Editorial: An ad-free, premium social network... from Apple

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 91
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    adamc said:

    Most of this is good analysis, but when Daniel talks about "Fake news", don't forget he's a hard core marxist.
    "Fake news" has an actual meaning. It refers specifically to invented stories published to troll or make money. You might get upset by media reports that you don't like or assume to be biased, but that's another thing entirely. The rest of your word salad is as completely nuts as the president's 4AM tweets.
    "Fake news" is itself a propaganda term created by the Left to suppress dissent. Thanks to the President's unwillingness to play along with that game, it's really blown up in the faces of CNN, BuzzFeed and the many mainstream outlets that have been pushing it.

    I suspect this thread will soon be locked, so with regard to Apple creating yet another social network, I just don't see it. They're bad at it. They can't make money at it and it's not in their DNA. 
    I normally find your argument very logical but this one really piqued my curiosity as to why you consider 'fake news' as a propaganda terms by the Left to suppress dissent so in other words you are saying fake news are factual news that one can counter check with other websites. Is there a sarcasm tag missing or you really meant whatever you are saying that you are a trump supporter.
    The term "fake news" was, in fact, created by the Left. That's indisputable. It is a redefinition and dumbing down of the term "propaganda" and has been repurposed by the Left to quash opposing viewpoints, regardless of the source being attacked.
    I didn't know Trump is considered to be from the left!
    Trump co-opted the term to use it as a cudgel against a fundamentally corrupt and dishonest press. He didn't invent it. 
    No.  The press do not make up stories.  They publish stories that are provided to them by parties that have purposes.  Some press like the "Inquirer?" could make up story.  But if they do they will be caught easily. So it is the CULTURE that like to make up stories.  
  • Reply 62 of 91
    kamiltonkamilton Posts: 281member
    propod said:
    It's so many fake news and lies in the media on a daily basis, and Trump is one of the worst. So news by objective journalism is much needed, who can you trust these dayes? I think only objective journalism should be supported by Appe news. 

    Apples DNA is against all that Trump stands for so FU if you are a Trump supporter.


    The truth doesn't require human belief in order to exist, but BS does.  If Apple undertakes anything in this area, it should be built and offered as a template for credible information.

    Sensationalism to sell copy or ads or help political candidates is nothing new.  The broader issue that seems at stake is this, please forgive me if I don't describe it well.  In a democracy, if a majority holds a certain belief, it doesn't have to be accurate to serve a purpose.  From a voting perspective, mass uniform belief = success or failure.  Further, a lot of folks will willingly believe BS if they are convinced it'll benefit them.  That's why we have an industry called Marketing.  Because people can be and are routinely manipulated for a purpose.  This should be enough to convince anyone that there is a good chance what they think is wrong.

    Truth is increasingly slippery.  It's as if in the digital age, we've done to truth what the quantum physicists did to matter.  We're taking truth apart to the point where it's a probability matrix, free to interpretation.  Rules of evidence collapse and reality becomes a matter of majority interpretation.  This is happening in real time and it's pretty damned scary.

    At the end of the day, the whole human adventure is an intelligence test.  If for instance, the GOP's collective belief about climate change happens to be wrong, and the North Atlantic current slows and international weather patterns change enough to disrupt agricultural production, then starvation will be a reality.  The "truth" will catch up with us. 


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  • Reply 63 of 91
    tzeshan said:
    adamc said:

    Most of this is good analysis, but when Daniel talks about "Fake news", don't forget he's a hard core marxist.
    "Fake news" has an actual meaning. It refers specifically to invented stories published to troll or make money. You might get upset by media reports that you don't like or assume to be biased, but that's another thing entirely. The rest of your word salad is as completely nuts as the president's 4AM tweets.
    "Fake news" is itself a propaganda term created by the Left to suppress dissent. Thanks to the President's unwillingness to play along with that game, it's really blown up in the faces of CNN, BuzzFeed and the many mainstream outlets that have been pushing it.

