "convertible" in it, it's screen doesn't even swivel. Surface Studio marks the end of the "convertibles" urban legend.

    In the wireless era, any "dock" idea is obsolete because a dock is a wired connection. iPad is docked everywhere and to everything thanks to wi-fi/LTE and Blutooth. I don't need my iPad be "docked" to my computer because I already use my computer from within my iPad thanks to VNC over wi-fi. Thanks to the Continuity feature of iOS/macOS I continue any task on my iPad from where I left off on my computer. All these achievements make the "dock" idea obsolete.
    edited February 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 113
    tzeshan said:
    If Apple wants to sell a significantly larger number of iPads, it only needs to do two things to iOS: implement a file system and give mouse capabilities. (After all - it was Apple that said your hands belong on the keyboard when defending the MacBook Pro's touch bar. It's hypocritical to call the iPad Pro a "Super Computer" and not apply that same logic). 

    But Apple won't do that because they're more concerned with revenue from their laptops than they are in bringing a true solution that customers want. 

    So I bought a Surface and am loving it (you know - that whole "toaster/refrigerator hybrid Cook said doesn't work). And if Apple ever does make those two changes to iOS I'll be the first to come back. But as it stands now it's a real pain to even download stock video from the Internet to an iPad for a video project - something I do with ease on my Surface daily. 

    So much for the iPad Pro being a "super computer."
    My MacBook Pro with touch bar beats Surface hands down.  It has longer battery life. Light. High resolution retina screen. Touch bar will provide many capability of a touch screen.  Apple has outsmarted Microsoft with the touch bar. 
    I'm sure it does -- until you rip the screen off to use it as a tablet.
    Tatiner
Sign In or Register to comment.