Microsoft unveils new Surface Pro ahead of Apple Mac & iPad Pro refreshes

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 80
    goofy1958goofy1958 Posts: 145member
    gumbi said:
    jkichline said:
    I'm not buying the 13.5 hours of battery life though.  The claim is that this is with video playback without WiFi and screen on low brightness.  However, that's not typical usage.  I know for a fact that I can get 12+ hours from an iPad with it actually being used.  I

    This device is about 50% thicker than the iPad Pro and the latter has more pixels.  Notice how they compared it to the 12" MacBook instead of the iPad Pro... why are we comparing laptops to tablets exactly? Why isn't the iPad Pro considered a computer by statistics companies again?

    The thing also weights more.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great device, but I don't think it's all that much better than the existing iPad Pro lineup and Apple is set to announce something new in less than two weeks...

    Because you can do heavy workloads on a surface you can not do on an iPad...  Can you run VS or equivalent dev environment?  Can you run a full on database server like Sql Server?  A local web server?  Linux?  Full Photoshop?  No...  That's the reason they don't compare to iPads.  One is a toy one is a powerful computer for real productivity tasks.


    You don't honestly believe you are going to change anyone's mind about this, do you?  You are seriously deluded if you think so.
    dewmeradarthekatwatto_cobrachia
  • Reply 22 of 80
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,014member
    gumbi said:
    jkichline said:
    I'm not buying the 13.5 hours of battery life though.  The claim is that this is with video playback without WiFi and screen on low brightness.  However, that's not typical usage.  I know for a fact that I can get 12+ hours from an iPad with it actually being used.  I

    This device is about 50% thicker than the iPad Pro and the latter has more pixels.  Notice how they compared it to the 12" MacBook instead of the iPad Pro... why are we comparing laptops to tablets exactly? Why isn't the iPad Pro considered a computer by statistics companies again?

    The thing also weights more.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great device, but I don't think it's all that much better than the existing iPad Pro lineup and Apple is set to announce something new in less than two weeks...

    Because you can do heavy workloads on a surface you can not do on an iPad...  Can you run VS or equivalent dev environment?  Can you run a full on database server like Sql Server?  A local web server?  Linux?  Full Photoshop?  No...  That's the reason they don't compare to iPads.  One is a toy one is a powerful computer for real productivity tasks.
    Anytime you dismiss something as a toy you've outed yourself as a crank. Why? Because today's tools were yesterday's toys. Mainframers called PC toys, command line users called GUIs toys, etc etc. All wrong. Just as you are. The ipad does 1000 times more than PCs of yesteryear -- so were those toys? Nope. It's only your definition that changes. 
    pscooter63radarthekatwaverboywatto_cobrachiafirelock
  • Reply 23 of 80
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    gumbi said:
    jkichline said:
    I'm not buying the 13.5 hours of battery life though.  The claim is that this is with video playback without WiFi and screen on low brightness.  However, that's not typical usage.  I know for a fact that I can get 12+ hours from an iPad with it actually being used.  I

    This device is about 50% thicker than the iPad Pro and the latter has more pixels.  Notice how they compared it to the 12" MacBook instead of the iPad Pro... why are we comparing laptops to tablets exactly? Why isn't the iPad Pro considered a computer by statistics companies again?

    The thing also weights more.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great device, but I don't think it's all that much better than the existing iPad Pro lineup and Apple is set to announce something new in less than two weeks...
    Because you can do heavy workloads on a surface you can not do on an iPad...  Can you run VS or equivalent dev environment?  Can you run a full on database server like Sql Server?  A local web server?  Linux?  Full Photoshop?  No...  That's the reason they don't compare to iPads.  One is a toy one is a powerful computer for real productivity tasks.
    Do you own or use a Surface Pro?  Do you believe it is good value for the money to run it as a server?  Or use full Photoshop?  Why pay the premium for the laptop form factor when what you want is a PC.  It costs a lot to get a well spec'd system. 

    And I am sure you are absolutely horrified at the lack of ports and 16GB limit...
    tmaypscooter63radarthekatwatto_cobrachiaicoco3
  • Reply 24 of 80
    gumbi said:
    Full Photoshop?  No...  That's the reason they don't compare to iPads.  One is a toy one is a powerful computer for real productivity tasks.

