Schools are ditching iPads for $200 ChromeBooks and this thing is supposedly aimed at the educational market? What the hell is going on here? And what about the AI trolls who are always bitching about MacBooks with the same amount of RAM and storage? This sounds really gefickt to me.
It was a confused event. Microsoft was billing it as an education event. So naturally people are assuming k-12 and a chromebook competitor. Instead they announce a laptop designed to compete with the MacBook or MacBook Air not a chrome book. It's like they didn't think they could have an event just to announce the laptop so they threw some education stuff in there to try and make it a complete event. People talk about Apple's sometimes confusing naming conventions. Here we have Surface Pro, Surface Book and now Surface Laptop. How is that not confusing?
No it wasn't. Windows 10s is what they are targeting at K-12. The Surface Laptop is not targeted at that market at all - there are several hardware vendors that are making the hardware for that market - starting at the $189 price point.
It's typical, but, apple users have NO clue as to what Windows 10s is. Windows 10s IS Windows 10 Pro with a couple of modifications - mainly involving startup, locking it to the windows store (a feature that is actually in Windows 10 Creators Update), and it can't be managed through on premise AD. Windows 10s is meant to be managed by cloud by a cloud based MDM solution (Intune for education being the main one). The point of windows 10s is to compete with ChromeOS - cheap hardware and easy to manage. Most American school districts have very little in the way of funds for IT, so can't spend money on expensive devices and device management. This is why Chromebooks are so popular in this market - and are eroding both Apple's and Microsoft's market share in that area (if you look at the actual numbers it has much more harm to Apple then MS at this point, but, it's only a matter of time before it starts really hurting MS as well). What Windows 10 s gives them is a secure easily managed and restricted environment with the ability to easily switch profiles.
Being locked to the Windows store in that environment is not really a hindrance - its a safety and performance feature. It seems to be little realized, but, even Win32 desktop applications can be made available to the Windows store via the Centennial bridge. There are a number of those applications on the store today - Adobe Photoshop Elements 15 being one example. Full Microsoft Office will also soon becoming to the Windows store as was announced today along with the Spotify desktop application.
No it was a confused event. Because it was billed as an education event a lot of tech sites and even pro-Microsoft bloggers were expecting a Chromebook type device. The laptop they announced didn't really have anything to do with education. And their hardware strategy is confused. What is the point of Surface Pro (and why is it called Pro) now that they have two laptops in the lineup. To me Microsoft is clearly saying yep we get it people want laptops when in the past they were all in on the it's a tablet when you want and a laptop when you want. If this laptop is successful I wouldn't be surprised if Surface Pro gets discontinued. And I'll bet if you ask Surface users they would probably take a beefier version of this laptop than the Surface Book and it's fugly looking hinge.
As a decade old Mac user who moved back to Microsoft last year due to the Mac's rubbish keyboard and same same design its good to see Microsoft forging ahead, experimenting with design and trying different things - sure some will poo poo the spec's (especially on this forum) but I really haven't seen Apple do anything that's remotely interesting for over 5 years other than make things thinner and take away features.
...
Apple needs to enhance iOS to add Mouse Support to the iPadPro and make an iOS based laptop. ...
I fully agree... The low end laptop/tablet is ripe for innovation -- the kind of innovation that Apple excels in: Using technology to make people's lives better....
Apple released their MBP and it has a lot of advantages -- but is priced out of the reach of the common man.
Meanwhile, their lower end laptops (Air and MacBook), shuffle along using obsolete, off-the-shelf technology -- while their pro level tablets have physical keyboards but are hobbled by their lack of a cursor and file system. ... The time is ripe for Apple to produce an insanely great, innovative product (rather than just more of the same ol').
Touchscreen notebooks are a bad idea. Notice in the Microsoft promo video, right at the end they show a woman demonstrating for a split second that it's a touchscreen, tapping the screen with her right index finger. Then notice that her left hand is resting on the bottom half of the machine. That's because an open notebook is a lever. Particularly on a lightweight notebook, tapping on the screen will lift up the bottom, unless you use the other hand to hold it down. Even then, if the hinge isn't incredibly robust, holding the bottom while touching the screen will still yield unwanted screen movement. The Surface laptop will just be a wobbly mess. Its key feature is also a critical design flaw. If you ever see one in the wild, you'll see its user hunched over it, tapping with one hand while holding the top corner of the back of the screen with the other, and the corresponding elbow firmly planted on the table beside the machine. It's an ergonomic disaster.
