215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
1. As has been explained numerous times -- including in this article -- Kaby Lake literally CANNOT support more than 16GB of LPDDR RAM. You'll want to wait for Cannon Lake (not even Coffee Lake!) before you get an MBP that can do more than 16GB.
2. Na ga ha pen, especially as TB3 is as fast or faster than internal.
3. I agree that this was a genuine loss, but the compact USB3 docks that are cheap and plentiful have this and much more, so again not really much of an issue.
4. Personal taste, but I'm fine with the current keyboard. The original MB keyboard was good (bigger keys) but just a little TOO flat. This redesign in the MBPs is great (and I churn words for a living).
Still no reason given for an update to Kaby Lake: there's no significant speed improvement, it doesn't allow for more than 16GB of RAM, so ... what's the point?
I would *love* to see an MB upgrade with real USB-C 3.1 and a faster chip (and this is entirely possible), but I can't imagine why Apple would upgrade the current MBP when this is literally ZERO improvement in doing so. Next year, there will be a chip that can do more than 16GB. Till then, there's no point.
Reduced chip count (USB 3.1 natively supported), improved codec support (VP9, HVEC 10 bit) and slight improvements in speed and power.
No reason NOT to have a drop in spec boost. Folks bitch when Apple doesn't bother and they bitch when Apple might bother.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
Still no reason given for an update to Kaby Lake: there's no significant speed improvement, it doesn't allow for more than 16GB of RAM, so ... what's the point?
I would *love* to see an MB upgrade with real USB-C 3.1 and a faster chip (and this is entirely possible), but I can't imagine why Apple would upgrade the current MBP when this is literally ZERO improvement in doing so. Next year, there will be a chip that can do more than 16GB. Till then, there's no point.
Reduced chip count (USB 3.1 natively supported), improved codec support (VP9, HVEC 10 bit) and slight improvements in speed and power.
No reason NOT to have a drop in spec boost. Folks bitch when Apple doesn't bother and they bitch when Apple might bother.
USB 3.1 native support doesn't remove the need for the TB3 chipset on the MBP -- there is no USB 3.1 chipset on it. Assuming Apple bakes in VP9 support in macOS, then that might mean something there, though. The improvements in speed are very, very minor. Battery life may or may not be affected, and the PC benchmarks on that aren't at all clear.
There are arguments for and against a minor bump with KL in the MBP. But, I don't think that a major motherboard revision above and beyond dropping in KL is going to happen this time around.
I've got a 2016. I'm fine if Apple upgrades because frequent upgrades when warranted is what was promised all along with the migration to Intel, right? What I'm having problems with is the unrealistic "Apple will fix what I hate about the machine" mentality surrounding the rumors about the update, when there are no indications that the machine will have more than just Kaby Lake -- if it gets upgraded at all.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
I'd rather have the 2.5GB/sec SSD than a 2.5-inch SATA III one. Even the M.2 form factor NVMe SSDs don't hit the speed that the 15-inch does.
Guy's welcome to his opinion, but he's basing it off of a lot of false assumptions about intent, and what will happen to Apple's marketshare if they don't kowtow to a very loud, very small portion of Apple's market.
While I understand optimizing speed is the raison d'être for close tolerance memory 'onboard', per the article in my work I'd rather have capacity than speed for the same price, yet the ability to change components with industry standard form factors (as I have with every Mac I've owned) as needs, options and pricing adjust, eventually downgrading and repurposing when newer tech replaces older, and save the 'appliance' approach for consumer products.....
At some point storage becomes good enough for internal storage. Granted I'm short on space right now with a 500GB internal on my 2013 MBP but I keep some large datasets for work (115GB worth of data) on top of a couple large VMs and 3 years worth of clutter.
1TB would keep me in pretty good shape when I get my 2016 or 2017 MBP replacement until 2019 or 2020.
Lets put this in perspective. 500GB will give you 53 minutes worth of 8K full format 24 fps REDCODE 8:1 Red Weapon Helium video. Given a bit of overhead on a 1TB drive for other stuff I'll have about 800GB for data...and if I was editing 8K video that would be enough for 84 minutes worth.