    I suspect this thread will soon be locked, so with regard to Apple creating yet another social network, I just don't see it. They're bad at it. They can't make money at it and it's not in their DNA. 
    I normally find your argument very logical but this one really piqued my curiosity as to why you consider 'fake news' as a propaganda terms by the Left to suppress dissent so in other words you are saying fake news are factual news that one can counter check with other websites. Is there a sarcasm tag missing or you really meant whatever you are saying that you are a trump supporter.
    The term "fake news" was, in fact, created by the Left. That's indisputable. It is a redefinition and dumbing down of the term "propaganda" and has been repurposed by the Left to quash opposing viewpoints, regardless of the source being attacked.
    I didn't know Trump is considered to be from the left!
    Trump co-opted the term to use it as a cudgel against a fundamentally corrupt and dishonest press. He didn't invent it. 
    No.  The press do not make up stories.  They publish stories that are provided to them by parties that have purposes.  Some press like the "Inquirer?" could make up story.  But if they do they will be caught easily. So it is the CULTURE that like to make up stories.  
    The press invents stories all the time. Like this Friday, when they claimed Trump refused to shake Merkel's hand, when in reality he simply refused to pose for a photo op. 
    tallest skilgtrSpamSandwich
  • Reply 64 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Stop trying to blame everything you dont like in life on imagined boogeymen.
    That’s how liberals operate. Spam’s pretty far therefrom.
    ...the right-wingers... ...FakeNews and Alternative Facts their belief system is founded on...
    Do you want to go, little man? Because we will fucking rumble so hard that you’ll physically tear up as you type, “I’m not going to reply to you anymore,” in a vain effort to salvage the nonexistent dignity of your worldview. Don’t type it again.
    FoxNews
    Fox isn’t right wing and it isn’t 2002 anymore. That canard will get you nowhere. Try harder.
    Originally Republicans had gone so far right that they called honest reporting and moderates all "Liberals".   Now, they have gone so far over the edge that they're saying Fox News is not a right wing propaganda site?   That's hilarious!   No, actually that level of delusion is kind of sad.   Sort of another "alternative fact".   But then, as I said:   their whole belief system is based on Alternative Facts....   SAD! --- because they're getting so defensive about it...  
    boredumbapple jockeystaigardpscooter63roundaboutnowronnsingularitydsdSpamSandwich
  • Reply 65 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    On Russian interference in the US election... 17 US Intel Services agreed that this happened
    1. That was always a lie.
    2. The same ones that said there were WMDs in Iraq, I assume.
    3. There’s zero evidence. Your own leaders admit it now. Get over it.
    Many of them have tried to signal that the beliefs the base has been led to adopt have no basis in reason or evidence.

    The latest official to throw cold water on the MSNBC-led circus is President Obama’s former acting CIA chief Michael Morell. What makes him particularly notable in this context is that Morell was one of Clinton’s most vocal CIA surrogates. In August, he not only endorsed Clinton in the pages of the New York Times but also became the first high official to explicitly accuse Trump of disloyalty, claiming, “In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.” But on Wednesday night, Morell appeared at an intelligence community forum to “cast doubt” on “allegations that members of the Trump campaign colluded with Russia.” “On the question of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians here, there is smoke, but there is no fire at all,” he said, adding, “There’s no little campfire, there’s no little candle, there’s no spark. And there’s a lot of people looking for it.”

    Obama’s former CIA chief also cast serious doubt on the credibility of the infamous, explosive “dossier” originally published by BuzzFeed, saying that its author, Christopher Steele, paid intermediaries to talk to the sources for it. The dossier, he said, “doesn’t take you anywhere, I don’t think.”

    Morell’s comments echo the categorical remarks by Obama’s top national security official, James Clapper, who told Meet the Press last week that during the time he was Obama’s DNI, he saw no evidence to support claims of a Trump/Russia conspiracy. “We had no evidence of such collusion,” Clapper stated unequivocally. Unlike Morell, who left his official CIA position in 2013 but remains very integrated into the intelligence community, Clapper was Obama’s DNI until just seven weeks ago, leaving on January 20.

    Perhaps most revealing of all are the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee — charged with investigating these matters — who recently told BuzzFeed how petrified they are of what the Democratic base will do if they do not find evidence of collusion, as they now suspect will likely be the case. “There’s a tangible frustration over what one official called ‘wildly inflated’ expectations surrounding the panel’s fledgling investigation,” BuzzFeed’s Ali Watkins wrote.

    Moreover, “several committee sources grudgingly say, it feels as though the investigation will be seen as a sham if the Senate doesn’t find a silver bullet connecting Trump and Russian intelligence operatives.” One member told Watkins: “I don’t think the conclusions are going to meet people’s expectations.”

    What makes all of this most significant is that officials like Clapper and Morell are trained disinformation agents; Clapper in particular has proven he will lie to advance his interests. Yet even with all the incentive to do so, they are refusing to claim there is evidence of such collusion; in fact, they are expressly urging people to stop thinking it exists. As even the law recognizes, statements that otherwise lack credibility become more believable when they are ones made “against interest.”
    In my experience the MSM bases its information on solid fact based reporting and rarely gets a story wrong.
    Your experience is wrong, then.

