Apple an 'antifragile monopoly,' more secure than critics believe, analyst claims

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 61
    tundraboy said:
    Christ, stop throwing around words that you don't fully understand.
    'Monopoly' means you are the lone seller.
    You can have monopoly power without being a monopoly.
    You can behave monopolistically without being a monopoly.
    Monopolistic behavior is how a firm with monopoly power behaves.
    Monopoly power a.k.a. Market power a.k.a Pricing power means you have the ability to set a price above your competitors and not lose all your customers.  The less customers you lose, the greater is your power.
    In a market with many competitors, you achieve some degree of market power through unique product differentiation a.k.a branding.  I.e. You are able to raise prices above your competitors (and make more profit, otherwise what's the point of raising prices) because you are perceived by customers as offering something unique that is of value to them.
    All the article is saying is that Apple, despite analysts and pundits talking as if Apple's success is so precarious, actually has, for whatever reason, very robust market power and all they need to do is keep on doing what they're doing and they'll be fine.
    Now all the people who are saying that Apple is doomed because they are not always the lead innovators anymore are not listening to what Buffet is saying.  He said Apple is now a branded consumer products company that happens to be a tech company.  Whether Apple has the latest whiz-bang tech matters only to a very small (and anal-retentive, I might add) segment of its customers.  Most iPhone customers don't give a hoot whether it's an OLED or LED screen that's on their Phone.  They just want it to work right AND work more or less as expected.  Just like coke drinkers do not obsess about the ingredients that go into the 5 cents of carbonated sweetened water that they're willing to pay $1.50 for. (remember pricing power?)
    Does this mean Apple can ease up on the R&D? No, otherwise they'll rapidly fall behind, ruin their brand reputation and lose their customers.  But it does mean they need to be very careful in introducing new features and technology into their product, just like Coke tinkers with the traditional coke 'taste' at their peril.

    Well, I think that Apple seriously tested their pricing power with the new MacBook's Pro they have given us. 
  • Reply 42 of 61
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    tundraboy said:
    Christ, stop throwing around words that you don't fully understand.
    'Monopoly' means you are the lone seller.
    You can have monopoly power without being a monopoly.
    You can behave monopolistically without being a monopoly.
    Monopolistic behavior is how a firm with monopoly power behaves.
    Monopoly power a.k.a. Market power a.k.a Pricing power means you have the ability to set a price above your competitors and not lose all your customers.  The less customers you lose, the greater is your power.
    In a market with many competitors, you achieve some degree of market power through unique product differentiation a.k.a branding.  I.e. You are able to raise prices above your competitors (and make more profit, otherwise what's the point of raising prices) because you are perceived by customers as offering something unique that is of value to them.
    All the article is saying is that Apple, despite analysts and pundits talking as if Apple's success is so precarious, actually has, for whatever reason, very robust market power and all they need to do is keep on doing what they're doing and they'll be fine.
    Now all the people who are saying that Apple is doomed because they are not always the lead innovators anymore are not listening to what Buffet is saying.  He said Apple is now a branded consumer products company that happens to be a tech company.  Whether Apple has the latest whiz-bang tech matters only to a very small (and anal-retentive, I might add) segment of its customers.  Most iPhone customers don't give a hoot whether it's an OLED or LED screen that's on their Phone.  They just want it to work right AND work more or less as expected.  Just like coke drinkers do not obsess about the ingredients that go into the 5 cents of carbonated sweetened water that they're willing to pay $1.50 for. (remember pricing power?)
    Does this mean Apple can ease up on the R&D? No, otherwise they'll rapidly fall behind, ruin their brand reputation and lose their customers.  But it does mean they need to be very careful in introducing new features and technology into their product, just like Coke tinkers with the traditional coke 'taste' at their peril.