    The only reason Photoshop isn't available for the iPad Pro is that Adobe doesn't have a financial reason for putting it on there...yet. Check out this teaser vid for Affinity Photo for iOS (all the features of the desktop version) and see if you still think it's really a "power" issue that is keeping desktop quality apps from being on the platform. 

    https://petapixel.com/2016/06/14/sneak-peek-affinity-photo-ipad/
  • Reply 25 of 80
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 2,652member
    linkman said:
    I'm highly skeptical of their battery life and speed performance claims. I've dealt with both the iPad and Surface Pro in the real world and the Surface gets crippled by all of the other tasks it's doing leaving the user with a laggy interface and really short time on battery. The iPad seems to always live up to expectations. 
    Yeah... I wonder if that performance claim is only for bursty things that are able to use Turbo before throttling back down to the base clock. 

    I look forward to seeing what a 10nm A10X (or A11 or whatever Apple ends up using) can do. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 80
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,027member
    gumbi said:
    jkichline said:
    I'm not buying the 13.5 hours of battery life though.  The claim is that this is with video playback without WiFi and screen on low brightness.  However, that's not typical usage.  I know for a fact that I can get 12+ hours from an iPad with it actually being used.  I

    This device is about 50% thicker than the iPad Pro and the latter has more pixels.  Notice how they compared it to the 12" MacBook instead of the iPad Pro... why are we comparing laptops to tablets exactly? Why isn't the iPad Pro considered a computer by statistics companies again?

    The thing also weights more.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great device, but I don't think it's all that much better than the existing iPad Pro lineup and Apple is set to announce something new in less than two weeks...

    Because you can do heavy workloads on a surface you can not do on an iPad...  Can you run VS or equivalent dev environment?  Can you run a full on database server like Sql Server?  A local web server?  Linux?  Full Photoshop?  No...  That's the reason they don't compare to iPads.  One is a toy one is a powerful computer for real productivity tasks.
    A "real productivity task" will be defined by the user, not by the machine.
    anantksundaramstourquedewmepscooter63radarthekatwatto_cobrachiaspheric
  • Reply 27 of 80
    appexappex Posts: 687member
    Apple should make a Mac tablet.
  • Reply 28 of 80
    gumbigumbi Posts: 148member
    brucemc said:
    gumbi said:
    jkichline said:
    I'm not buying the 13.5 hours of battery life though.  The claim is that this is with video playback without WiFi and screen on low brightness.  However, that's not typical usage.  I know for a fact that I can get 12+ hours from an iPad with it actually being used.  I

    This device is about 50% thicker than the iPad Pro and the latter has more pixels.  Notice how they compared it to the 12" MacBook instead of the iPad Pro... why are we comparing laptops to tablets exactly? Why isn't the iPad Pro considered a computer by statistics companies again?

    The thing also weights more.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great device, but I don't think it's all that much better than the existing iPad Pro lineup and Apple is set to announce something new in less than two weeks...
    Because you can do heavy workloads on a surface you can not do on an iPad...  Can you run VS or equivalent dev environment?  Can you run a full on database server like Sql Server?  A local web server?  Linux?  Full Photoshop?  No...  That's the reason they don't compare to iPads.  One is a toy one is a powerful computer for real productivity tasks.
    Do you own or use a Surface Pro?  Do you believe it is good value for the money to run it as a server?  Or use full Photoshop?  Why pay the premium for the laptop form factor when what you want is a PC.  It costs a lot to get a well spec'd system. 

    And I am sure you are absolutely horrified at the lack of ports and 16GB limit...

    I do - an orginal surface pro - and no I don't run it as a server.  I run sql server on it for development.

    And, no, I don't decry the lack of ports - because it has the right ports.  And I've never had a problem with 16GB of RAM.  that's more than enough to run vs, sql server, and a vm or two.
  • Reply 29 of 80
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,095member
    gumbi said:
    jkichline said:
    I'm not buying the 13.5 hours of battery life though.  The claim is that this is with video playback without WiFi and screen on low brightness.  However, that's not typical usage.  I know for a fact that I can get 12+ hours from an iPad with it actually being used.  I

    This device is about 50% thicker than the iPad Pro and the latter has more pixels.  Notice how they compared it to the 12" MacBook instead of the iPad Pro... why are we comparing laptops to tablets exactly? Why isn't the iPad Pro considered a computer by statistics companies again?

    The thing also weights more.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great device, but I don't think it's all that much better than the existing iPad Pro lineup and Apple is set to announce something new in less than two weeks...

    Because you can do heavy workloads on a surface you can not do on an iPad...  Can you run VS or equivalent dev environment?  Can you run a full on database server like Sql Server?  A local web server?  Linux?  Full Photoshop?  No...  That's the reason they don't compare to iPads.  One is a toy one is a powerful computer for real productivity tasks.


