Apple lobbies against 'right to repair' proposal in Nebraska

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  • Reply 61 of 78
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    paxman said:
    I like iFixIt, too. They go way beyond iPhones and computers. I listened to an interview with a founder or CEO on PBS and came away super impressed. He lamented the attempts by companies move towards non-repairability and specifically pointed to unnecessary glued in batteries. Another company I use for parts and how-to's is OWC, Mac Sales. (https://www.macsales.com). I have upgraded quite a few macs through them. 
    I use OWC (and NewEgg), too, but those are usually for larger, more standard components, but their service and quality are certainly worth recommending.
  • Reply 62 of 78
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    plankton said:
    Apple should lose this fight and lose it hard.
    Never mind the Early 2008 MacBook Pro, whose nVidia GPU is guaranteed to fail due to a manufacturing defect. Like mine did, and they refused to fix it.

    Seems iFixit still has some logic boards (for $300)... I’d do it, but THEY’RE guaranteed to fail, too.
    edited March 2017
  • Reply 63 of 78
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    This legislation is asinine. Apple is right to lobby against it.
    Why should companies be free to take away rights you have had as consumers since industrislization began?   By the way this isnt just about Apple, it impacts any industry that tries prevent tepairs by resyricting parts sales.  It is a terrible move on Apples part.  
    elijahgspacerays
  • Reply 64 of 78
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,659member
    elijahg said:
    dysamoria said:
    Fake parts from China. Fake logic boards, fake circuits with espionage backdoors, giant botnets built with home-repaired phones and computers...
    What you're describing is a RESULT of companies blockading the business of legit repair companies. There used to be tons of repair businesses decades ago.
    Apple does not blockade the business of legit repair companies. They have Authorized Service Centers everywhere in the world. The proposed legislation might make service centers mandatory for every city and town but apparently their concern is not repair availability. That could be achieved easily with a mandatory service network.
    Other than by favouring their own repair centres inside Apple Stores, and delaying sending components to second party repair centres. AI has reported that they've been reducing service (and upping prices) at Apple Authorised Resellers too. 

    I think the right to repair legalisation is a good thing. Apple's green credentials for long term use of their products is complete crap, due to the non-repairability but no one (Greenpeace) seems to care about that. Using superglue for batteries for example is completely unnecessary. Glueing iMac screens on just to shave off another 5% thickness is unnecessary. This will force Apple to allow third party repairs, quite possibly leading to a reduction in first and second party repair costs. 
    Right to repair already exists for people. Can anyone prevent you from DIY repairs? No. That proposed legislation strives to kill OEMs' "right to repair" their own products !..
    It doesn't if you want to keep your original Apple warranty. Any sign of opening the device will void your warranty immediately. It is a fine line, if someone made a DIY mistake when attempting a repair, Apple shouldn't have to fix that. But obviously it would create arguments, people claiming they didn't break X item when clearly they did.
  • Reply 65 of 78
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    elijahg said:
    Right to repair already exists for people. Can anyone prevent you from DIY repairs? No. That proposed legislation strives to kill OEMs' "right to repair" their own products !..
    It doesn't if you want to keep your original Apple warranty. Any sign of opening the device will void your warranty immediately. It is a fine line, if someone made a DIY mistake when attempting a repair, Apple shouldn't have to fix that. But obviously it would create arguments, people claiming they didn't break X item when clearly they did.
  • Reply 66 of 78
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,659member
    Soli said:
    elijahg said:
    Right to repair already exists for people. Can anyone prevent you from DIY repairs? No. That proposed legislation strives to kill OEMs' "right to repair" their own products !..
    It doesn't if you want to keep your original Apple warranty. Any sign of opening the device will void your warranty immediately. It is a fine line, if someone made a DIY mistake when attempting a repair, Apple shouldn't have to fix that. But obviously it would create arguments, people claiming they didn't break X item when clearly they did.
    That is good, but what about a third-party battery replacement? Or home button? Or or or...
  • Reply 67 of 78
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    elijahg said:
    Soli said:
    elijahg said:
    Right to repair already exists for people. Can anyone prevent you from DIY repairs? No. That proposed legislation strives to kill OEMs' "right to repair" their own products !..
    It doesn't if you want to keep your original Apple warranty. Any sign of opening the device will void your warranty immediately. It is a fine line, if someone made a DIY mistake when attempting a repair, Apple shouldn't have to fix that. But obviously it would create arguments, people claiming they didn't break X item when clearly they did.
    That is good, but what about a third-party battery replacement? Or home button? Or or or…
    Battery replacements have been around for a long time so I don't think that's an issue. Home Buttons are its own ball of wax since you can replace a Home Button, but if you want it to still work with Touch ID, and as an extension Apple Pay, you can't simply swap out the button without also swapping out the logic board, IIRC.