    Well, I think that Apple seriously tested their pricing power with the new MacBook's Pro they have given us. 
    They seem to be selling, despite the many (valid, IMO) criticisms I've seen lobbed against them.
    netmage
  • Reply 43 of 61
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,171member
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    What a ridiculous story premise. Who in their right mind would question whether Apple's business methods have staying power. I've not heard anyone in YEARS say they thought Apple was in any danger business-wise. Hech with over $250B in the bank and just collecting interest if nothing else they could lose $10B every year and still be viable 30 years out. What a silly idea for a story basis. 
    There are many in the tech and financial media who have said Apple was doomed in the last 5 years

    Where? If so it was a joke unless of course you have some link to it that show otherwise. That's a ridiculous claim IMHO and most sane people would agree with me. 
  • Reply 44 of 61
    pk22901pk22901 Posts: 153member
    "I think that the anti-fragility advantage lasts only as long as Apple is able to remain unique in its focus on customer satisfaction at profitable pricing..."

    Exactly, but there's another side to this:

    "
    I think that the anti-fragility advantage lasts only as long as [competitors haven't found a way to boot stars themselves from being low cost sub-premium brands to being a high value premium brand].

    It's very hard to do. Samsung is the closest to being 
    successful in this, but we can appreciate the pressure they put on themselves to perform. (They minimized the Note 7 quality assurance stage too much resulting in exploding batteries.)
  • Reply 45 of 61
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    Ios already does all of this.
    determening what app you're going to use based on time and location, and backround app refreshing, done.

    System ram and cpu, why do you think they use a micro kernel?
    Only android will benefet from this.
    AI optemisation, lol.
    Sorry. It's not the same. Its machine learning (and AI) and in the case of Huawei they hope to have cracked deep learning, perhaps on a phone, by 2020.

    edited March 2017
  • Reply 46 of 61
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    What a ridiculous story premise. Who in their right mind would question whether Apple's business methods have staying power. I've not heard anyone in YEARS say they thought Apple was in any danger business-wise. Hech with over $250B in the bank and just collecting interest if nothing else they could lose $10B every year and still be viable 30 years out. What a silly idea for a story basis. 
    There are many in the tech and financial media who have said Apple was doomed in the last 5 years

    Where? If so it was a joke unless of course you have some link to it that show otherwise. That's a ridiculous claim IMHO and most sane people would agree with me. 
    Up until a few months ago, Apple's P/E (backing out net cash) implied the market valued Apple as having 10 years at current profits and then making no further profit. So essentially the business had 10 years of profitable life.  Sounds kind of "doomy" to me. 

    The article is a bit weak, but Horace's story around it is quite interesting. 
    edited March 2017
  • Reply 47 of 61
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    Ios already does all of this.
    determening what app you're going to use based on time and location, and backround app refreshing, done.

    System ram and cpu, why do you think they use a micro kernel?
    Only android will benefet from this.
    AI optemisation, lol.
    Sorry. It's not the same. Its machine learning (and AI) and in the case of Huawei they hope to have cracked deep learning, perhaps on a phone, by 2020.

    oh he's back. The Huawei fanboy plant. Hope they are paying you well for staying up late at night in China to post here
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    Ios already does all of this.
    determening what app you're going to use based on time and location, and backround app refreshing, done.

    System ram and cpu, why do you think they use a micro kernel?
    Only android will benefet from this.
    AI optemisation, lol.
    Sorry. It's not the same. Its machine learning (and AI) and in the case of Huawei they hope to have cracked deep learning, perhaps on a phone, by 2020.

    oh he's back. The Huawei fanboy plant. Hope they are paying you well for staying up late at night in China to post here
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    Ios already does all of this.
    determening what app you're going to use based on time and location, and backround app refreshing, done.

    System ram and cpu, why do you think they use a micro kernel?
    Only android will benefet from this.
    AI optemisation, lol.
    Sorry. It's not the same. Its machine learning (and AI) and in the case of Huawei they hope to have cracked deep learning, perhaps on a phone, by 2020.

    oh he's back. The Huawei fanboy plant. Hope they are paying you well for staying up late at night in China to post here
    Hmmm? Huawei Fanboy? You are confused.

    I try to speak about what I know. I have some Huawei phones so I can reference them. I try not to speak about Samsung as I've never actually owned any of their phones. I have some iPhones at home and quite a few Macs. That puts me in a great position to contrast some of the 'alternative facts' some people here dredge up. Where necessary, I even provide links to at least support what I'm saying. Huawei is doing very well right now and is proving to be a great alternative to Apple. I hope Apple responds to the challenge.

