Australian banks call alternatives to NFC 'unrealistic' in fight to avoid using Apple Pay

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 51
    dipdog3dipdog3 Posts: 89member
    I used ApplePay at every store in Australia, it was the best. Sucked coming back to the US & going back these awful CC chips.

    All Australian credit cards have NFC built in, and it is easier to use than ApplePay, they just have to tap the card.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 51
    subbiessubbies Posts: 71member
    Those banks are shit anyway. These idiots need to be slapped with a wet hand. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 51
    dipdog3 said:
    I used ApplePay at every store in Australia, it was the best. Sucked coming back to the US & going back these awful CC chips.

    All Australian credit cards have NFC built in, and it is easier to use than ApplePay, they just have to tap the card.


    Credit cards with NFC capability are a secrity nightmare.  There was a demonstration of how easy it was for someone to steal all your details without even touching you.
    This is one discussion
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/10/nfc_security/

    Apple pay allows you to leave that security risk at home or like me, get your bank to issue one without NFC capability.
    You could block the bad guys by using a wallet that is shielded.
    Whatever you do, make it hard for the thieves to rob you blind.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 51
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    dipdog3 said:
    I used ApplePay at every store in Australia, it was the best. Sucked coming back to the US & going back these awful CC chips.

    All Australian credit cards have NFC built in, and it is easier to use than ApplePay, they just have to tap the card.


    Credit cards with NFC capability are a secrity nightmare.  There was a demonstration of how easy it was for someone to steal all your details without even touching you.
    This is one discussion
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/10/nfc_security/

    Apple pay allows you to leave that security risk at home or like me, get your bank to issue one without NFC capability.
    You could block the bad guys by using a wallet that is shielded.
    Whatever you do, make it hard for the thieves to rob you blind.
    Is that actually NFC or run of the mill RFID that used to be on some cards. That data is induction, like a passive RFID pet chip, but NFC is very secure magnetic loop with authentication protocols compared to other wireless technologies.
    edited March 2017
  • Reply 25 of 51
    These benefits include "more opportunities for cashbacks and other promotions," as using these alternative wallets would avoid the Apple Pay transaction fee, and in theory would provide an incentive to "share some or all of that saving with the customer,"...
    Banks, sharing, with the customer?
    Laughable.
    Australia has been on its lowest central bank interest rate ever, for many many months and yet banks have only made minuscule reductions in credit card interest rates. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 51
    icoco3icoco3 Posts: 1,474member
    Soli said:
    dipdog3 said:
    I used ApplePay at every store in Australia, it was the best. Sucked coming back to the US & going back these awful CC chips.

    All Australian credit cards have NFC built in, and it is easier to use than ApplePay, they just have to tap the card.


    Credit cards with NFC capability are a secrity nightmare.  There was a demonstration of how easy it was for someone to steal all your details without even touching you.
    This is one discussion
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/10/nfc_security/

    Apple pay allows you to leave that security risk at home or like me, get your bank to issue one without NFC capability.
    You could block the bad guys by using a wallet that is shielded.
    Whatever you do, make it hard for the thieves to rob you blind.
    Is that actually NFC or run of the mill RFID that used to be on some cards. That data is induction, like pet chip, but NFC is very secure magnetic loop with authentication protocols compared to other wireless technologies.
    RFID seems more plausible.  NFC is a powered protocol IIRC.  If the reader is ready, you ould just "tap" your card and itwould read the RFID chip that gets its power from the reader.
  • Reply 27 of 51
    linkmanlinkman Posts: 1,036member
    dipdog3 said:
    I used ApplePay at every store in Australia, it was the best. Sucked coming back to the US & going back these awful CC chips.

    All Australian credit cards have NFC built in, and it is easier to use than ApplePay, they just have to tap the card.


    Easier to use by just tapping -- so with no PIN or the like it is somewhat insecure. It is extremely difficult (like nearly impossible) for a thief to use your AP credentials, even if they steal your iPhone.

    The Aussie banks are admitting AP is a great technology with a great implementation and they are asking that Apple be forced to give it up so they can reap the profits instead.
    stompywatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 51
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 759member
    volcan said:
    Who cares? Even if every bank in the world accepted Apple Pay unless my grocery store accepts it, it is worthless to me.
    Seems to me that your beef is with the grocery store...ask them to support Apple Pay or you will take your business to a store that does.  This is what I have done every chance I get. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 51
    anomeanome Posts: 1,533member
    Rayz2016 said:
    I'm not going to bother reading the article twice, but don't the arguments against Apple seem contradictory?
    They did indeed. 

    The Australian banks seem to think that ApplePay uses something other than NFC. 
    It does. It uses NFC in conjunction with a system of tokens to obscure client data from the vendor, which makes it harder for the vendor to track customer purchases. That may be part of what the banks are upset about, although in my experience, the financial institution can still track customer usage of their cards. (AmEx are always sending me stuff based on how I use Apple Pay.)

    polymnia said:
    TLDR the comments. 