    "That was always a lie"

    Sorry, contrary to the rightwing FakeNews sites, it is very very true...  And it scares Rump to death.   That's why he invented his "Obama Wire Tapped my Phones" line.  He's trying to muddy the waters before he's evicted from his newest mansion to an even bigger house -- the BigHouse.  Unfortunately except for the brainwashed rightwingers, the whole world seems to be laughing at him.

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  • Reply 66 of 91
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Love the idea.  But the biggest obstacle to any social network is adoption.  I'm not using a network which my friends won't use.  

    This was a huge lesson from Google+ which ostensibly has better privacy options with the Circles concept and great photo management for its time.  Nobody moved from Facebook, except lots of photographers.

    And if Apple restricts its Social Network to access on only Apple devices, it's dead on arrival.  
  • Reply 67 of 91
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 687member
    markbyrn said:
    Oh yes, an ad-free walled garden where only left wing vetted pundits get to have their voice head; a wonderfully self-serving fantasy to be sure.   Meanwhile down to reality, AI is chockablock full of advertising and no ad-free user funded option.  With political editorials like this, it's no wonder.  
    What exactly would a left wing pundit be saying, as opposed to a right wing pundit? I'm not really sure where this is going...
  • Reply 68 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tzeshan said:
    adamc said:

    Most of this is good analysis, but when Daniel talks about "Fake news", don't forget he's a hard core marxist.
    "Fake news" has an actual meaning. It refers specifically to invented stories published to troll or make money. You might get upset by media reports that you don't like or assume to be biased, but that's another thing entirely. The rest of your word salad is as completely nuts as the president's 4AM tweets.
    "Fake news" is itself a propaganda term created by the Left to suppress dissent. Thanks to the President's unwillingness to play along with that game, it's really blown up in the faces of CNN, BuzzFeed and the many mainstream outlets that have been pushing it.

    I suspect this thread will soon be locked, so with regard to Apple creating yet another social network, I just don't see it. They're bad at it. They can't make money at it and it's not in their DNA. 
    I normally find your argument very logical but this one really piqued my curiosity as to why you consider 'fake news' as a propaganda terms by the Left to suppress dissent so in other words you are saying fake news are factual news that one can counter check with other websites. Is there a sarcasm tag missing or you really meant whatever you are saying that you are a trump supporter.
    The term "fake news" was, in fact, created by the Left. That's indisputable. It is a redefinition and dumbing down of the term "propaganda" and has been repurposed by the Left to quash opposing viewpoints, regardless of the source being attacked.
    I didn't know Trump is considered to be from the left!
    Trump co-opted the term to use it as a cudgel against a fundamentally corrupt and dishonest press. He didn't invent it. 
    No.  The press do not make up stories.  They publish stories that are provided to them by parties that have purposes.  Some press like the "Inquirer?" could make up story.  But if they do they will be caught easily. So it is the CULTURE that like to make up stories.  
    Not, really...  Not anymore....   Right Wing radio host Mark Levin made up the story about Obama tapping Rump's phone and then Breitbart picked it up and Rump repeated it as fact -- even while every intelligence and law agency has said that is total nonsense.  FakeNews.   More recently, Napolitano on FoxNews stated that British intelligence had tapped Rump's phone and now, not only is British intelligence saying that is FakeNews but FoxNews is even saying it was FakeNews!

    But, it's important to realize that FoxNews has been spinning their yarns for 20 years by using just enough actual facts that their spin cannot be called a TOTAL lie.   But, it's such a distortion of the truth that it qualifies as FakeNews.   But, I find it REALLY interesting that even they appear to be becoming horrified at the proliferation of FakeNews coming out of the Rump administration and right wing propaganda sites.

    Personally, I don't think Obama had to tap Rump's phone.   He already had camera in his microwave!  (KellyAnne Conway told us so!).


    staigardpscooter63roundaboutnowronndsd
  • Reply 69 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tzeshan said:
    adamc said:

    Most of this is good analysis, but when Daniel talks about "Fake news", don't forget he's a hard core marxist.
    "Fake news" has an actual meaning. It refers specifically to invented stories published to troll or make money. You might get upset by media reports that you don't like or assume to be biased, but that's another thing entirely. The rest of your word salad is as completely nuts as the president's 4AM tweets.
    "Fake news" is itself a propaganda term created by the Left to suppress dissent. Thanks to the President's unwillingness to play along with that game, it's really blown up in the faces of CNN, BuzzFeed and the many mainstream outlets that have been pushing it.