    I wonder how much experience you actually have with Huawei?

    Can we assume you have never even seen one in the flesh, much less actually owned or used one?
    singularity
  • Reply 48 of 61
    Clearly, Avon B7 you are a knowledgeable individual in this realm from your many reasoned comments. And while Huawei may be a user friendly experience with advanced tech, in your opinion. My overriding concern is with security with and Huawei or LTE product.
    China always has it eye on the prize, and one prize is embedding assets and mutiple 'seeing glass' into America the West in general and its secrets.
    https://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/huawei-zte%20investigative%20report%20(final).pdf

    Beware of shiny objects!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 61
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,574member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/
    You're missing my point -- just because your random Android knockoff has a some random feature, does not mean Apple is missing the boat on innovation. In fact I'd argue they're likely out-innovating in hardware tech your knockoff manufacturer who simply dumps Android onto their current handset, throws it against the wall, and hope it sticks. Meanwhile, if it weren't for Apple releasing TouchID your knockoff wouldnt even have a fingerprint scanner. That's the point.

    You have an iPhone-knockoff and in two years nobody will even know what it was, likely including you. I still have iPhone 4-generation devices in use by family members.
    No. I see your point. That's not the issue.

    You seem to have forgotten that my original reply was to someone else and as part of that reply I said Apple couldn't be expected to be first with innovation if they only release one phone a year.

    The same user asked what Android phones had given us after OLED. I gave a spread of answers that went from the simplest (fingerprint scanner gestures) to the most complex (AI phone optimization).

    These are not random or knock offs. 

    Even the fingerprint scanner on the iPhone was developed by someone else. All Apple did was buy the company and integrate the tech. No real innovation as such. Just a repackaging of something that has been around on computers for years. It wasn't even the first phone to feature a fingerprint scanner. Not that I find that an issue at all. I'm all for buying in someone else's work instead of reinventing the wheel.
    Oh GTFO with that "Apple only BOUGHT them! Not innovation!" That's complete garbage. You're moving the goal posts because you have to. The reality is acquisitions are a normal part of tech, and even after buying a company or tech it's up to Apple (those new staff are now Apple, btw) to integrate and implement it.

    And no duh it wasn't "the first" fingerprint scanner -- but it was the first one that worked. Big diff.

    Sorry, but your phone is most definitely an iPhone knockoff. Nobody will even know what that model was a couple years from now. I don't even know what it is today, that's how meaningless those Chinese knockoffs are. Not even a footnote in history.
    edited March 2017 netmagewatto_cobrabestkeptsecret
  • Reply 50 of 61
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    Clearly, Avon B7 you are a knowledgeable individual in this realm from your many reasoned comments. And while Huawei may be a user friendly experience with advanced tech, in your opinion. My overriding concern is with security with and Huawei or LTE product.
    China always has it eye on the prize, and one prize is embedding assets and mutiple 'seeing glass' into America the West in general and its secrets.
    https://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/huawei-zte%20investigative%20report%20(final).pdf

    Beware of shiny objects!
    Great information AJ. I knew about the decisions resulting from the committee reports but had never seen the report itself.

    However, they date back to 2011 and earlier when Huawei received government loans.

    I have skimmed them and will read them over the weekend. It will be a juicy read.

    Since then, Huawei has rolled into Europe and gained approval for exactly the kind of action it wants to take in the US. This leads me to believe that the underlying issues have been resolved. In fact, I remember someone from MWC saying Huawei was close to a deal with a carrier in the US.

    The government could scupper anything of course and the US scrutinises these national security issues perhaps in excess.

    That said, Huawei is largely dependent on getting approval for its networking infrastructure in the US before launching a major campaign against Apple.

    This is from the report

    'Huawei and ZTE cannot be trusted to be free of foreign state influence and thus pose a security threat to the United States and to our systems.'

    I had to smile when I saw that, as the same could be said by the Chinese government about some US companies.