    Is is this a little like complaining that your customers want to use American Express cards at your business that only take Visa?

    if you don't want to take AE cards, you are consciously making yourself difficult for those cardholders to work with. You cannot then ask a government agency to require people carry Visa because it's convenient for your business. 

    And yet, plenty of successful businesses do that here. Because AmEx charges slightly more in transaction fees, a lot of Australian businesses either don't accept it, or slap a 2%+ surcharge on transactions with AmEx or Diners'. To the point that when our Corporate Credit Cards changed to Diners', Citibank included a Master Card to cover transactions that the Diners' card wasn't accepted for.

    I've made my views on this whole thing clear. And their argument has to be somewhat weakened if they're relying on figures from ING who just signed on for Apple Pay. Apple does not have a monopoly on mobile payment solutions, and they are not acting like one, despite what many seem to claim. I agree with the banks that QR code based payment systems are not viable, especially in an environment like Australia where PayWave is everywhere already. I disagree with them that Apple's implementation of Apple Pay in any way impedes their business.

    stompy
  • Reply 30 of 51
    igorskyigorsky Posts: 759member
    I'm not even sure I understand what these banks' endgame is.  Apple will never give them access to NFC functionality, period.  What's the point of all this?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 51
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,930member
    volcan said:
    Who cares? Even if every bank in the world accepted Apple Pay unless my grocery store accepts it, it is worthless to me.
    People other than you probably care. Your situation isn't everyone's, so I find your suggestion that AI should shut up until you personally get a decent grocery store in your area quite irrational.
    stompyigorskywatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 51
    igorsky said:
    I'm not even sure I understand what these banks' endgame is.  Apple will never give them access to NFC functionality, period.  What's the point of all this?
    I'm assuming it's a negotiation tactic. If they can get the determination in their favour, they can play hardball for low fees and/or data access or other concessions in exchange for for not pursuing the outcome. 

    Possible initially there was no expectation of it going this far and that this was a negotiation play. Unfortunately for them, Apple loves to play hardball. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 51
    volcan said:
    Who cares? Even if every bank in the world accepted Apple Pay unless my grocery store accepts it, it is worthless to me.
    People other than you probably care. Your situation isn't everyone's, so I find your suggestion that AI should shut up until you personally get a decent grocery store in your area quite irrational.
    Australia has the highest level of tap n pay /Apple Pay terminals per person worldwide. The only place I've been recently that didn't take Apple Pay was a car mechanic. 

    That we have banks that don't want to offer a secure system to their customers is a horrible joke. 
    igorskystompywatto_cobraanome
  • Reply 34 of 51
    x0nex0ne Posts: 1member
    It's not all the Aussie banks, I live in Australia and I'm with the ANZ bank and I've had Apple Pay on my iphone and watch for about a year now, works everywhere and I love it!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 51
    sowardsoward Posts: 33member
    They do realize that as a developer you don't actually have direct access to the camera right? You have an API that allows you to get and set whatever apple has decided to let you access...


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 51
    ANZ Bank in Australia and New Zealand is using Apple Pay. So the longer the other banks muck around arguing, the more opportunity ANZ has in securing new young customers who want this feature for their day to day banking needs.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 51
    laytechlaytech Posts: 338member
    Quote... These benefits include "more opportunities for cashbacks and other promotions," as using these alternative wallets would avoid the Apple Pay transaction fee, and in theory would provide an incentive to "share some or all of that saving with the customer," as well as to fund development of new features. Are the banks dreaming! Do we really believer or trust they would share some or all of that saving to the customer. Give me a break. The more the banks fight this the more resentment they generate and the more it proves this is not about consumer at all, it is about retaining control, and increasing profits for shareholders not giving back to the customer. The whole thing stinks and reiterates my utter distaste for the high fees, low service provided by Australian banks. If this was such an issue, it would never have got out of America. Australian banks about time you did the right thing for your customer, Westpac, ConBank, National, Bendigo, demonstrate you want to help your customers - genuinely!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 51
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,399member
    volcan said:
    Who cares? Even if every bank in the world accepted Apple Pay unless my grocery store accepts it, it is worthless to me.
    Banks are the 1st step in the chain. The more banks sign up, more companies will follow.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 51
    DenisVolinDenisVolin Posts: 5unconfirmed, member
    Well, I can't really be objective on the matter since I switched out from iPhone 6 straight to the Note, yet... I don't see a big problem here. A world or let's say Aussies will survive without the Apple Pay. Yet, especially seeing Apple struggling around, I tend to assume that it is the Apple the one craving for the market. 
    Personally I won't switch now back to the Apple Pay for a simple reason: a lot of local retailers, especially small ones around my quarter, still have those basic card terminals without any OTA technologies. Yet, Samsung Pay allows me to pay anyway. With the magnet stripe imitation. 
  • Reply 40 of 51
    I'm glad I didn't wait for westpac. Switched to anz 9 months ago and haven't looked back. 

    Westpac sent me me an online survey asking why I closed my accounts. Nearly every answer was "Apple Pay"
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