Meanwhile, their lower end laptops (Air and MacBook), shuffle along using obsolete, off-the-shelf technology
The Air is an old product. Hasn't been updated una few years and I'd wager it never will be updated again.
Thr MacBoook is very innovative, definitely not obsolete or using off the shelf components.
It weighs just 920 grams vs Surface Laptop which weighs 1,250 grams. It's a third heavier than the MacBook again. A MacBook and a 2012 iPad mini combined still weigh less.
Touchscreen notebooks are a bad idea. Notice in the Microsoft promo video, right at the end they show a woman demonstrating for a split second that it's a touchscreen, tapping the screen with her right index finger. Then notice that her left hand is resting on the bottom half of the machine. That's because an open notebook is a lever. Particularly on a lightweight notebook, tapping on the screen will lift up the bottom, unless you use the other hand to hold it down. Even then, if the hinge isn't incredibly robust, holding the bottom while touching the screen will still yield unwanted screen movement. The Surface laptop will just be a wobbly mess. Its key feature is also a critical design flaw. If you ever see one in the wild, you'll see its user hunched over it, tapping with one hand while holding the top corner of the back of the screen with the other, and the corresponding elbow firmly planted on the table beside the machine. It's an ergonomic disaster.
LOL... So why is it a "bad idea"? If you want to touch it, you touch it. If you don't, you don't. My grandson LOVES his dad's touchscreen notebook. To him, its a very natural way of interacting with it. For me, I prefer the touchpad -- It's neither right not wrong. It's personal preference.
Meanwhile, their lower end laptops (Air and MacBook), shuffle along using obsolete, off-the-shelf technology
The Air is an old product. Hasn't been updated una few years and I'd wager it never will be updated again.
Thr MacBoook is very innovative, definitely not obsolete or using off the shelf components.
It weighs just 920 grams vs Surface Laptop which weighs 1,250 grams. It's a third heavier than the MacBook again. A MacBook and a 2012 iPad mini combined still weigh less.
Sorry, but a MacBook is nothing more than a standard thin & light laptop running an Apple OS -- but from a hardware perspective, pretty much industry standard stuff...
It's time for Apple to quit copying and start innovating... I don't back off of my statement that: "Meanwhile, their lower end laptops (Air and MacBook), shuffle along
using obsolete, off-the-shelf technology -- while their pro level
tablets have physical keyboards but are hobbled by their lack of a
cursor and file system. ... The time is ripe for Apple to produce an insanely great, innovative product (rather than just more of the same ol')."
Touchscreen notebooks are a bad idea. Notice in the Microsoft promo video, right at the end they show a woman demonstrating for a split second that it's a touchscreen, tapping the screen with her right index finger. Then notice that her left hand is resting on the bottom half of the machine. That's because an open notebook is a lever. Particularly on a lightweight notebook, tapping on the screen will lift up the bottom, unless you use the other hand to hold it down. Even then, if the hinge isn't incredibly robust, holding the bottom while touching the screen will still yield unwanted screen movement. The Surface laptop will just be a wobbly mess. Its key feature is also a critical design flaw. If you ever see one in the wild, you'll see its user hunched over it, tapping with one hand while holding the top corner of the back of the screen with the other, and the corresponding elbow firmly planted on the table beside the machine. It's an ergonomic disaster.
LOL... So why is it a "bad idea"? If you want to touch it, you touch it. If you don't, you don't. My grandson LOVES his dad's touchscreen notebook. To him, its a very natural way of interacting with it. For me, I prefer the touchpad -- It's neither right not wrong. It's personal preference.
I won't get into the debate of touch screen vs. not, as I haven't had the opportunity to try the former and make an informed judgement. One of these days I will stop by a Best Buy and give one a try. Like it or not though, Apple claims to do extensive user experience & usability type testing, and they may actually know what they are talking about when they say the user experience isn't good. It is necessary to look beyond the "using it on my lap" mode, and think about if that laptop is plugged into an external monitor and keyboard - what happens to that workflow. Lots of nuances like this.
