I wouldn't bother with an old Mac Pro. Too expensive of an upgrade for an old machine. Might work for a new Hackintosh if building one wasn't such a hassle.
If you have a later gen MacPro its still a very viable Mac. That being said yes, $1200 is too expensive, but if you really need the GPU power and want a Mac this is your route. Maybe down the road they'll develop a GeForce 1070 and/or 1080 which should be much more affordable.
Building a Hackintosh is an absolute continuous pain in the ass. I'd never do it...its not worth it and I don't understand why people do it. Just buy a Mac and be done with it instead of always wondering when the software will break. I want to use the damn thing, not tinker with it every time something happens that makes macOS not function properly, or at all.
The GeForce 1070 and 1080 will be supported by the same drivers that push this card. 1070 is about $350, with the 1080 about $530. 1070 is about 6.5 teraflops, with the 1080 around 10.7.
Nice! However, you might not get boot screen support, correct?
Yeah, there's no boot screen support.
Wouldn't this card have boot support with a 2012 Mac Pro running 10.12 and later? I don't see why not. Is there an EFI problem from that machine that would prevent it?
The Titan Xp may or may not, but reference cards using the driver without explicit EFI support don't. The driver loads too late in the boot process.
Ok, I'll look into that. Without explicit EFI support. I thought that Microsoft required that for all new machines running Windows 7 and above. So, cards for those machines should also support it.
I wouldn't bother with an old Mac Pro. Too expensive of an upgrade for an old machine. Might work for a new Hackintosh if building one wasn't such a hassle.
If you have a later gen MacPro its still a very viable Mac. That being said yes, $1200 is too expensive, but if you really need the GPU power and want a Mac this is your route. Maybe down the road they'll develop a GeForce 1070 and/or 1080 which should be much more affordable.
Building a Hackintosh is an absolute continuous pain in the ass. I'd never do it...its not worth it and I don't understand why people do it. Just buy a Mac and be done with it instead of always wondering when the software will break. I want to use the damn thing, not tinker with it every time something happens that makes macOS not function properly, or at all.
The GeForce 1070 and 1080 will be supported by the same drivers that push this card. 1070 is about $350, with the 1080 about $530. 1070 is about 6.5 teraflops, with the 1080 around 10.7.
Nice! However, you might not get boot screen support, correct?
Yeah, there's no boot screen support.
Wouldn't this card have boot support with a 2012 Mac Pro running 10.12 and later? I don't see why not. Is there an EFI problem from that machine that would prevent it?
The Titan Xp may or may not, but reference cards using the driver without explicit EFI support don't. The driver loads too late in the boot process.
Ok, I'll look into that. Without explicit EFI support. I thought that Microsoft required that for all new machines running Windows 7 and above. So, cards for those machines should also support it.
Specifically, explicit Mac EFI support. Reference cards can be flashed.
They've not yet posted the new GPU on their site, but it will only be a matter of time. I wrote the company asking questions with regard to performance benefits when coupled to a 15" MBP with TB2. They said there would be noticeable improvements to FCP and other major "pro" apps. So this isn't just about gaming.
But even if money is no object, I still am not sure I will be satisfied with the NOISE and SPACE REQUIREMENTS. The bad boy GPUs require their larger 400W PSU which has its own fan on top of the GPU fan. And that PSU is external to the BixonBox.
This is good news indeed, if it's supported by Resolve - about time our GTX 680s in the Cubix box got an upgrade.
Motley Fool is reporting Phil Schiller apologetically promising an expandable Mac Pro sometime within a year or so... better hurry. Innovate my ass? We wanted a Mac Pro with Thunderbolt and new Xeons and USB 3.0 that we could throw our cards into and instead we got a Cube. "Cube with the cracks and the cracks in the Cube..." It could never handle the heat - and AMD's cards are notorious for pink splats under pressure.
We should be using 5,1s - they're the best - but instead held onto our 4,1s hoping for the NEXT BIG THING. And 2013 came and went... but flashed 12-core 4,1s are fine and everyone I know uses them over the Trashcan. And with new Titans I might just hold off on that SuperMicro 32-core 8-bay for a bit longer...