    Apparently you have used none of these (Visual Studio or other dev environment, Sql Server, local web server) because if you had, you'd know that is impossible to manage thousands of lines of code without the versatility of a mouse interface. If you plan to do so, then kick out that ridiculous Metro UI, attach a mouse and switch to the good old Windows desktop. And never mind why your powerful computer is shaped like a tablet and why it actually has a bigger footprint than a true laptop...
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 30 of 80
    gumbigumbi Posts: 148member
    gumbi said:
    jkichline said:
    I'm not buying the 13.5 hours of battery life though.  The claim is that this is with video playback without WiFi and screen on low brightness.  However, that's not typical usage.  I know for a fact that I can get 12+ hours from an iPad with it actually being used.  I

    This device is about 50% thicker than the iPad Pro and the latter has more pixels.  Notice how they compared it to the 12" MacBook instead of the iPad Pro... why are we comparing laptops to tablets exactly? Why isn't the iPad Pro considered a computer by statistics companies again?

    The thing also weights more.  I'm not saying it wouldn't be a great device, but I don't think it's all that much better than the existing iPad Pro lineup and Apple is set to announce something new in less than two weeks...

    Because you can do heavy workloads on a surface you can not do on an iPad...  Can you run VS or equivalent dev environment?  Can you run a full on database server like Sql Server?  A local web server?  Linux?  Full Photoshop?  No...  That's the reason they don't compare to iPads.  One is a toy one is a powerful computer for real productivity tasks.


    Apparently you have used none of these (Visual Studio or other dev environment, Sql Server, local web server) because if you had, you'd know that is impossible to manage thousands of lines of code without the versatility of a mouse interface. If you plan to do so, then kick-off that ridiculous Metro UI, attach a mouse and switch to the good old Windows desktop. And never mind why your powerful computer is shaped like a tablet and why it actually has a bigger footprint than a true laptop...
    Since when does the surface not have the flexibility of  a keyboard and mouse...  Oh, yeah never.  You obviously have never used a surface.
    avon b7
  • Reply 31 of 80
    anomeanome Posts: 1,474member
    clemynx said:
    It's a very solid product. Microsoft is now ahead Apple when looking at how to best transition from desktop to tablet.
    Prove it.

    I also find it telling that there's no whining about only have 16gb ram and only one USB port. Those were supposed major shortcomings of Apple products -- but not competitors?

    But you can get a dock (not included) or a dongle (also not included) that connects to the proprietary Surface Port and connects to any peripheral! Unlike on Apple where you have to pay extra to buy an adaptor to connect your industry standard ports to other ports...

    (I actually heard someone on a podcast who had been bitching about the need for dongles on the MBP talk about how innovative the Surface was because of the Surface Port, and the Surface Dock which you could connect anything to.)

    waverboy
  • Reply 32 of 80
    irelandireland Posts: 17,779member
    clemynx said:
    It's a very solid product. Microsoft is now ahead Apple when looking at how to best transition from desktop to tablet.
    Quite a subjective statement, if you ask me. Microsoft is saying this is better than a regular laptop, but I disagree. And it's certainly not a better tablet than an iPad. I think it's a confused product that's selling to people who assume they need something different. Like an iPhone with a glass back would sell to people who want something different but would/will be less practical than an aluminium rear. Apple are being strict in sticking to the tablet vision and not for the usual fault of studdorness on Apple's part, but because they genuinely believe it's a better way for some tasks and for a lot of people. What Apple need to work on now is lowering their share of profits on higher priced apps to coax Adobe and the like to bring their full versions of apps to iPad and lower the price on iPad Pro 32 GB model. Price it more aggressively!
    edited May 2017 dewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 80
    akamine_jrakamine_jr Posts: 11unconfirmed, member
    Surface has a huge advantage over any iPad: mouse cursor. No way iPads will be taken seriously in businesses until it behaves as a proper computer, as Apple claims they are. This coming from an Apple fan. 
  • Reply 34 of 80
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    Surface has a huge advantage over any iPad: mouse cursor. No way iPads will be taken seriously in businesses until it behaves as a proper computer, as Apple claims they are. This coming from an Apple fan. 
    Not sure why some people think the only way to improve the iPad is to make it a Mac...

    A certain segment will prefer a 2-in-1 device.  Great for them.  However, that doesn't mean the hybrid is the better answer.  MS Surface results over last 4 years certainly haven't indicated it is more than a small minority.  