    I've been in some critical infrastructure data centers and seen some of Google's caged equipment in the dark. No one is allowed into the room without registering and everything is recorded. Only Google engineers get into the cages. It's not maximum security but you see how seriously they take their IP.

    In part I can understand why Huawei was unwilling to answer some questions fully.

    These things have to be continually evaluated and I think Huawei could be about to slip in but the document will be an interesting read all the same. Thanks.

  • Reply 51 of 61

    Huawei and ZTE cannot be trusted to be free of foreign state influence and thus pose a security threat to the United States and to our systems.'
    Avon B7 said,
    I had to smile when I saw that, as the same could be said by the Chinese government about some US companies
    ----------------------
    response by AJ

    in my opinion, Apple has likely given mightily within China, to satisfy their unquenched need for information on the internal and external goings on.

    just as was implied in earlier discussions, there is an entry fee to play in that market.

    the question for me is, do we passively allow this proactive intrusion beyond Chinese domain by using their spy portal into servers, phones and the like?

    as you mentioned, apparently so, Europe and also Canada seem to be ok with these products as well.
    edited March 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 61
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    I believe this is pronounced "anti-fra-JEE-lay"...

    https://youtu.be/lR29zxrY2LM
  • Reply 53 of 61
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,603member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    You do realise that the iPhone and Siri have had machine learning algorithms for a number of years, it learns from your usage, an example would be telling you how long it's going to take you to get home when you pick your iPhone up around the time you normally head home. Etc
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 61
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    Ios already does all of this.
    determening what app you're going to use based on time and location, and backround app refreshing, done.

    System ram and cpu, why do you think they use a micro kernel?
    Only android will benefet from this.
    AI optemisation, lol.
    Sorry. It's not the same. Its machine learning (and AI) and in the case of Huawei they hope to have cracked deep learning, perhaps on a phone, by 2020.

    oh he's back. The Huawei fanboy plant. Hope they are paying you well for staying up late at night in China to post here
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    Ios already does all of this.
    determening what app you're going to use based on time and location, and backround app refreshing, done.

    System ram and cpu, why do you think they use a micro kernel?
    Only android will benefet from this.
    AI optemisation, lol.
    Sorry. It's not the same. Its machine learning (and AI) and in the case of Huawei they hope to have cracked deep learning, perhaps on a phone, by 2020.

    oh he's back. The Huawei fanboy plant. Hope they are paying you well for staying up late at night in China to post here
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    Ios already does all of this.
    determening what app you're going to use based on time and location, and backround app refreshing, done.

    System ram and cpu, why do you think they use a micro kernel?
    Only android will benefet from this.
    AI optemisation, lol.
    Sorry. It's not the same. Its machine learning (and AI) and in the case of Huawei they hope to have cracked deep learning, perhaps on a phone, by 2020.

    oh he's back. The Huawei fanboy plant. Hope they are paying you well for staying up late at night in China to post here
    Hmmm? Huawei Fanboy? You are confused.

    I try to speak about what I know. I have some Huawei phones so I can reference them. I try not to speak about Samsung as I've never actually owned any of their phones. I have some iPhones at home and quite a few Macs. That puts me in a great position to contrast some of the 'alternative facts' some people here dredge up. Where necessary, I even provide links to at least support what I'm saying. Huawei is doing very well right now and is proving to be a great alternative to Apple. I hope Apple responds to the challenge.

    I wonder how much experience you actually have with Huawei?

    Can we assume you have never even seen one in the flesh, much less actually owned or used one?
    Huawei doing well? Only a fanboy would say that.

    They missed profit goals by a MILE. They will be laying off tons of people in the phone division very soon

    http://www.aiainews.com/science-technology/2017/03/01/47093.html

    "as a result of the smartphone business operating profit failed to achieve internal targets, huawei's some employees start instead of worrying about possible arrival of layoffs."
    But you didn't answer my question.I'd still like to know.

    As for missing targets by a 'MILE'.

    How did you reach that conclusion? Are you privvy to the internal expectations?

    Huawei is doing great. The English from the linked article is very poor (Google Translate?) but it wasn't only about profits. Brand recognition was in their too.something that has been an amazing success.