They've not yet posted the new GPU on their site, but it will only be a matter of time. I wrote the company asking questions with regard to performance benefits when coupled to a 15" MBP with TB2. They said there would be noticeable improvements to FCP and other major "pro" apps. So this isn't just about gaming.
But even if money is no object, I still am not sure I will be satisfied with the NOISE and SPACE REQUIREMENTS. The bad boy GPUs require their larger 400W PSU which has its own fan on top of the GPU fan. And that PSU is external to the BixonBox.
It still is. Bizon uses exactly the same technologies and work-arounds that I did to do the PowerColor box -- its just packaged nicer. I've been trying to work with them for a loaner for evaluation, but so far they're not cooperating.
So excited. Going to now replace my AMD RX 480 8192MB card on my earlier hacked MacPro to run Sierra with maxed out CPUs and RAM. Good times! Now I can get rid of that extra power supply for my video card and still get better performance...
Nice to hear we'll finally get a MacPro next year that will finally be able to replace our previous ten MacPros. The trash can MacPros just haven't had the space to allow us to upgrade any of our several MacPros.
I would be shocked if the new design Mac Pro arrives before October 2018. It will probably get here around Christmas 2018. If you are expecting it at the beginning of the 2018 don't hold your breath. It's almost 2 year away.
I wouldn't bother with an old Mac Pro. Too expensive of an upgrade for an old machine. Might work for a new Hackintosh if building one wasn't such a hassle.
If you have a later gen MacPro its still a very viable Mac. That being said yes, $1200 is too expensive, but if you really need the GPU power and want a Mac this is your route. Maybe down the road they'll develop a GeForce 1070 and/or 1080 which should be much more affordable.
Building a Hackintosh is an absolute continuous pain in the ass. I'd never do it...its not worth it and I don't understand why people do it. Just buy a Mac and be done with it instead of always wondering when the software will break. I want to use the damn thing, not tinker with it every time something happens that makes macOS not function properly, or at all.
The GeForce 1070 and 1080 will be supported by the same drivers that push this card. 1070 is about $350, with the 1080 about $530. 1070 is about 6.5 teraflops, with the 1080 around 10.7.
Nice! However, you might not get boot screen support, correct?
Yeah, there's no boot screen support.
Wouldn't this card have boot support with a 2012 Mac Pro running 10.12 and later? I don't see why not. Is there an EFI problem from that machine that would prevent it?
The Titan Xp may or may not, but reference cards using the driver without explicit EFI support don't. The driver loads too late in the boot process.
Ok, I'll look into that. Without explicit EFI support. I thought that Microsoft required that for all new machines running Windows 7 and above. So, cards for those machines should also support it.
The new MacBook Pro is supposed to have very fast SSD's. Could those have gone in the Mac Pro.
What new technologies do you expect to make it into redesigned Mac Pro? DDR5? What would you like to see?
Ok, I'll look into that. Without explicit EFI support. I thought that Microsoft required that for all new machines running Windows 7 and above. So, cards for those machines should also support it.
The new MacBook Pro is supposed to have very fast SSD's. Could those have gone in the Mac Pro.
What new technologies do you expect to make it into redesigned Mac Pro? DDR5? What would you like to see?
At least certain aspects could be brought to the SSD stick to make them faster, but there might be real-world limitations that would still make them slower than what Apple is now doing by building the NAND and their custom controller right onto the logic board.
According to EveryMac, "the SSD uses a custom Apple design with a PCIe 2.0 x4 interface, which is capable of a theoretical maximum speed of 2 GB/s." (Emphasis mine)
At the very least, I think we can conclude that the SSDs in the Mac Pro could be made faster, even if they come in below what's being sold in new MBPs.
Mike Wuerthele said: Bizon... I've been trying to work with them for a loaner for evaluation, but so far they're not cooperating.
Mike, because I've exchanged emails with them, specifically with "Daniel," back in February this year, I sent them an email just now asking them to cooperate with you, explaining that it makes no logical sense for them not to cooperate with highly respected journalists. A product review, if indeed they have a good product, is a win-win for them and for would-be buyers (and for AppleInsider if the article proves popular).