More likely I'd have that on an external drive and edit using proxies on the internal drive then render at full resolution at the end.
For 4K/24 full format it's 267 minutes worth of video in 800GB.
I personally don't edit R3D but ProRes which is about a GB a minute. So for a 2 hour show multicam I end up with about 200-300GB worth of video to edit together (yes, I do this for fun) that I leave on an external project USB3 SSD and edit using proxy after making an archival copy on the RAID.
/shrug
That the SSD is soldered on isn't that big a deal to me anymore. Any revolutionary jump in size or performance will likely require a new machine anyway.
...well from where I sit the difference between a pretty fast 1TB (intel 600p) and an 'onboard' uber fast (Mushkin Scorpion) looks like $1k... I'd happily take the lower speed storage and upgrade the graphics card, but that is not possible now - does one size fit all or is it simply about Apple profit in the end?
I see a lot of defense of what is profitable vs making the 'best' computers (remember x-grid?) and so is that the difference now? I still say offer pros something adjustable as professional needs require... Apple has seemingly admitted as much for the Pro. Is 'best' always quantifiable ie. fastest...
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
Yes. Seriously.
You didn't answer the question.
You should answer it before saying people are in denial.
What proof do I want? How about just saying where you got your sales figures from because when you say 'judging by sales numbers' to refute a post, you obviously based that claim on something.
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
I don't know if sales were disappointing for Apple or if they went off the scale. It's been my stance from day one but if you have some real numbers, I'm all ears.
Your reference to 'legacy' ports is also questionable. No sooner had the new MBPs been released than the Apple Defenders began calling anything that basically wasn't USB-C 'legacy'.
It was tiring then and is tiring now. At the time, more than half the Mac lineup had those so called legacy port, new, fresh out of the box. Now, almost seven months later, that is still the case and if rumours are to be believed, we may have them on the iMac right up to the end of the year!
There has been no massive shift to USB-C on USB devices and the reason is simple. The active park of USB ports are still overwhelmingly USB 3 and below and the industry continues to churn out those devices.
One of my major criticisms of the new MBP was that wholesale change to USB-C TB was unnecessary. That has been borne out in these seven months. Since release we have heard about battery life for some users not meeting expectations. Since release we have heard that Apple had a different battery design that ran into trouble and didn't make into the final product. Since release we have heard that even within Apple, the 'thinness over everything else' wasn't universally supported and that 'fat' designs were considered. Yes, it is all based on rumours but so was your original 'judging by sales numbers' claim.
I think the history books will describe the release of the current MBP line as premature.
As for next week and what will be released (if anything), I would say that if the MBP gets a refresh, one area could be the battery that supposedly didn't make it into the original release.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
The reason he only spoke about online sales is most likely because those are the only figures he had to hand. After one week, he's not going to have a firm idea of the retail sales from the Apple stores and other outlets.
Secondly, if the forum whining is not actually hurting sales then making a follow-up comment is fairly pointless.
The only way to know for sure is if Apple puts back the legacy ports. I mean, if sales are suffering as much as you imply then it would be suicide not to.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
The reason he only spoke about online sales is most likely because those are the only figures he had to hand. After one week, he's not going to have a firm idea of the retail sales from the Apple stores and other outlets.
Secondly, if the forum whining is not actually hurting sales then making a follow-up comment is fairly pointless.
The only way to know for sure is if Apple puts back the legacy ports. I mean, if sales are suffering as much as you imply then it would be suicide not to.
Yes. True. It's impossible to know for sure but Phil is the kind of guy that likes to 'get things out'. We all remember the 'can't innovate, my ass' comment which I'm sure that, with hindsight, he possibly regrets.
The online sales comment was a risk. My personal take is that if sales had continued in the same line we would have heard about it pretty quickly, as the original criticism continued for months after his claim. The problem is that with his original claim, he was making a rod for his own back. If end of quarter sales were best ever, then fine, he could jump around Balmer style beating his chest, but if not, better not to say anything.