  • Reply 55 of 61
    designrdesignr Posts: 617member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Apple does not have a monopoly in any sense of the word.
    Monopolies are characterized by pricing power. While the rest of the industry is selling phones for less and less, iphones are selling for more and more.

    Apple has a monopoly on elite level phones.

    Horace Dediu, who gets credit for this thesis is the best Apple analyst in the world. And he never gives price targets
    Oh, please. This is just playing word games. In the category of so-called "smartphones" Apple does not have monopoly control. Large profits are not an indicator of a monopoly, theyre a simple indicator that Apple markets and sells to the right group of consumers.
    Apple has a monopoly on over ONE BILLION CUSTOMERS. Its not like the iPhone's user base is small or niche. ONE BILLION. ONE BILLION. ONE BILLION. 

    Anything that has ONE BILLION locked in customers is considered a monopoly in my book.
    No. Apple does not have any "locked in" customers. None. Apple does not have a monopoly except in the mind of people who don't know what a monopoly really is.
    SpamSandwichsingularity
  • Reply 56 of 61
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    irnchriz said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/


    You do realise that the iPhone and Siri have had machine learning algorithms for a number of years, it learns from your usage, an example would be telling you how long it's going to take you to get home when you pick your iPhone up around the time you normally head home. Etc
    But is that the same as optimising the phone based on your individual behaviour and usage? Is that the same as actively trying to predict where your finger is going to touch the screen next and optimising graphics rendering in parallel to your anticipated next actions etc? AFAIK, the iPhone doesn't implement these things.

    Siri (and most AI efforts) makes use of the cloud. All this is happening locally.
  • Reply 57 of 61
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    muadibe said:
    Good observations.   One point: ".. but these technologies have already been implemented in some Android phones." And what new 'innovations' have the Android manufactures implemented since OLED screens and wireless charging?  Since Apple is apparently always behind, surely there are several other new 'innovations' that Apple must be behind on.

    Fingerprint Scanner Gestures?
    AI for phone optimization?
    Fingerprint scanner gestures? Boy you're really digging deep for those missing, uh, innovations. 

    And I don't even know what AI phone optimization means. I'm sure it's mind blowing, tho.
    Clearly spoken by someone who has never even used fingerprint gestures and completely fails to grasp the practicality and simplicity of the idea.

    As for AI optimization:

    http://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-superphone-730347/
    You're missing my point -- just because your random Android knockoff has a some random feature, does not mean Apple is missing the boat on innovation. In fact I'd argue they're likely out-innovating in hardware tech your knockoff manufacturer who simply dumps Android onto their current handset, throws it against the wall, and hope it sticks. Meanwhile, if it weren't for Apple releasing TouchID your knockoff wouldnt even have a fingerprint scanner. That's the point.

    You have an iPhone-knockoff and in two years nobody will even know what it was, likely including you. I still have iPhone 4-generation devices in use by family members.
    No. I see your point. That's not the issue.

    You seem to have forgotten that my original reply was to someone else and as part of that reply I said Apple couldn't be expected to be first with innovation if they only release one phone a year.

    The same user asked what Android phones had given us after OLED. I gave a spread of answers that went from the simplest (fingerprint scanner gestures) to the most complex (AI phone optimization).

    These are not random or knock offs. 

    Even the fingerprint scanner on the iPhone was developed by someone else. All Apple did was buy the company and integrate the tech. No real innovation as such. Just a repackaging of something that has been around on computers for years. It wasn't even the first phone to feature a fingerprint scanner. Not that I find that an issue at all. I'm all for buying in someone else's work instead of reinventing the wheel.
    Oh GTFO with that "Apple only BOUGHT them! Not innovation!" That's complete garbage. You're moving the goal posts because you have to. The reality is acquisitions are a normal part of tech, and even after buying a company or tech it's up to Apple (those new staff are now Apple, btw) to integrate and implement it.

    And no duh it wasn't "the first" fingerprint scanner -- but it was the first one that worked. Big diff.

    Sorry, but your phone is most definitely an iPhone knockoff. Nobody will even know what that model was a couple years from now. I don't even know what it is today, that's how meaningless those Chinese knockoffs are. Not even a footnote in history.
    Why are you getting so flustered?