    A hybrid like Surface Pro will not be "as good a tablet" as a tablet focused device.  In this case, the SP is thicker and heavier than iPad Pro, lower resolution, and you must always deal with a built in kick stand.  That is a compromise that someone who wants mostly a laptop will deal with, but not someone who wants a more mobile experience.  So far the market place results over last 4 years indicate a preference for Apple's approach.  Perhaps that will change in the future, but it is not what the data indicates.
    pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 80
    irelandireland Posts: 17,779member
    Surface has a huge advantage over any iPad: mouse cursor. No way iPads will be taken seriously in businesses until it behaves as a proper computer, as Apple claims they are. This coming from an Apple fan. 
    As an Apple fan, Apple makes computers with a mouse cursor already.
    tallest skilwatto_cobrachia
  • Reply 36 of 80
    baederboybaederboy Posts: 36member
    Surface has a huge advantage over any iPad: mouse cursor. No way iPads will be taken seriously in businesses until it behaves as a proper computer, as Apple claims they are. This coming from an Apple fan. 

    Do you have an iPad? If you have the software keyboard showing, use two fingers on the keyboard area and the keyboard area turns into a giant touchpad to move a cursor within the current text box.
    On latest iPhones force touch in the keyboard area similarly activates it as a touchpad. 
    What else would you need a mouse cursor for? If you want to move to a different area use your finger and touch where you want to go. 
    Are people aware that soft keyboard can be turned into giant touch pad to move cursor? It was a revelation to me when I discovered this. Made it very easy to precisely move around in a text box. 


    edited May 2017 pscooter63watto_cobrabrucemcchia
  • Reply 37 of 80
    baederboy said:
    Surface has a huge advantage over any iPad: mouse cursor. No way iPads will be taken seriously in businesses until it behaves as a proper computer, as Apple claims they are. This coming from an Apple fan. 

    Do you have an iPad? If you have the software keyboard showing, use two fingers on the keyboard area and the keyboard area turns into a giant touchpad to move a cursor within the current text box.
    On latest iPhones force touch in the keyboard area similarly activates it as a touchpad. 
    What else would you need a mouse cursor for? If you want to move to a different area use your finger and touch where you want to go. 
    Are people aware that soft keyboard can be turned into giant touch pad to move cursor? It was a revelation to me when I discovered this. Made it very easy to precisely move around in a text box. 


    i did not know this its brilliant, not sure how i missed it thanks!!!
    watto_cobrachia
  • Reply 38 of 80
    pbruttopbrutto Posts: 29member
    I feel that so many miss the fact that this is a brand new kaby lake i7 vs a custom designed, 2 year old arm chip. I just don't think 1.7x faster in this case is anything at all impressive...
    radarthekatwatto_cobrak2kwicoco3
  • Reply 39 of 80
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,066member
    Surface has a huge advantage over any iPad: mouse cursor. No way iPads will be taken seriously in businesses until it behaves as a proper computer, as Apple claims they are. This coming from an Apple fan. 
    I totally agree,  I'll get a iPad Pro when they add mouse support.   They have already added pencil support so it should be easy. Till then will get a Surface Pro with LTE hopefully in the fall.

     Hopefully Apple will finally have new stuff coming out starting with vast improvements to Siri.
  • Reply 40 of 80
    akamine_jrakamine_jr Posts: 11unconfirmed, member
    baederboy said:
    Surface has a huge advantage over any iPad: mouse cursor. No way iPads will be taken seriously in businesses until it behaves as a proper computer, as Apple claims they are. This coming from an Apple fan. 

    Do you have an iPad? If you have the software keyboard showing, use two fingers on the keyboard area and the keyboard area turns into a giant touchpad to move a cursor within the current text box.
    On latest iPhones force touch in the keyboard area similarly activates it as a touchpad. 
    What else would you need a mouse cursor for? If you want to move to a different area use your finger and touch where you want to go. 
    Are people aware that soft keyboard can be turned into giant touch pad to move cursor? It was a revelation to me when I discovered this. Made it very easy to precisely move around in a text box. 


    I have used it on my iPhone every five minutes. And I have teste it in my nephew's iPad, trying it out for a college course where I will need one tablet or notebook. Honestly, iPads are great for fun, but not if you need a quick, versatile device for annotations. A mouse would make it much faster. Also, I used an iPad as a POS machine at my business, but I gave up. Not suiting at all. Hope Apple adjusts its iPad line to a more realistic usage. 
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