I think the latter is possibly the case and the 'strong' comment by TC with regards to new MBPs sales goes a little way to supporting the idea. If we throw in the rumoured refresh next week, which would be extra quick given Apple's recent history, perhaps that lends even further support to the idea.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
1. As has been explained numerous times -- including in this article -- Kaby Lake literally CANNOT support more than 16GB of LPDDR RAM. You'll want to wait for Cannon Lake (not even Coffee Lake!) before you get an MBP that can do more than 16GB.
2. Na ga ha pen, especially as TB3 is as fast or faster than internal.
3. I agree that this was a genuine loss, but the compact USB3 docks that are cheap and plentiful have this and much more, so again not really much of an issue.
4. Personal taste, but I'm fine with the current keyboard. The original MB keyboard was good (bigger keys) but just a little TOO flat. This redesign in the MBPs is great (and I churn words for a living).
1. Heard it, don't care. The Windows laptop I'm typing on right now has 32GB of RAM, Apple don't get a pass because of choices they've made around Kaby Lake. A Pro machine needs to live up to its title. 2. Haven't heard a good argument for why, or any justification of the stance. Again, this is Apple's choice, they can be criticised for it, and they can change their design. 3. Not really much of an issue for you. 4. Personal taste, but I'm not.
Don't understand why you think your opinion has relevance in reply to mine. I'm not going to change my mind on the SD card or keyboard because a stranger on the internet doesn't mind/likes it.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
1. As has been explained numerous times -- including in this article -- Kaby Lake literally CANNOT support more than 16GB of LPDDR RAM. You'll want to wait for Cannon Lake (not even Coffee Lake!) before you get an MBP that can do more than 16GB.
2. Na ga ha pen, especially as TB3 is as fast or faster than internal.
3. I agree that this was a genuine loss, but the compact USB3 docks that are cheap and plentiful have this and much more, so again not really much of an issue.
4. Personal taste, but I'm fine with the current keyboard. The original MB keyboard was good (bigger keys) but just a little TOO flat. This redesign in the MBPs is great (and I churn words for a living).
1. Heard it, don't care. The Windows laptop I'm typing on right now has 32GB of RAM, Apple don't get a pass because of choices they've made around Kaby Lake. A Pro machine needs to live up to its title. 2. Haven't heard a good argument for why, or any justification of the stance. Again, this is Apple's choice, they can be criticised for it, and they can change their design. 3. Not really much of an issue for you. 4. Personal taste, but I'm not.
Don't understand why you think your opinion has relevance in reply to mine. I'm not going to change my mind on the SD card or keyboard because a stranger on the internet doesn't mind/likes it.
I don't believe that Chasm is giving you much in the way of opinion. Instead, he's giving you reasons why what you're looking for probably won't happen at WWDC. Regardless if you have an opinion, Apple isn't likely to do these things, based on the previous design, philosophy, technical limitations, and other reasons.
That said, you have an opinion, he has an opinion, I have an opinion, and they combined are worth a bucket of hot spit to Cupertino.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
Yes. Seriously.
You didn't answer the question.
You should answer it before saying people are in denial.
What proof do I want? How about just saying where you got your sales figures from because when you say 'judging by sales numbers' to refute a post, you obviously based that claim on something.
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
I don't know if sales were disappointing for Apple or if they went off the scale. It's been my stance from day one but if you have some real numbers, I'm all ears.
Your reference to 'legacy' ports is also questionable. No sooner had the new MBPs been released than the Apple Defenders began calling anything that basically wasn't USB-C 'legacy'.
It was tiring then and is tiring now. At the time, more than half the Mac lineup had those so called legacy port, new, fresh out of the box. Now, almost seven months later, that is still the case and if rumours are to be believed, we may have them on the iMac right up to the end of the year!
There has been no massive shift to USB-C on USB devices and the reason is simple. The active park of USB ports are still overwhelmingly USB 3 and below and the industry continues to churn out those devices.