If the folks at Bizon do get back to you and you are able to do a review, please focus on noise and space requirements. Those are the points that interest me as a would be buyer. For truly, even if the thing is shockingly fast, if it sounds like a jet engine in my room, I'll pass. Desk space is also limited so I am concerned about the fact that their 400W PSU seems to be external to the main unit, which is really, really too bad because I would prefer, if spending that kind of money, to get an all-in-one unit that has the PSU inside the box -- no multiple boxes required.
Also note that the BareFeets review said there was a kernel panic related to Sleep, so you may wish to test that on the newest 2S model.
Lastly, while it would be nice to know about performance on TB3 for the newest Macs, the fact is that there are a lot more TB3 Macs out there owned by folks like me who are interested in hearing about how our existing Macs (with TB2) can be made faster. So so knowing how a BizonBox 2S performs with say a 2015 MBP 15" would be very helpful information indeed.
I received an email reply from Daniel at Bizon who said they are filling customer orders and is why they could not send you one. But he went on to say that he should have one available 10 days from now, April 20th, to ship to you. The rest is of course between you and them, so I would encourage you to follow-up with them a week or so from now.
I wouldn't bother with an old Mac Pro. Too expensive of an upgrade for an old machine. Might work for a new Hackintosh if building one wasn't such a hassle.
If you have a later gen MacPro its still a very viable Mac. That being said yes, $1200 is too expensive, but if you really need the GPU power and want a Mac this is your route. Maybe down the road they'll develop a GeForce 1070 and/or 1080 which should be much more affordable.
Building a Hackintosh is an absolute continuous pain in the ass. I'd never do it...its not worth it and I don't understand why people do it. Just buy a Mac and be done with it instead of always wondering when the software will break. I want to use the damn thing, not tinker with it every time something happens that makes macOS not function properly, or at all.
The GeForce 1070 and 1080 will be supported by the same drivers that push this card. 1070 is about $350, with the 1080 about $530. 1070 is about 6.5 teraflops, with the 1080 around 10.7.
Nice! However, you might not get boot screen support, correct?
Yeah, there's no boot screen support.
Wouldn't this card have boot support with a 2012 Mac Pro running 10.12 and later? I don't see why not. Is there an EFI problem from that machine that would prevent it?
The Titan Xp may or may not, but reference cards using the driver without explicit EFI support don't. The driver loads too late in the boot process.
Ok, I'll look into that. Without explicit EFI support. I thought that Microsoft required that for all new machines running Windows 7 and above. So, cards for those machines should also support it.
The new MacBook Pro is supposed to have very fast SSD's. Could those have gone in the Mac Pro.
What new technologies do you expect to make it into redesigned Mac Pro? DDR5? What would you like to see?
Sorry, I got away from this for a while.
well, basically, I expect PCI 3 as a given. PCI 4 is being worked on, but won't be ready until late 2019, at the earliest. 4 slots, I hope. But Apple's response as to modularity is confusing. They didn't just come out and say - PCI slots. They were talking about them having upgrades, whatever that means. Maybe designing their own graphics boards again. But will those use Apple's own slots? Not wonderful, if true.
i expect memory will be whatever is current, and available, at the time. But if they're designing the mobo now, then they may design for DDR 4, hopefully with ECC, which would mean more Xeons. I also hope they'll allow at least 128GB RAM again, and possibly 256, as cards get bigger every two to three years, and 32GB cards are available now.
i would also hope for several Drive slots, with removable carriers, as in the older machines. Again, it's hard to tell what Apple's thinking is here. My Mac Pro is around 42 pounds. Doesn't bother me, as it's on the floor. But do they want to do that again, or are they going to go for something smaller? Personally, I don't think they need to use armor plate for the case as in my machines. They would do very well to look at BOXX, which is a workstation maker that's very similar to what Apple did in this space. A very respected company. Actually, I wish they'd just do a deal with them to produce the Mac Pro.
id like to see true Thunderbolt ports that aren't shared as on the 2013 model, where the 6 ports use 3 controllers, meaning that some are faster than others. Very annoying. I'd also like to see 6 USB c ports, two on the front. I wouldn't mind a Thunderbolt port on the front either. I would also want to see the displayport spec moved directly to 2.0, or higher. 1.4 is good for now, but it's already behind what the newest monitors are capable of.