Simply throwing all options into a product isn't "innovation", it increases the costs, and it can create a confusion around how best to use a products. If a few people like it, but for the most part it is sub-optimal, then was that the best decision?
Final comment is regarding the persistent claims that Apple needs to "innovate" on the Mac line. The criticism of the recent MBP was against its innovation. Those that complained wanted the same as previous model, with updated CPU/GPU, more RAM, and keeping all of the same ports, and cheaper - absolutely nothing "new". Apple actually delivered A LOT of innovation in the latest MBP - Touch Bar, Touch ID, more power in a smaller chassis (yes, it takes research & design to make things smaller), fastest SSDs, reduced fan, wide colour screen. Some might not need or want them, but you can't say that it wasn't innovative...Same with the iMac 5K - absolutely filled with innovation upon its introduction.
Apple does have problems or gaps to address in the Mac line, but it isn't a lack of innovation.
for one thing there's no sd card slot. that's the charging port
for another, u can upgrade to full windows 10 pro for free before the end of the year, and after that it's only $49
this isn't an expensive laptop with a cheap os, it's a lightweight machine aimed at college kids who need something to take notes and watch Netflix and look nice enough that they'll be proud to own it
Touchscreen notebooks are a bad idea. Notice in the Microsoft promo video, right at the end they show a woman demonstrating for a split second that it's a touchscreen, tapping the screen with her right index finger. Then notice that her left hand is resting on the bottom half of the machine. That's because an open notebook is a lever. Particularly on a lightweight notebook, tapping on the screen will lift up the bottom, unless you use the other hand to hold it down. Even then, if the hinge isn't incredibly robust, holding the bottom while touching the screen will still yield unwanted screen movement. The Surface laptop will just be a wobbly mess. Its key feature is also a critical design flaw. If you ever see one in the wild, you'll see its user hunched over it, tapping with one hand while holding the top corner of the back of the screen with the other, and the corresponding elbow firmly planted on the table beside the machine. It's an ergonomic disaster.
LOL... So why is it a "bad idea"? If you want to touch it, you touch it. If you don't, you don't. My grandson LOVES his dad's touchscreen notebook. To him, its a very natural way of interacting with it. For me, I prefer the touchpad -- It's neither right not wrong. It's personal preference.
I won't get into the debate of touch screen vs. not, as I haven't had the opportunity to try the former and make an informed judgement. One of these days I will stop by a Best Buy and give one a try. Like it or not though, Apple claims to do extensive user experience & usability type testing, and they may actually know what they are talking about when they say the user experience isn't good. It is necessary to look beyond the "using it on my lap" mode, and think about if that laptop is plugged into an external monitor and keyboard - what happens to that workflow. Lots of nuances like this.
Simply throwing all options into a product isn't "innovation", it increases the costs, and it can create a confusion around how best to use a products. If a few people like it, but for the most part it is sub-optimal, then was that the best decision?
Final comment is regarding the persistent claims that Apple needs to "innovate" on the Mac line. The criticism of the recent MBP was against its innovation. Those that complained wanted the same as previous model, with updated CPU/GPU, more RAM, and keeping all of the same ports, and cheaper - absolutely nothing "new". Apple actually delivered A LOT of innovation in the latest MBP - Touch Bar, Touch ID, more power in a smaller chassis (yes, it takes research & design to make things smaller), fastest SSDs, reduced fan, wide colour screen. Some might not need or want them, but you can't say that it wasn't innovative...Same with the iMac 5K - absolutely filled with innovation upon its introduction.
Apple does have problems or gaps to address in the Mac line, but it isn't a lack of innovation.
You said: "Simply throwing all options into a product isn't "innovation" " That's true... But that assumes that the "innovator" is simply throwing stuff at a wall to see what will stick without any thought or foresight.
As for adding a touchscreen to a laptop or creating a 2in1 -- both are meeting a user need: In the first case, young people are more accustomed to and comfortable with a touch screen than a touch pad (plus, a touchscreen laptop still contains the touch pad -- so nothing is lost). In the 2nd case, a tablet form factor provides advantages for certain tasks while a laptop form factor provides advantages for certain other tasks (essentially, the laptop excels at anything that involves a desk and the tablet at everything else) -- so producing a device that can perform equally well either way is meeting a user need...