    I suspect this thread will soon be locked, so with regard to Apple creating yet another social network, I just don't see it. They're bad at it. They can't make money at it and it's not in their DNA. 
    I normally find your argument very logical but this one really piqued my curiosity as to why you consider 'fake news' as a propaganda terms by the Left to suppress dissent so in other words you are saying fake news are factual news that one can counter check with other websites. Is there a sarcasm tag missing or you really meant whatever you are saying that you are a trump supporter.
    The term "fake news" was, in fact, created by the Left. That's indisputable. It is a redefinition and dumbing down of the term "propaganda" and has been repurposed by the Left to quash opposing viewpoints, regardless of the source being attacked.
    I didn't know Trump is considered to be from the left!
    Trump co-opted the term to use it as a cudgel against a fundamentally corrupt and dishonest press. He didn't invent it. 
    No.  The press do not make up stories.  They publish stories that are provided to them by parties that have purposes.  Some press like the "Inquirer?" could make up story.  But if they do they will be caught easily. So it is the CULTURE that like to make up stories.  
    The press invents stories all the time. Like this Friday, when they claimed Trump refused to shake Merkel's hand, when in reality he simply refused to pose for a photo op. 
    Nice spin!   But did you watch the video?   If you had, you wouldn't say that.
    roundaboutnowronnfastasleepdsd
  • Reply 70 of 91
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 687member

    "Apple could uniquely address the issues of online harassment, fake news"

    Pahahaha you mean Apple should create the type of social networking site that users are currently trying to escape from? I don't trust Tim Cuck to be impartial with the censorship as far as I could throw him.
    Sick of sites censoring Conservative views, or anything which isn't Progressive/Communist/Socialist. The next big Social Networking platform will provide a place where freedom of speech is adhered to, not the opposite way round. 
    What exactly is the 'conservative' set of views that may be censored?
    Youtube almost actively promotes misogyny, Google regularly presents its own interests, as can be seen from the anticompetitive fines it has to pay. 
    Freedom of speech or freedom from integrity? I'm not even sure such a dichotomy exists...
  • Reply 71 of 91
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,523member
    propod said:
    It's so many fake news and lies in the media on a daily basis, and Trump is one of the worst. So news by objective journalism is much needed, who can you trust these dayes? I think only objective journalism should be supported by Appe news. 

    Apples DNA is against all that Trump stands for so FU if you are a Trump supporter.


    Without taking any political position, rather just wanting objective truth from our news IMHO The Guardian seems to be as good as it gets these days.  If Apple can add to the same sort of quality then I'm all for it.
  • Reply 72 of 91
    Every story or comment is threat to my understanding and knowledge base on any given topic. And that is how it should be. By being open to new or a more complete information ignorance continues to diminish. Under all conditions truth and accuracy is the goal. Fake news and the acquiescence in its existence and dispersal is antithetical to that pursuit. Apple news effort to contain/disrupt fake news and Apple corporate ethos portray their aspiration for truth and justice. But I am not sure that is translatable into social networking. Apple consumers run the gamut of political and cultural thinking, let Facebook deal with the flak or sites like this.
  • Reply 73 of 91
    Seem to be a few issues here
    1) can Apple try to improve the quality of our news (since they don't make money from clicks).

    They've got a News app, so they can make it prioritise news in some new way. Without any social app.

    2) how can Apple expand their Music offerings & photos

    They're already trying this in multiple ways with music. And it doesn't seem to work particularly well.
    Photos seems a missed opportunity.

    3) can Apple become an effective aggregator of small-scale content, or the long tail of content

    Apple seems to be about changing mainstream entertainment. They could have pushed the small players (Vodcasters) but never have.  YouTube has the best opportunity to do this - but anyone who can take someone's wider mainstream interests and identify niches provided by smaller players will do well. 

    4) Should Apple just encourage other providers to do all this specialisation while they offer a great platform for it?


    I've always thought Apple could easily create a profile on me that contained
    a) My favourite photos (and now "Memories" of an event shared with people at the event).
    b) my favourite music (with links to preview or purchase)
    c) links to friends I regularly communicate with once authorised.
    d) Find Friends
    e) Group chat. Group facetime

    The challenge is doing something different to Facebook. 

    Automatically adding albums from friends, that contain us, could be seamless in photos.
    Having a "friend's favourites" song album in iTunes would be interesting. 
    They would integrate into existing apps rather than creating something new.

    "Creating a shared event" is where I think they could make a difference. I create "Tiana's 8th Birthday", invite people, let them join, group texts, automatically share my location with all those who are joined on the day, amalgamate all our photos and videos, and finally remember the "event" in photos as create and make a Memory that everyone can see.  Not competing with Facebook ... or is it?
    edited March 2017
  • Reply 74 of 91
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    But I think it is hilarious that you guys are bemoaning the length of DED columns, when you both go on for what seems forever in defense of at times anti-liberal anti modern humane/civil/global realities. Respect is due for your thoroughness.
    You can’t win sometimes. It often seems there’s no happy medium between the fallacies of “You just keep rambling on” and “There’s not nearly enough information to prove your claim”.
    ...it’s objectively false, zero proof given...