id want Ethernet 10G. It's about time. While that's still expensive, Apple, in the past, was leading here. When Ethernet 100Mp, was out, and cards cost $750, Apple put it into their machines, which led to vast drops in the price of that standard. When Gb Ethernet came out, Apple did the same thing, hastening its acceptance everywhere. But they've done nothing for 10G, which I think is a mistake. While Thunderbolt can be used as a network connection, it's unusual, and isn't easily supported. I would like for them to keep two Ethernet ports on board for two networks, or combining them for throughput.
in addition, I would like to see the rumored Touch ID come to the Mac Pro, and other desktops. I understand that with detachable keyboards, security is more difficult to maintain, but I don't see that as a real problem. And unlike some, I really like the OLED strip, though I wish it was a bit taller. So I'd like to see that too.
i like the processor card on my machines. In theory, Apple could offer CPU upgrades that way, but they never have, though third parties do, at outrageous prices.
there are a bunch of other things I'd like added, but Apple isn't likely to do them. Meanwhile, since it seems as though this new machine, whatever it turns out to be is so far away, I gave in and bought a 2012 Mac Pro from a company on eBay that has 12 cores at 3.46GHz and 64GB RAM. It has no drives, which is ok, because I'm going to use mine, and has a crummy Nvidia 120GT card, which I'm going to replace. The 2012 machine was just really an upgraded 2011 machine with some minor improvements, and much better performance with the newer CPUs. It cost $2,000 with a 1 year guarantee. They reverb these machines, and have a very good rep. It should be here next week.
but my 2009 model won't run 10.12, and is acting flaky. I can't even upgrade to the latest version of 10.11, and components, for some reason. It's also disheartening to know that core for core, my iPhone 7+ is considerable faster!
Now if someone could give me $1200....It would be nice to also see the 1070 and 1080 available for the Mac as well.
Doesn’t the existence of this mean that the 1000 series will work now, even if we have to hack the drivers in? I use a 980, too; I could have sworn the next line already worked.
I wouldn't bother with an old Mac Pro. Too expensive of an upgrade for an old machine. Might work for a new Hackintosh if building one wasn't such a hassle.
If you have a later gen MacPro its still a very viable Mac. That being said yes, $1200 is too expensive, but if you really need the GPU power and want a Mac this is your route. Maybe down the road they'll develop a GeForce 1070 and/or 1080 which should be much more affordable.
Building a Hackintosh is an absolute continuous pain in the ass. I'd never do it...its not worth it and I don't understand why people do it. Just buy a Mac and be done with it instead of always wondering when the software will break. I want to use the damn thing, not tinker with it every time something happens that makes macOS not function properly, or at all.
The GeForce 1070 and 1080 will be supported by the same drivers that push this card. 1070 is about $350, with the 1080 about $530. 1070 is about 6.5 teraflops, with the 1080 around 10.7.
Nice! However, you might not get boot screen support, correct?
Yeah, there's no boot screen support.
Wouldn't this card have boot support with a 2012 Mac Pro running 10.12 and later? I don't see why not. Is there an EFI problem from that machine that would prevent it?
The Titan Xp may or may not, but reference cards using the driver without explicit EFI support don't. The driver loads too late in the boot process.
Ok, I'll look into that. Without explicit EFI support. I thought that Microsoft required that for all new machines running Windows 7 and above. So, cards for those machines should also support it.
Specifically, explicit Mac EFI support. Reference cards can be flashed.
I was just thinking about exactly what Nvidia is thinking. They have three aims here, hopefully, as I see it.
one is to get this to work inside the 5.1 firmware Mac Pro models. If so, then they would be expected to act as a proper Mac card would do. Otherwise why bother? After all, they're making a deal that it has Mac drivers. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been this article.
two is to get this to work with the 2013 machine in an extender case.
Now if someone could give me $1200....It would be nice to also see the 1070 and 1080 available for the Mac as well.
Doesn’t the existence of this mean that the 1000 series will work now, even if we have to hack the drivers in? I use a 980, too; I could have sworn the next line already worked.
While I'm OOC for a few days, had to answer this. As per the article, the 1000 series cards based on Pascal will work for the first time after the driver ships.
Without the Mac-specific EFI, there won't be a boot screen - the same as it's been if you use a reference card for the five years the drivers have been available. Whether or not Nvidia makes a Mac-specific EFI for the card isn't clear.