None of that is (thoughtlessly) throwing anything at anything. It is doing what Steve Jobs did best: meeting the user's need.
As to your last point on innovation: I don't consider any of what you mentioned "innovative". Those are 'just' evolutionary improvements to a mature product. While giving credit to one of Apple's greatest strengths: making great products that "just work", it is not innovative....
I maintain that the next revolution will come from combining the tablet and laptop form factors in order to better meet the needs of current and future customers. Building a Great Wall between those two form factors as Apple is currently doing won't keep the bad guys out....
OK, maybe it's easy to manage, but as Editor Mike W. pointed out in reply #20, "for the record, the i7 version with 16GB and 512GB SSD is $2299, and still has Windows 10S." That ain't cheap!
You must have missed the part about the new offerings from Acer, Asus, Dell, Fujitsu, HP, Samsung and Toshiba ranging from $189 to $299.
You must have missed the part about the new offerings from Acer, Asus, Dell, Fujitsu, HP, Samsung and Toshiba ranging from $189 to $299.
We missed it because those are worthless pieces of shit that won't last a year. You're not objective in any capacity. Go to MacRumors; they'll love your lies there.
John Gruber just wrote a post about the Surface Laptop not being a competitor to the Mac because it runs Windows. OK he might be part of the Mac user base that would use macOS on any quality hardware but would never use Windows period. But I think as Apple has become a bigger and more popular brand there is a segment of the Mac customer base that isn't as tied to the software who buy Macs because they look good and are a status symbol. I don't think Microsoft is going after die hard macOS lovers. With Surface Book and Studio they're going after creative professionals who use cross platform software and maybe aren't so enthused by Apple's hardware offerings. With Surface Laptop it's clear as day they're going after hipsters and casual users who want a nice looking thin and light laptop and aren't so wedded to a specific OS. I'm not saying their strategy is right or will work but to suggest they're not in competition with Apple because they run a different OS is a mistake IMO. Maybe that's one reason Apple has chosen not to port iTunes to the Windows store.
Touchscreen notebooks are a bad idea. Notice in the Microsoft promo video, right at the end they show a woman demonstrating for a split second that it's a touchscreen, tapping the screen with her right index finger. Then notice that her left hand is resting on the bottom half of the machine. That's because an open notebook is a lever. Particularly on a lightweight notebook, tapping on the screen will lift up the bottom, unless you use the other hand to hold it down. Even then, if the hinge isn't incredibly robust, holding the bottom while touching the screen will still yield unwanted screen movement. The Surface laptop will just be a wobbly mess. Its key feature is also a critical design flaw. If you ever see one in the wild, you'll see its user hunched over it, tapping with one hand while holding the top corner of the back of the screen with the other, and the corresponding elbow firmly planted on the table beside the machine. It's an ergonomic disaster.
LOL... So why is it a "bad idea"? If you want to touch it, you touch it. If you don't, you don't. My grandson LOVES his dad's touchscreen notebook. To him, its a very natural way of interacting with it. For me, I prefer the touchpad -- It's neither right not wrong. It's personal preference.
I won't get into the debate of touch screen vs. not, as I haven't had the opportunity to try the former and make an informed judgement. One of these days I will stop by a Best Buy and give one a try. Like it or not though, Apple claims to do extensive user experience & usability type testing, and they may actually know what they are talking about when they say the user experience isn't good. It is necessary to look beyond the "using it on my lap" mode, and think about if that laptop is plugged into an external monitor and keyboard - what happens to that workflow. Lots of nuances like this.
Simply throwing all options into a product isn't "innovation", it increases the costs, and it can create a confusion around how best to use a products. If a few people like it, but for the most part it is sub-optimal, then was that the best decision?
Final comment is regarding the persistent claims that Apple needs to "innovate" on the Mac line. The criticism of the recent MBP was against its innovation. Those that complained wanted the same as previous model, with updated CPU/GPU, more RAM, and keeping all of the same ports, and cheaper - absolutely nothing "new". Apple actually delivered A LOT of innovation in the latest MBP - Touch Bar, Touch ID, more power in a smaller chassis (yes, it takes research & design to make things smaller), fastest SSDs, reduced fan, wide colour screen. Some might not need or want them, but you can't say that it wasn't innovative...Same with the iMac 5K - absolutely filled with innovation upon its introduction.