    Gee. How about that.
    tzeshan said:
    No.  The press do not make up stories.  They publish stories that are provided to them by parties that have purposes.
    By parties... who make up the stories. So as the press is owned by those parties, the press makes up stories, got it.
    Originally Republicans had gone so far right that they called honest reporting and moderates all "Liberals".
    When was that?
    Now, they have gone so far over the edge
    I’m not a Republican.
    Fox News is not a right wing propaganda site?
    By definition it isn’t. It’s certainly propaganda (did you forget it’s a television channel?), but it’s not right-wing.
    That's hilarious!  No, actually that level of delusion is kind of sad.
    So prove it false. Don’t be a coward. Substantiate your claim.
    their whole belief system is based on Alternative Facts
    Last chance. Save yourself the embarrassment and just drop the topic entirely.
    Sorry, contrary to the rightwing FakeNews sites, it is very very true...
    You are mentally ill. This is not an insult. This is not a glib statement. It is a statement of fact. The phrase ‘mental illness’ in this context is its second definition: a disease of the “mind” or personality, evidenced by abnormal behavior, as in hysteria or schizophrenia. But to what end? Specifically, delusional disorder. This is a psychosis in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue.

    The first sentence of the previous paragraph was stated to describe your association with the concept of the psychosis known as ‘delusional disorder’, wherein you have taken something that is false (Russia stole the US election) and believe it to be true, despite every single piece of scientific evidence proving you wrong. You have been personally shown this evidence, presented from your own masters’ mouths and offices. You continue to ignore it. Therefore you are delusional, by the definition of the word ‘delusional’, and are thus mentally ill to the extent that it poses a serious threat to your everyday life. Fix it.
    That's why he invented his "Obama Wire Tapped my Phones" line.
    Proven fact. Try harder.
    ...before he’s evicted...
    What, did your masters tell you to say that, too?
    ...from his newest mansion to an even bigger house -- the BigHouse.
    You mean Hillary, right?
    the whole world seems to be laughing at him
    Citation needed.

    GeorgeBMac said:
    Nice spin! But did you watch the video? If you had, you wouldn't say that.
    Here’s a video of Trump shaking Merkel’s hand on the day in question. Start at 26:00. GET. HELP. NOW. The proof is even in the thumbnail. 



    “But but but but but but but but but but but the event in question happened later/earlier when he didn’t shake her hand!” Irrelevant. The theory was disproven by virtue of him actually shaking her hand. It happened. As it turns out, the “spin” that the press was being denied their photo op is the only credible statement to make.
    brakken said:
    What exactly is the 'conservative' set of views that may be censored?
    Take a guess.
    Youtube almost actively promotes misogyny
    Utter fucking nonsense, proven by even a cursory look at the channels/content that get removed there.

    edited March 2017 gtrSpamSandwich
  • Reply 75 of 91
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tzeshan said:
    adamc said:

    Most of this is good analysis, but when Daniel talks about "Fake news", don't forget he's a hard core marxist.
    "Fake news" has an actual meaning. It refers specifically to invented stories published to troll or make money. You might get upset by media reports that you don't like or assume to be biased, but that's another thing entirely. The rest of your word salad is as completely nuts as the president's 4AM tweets.
    "Fake news" is itself a propaganda term created by the Left to suppress dissent. Thanks to the President's unwillingness to play along with that game, it's really blown up in the faces of CNN, BuzzFeed and the many mainstream outlets that have been pushing it.

    I suspect this thread will soon be locked, so with regard to Apple creating yet another social network, I just don't see it. They're bad at it. They can't make money at it and it's not in their DNA. 
    I normally find your argument very logical but this one really piqued my curiosity as to why you consider 'fake news' as a propaganda terms by the Left to suppress dissent so in other words you are saying fake news are factual news that one can counter check with other websites. Is there a sarcasm tag missing or you really meant whatever you are saying that you are a trump supporter.
    The term "fake news" was, in fact, created by the Left. That's indisputable. It is a redefinition and dumbing down of the term "propaganda" and has been repurposed by the Left to quash opposing viewpoints, regardless of the source being attacked.
    I didn't know Trump is considered to be from the left!
    Trump co-opted the term to use it as a cudgel against a fundamentally corrupt and dishonest press. He didn't invent it. 
    No.  The press do not make up stories.  They publish stories that are provided to them by parties that have purposes.  Some press like the "Inquirer?" could make up story.  But if they do they will be caught easily. So it is the CULTURE that like to make up stories.  
    Not, really...  Not anymore....   Right Wing radio host Mark Levin made up the story about Obama tapping Rump's phone and then Breitbart picked it up and Rump repeated it as fact -- even while every intelligence and law agency has said that is total nonsense.  FakeNews.   More recently, Napolitano on FoxNews stated that British intelligence had tapped Rump's phone and now, not only is British intelligence saying that is FakeNews but FoxNews is even saying it was FakeNews!