I wouldn't bother with an old Mac Pro. Too expensive of an upgrade for an old machine. Might work for a new Hackintosh if building one wasn't such a hassle.
If you have a later gen MacPro its still a very viable Mac. That being said yes, $1200 is too expensive, but if you really need the GPU power and want a Mac this is your route. Maybe down the road they'll develop a GeForce 1070 and/or 1080 which should be much more affordable.
Building a Hackintosh is an absolute continuous pain in the ass. I'd never do it...its not worth it and I don't understand why people do it. Just buy a Mac and be done with it instead of always wondering when the software will break. I want to use the damn thing, not tinker with it every time something happens that makes macOS not function properly, or at all.
If you've never done it, how do you know it's not worth it?
Look, if you need the power, it's absolutely worth it. Apple has nothing to offer at the high end right now. MicroSloth has nothing to offer, ever. A Hackintosh is the only way to go for a top of the line system if you need it today.
And yes, the 2012 Mac Pro is still a very good machine, and you've got some room to replace processors and video cards. The 2013 is crap, always has been, but you knew that.
But the only way to get 36-cores of Xeon with 512GB RAM is a Hackintosh. You probably don't need one, most of us don't. But it's doable today if you do.
Comments
https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox2s-egpu.html/
They've not yet posted the new GPU on their site, but it will only be a matter of time. I wrote the company asking questions with regard to performance benefits when coupled to a 15" MBP with TB2. They said there would be noticeable improvements to FCP and other major "pro" apps. So this isn't just about gaming.
But even if money is no object, I still am not sure I will be satisfied with the NOISE and SPACE REQUIREMENTS. The bad boy GPUs require their larger 400W PSU which has its own fan on top of the GPU fan. And that PSU is external to the BixonBox.
Motley Fool is reporting Phil Schiller apologetically promising an expandable Mac Pro sometime within a year or so... better hurry. Innovate my ass? We wanted a Mac Pro with Thunderbolt and new Xeons and USB 3.0 that we could throw our cards into and instead we got a Cube. "Cube with the cracks and the cracks in the Cube..." It could never handle the heat - and AMD's cards are notorious for pink splats under pressure.
We should be using 5,1s - they're the best - but instead held onto our 4,1s hoping for the NEXT BIG THING. And 2013 came and went... but flashed 12-core 4,1s are fine and everyone I know uses them over the Trashcan. And with new Titans I might just hold off on that SuperMicro 32-core 8-bay for a bit longer...
The new MacBook Pro is supposed to have very fast SSD's. Could those have gone in the Mac Pro.
What new technologies do you expect to make it into redesigned Mac Pro? DDR5? What would you like to see?
According to EveryMac, "the SSD uses a custom Apple design with a PCIe 2.0 x4 interface, which is capable of a theoretical maximum speed of 2 GB/s." (Emphasis mine)
Tests conducted by ComputerWorld, the 2016 MBP has an upward of 3.1 Gb/s. Assuming there isn't a case issue, that's only 248MB/s.
At the very least, I think we can conclude that the SSDs in the Mac Pro could be made faster, even if they come in below what's being sold in new MBPs.
If the folks at Bizon do get back to you and you are able to do a review, please focus on noise and space requirements. Those are the points that interest me as a would be buyer. For truly, even if the thing is shockingly fast, if it sounds like a jet engine in my room, I'll pass. Desk space is also limited so I am concerned about the fact that their 400W PSU seems to be external to the main unit, which is really, really too bad because I would prefer, if spending that kind of money, to get an all-in-one unit that has the PSU inside the box -- no multiple boxes required.
Also note that the BareFeets review said there was a kernel panic related to Sleep, so you may wish to test that on the newest 2S model.
Lastly, while it would be nice to know about performance on TB3 for the newest Macs, the fact is that there are a lot more TB3 Macs out there owned by folks like me who are interested in hearing about how our existing Macs (with TB2) can be made faster. So so knowing how a BizonBox 2S performs with say a 2015 MBP 15" would be very helpful information indeed.
I received an email reply from Daniel at Bizon who said they are filling customer orders and is why they could not send you one. But he went on to say that he should have one available 10 days from now, April 20th, to ship to you. The rest is of course between you and them, so I would encourage you to follow-up with them a week or so from now.