Apple does have problems or gaps to address in the Mac line, but it isn't a lack of innovation.
You said: "Simply throwing all options into a product isn't "innovation" " That's true... But that assumes that the "innovator" is simply throwing stuff at a wall to see what will stick without any thought or foresight.
As for adding a touchscreen to a laptop or creating a 2in1 -- both are meeting a user need: In the first case, young people are more accustomed to and comfortable with a touch screen than a touch pad (plus, a touchscreen laptop still contains the touch pad -- so nothing is lost). In the 2nd case, a tablet form factor provides advantages for certain tasks while a laptop form factor provides advantages for certain other tasks (essentially, the laptop excels at anything that involves a desk and the tablet at everything else) -- so producing a device that can perform equally well either way is meeting a user need...
None of that is (thoughtlessly) throwing anything at anything. It is doing what Steve Jobs did best: meeting the user's need.
As to your last point on innovation: I don't consider any of what you mentioned "innovative". Those are 'just' evolutionary improvements to a mature product. While giving credit to one of Apple's greatest strengths: making great products that "just work", it is not innovative....
I maintain that the next revolution will come from combining the tablet and laptop form factors in order to better meet the needs of current and future customers. Building a Great Wall between those two form factors as Apple is currently doing won't keep the bad guys out....
So Touch Bar is not innovative, but a touch screen is?
OK, maybe it's easy to manage, but as Editor Mike W. pointed out in reply #20, "for the record, the i7 version with 16GB and 512GB SSD is $2299, and still has Windows 10S." That ain't cheap!
You must have missed the part about the new offerings from Acer, Asus, Dell, Fujitsu, HP, Samsung and Toshiba ranging from $189 to $299.
You missed the part (and left off the quote) that I was replying to: "The point of windows 10s is to compete with ChromeOS - cheap hardware and easy to manage"
And you must have missed my follow-up reply: "Well sure, I get that there will be cheap options. I was just taking issue with the statement that "the point of Windows 10 S is to compete with ChromeOS." That might be a particular strategy point for MS, but obviously not their only point if it is being included on an expensive Surface laptop."
Touchscreen notebooks are a bad idea. Notice in the Microsoft promo video, right at the end they show a woman demonstrating for a split second that it's a touchscreen, tapping the screen with her right index finger. Then notice that her left hand is resting on the bottom half of the machine. That's because an open notebook is a lever. Particularly on a lightweight notebook, tapping on the screen will lift up the bottom, unless you use the other hand to hold it down. Even then, if the hinge isn't incredibly robust, holding the bottom while touching the screen will still yield unwanted screen movement. The Surface laptop will just be a wobbly mess. Its key feature is also a critical design flaw. If you ever see one in the wild, you'll see its user hunched over it, tapping with one hand while holding the top corner of the back of the screen with the other, and the corresponding elbow firmly planted on the table beside the machine. It's an ergonomic disaster.
LOL... So why is it a "bad idea"? If you want to touch it, you touch it. If you don't, you don't. My grandson LOVES his dad's touchscreen notebook. To him, its a very natural way of interacting with it. For me, I prefer the touchpad -- It's neither right not wrong. It's personal preference.
I won't get into the debate of touch screen vs. not, as I haven't had the opportunity to try the former and make an informed judgement. One of these days I will stop by a Best Buy and give one a try. Like it or not though, Apple claims to do extensive user experience & usability type testing, and they may actually know what they are talking about when they say the user experience isn't good. It is necessary to look beyond the "using it on my lap" mode, and think about if that laptop is plugged into an external monitor and keyboard - what happens to that workflow. Lots of nuances like this.
Simply throwing all options into a product isn't "innovation", it increases the costs, and it can create a confusion around how best to use a products. If a few people like it, but for the most part it is sub-optimal, then was that the best decision?
Final comment is regarding the persistent claims that Apple needs to "innovate" on the Mac line. The criticism of the recent MBP was against its innovation. Those that complained wanted the same as previous model, with updated CPU/GPU, more RAM, and keeping all of the same ports, and cheaper - absolutely nothing "new". Apple actually delivered A LOT of innovation in the latest MBP - Touch Bar, Touch ID, more power in a smaller chassis (yes, it takes research & design to make things smaller), fastest SSDs, reduced fan, wide colour screen. Some might not need or want them, but you can't say that it wasn't innovative...Same with the iMac 5K - absolutely filled with innovation upon its introduction.