    The OP asked what Android had done after OLED. I answered that question and mentioned gestures on the fingerprint scanner. You picked up on that point.

    I answered that as well and gave you the facts. It wasn't innovation by Apple. They bought the tech in and implemented it the following year. Let me put that another way, if they hadn't bought it, the scanner wouldn't have happened on the iPhone when it did. That is really it.

    I went so far as to make it clear that this was perfectly normal and the best way to move forward and even though it is in the text you quoted me on:

    "Not that I find that an issue at all. I'm all for buying in someone else's work instead of reinventing the wheel."

    And you still complain about me trying to 'move the goalposts'. The goalposts haven't moved at all. They are exactly where they were. In fact Huawei does something similar too.

    I have given the facts. Just as they are. Fingerprint scanners were not innovation. They had existed on computers and other device's for years. A smart phone is basically a portable computer with a SIM card. Fingerprint scanners were on phones before the iPhone. Of course they worked but they weren't as effective, accurate or fast as years later. And they have got even faster and more accurate since Apple put them on iPhones. They now even support gestures which is at least a little bit of innovation and it would be great if Apple implemented them too.

    In fact, after Huawei introduced gestures on the scanner in its phones, the idea was hardwired into Android 7.

    It's a really useful feature.




    singularity
  • Reply 58 of 61
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,856member
    designr said:
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    Apple does not have a monopoly in any sense of the word.
    Monopolies are characterized by pricing power. While the rest of the industry is selling phones for less and less, iphones are selling for more and more.

    Apple has a monopoly on elite level phones.

    Horace Dediu, who gets credit for this thesis is the best Apple analyst in the world. And he never gives price targets
    Oh, please. This is just playing word games. In the category of so-called "smartphones" Apple does not have monopoly control. Large profits are not an indicator of a monopoly, theyre a simple indicator that Apple markets and sells to the right group of consumers.
    Apple has a monopoly on over ONE BILLION CUSTOMERS. Its not like the iPhone's user base is small or niche. ONE BILLION. ONE BILLION. ONE BILLION. 

    Anything that has ONE BILLION locked in customers is considered a monopoly in my book.
    No. Apple does not have any "locked in" customers. None. Apple does not have a monopoly except in the mind of people who don't know what a monopoly really is.
    I mean, they've got me locked in. Some other platform would have to have a damn compelling system to even get me to begin to consider switching.
  • Reply 59 of 61
    brucemc said:

    He is not implying that Apple has a traditional monopoly at all - he clearly states the opposite. 
    You're absolutely right.  Dediu is a singular genius and until you have a thorough understanding of his analysis, you won't have a deep understanding of Apple.  As you say, Dediu makes it clear that while Apple is not a traditional monopoly, they have some of the characteristics of a traditional monopoly.  Apple does indeed have a monopoly on the Apple ecosystem, and there's never been a precedent for this business.  
    You are exactly right on this point. What baffles me is the fact that the execs at Apple dont seem to he holding that As a valuable thing. The Apple ecosystem is crumbling down, while some areas only seem valuable enough. Iphone vs. Mac professionals, networking products...software, do i need to go on...

    The value Of Apple products in my opinion has always been the way how Apple seems to minimise the gap between devices And stakeholders. To make it easy and not paintstaking to do something and need to know too much. The glue has always been software. But this is changing quickly. But that erodes the pain of leaving an ecosystem if the gap is getting bigger with Apple devices Anu others and smaller compared to competitors.
    edited March 2017
  • Reply 60 of 61
    Clearly, Avon B7 you are a knowledgeable individual in this realm from your many reasoned comments. And while Huawei may be a user friendly experience with advanced tech, in your opinion. My overriding concern is with security with and Huawei or LTE product.
    China always has it eye on the prize, and one prize is embedding assets and mutiple 'seeing glass' into America the West in general and its secrets.
    https://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/huawei-zte%20investigative%20report%20(final).pdf

    Beware of shiny objects!
    Oh, please. I wouldnt trust an American product if my life depended on it. #vault7 #olympic games #nitro zeus 😜
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