    Like everything, if you try to do a repair and mess things up, they're likely not going to cover you. This is how all companies work. That said, I've brought in devices that were jailbroken that they had no issue replacing because the issue was clearly HW-based, and I've had issues with 3rd-party RAM (before the Genius Bar so I had to mail it in) that they were more than happy remove, replace with a minimum amount RAM, and then ship back to me with a note saying that my RAM was bad. All free of charge.

    For all the bellyaching on this thread, Apple goes above and beyond what other vendors are willing to do.
    edited March 2017 pscooter63stompy
  • Reply 68 of 78
    kamiltonkamilton Posts: 281member
    Ultimately, I think Apple's position is primarily about privacy and security.  Sure, if Apple wants something done right, it does it itself.  Repairs need to be profitable, but it's obviously not a significant revenue stream.

    Allowing anyone to open your Apple device for a "repair" that can include replacement components, creates a significant security exposure.  Basically, the amount of nefarious tampering made possible is limited only by the human imagination.  I think this exposure will only increase as devices become more complex.  Therefore, the simplest way to maintain complete, end to end control over security is to maintain control over repairs.

    I don't like the idea of not being able to repair my own gear.  Thus far, I have never paid to have an Apple device repaired.  I buy parts and keep stuff running.  However, when it comes to making sure my data is secure, I'd trust Apple before myself or anyone else.
  • Reply 69 of 78
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    kamilton said:
    Ultimately, I think Apple's position is primarily about privacy and security.  Sure, if Apple wants something done right, it does it itself.  Repairs need to be profitable, but it's obviously not a significant revenue stream.

    Allowing anyone to open your Apple device for a "repair" that can include replacement components, creates a significant security exposure.  Basically, the amount of nefarious tampering made possible is limited only by the human imagination.  I think this exposure will only increase as devices become more complex.  Therefore, the simplest way to maintain complete, end to end control over security is to maintain control over repairs.

    I don't like the idea of not being able to repair my own gear.  Thus far, I have never paid to have an Apple device repaired.  I buy parts and keep stuff running.  However, when it comes to making sure my data is secure, I'd trust Apple before myself or anyone else.
    I once when to a 3rd-party shop to have the back glass replaced on an iPhone 4. Weeks or months later I noticed the camera was taking blurry pictures. I don't use my phone camera often which is why I didn't notice it right away. Turns out the person to installed the replacement part didn't remove the plastic protectant film from the backside of the glass before installing it, hence the hazy camera issues. Since I took it into Apple to see what was going on they now had to spend their money and time to fix an issue someone else caused. The part was also non-OEM and over time quickly showed that it was inferior quality. This was and is an Apple Certified service center. I've used them one other time for a Mac which had a coffee spilled over the keyboard and they charged be around $150 to look at and I was told they have a way to use alcohol to clean off a mother board (which they don't), and when they gave it back they didn't even have the screws in the correct holes (as I'm sure many of you will know that 3 of the screws on the back-bottom of many Mac notebooks are longer than the other 7 screws). I've never used them again nor have I offered up their services to anyone else.
  • Reply 70 of 78
    spaceraysspacerays Posts: 116member
    chasm said:
    You guys who are complaining about Apple being against repairs should try reading *the entire article* next time. QUOTE "Apple told Brasch it would not oppose LB67 if phones were excepted from the legislation."
    And why would Apple be against including phones in the legislation?



    That's why.

    Including iPhones can help them last longer. That will hurt new iPhone sales, some at Apple think.
    Forget solar power, or recyclable bodies. Every phone thats last longer saves a lot more of the environment from the toxins released.
    Not every phone or device is disposed in environmentally friendly ways. Those kind of programs arent present everywhere.