One of my major criticisms of the new MBP was that wholesale change to USB-C TB was unnecessary. That has been borne out in these seven months. Since release we have heard about battery life for some users not meeting expectations. Since release we have heard that Apple had a different battery design that ran into trouble and didn't make into the final product. Since release we have heard that even within Apple, the 'thinness over everything else' wasn't universally supported and that 'fat' designs were considered. Yes, it is all based on rumours but so was your original 'judging by sales numbers' claim.
I think the history books will describe the release of the current MBP line as premature.
As for next week and what will be released (if anything), I would say that if the MBP gets a refresh, one area could be the battery that supposedly didn't make it into the original release.
USB-C (the connector) IS USB 3 (the data protocol). All you need is a different USB cable (USB-C to -A or -B) if you're one of the dongle-adverse weirdos and you're fine. I'd much rather have four ports that support everything than a pile of ports that support limited things, including those which I personally never ever need.
The "different" battery design was a tiered design which I'm pretty sure would've been for a tapered/wedge-shaped case (ala the Air). They're not rejigging the internals with a totally different battery for a spec bump.
Everyone is moving on and the history books will only talk about the vocal minority of whiners who complain every time this happens, just like with the original iMac.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
Yes. Seriously.
You didn't answer the question.
You should answer it before saying people are in denial.
What proof do I want? How about just saying where you got your sales figures from because when you say 'judging by sales numbers' to refute a post, you obviously based that claim on something.
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
I don't know if sales were disappointing for Apple or if they went off the scale. It's been my stance from day one but if you have some real numbers, I'm all ears.
Your reference to 'legacy' ports is also questionable. No sooner had the new MBPs been released than the Apple Defenders began calling anything that basically wasn't USB-C 'legacy'.
It was tiring then and is tiring now. At the time, more than half the Mac lineup had those so called legacy port, new, fresh out of the box. Now, almost seven months later, that is still the case and if rumours are to be believed, we may have them on the iMac right up to the end of the year!
There has been no massive shift to USB-C on USB devices and the reason is simple. The active park of USB ports are still overwhelmingly USB 3 and below and the industry continues to churn out those devices.
One of my major criticisms of the new MBP was that wholesale change to USB-C TB was unnecessary. That has been borne out in these seven months. Since release we have heard about battery life for some users not meeting expectations. Since release we have heard that Apple had a different battery design that ran into trouble and didn't make into the final product. Since release we have heard that even within Apple, the 'thinness over everything else' wasn't universally supported and that 'fat' designs were considered. Yes, it is all based on rumours but so was your original 'judging by sales numbers' claim.
I think the history books will describe the release of the current MBP line as premature.
As for next week and what will be released (if anything), I would say that if the MBP gets a refresh, one area could be the battery that supposedly didn't make it into the original release.
USB-C (the connector) IS USB 3 (the data protocol). All you need is a different USB cable (USB-C to -A or -B) if you're one of the dongle-adverse weirdos and you're fine. I'd much rather have four ports that support everything than a pile of ports that support limited things, including those which I personally never ever need.
The "different" battery design was a tiered design which I'm pretty sure would've been for a tapered/wedge-shaped case (ala the Air). They're not rejigging the internals with a totally different battery for a spec bump.
Everyone is moving on and the history books will only talk about the vocal minority of whiners who complain every time this happens, just like with the original iMac.
Let me say it another way. USB 3.0 is not USB 3.1.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
Yes. Seriously.
You didn't answer the question.
You should answer it before saying people are in denial.
What proof do I want? How about just saying where you got your sales figures from because when you say 'judging by sales numbers' to refute a post, you obviously based that claim on something.
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
I don't know if sales were disappointing for Apple or if they went off the scale. It's been my stance from day one but if you have some real numbers, I'm all ears.
Your reference to 'legacy' ports is also questionable. No sooner had the new MBPs been released than the Apple Defenders began calling anything that basically wasn't USB-C 'legacy'.