    But, it's important to realize that FoxNews has been spinning their yarns for 20 years by using just enough actual facts that their spin cannot be called a TOTAL lie.   But, it's such a distortion of the truth that it qualifies as FakeNews.   But, I find it REALLY interesting that even they appear to be becoming horrified at the proliferation of FakeNews coming out of the Rump administration and right wing propaganda sites.

    Personally, I don't think Obama had to tap Rump's phone.   He already had camera in his microwave!  (KellyAnne Conway told us so!).


    This CULTURE has deteriorated further.  The ISIS is not destroying western culture.  The western culture is self-destroying.  Previously the press is protected by the "freedom of speech act".  But at higher level, integrity, shame were still accountable.  Now the shameless has been elevated to the highest level.  And the CULTURE can not do anything.  Because the party that has the power now is not willing to press for truths like millions illegals voted in the last presidential election, etc. The press was given the status of a king but is is actually a king without clothes. 
    tallest skil
  • Reply 76 of 91
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,074member
    On Russian interference in the US election... 17 US Intel Services agreed that this happened
    1. That was always a lie.
    2. The same ones that said there were WMDs in Iraq, I assume.
    3. There’s zero evidence. Your own leaders admit it now. Get over it.
    Many of them have tried to signal that the beliefs the base has been led to adopt have no basis in reason or evidence.

    The latest official to throw cold water on the MSNBC-led circus is President Obama’s former acting CIA chief Michael Morell. What makes him particularly notable in this context is that Morell was one of Clinton’s most vocal CIA surrogates. In August, he not only endorsed Clinton in the pages of the New York Times but also became the first high official to explicitly accuse Trump of disloyalty, claiming, “In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.” But on Wednesday night, Morell appeared at an intelligence community forum to “cast doubt” on “allegations that members of the Trump campaign colluded with Russia.” “On the question of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians here, there is smoke, but there is no fire at all,” he said, adding, “There’s no little campfire, there’s no little candle, there’s no spark. And there’s a lot of people looking for it.”

    Obama’s former CIA chief also cast serious doubt on the credibility of the infamous, explosive “dossier” originally published by BuzzFeed, saying that its author, Christopher Steele, paid intermediaries to talk to the sources for it. The dossier, he said, “doesn’t take you anywhere, I don’t think.”

    Morell’s comments echo the categorical remarks by Obama’s top national security official, James Clapper, who told Meet the Press last week that during the time he was Obama’s DNI, he saw no evidence to support claims of a Trump/Russia conspiracy. “We had no evidence of such collusion,” Clapper stated unequivocally. Unlike Morell, who left his official CIA position in 2013 but remains very integrated into the intelligence community, Clapper was Obama’s DNI until just seven weeks ago, leaving on January 20.

    Perhaps most revealing of all are the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee — charged with investigating these matters — who recently told BuzzFeed how petrified they are of what the Democratic base will do if they do not find evidence of collusion, as they now suspect will likely be the case. “There’s a tangible frustration over what one official called ‘wildly inflated’ expectations surrounding the panel’s fledgling investigation,” BuzzFeed’s Ali Watkins wrote.

    Moreover, “several committee sources grudgingly say, it feels as though the investigation will be seen as a sham if the Senate doesn’t find a silver bullet connecting Trump and Russian intelligence operatives.” One member told Watkins: “I don’t think the conclusions are going to meet people’s expectations.”

    What makes all of this most significant is that officials like Clapper and Morell are trained disinformation agents; Clapper in particular has proven he will lie to advance his interests. Yet even with all the incentive to do so, they are refusing to claim there is evidence of such collusion; in fact, they are expressly urging people to stop thinking it exists. As even the law recognizes, statements that otherwise lack credibility become more believable when they are ones made “against interest.”
    In my experience the MSM bases its information on solid fact based reporting and rarely gets a story wrong.
    Your experience is wrong, then.