    Apple decision makers of now thus seems comparatively more worried about revenue, than the environment or the customer's savings. 
    It might hurt their billion dollar revenues a bit, but the goodwill generated in the customers, and the positive environment impact is more than worth it.
    elijahg
  • Reply 71 of 78
    spaceraysspacerays Posts: 116member
    To all those complaining...everyone knows what they get when they buy an Apple device. You are not forced to own a Mac or iOS device. If this bothers you so much buy something that is user repairable and upgradeable. 
    Dumb train of thought, frequently being used by apologists?

    This legislation applies to all, repeat ALL manufacturers.

    We are having a discussion regarding the impact regardless of manufacturer. Replace Apple with Samsung or anything, and it makes no difference.

    Get out of Apple mania. Read LB67. Increase reading comprehension.
    elijahg
  • Reply 72 of 78
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    elijahg said:
    dysamoria said:
    Fake parts from China. Fake logic boards, fake circuits with espionage backdoors, giant botnets built with home-repaired phones and computers...
    What you're describing is a RESULT of companies blockading the business of legit repair companies. There used to be tons of repair businesses decades ago.
    Apple does not blockade the business of legit repair companies. They have Authorized Service Centers everywhere in the world. The proposed legislation might make service centers mandatory for every city and town but apparently their concern is not repair availability. That could be achieved easily with a mandatory service network.
    Other than by favouring their own repair centres inside Apple Stores, and delaying sending components to second party repair centres. AI has reported that they've been reducing service (and upping prices) at Apple Authorised Resellers too. 

    I think the right to repair legalisation is a good thing. Apple's green credentials for long term use of their products is complete crap, due to the non-repairability but no one (Greenpeace) seems to care about that. Using superglue for batteries for example is completely unnecessary. Glueing iMac screens on just to shave off another 5% thickness is unnecessary. This will force Apple to allow third party repairs, quite possibly leading to a reduction in first and second party repair costs. 
    Right to repair already exists for people. Can anyone prevent you from DIY repairs? No. That proposed legislation strives to kill OEMs' "right to repair" their own products !..
    I know this thread is iPhone focused but John Deere was a huge reason for this legislation.   Deere in fact did remove the possibility of DIY repairs by effectively locking farmers out of their tractors. Thus preventing maintenace commonly done on the farm.  


    This isnt just about Apple guys !
    spacerayselijahg
  • Reply 73 of 78
    spaceraysspacerays Posts: 116member
    elijahg said:
    dysamoria said:
    Fake parts from China. Fake logic boards, fake circuits with espionage backdoors, giant botnets built with home-repaired phones and computers...
    What you're describing is a RESULT of companies blockading the business of legit repair companies. There used to be tons of repair businesses decades ago.
    Apple does not blockade the business of legit repair companies. They have Authorized Service Centers everywhere in the world. The proposed legislation might make service centers mandatory for every city and town but apparently their concern is not repair availability. That could be achieved easily with a mandatory service network.
    Other than by favouring their own repair centres inside Apple Stores, and delaying sending components to second party repair centres. AI has reported that they've been reducing service (and upping prices) at Apple Authorised Resellers too. 

    I think the right to repair legalisation is a good thing. Apple's green credentials for long term use of their products is complete crap, due to the non-repairability but no one (Greenpeace) seems to care about that. Using superglue for batteries for example is completely unnecessary. Glueing iMac screens on just to shave off another 5% thickness is unnecessary. This will force Apple to allow third party repairs, quite possibly leading to a reduction in first and second party repair costs. 
    Right to repair already exists for people. Can anyone prevent you from DIY repairs? No. That proposed legislation strives to kill OEMs' exclusive "right monopoly to repair, using good parts" their own products !..
    Fixed that for you.
    Look, the legislation wants manufacturers to supply spare parts, to USERS too.
    As a user, I know that certain repairs are charged way too much.
    And for NEBRASKA, with its scarcity of Apple or ANY manufacturers' service centers, it does make sense to have this option.
    It is a freaking option. One which will relieve a user of having to discard a product which can actually function longer, with less repair cost.

    Read LB67, please. 