It was tiring then and is tiring now. At the time, more than half the Mac lineup had those so called legacy port, new, fresh out of the box. Now, almost seven months later, that is still the case and if rumours are to be believed, we may have them on the iMac right up to the end of the year!
There has been no massive shift to USB-C on USB devices and the reason is simple. The active park of USB ports are still overwhelmingly USB 3 and below and the industry continues to churn out those devices.
One of my major criticisms of the new MBP was that wholesale change to USB-C TB was unnecessary. That has been borne out in these seven months. Since release we have heard about battery life for some users not meeting expectations. Since release we have heard that Apple had a different battery design that ran into trouble and didn't make into the final product. Since release we have heard that even within Apple, the 'thinness over everything else' wasn't universally supported and that 'fat' designs were considered. Yes, it is all based on rumours but so was your original 'judging by sales numbers' claim.
I think the history books will describe the release of the current MBP line as premature.
As for next week and what will be released (if anything), I would say that if the MBP gets a refresh, one area could be the battery that supposedly didn't make it into the original release.
USB-C (the connector) IS USB 3 (the data protocol).
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
Yes. Seriously.
You didn't answer the question.
You should answer it before saying people are in denial.
What proof do I want? How about just saying where you got your sales figures from because when you say 'judging by sales numbers' to refute a post, you obviously based that claim on something.
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
I don't know if sales were disappointing for Apple or if they went off the scale. It's been my stance from day one but if you have some real numbers, I'm all ears.
Your reference to 'legacy' ports is also questionable. No sooner had the new MBPs been released than the Apple Defenders began calling anything that basically wasn't USB-C 'legacy'.
It was tiring then and is tiring now. At the time, more than half the Mac lineup had those so called legacy port, new, fresh out of the box. Now, almost seven months later, that is still the case and if rumours are to be believed, we may have them on the iMac right up to the end of the year!
There has been no massive shift to USB-C on USB devices and the reason is simple. The active park of USB ports are still overwhelmingly USB 3 and below and the industry continues to churn out those devices.
One of my major criticisms of the new MBP was that wholesale change to USB-C TB was unnecessary. That has been borne out in these seven months. Since release we have heard about battery life for some users not meeting expectations. Since release we have heard that Apple had a different battery design that ran into trouble and didn't make into the final product. Since release we have heard that even within Apple, the 'thinness over everything else' wasn't universally supported and that 'fat' designs were considered. Yes, it is all based on rumours but so was your original 'judging by sales numbers' claim.
I think the history books will describe the release of the current MBP line as premature.
As for next week and what will be released (if anything), I would say that if the MBP gets a refresh, one area could be the battery that supposedly didn't make it into the original release.
USB-C (the connector) IS USB 3 (the data protocol). All you need is a different USB cable (USB-C to -A or -B) if you're one of the dongle-adverse weirdos and you're fine. I'd much rather have four ports that support everything than a pile of ports that support limited things, including those which I personally never ever need.
The "different" battery design was a tiered design which I'm pretty sure would've been for a tapered/wedge-shaped case (ala the Air). They're not rejigging the internals with a totally different battery for a spec bump.
Everyone is moving on and the history books will only talk about the vocal minority of whiners who complain every time this happens, just like with the original iMac.
Let me say it another way. USB 3.0 is not USB 3.1.
My point was there.
Huh? USB 3.1 through a USB-C connector is backward compatible with USB-3 and below on a USB-A cable. What do you mean?
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
Yes. Seriously.
You didn't answer the question.
You should answer it before saying people are in denial.
What proof do I want? How about just saying where you got your sales figures from because when you say 'judging by sales numbers' to refute a post, you obviously based that claim on something.
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
I don't know if sales were disappointing for Apple or if they went off the scale. It's been my stance from day one but if you have some real numbers, I'm all ears.
Your reference to 'legacy' ports is also questionable. No sooner had the new MBPs been released than the Apple Defenders began calling anything that basically wasn't USB-C 'legacy'.
It was tiring then and is tiring now. At the time, more than half the Mac lineup had those so called legacy port, new, fresh out of the box. Now, almost seven months later, that is still the case and if rumours are to be believed, we may have them on the iMac right up to the end of the year!