    "That was always a lie"

    Sorry, contrary to the rightwing FakeNews sites, it is very very true...  And it scares Rump to death.   That's why he invented his "Obama Wire Tapped my Phones" line.  He's trying to muddy the waters before he's evicted from his newest mansion to an even bigger house -- the BigHouse.  Unfortunately except for the brainwashed rightwingers, the whole world seems to be laughing at him.

    here's some facts as opposed to the fake news propaganda started by the left.

    1.   The original attacks on judges began with Obama's attacks on the Supreme Court in his state of the union address after the Citizen's Free Speech decision.

    2.   Obama began attacking news by calling Fox Fake news.

    3.   Obama' CIA/NSA did hack German Chancellor Merkal.    Not a stretch to think that the CIA is out of control and hacking Trump. 

    4..    Hillary's Ambassador was overheard conspiring in the overthrow of the democratically elected president of Ukraine which is what precipitated the annexation of Crimea and the current civil war.   Unsurprising Ukraine's Finance minister became an American citizen who had served in Bill Clinton's state department (Natalie Jarekso).   

    5.    Our country is subject to hacking from China all the time.   Maybe the hacks were against the republicans who were smart enough to secure their Networks.

    6.    American jobs are not going to Russia.    This is about wall street being able to control of international finance with China.  And thus why Clinton received twice the money as Trump (most from Wall Street).    Trump won because workers in rust belt states wouldn't vote for the Clintons who started the original "screw the blue collar worker" with NAFTA.  Mass delusion seems to have embraced the Clintonites and Progressives since they blame just about anything else.    Democratic's embrace of Illegal Aliens is a also anti-American worker that has motivated many voters to support Trump.


    tallest skilSpamSandwich
  • Reply 77 of 91
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    k2kw said:
    On Russian interference in the US election... 17 US Intel Services agreed that this happened
    1. That was always a lie.
    2. The same ones that said there were WMDs in Iraq, I assume.
    3. There’s zero evidence. Your own leaders admit it now. Get over it.
    Many of them have tried to signal that the beliefs the base has been led to adopt have no basis in reason or evidence.

    The latest official to throw cold water on the MSNBC-led circus is President Obama’s former acting CIA chief Michael Morell. What makes him particularly notable in this context is that Morell was one of Clinton’s most vocal CIA surrogates. In August, he not only endorsed Clinton in the pages of the New York Times but also became the first high official to explicitly accuse Trump of disloyalty, claiming, “In the intelligence business, we would say that Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.” But on Wednesday night, Morell appeared at an intelligence community forum to “cast doubt” on “allegations that members of the Trump campaign colluded with Russia.” “On the question of the Trump campaign conspiring with the Russians here, there is smoke, but there is no fire at all,” he said, adding, “There’s no little campfire, there’s no little candle, there’s no spark. And there’s a lot of people looking for it.”

    Obama’s former CIA chief also cast serious doubt on the credibility of the infamous, explosive “dossier” originally published by BuzzFeed, saying that its author, Christopher Steele, paid intermediaries to talk to the sources for it. The dossier, he said, “doesn’t take you anywhere, I don’t think.”

    Morell’s comments echo the categorical remarks by Obama’s top national security official, James Clapper, who told Meet the Press last week that during the time he was Obama’s DNI, he saw no evidence to support claims of a Trump/Russia conspiracy. “We had no evidence of such collusion,” Clapper stated unequivocally. Unlike Morell, who left his official CIA position in 2013 but remains very integrated into the intelligence community, Clapper was Obama’s DNI until just seven weeks ago, leaving on January 20.

    Perhaps most revealing of all are the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee — charged with investigating these matters — who recently told BuzzFeed how petrified they are of what the Democratic base will do if they do not find evidence of collusion, as they now suspect will likely be the case. “There’s a tangible frustration over what one official called ‘wildly inflated’ expectations surrounding the panel’s fledgling investigation,” BuzzFeed’s Ali Watkins wrote.

    Moreover, “several committee sources grudgingly say, it feels as though the investigation will be seen as a sham if the Senate doesn’t find a silver bullet connecting Trump and Russian intelligence operatives.” One member told Watkins: “I don’t think the conclusions are going to meet people’s expectations.”

    What makes all of this most significant is that officials like Clapper and Morell are trained disinformation agents; Clapper in particular has proven he will lie to advance his interests. Yet even with all the incentive to do so, they are refusing to claim there is evidence of such collusion; in fact, they are expressly urging people to stop thinking it exists. As even the law recognizes, statements that otherwise lack credibility become more believable when they are ones made “against interest.”
    In my experience the MSM bases its information on solid fact based reporting and rarely gets a story wrong.
    Your experience is wrong, then.