Best wishes.
well, basically, I expect PCI 3 as a given. PCI 4 is being worked on, but won't be ready until late 2019, at the earliest. 4 slots, I hope. But Apple's response as to modularity is confusing. They didn't just come out and say - PCI slots. They were talking about them having upgrades, whatever that means. Maybe designing their own graphics boards again. But will those use Apple's own slots? Not wonderful, if true.
i expect memory will be whatever is current, and available, at the time. But if they're designing the mobo now, then they may design for DDR 4, hopefully with ECC, which would mean more Xeons. I also hope they'll allow at least 128GB RAM again, and possibly 256, as cards get bigger every two to three years, and 32GB cards are available now.
i would also hope for several Drive slots, with removable carriers, as in the older machines. Again, it's hard to tell what Apple's thinking is here. My Mac Pro is around 42 pounds. Doesn't bother me, as it's on the floor. But do they want to do that again, or are they going to go for something smaller? Personally, I don't think they need to use armor plate for the case as in my machines. They would do very well to look at BOXX, which is a workstation maker that's very similar to what Apple did in this space. A very respected company. Actually, I wish they'd just do a deal with them to produce the Mac Pro.
id like to see true Thunderbolt ports that aren't shared as on the 2013 model, where the 6 ports use 3 controllers, meaning that some are faster than others. Very annoying. I'd also like to see 6 USB c ports, two on the front. I wouldn't mind a Thunderbolt port on the front either. I would also want to see the displayport spec moved directly to 2.0, or higher. 1.4 is good for now, but it's already behind what the newest monitors are capable of.
id want Ethernet 10G. It's about time. While that's still expensive, Apple, in the past, was leading here. When Ethernet 100Mp, was out, and cards cost $750, Apple put it into their machines, which led to vast drops in the price of that standard. When Gb Ethernet came out, Apple did the same thing, hastening its acceptance everywhere. But they've done nothing for 10G, which I think is a mistake. While Thunderbolt can be used as a network connection, it's unusual, and isn't easily supported. I would like for them to keep two Ethernet ports on board for two networks, or combining them for throughput.
in addition, I would like to see the rumored Touch ID come to the Mac Pro, and other desktops. I understand that with detachable keyboards, security is more difficult to maintain, but I don't see that as a real problem. And unlike some, I really like the OLED strip, though I wish it was a bit taller. So I'd like to see that too.
i like the processor card on my machines. In theory, Apple could offer CPU upgrades that way, but they never have, though third parties do, at outrageous prices.
there are a bunch of other things I'd like added, but Apple isn't likely to do them. Meanwhile, since it seems as though this new machine, whatever it turns out to be is so far away, I gave in and bought a 2012 Mac Pro from a company on eBay that has 12 cores at 3.46GHz and 64GB RAM. It has no drives, which is ok, because I'm going to use mine, and has a crummy Nvidia 120GT card, which I'm going to replace. The 2012 machine was just really an upgraded 2011 machine with some minor improvements, and much better performance with the newer CPUs. It cost $2,000 with a 1 year guarantee. They reverb these machines, and have a very good rep. It should be here next week.
but my 2009 model won't run 10.12, and is acting flaky. I can't even upgrade to the latest version of 10.11, and components, for some reason. It's also disheartening to know that core for core, my iPhone 7+ is considerable faster!
Doesn’t the existence of this mean that the 1000 series will work now, even if we have to hack the drivers in? I use a 980, too; I could have sworn the next line already worked.
one is to get this to work inside the 5.1 firmware Mac Pro models. If so, then they would be expected to act as a proper Mac card would do. Otherwise why bother? After all, they're making a deal that it has Mac drivers. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been this article.
two is to get this to work with the 2013 machine in an extender case.
three is to have it work properly in both.
Look, if you need the power, it's absolutely worth it. Apple has nothing to offer at the high end right now. MicroSloth has nothing to offer, ever. A Hackintosh is the only way to go for a top of the line system if you need it today.
And yes, the 2012 Mac Pro is still a very good machine, and you've got some room to replace processors and video cards. The 2013 is crap, always has been, but you knew that.
But the only way to get 36-cores of Xeon with 512GB RAM is a Hackintosh. You probably don't need one, most of us don't. But it's doable today if you do.