Apple does have problems or gaps to address in the Mac line, but it isn't a lack of innovation.
You said: "Simply throwing all options into a product isn't "innovation" " That's true... But that assumes that the "innovator" is simply throwing stuff at a wall to see what will stick without any thought or foresight.
As for adding a touchscreen to a laptop or creating a 2in1 -- both are meeting a user need: In the first case, young people are more accustomed to and comfortable with a touch screen than a touch pad (plus, a touchscreen laptop still contains the touch pad -- so nothing is lost). In the 2nd case, a tablet form factor provides advantages for certain tasks while a laptop form factor provides advantages for certain other tasks (essentially, the laptop excels at anything that involves a desk and the tablet at everything else) -- so producing a device that can perform equally well either way is meeting a user need...
None of that is (thoughtlessly) throwing anything at anything. It is doing what Steve Jobs did best: meeting the user's need.
As to your last point on innovation: I don't consider any of what you mentioned "innovative". Those are 'just' evolutionary improvements to a mature product. While giving credit to one of Apple's greatest strengths: making great products that "just work", it is not innovative....
I maintain that the next revolution will come from combining the tablet and laptop form factors in order to better meet the needs of current and future customers. Building a Great Wall between those two form factors as Apple is currently doing won't keep the bad guys out....
So Touch Bar is not innovative, but a touch screen is?
Nice try, but not what I said. With regard to a touch screen laptop i said: "young people are more accustomed to and comfortable with a touch screen than a touch pad". I was referring to meeting a user need. I did not mention innovation.
My comments on innovation were directed at your statements that called Apple's evolutionary, minor improvements in the MacBook line "innovative"...
As a decade old Mac user who moved back to Microsoft last year due to the Mac's rubbish keyboard and same same design its good to see Microsoft forging ahead, experimenting with design and trying different things - sure some will poo poo the spec's (especially on this forum) but I really haven't seen Apple do anything that's remotely interesting for over 5 years other than make things thinner and take away features.
I can't stand the new mac keyboards. 1/2 the Travel twice the cost. The keyboard on this looks nice but other than that not as nice a regular laptop that doesn't have a 360 degree hinge which is the best way for taking notes with the keyboard out of the way. They were probably smart to get this out before the back to school season. But this probably means the Surface Pro 5 and Surface Book 2 won't be out till fall. All in All MEH even when I still liked some things like speakers through the keyboard or the thin touch screen.
Apple needs to enhance iOS to add Mouse Support to the iPadPro and make an iOS based laptop. One model for $250 using an A9 chip with a multi-color polycarbonate body and a 9 inch screen for the education market and young. A higher end model with pen and mouse support designed to replace the Air as the intro laptop based on A10 chip and 12.9 screen with a 360 degree hinge at less than 2.00 pounds. This needs to be the laptop for getting people to come over from Windows and ChromeBooks.
The new Surface products have a near-identical keyboard keys action design as Apple has. Just watch Microsoft's promo video.
Perfect timing for Microsoft to catch up to Apple as it clumsily stumbles with MBP.
The MBP isn't stumbling -- Apple just had a record quarter in Mac sales. What are people buying? Not the MP, not the Mini. MacBooks are bigger sellers than iMacs. So that leaves the old Air, the new MB, and the new MBP.
One thing that did catch my attention was that TC described demand for the new MBP as simply 'strong'. I thought the reference was somewhat understated. I don't think the new MBPs have been flying off the shelves in the way Phil Schiller mentioned in his damage control tweet shortly after release.
Perfect timing for Microsoft to catch up to Apple as it clumsily stumbles with MBP.
The MBP isn't stumbling -- Apple just had a record quarter in Mac sales. What are people buying? Not the MP, not the Mini. MacBooks are bigger sellers than iMacs. So that leaves the old Air, the new MB, and the new MBP.
One thing that did catch my attention was that TC described demand for the new MBP as simply 'strong'. I thought the reference was somewhat understated. I don't think the new MBPs have been flying off the shelves in the way Phil Schiller mentioned in his damage control tweet shortly after release.