    It is such a waste of time, commenters going mad out of ignorance and incomplete, twisted knowledge.
    elijahg
  • Reply 74 of 78
    spaceraysspacerays Posts: 116member
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    So if I understand this , Nebraska wants to make companies legally obliged to supply manuals and parts to unauthorised repairers? Basically let anyone repair the phone, authorised or not. 

    That's what it sounds like, but I might have read it incorrectly. 

    How  would you know they know what they're doing if they're not an authorised service?

    Yup, let anyone repair the phone, authorized or not. Think about this - why would anyone take a phone which is under warranty to unauthorized person? No, they won't. When it comes to out of warranty repair, why wouldn't a customer go to a third party if they can get the same job done at a lesser price? There are cases of OEMs refusing to repair the devices out of warranty and customer has no option but to throw the device in dustbin and get a new device. Why should that be allowed to happen - apple or not?
    Apple has to protect its brand. Like some others have said, if you get sold a new(er) iPhone, iPad or Mac that had a 3rd party part in it and then things were continuously going wrong with it and others were experiencing similar issues then who would the user blame? Apple! Apple's hardware has gone down in quality! When its really Bob's iPhone repair that caused these issues in the first place. 

    How would a new apple product have 3rd party part in it, when it is covered under warranty? It won't because apple takes care of service, The problem comes only for old devices which are out of warranty. You have only 2 alternatives right now.

    1. Go to authorized repair shop - Your device may be repaired at an exorbitant cost OR you are refused service OR cost of repair is just not worth it because it is that damn high where buying a new device makes more sense than repair.

    2. Go to unauthorized repair shop and put unauthorized components into it - making it a worser device. (Hope you would not argue with this)

    All I am suggesting is - Add a third option.

    3. Go to unauthorized repair shop, but put OEM components for repair and pay a reasonable price.

    Between new option 3 Vs existing option 2, which would put the OEM's reputation at risk? Why you want to ensure that worser option alone is available to end user, instead of a better option? Why???? Because OEMs would lose potential sale of a new device?? That is not right approach by any means.

    Glass breakage isn't covered under warranty or dropping something isn't covered under warranty. And even if it is covered under warranty for some people, an authorized repair place is 2+hrs away. Are you just saying oh well? Sucks for them?


    Cant see him saying that. You see him saying that? Like, where, between the lines?
  • Reply 75 of 78
    Spacerays,
    You approach the topic more like a lobbyist than an affected user. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but most folks are not equipped to adequately tackle such repairs. Apple and subcontractors have solutions and parts for after warranty repairs, for Cornhuskers. The legislation needs to have more effort into naming specific industries and products for customer after market repair laws. Nebraska legislators should put the time in to eliminate the segments of Post consumer repairs law, that cannot satisfy a sensible expectation of success and repair person competence, Apple repair by untrained individuals with after market parts a good example of overreach.

    my two cents.
    edited March 2017
  • Reply 76 of 78
    spaceraysspacerays Posts: 116member
    Commenters, we need to know what we are commenting on, better. 
    LB67 is attached, downloaded from this URL:

    LB is Legislative Bill.

    It took me an hour to read through all these comments, and try to reply to some. (There is a bug in the quote mechanism on the forum which also led to time waste.)
    Most of the comments are hovering around points which are irrelevant or wrong with regards to the bill in consideration itself. 
    Like being only about Apple. or about what someone is thinking about something.

    It only took around 10 minutes to comfortably read the 7 pages Legislative Bill 67 itself.
    Makes it clear what we are discussing, in less time.
    Most of these comments wouldnt have existed then.
    So please, read LB67.


  • Reply 77 of 78
    I read your document. My position has not changed. Why is automotive given an exception and can't,similar,argument,be made for other classifications as well, for example medical devices and the like? As I said, narrow the law, make an exception for hi tech, most Cornhuskers needs would be satisfied. Manuals, testing tools and other specialized documentation is also proprietary in a majority of cases, I would imagine similar is true or more so with phones, tablets, and laptops.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 78 of 78
    crossladcrosslad Posts: 526member
    Why does everyone think third party repair shops will make repairs cheaper? My daughter went to a local shop advertising screen repairs for her iPhone 6 and was told it would cost £129.00.  She took it into an Apple shop and had it repaired for £79.00.
    spacerays
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