    "That was always a lie"

    Sorry, contrary to the rightwing FakeNews sites, it is very very true...  And it scares Rump to death.   That's why he invented his "Obama Wire Tapped my Phones" line.  He's trying to muddy the waters before he's evicted from his newest mansion to an even bigger house -- the BigHouse.  Unfortunately except for the brainwashed rightwingers, the whole world seems to be laughing at him.

    here's some facts as opposed to the fake news propaganda started by the left.

    1.   The original attacks on judges began with Obama's attacks on the Supreme Court in his state of the union address after the Citizen's Free Speech decision.

    2.   Obama began attacking news by calling Fox Fake news.

    3.   Obama' CIA/NSA did hack German Chancellor Merkal.    Not a stretch to think that the CIA is out of control and hacking Trump. 

    4..    Hillary's Ambassador was overheard conspiring in the overthrow of the democratically elected president of Ukraine which is what precipitated the annexation of Crimea and the current civil war.   Unsurprising Ukraine's Finance minister became an American citizen who had served in Bill Clinton's state department (Natalie Jarekso).   

    5.    Our country is subject to hacking from China all the time.   Maybe the hacks were against the republicans who were smart enough to secure their Networks.

    6.    American jobs are not going to Russia.    This is about wall street being able to control of international finance with China.  And thus why Clinton received twice the money as Trump (most from Wall Street).    Trump won because workers in rust belt states wouldn't vote for the Clintons who started the original "screw the blue collar worker" with NAFTA.  Mass delusion seems to have embraced the Clintonites and Progressives since they blame just about anything else.    Democratic's embrace of Illegal Aliens is a also anti-American worker that has motivated many voters to support Trump.


    When you say "Obama' CIA/NSA", this is a distortion from facts. 
    ronn
  • Reply 78 of 91
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 1,589member
    wigby said:
    I'd be OK with an Apple social net IF it wasn't censored by Apples liberal Values.

    If they can stay neutral, then it would be good.

    If its going to be some communist cult thing where anything they dont agree with is "fake news" etc. or censored, then it would be a disaster.
    Censoring has nothing to do with the platform provider. You are censoring or creating your own fake news based on your friends and news sources you choose to follow. That's how social networks work right now.
    Either a censored platform or a "Majority rules" system that crates a reward for mob mentality is no better. Both would be catastrophic.

    Your description doesn't match the article also.

    If all is the same, then no need for Apple to create their own.

    Choosing who you want to follow is one thing. 

    Censoring or shaming based on differing values is another.
  • Reply 79 of 91
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 1,589member


    Most of this is good analysis, but when Daniel talks about "Fake news", don't forget he's a hard core marxist.  The lies put out by "correct the record" and the Hillary campaign (eg: "Russia hacked our election!!!11!one" and that kind of BS) are considered "news" by his kind.

    "Fake news" is when the truth debunks the "Fact check" and other propaganda sites.

    And you know "Russia hacked our election" is a lie because...?  
    Because it's simply not a true fact. The DNC had its emails hacked -- that itself does not mean, and cannot be equated to, the election being hacked. Hacking the election implies the polling booths were manipulated, when they were not. The DNC hack exposed some dirty truths -- that the DNC was cheating and violating its own rules, and that a CNN staffer was involved. They all resigned, rightfully so. But none of that means Clinton would have or should have won had the truth not come out. Only one time since WW2 has a party kept the POTUS office for three terms, and that was Bush following Reagan. It's a fluke.
    How dare you speak fact and logic on an Internet forum! It must be against the rules somewhere...
    tallest skilSpamSandwich
  • Reply 80 of 91
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,020member

    Most of this is good analysis, but when Daniel talks about "Fake news", don't forget he's a hard core marxist.  The lies put out by "correct the record" and the Hillary campaign (eg: "Russia hacked our election!!!11!one" and that kind of BS) are considered "news" by his kind.

    "Fake news" is when the truth debunks the "Fact check" and other propaganda sites.

    It is positively orwellian that the purveyors of fake news have come out so strongly against "fake news" and of course link it with "harassment and radicalized hate speech"--- two things that also primarily come from these marxists--- who can forget the violent leftist thugs that rioted when a gay man tried to speak at Berkeley. 

    The level of orwellianness is just astounding.

    Having taken over the "mainstream" media, and demonized Fox news for the past two decades for the crime of being slightly to the right of Mao, they are now condemning anyone who dares to point out the emperor (or in this case wannabe empress) has no clothes.

    Lets hope Apple doesn't start censoring reality.

    That would be a real reality distortion field.

    AS it is now, Daniel has only himself to blame (and a drinking problem as a result).

    Lets not let the next generation of kids never be exposed to reality.
    You bored me after the first sentence.  Stopped reading after that.
    dsdSpamSandwichtallest skil
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