I will challenge your "I don't think" with my "I am not sure"...
Comments
The low end laptop/tablet is ripe for innovation -- the kind of innovation that Apple excels in: Using technology to make people's lives better....
Apple released their MBP and it has a lot of advantages -- but is priced out of the reach of the common man.
Meanwhile, their lower end laptops (Air and MacBook), shuffle along using obsolete, off-the-shelf technology -- while their pro level tablets have physical keyboards but are hobbled by their lack of a cursor and file system.
... The time is ripe for Apple to produce an insanely great, innovative product (rather than just more of the same ol').
Thr MacBoook is very innovative, definitely not obsolete or using off the shelf components.
It weighs just 920 grams vs Surface Laptop which weighs 1,250 grams. It's a third heavier than the MacBook again. A MacBook and a 2012 iPad mini combined still weigh less.
It's time for Apple to quit copying and start innovating... I don't back off of my statement that:
"Meanwhile, their lower end laptops (Air and MacBook), shuffle along using obsolete, off-the-shelf technology -- while their pro level tablets have physical keyboards but are hobbled by their lack of a cursor and file system.
... The time is ripe for Apple to produce an insanely great, innovative product (rather than just more of the same ol')."
Simply throwing all options into a product isn't "innovation", it increases the costs, and it can create a confusion around how best to use a products. If a few people like it, but for the most part it is sub-optimal, then was that the best decision?
Final comment is regarding the persistent claims that Apple needs to "innovate" on the Mac line. The criticism of the recent MBP was against its innovation. Those that complained wanted the same as previous model, with updated CPU/GPU, more RAM, and keeping all of the same ports, and cheaper - absolutely nothing "new". Apple actually delivered A LOT of innovation in the latest MBP - Touch Bar, Touch ID, more power in a smaller chassis (yes, it takes research & design to make things smaller), fastest SSDs, reduced fan, wide colour screen. Some might not need or want them, but you can't say that it wasn't innovative...Same with the iMac 5K - absolutely filled with innovation upon its introduction.
Apple does have problems or gaps to address in the Mac line, but it isn't a lack of innovation.
there's some misinformation in this article
for one thing there's no sd card slot. that's the charging port
for another, u can upgrade to full windows 10 pro for free before the end of the year, and after that it's only $49
this isn't an expensive laptop with a cheap os, it's a lightweight machine aimed at college kids who need something to take notes and watch Netflix and look nice enough that they'll be proud to own it
That's true... But that assumes that the "innovator" is simply throwing stuff at a wall to see what will stick without any thought or foresight.
As for adding a touchscreen to a laptop or creating a 2in1 -- both are meeting a user need: In the first case, young people are more accustomed to and comfortable with a touch screen than a touch pad (plus, a touchscreen laptop still contains the touch pad -- so nothing is lost). In the 2nd case, a tablet form factor provides advantages for certain tasks while a laptop form factor provides advantages for certain other tasks (essentially, the laptop excels at anything that involves a desk and the tablet at everything else) -- so producing a device that can perform equally well either way is meeting a user need...
None of that is (thoughtlessly) throwing anything at anything. It is doing what Steve Jobs did best: meeting the user's need.
As to your last point on innovation: I don't consider any of what you mentioned "innovative". Those are 'just' evolutionary improvements to a mature product. While giving credit to one of Apple's greatest strengths: making great products that "just work", it is not innovative....
I maintain that the next revolution will come from combining the tablet and laptop form factors in order to better meet the needs of current and future customers. Building a Great Wall between those two form factors as Apple is currently doing won't keep the bad guys out....
And you must have missed my follow-up reply: "Well sure, I get that there will be cheap options. I was just taking issue with the statement that "the point of Windows 10 S is to compete with ChromeOS." That might be a particular strategy point for MS, but obviously not their only point if it is being included on an expensive Surface laptop."
So much for objectivity.
With regard to a touch screen laptop i said: "young people are more accustomed to and comfortable with a touch screen than a touch pad". I was referring to meeting a user need. I did not mention innovation.
My comments on innovation were directed at your statements that called Apple's evolutionary, minor improvements in the MacBook line "innovative"...