There has been no massive shift to USB-C on USB devices and the reason is simple. The active park of USB ports are still overwhelmingly USB 3 and below and the industry continues to churn out those devices.
One of my major criticisms of the new MBP was that wholesale change to USB-C TB was unnecessary. That has been borne out in these seven months. Since release we have heard about battery life for some users not meeting expectations. Since release we have heard that Apple had a different battery design that ran into trouble and didn't make into the final product. Since release we have heard that even within Apple, the 'thinness over everything else' wasn't universally supported and that 'fat' designs were considered. Yes, it is all based on rumours but so was your original 'judging by sales numbers' claim.
I think the history books will describe the release of the current MBP line as premature.
As for next week and what will be released (if anything), I would say that if the MBP gets a refresh, one area could be the battery that supposedly didn't make it into the original release.
USB-C (the connector) IS USB 3 (the data protocol).
USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.1gen1, 3.1gen2 are data transfer protocols. 480Mbps would indicate USB 2.0, by way of a USB-C connection, on that LG monitor you posted.
A USB-C device need not even use ANY USB #.# data protocol or USB power by definition. It's simply a connection system.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
1. As has been explained numerous times -- including in this article -- Kaby Lake literally CANNOT support more than 16GB of LPDDR RAM. You'll want to wait for Cannon Lake (not even Coffee Lake!) before you get an MBP that can do more than 16GB.
2. Na ga ha pen, especially as TB3 is as fast or faster than internal.
3. I agree that this was a genuine loss, but the compact USB3 docks that are cheap and plentiful have this and much more, so again not really much of an issue.
4. Personal taste, but I'm fine with the current keyboard. The original MB keyboard was good (bigger keys) but just a little TOO flat. This redesign in the MBPs is great (and I churn words for a living).
Isn't Intel trying to target Optane at DDR4 memory modules this year? Apple could use that get 32Gb Memory in similar power budget if it's ready.
215 days (ok, 224 by WWDC), would that be a record update cycle for the MacBook Pro? Certainly in recent memory.
Hoping for: 1. 32GB or more RAM option 2. Replaceable storage. 3. SD card slot. 4. Better keyboard.
2 or more of those and I'll definitely be buying.
Bringing back MagSafe in some form would be nice as well, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Well two of those items will never happen -- the consumer card slot is gone, and removable storage will never return either since it's too big and slow.
It may be unlikely, but I don't think it's impossible that the SD card slot may come back. The iMac still has it (as does the Mac mini, though that doesn't count for much), and Apple sell an SD to Lightning adaptor, and it's not obsolete technology at all. The original MacBook Air launched without an SD slot, and then was upgraded later to include one. Long shot, but not impossible.
The MacBook Pro without Touch Bar has replaceable storage. https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pro-removable-ssd/ I don't think it's at all inconceivable for Apple to ship the Touch Bar MacBook pros without soldering the storage in. In fact I'd put this at 50/50.
Still would need mass renovations to the motherboard to accommodate either thing you're talking about here -- there are other architectural differences between the 13 and 15-inch motherboards beyond just removable storage.
I don't see it happening in 220 days between the last release and WWDC. The last short-cycle on MBPs that I keep mentioning was a drop-in processor, necessitating no other motherboard change than a new BGA processor on the same board.
Maybe, but the very fact that this has been such a fast turnaround, following what was widely acknowledged as a less than warm welcome for the new form factor of the MBP (yes big sales etc etc, but press and pro reaction matters too) suggests that maybe there's been some rethinking going on. Maybe not, of course, all will be revealed on the 8th, but as one of those who found the MBPwTB underwhelming because of the compromises I'll live in hope.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Judging by sales numbers, I don't think Apple needs to change a thing. Just because a few people are loud and obnoxious about their dislike of a product doesn't mean everyone hates the laptop. If that were true, they wouldn't have the sales they have with it. I'd bet if we see anything, it will just be a CPU, maybe a GPU bump. Its too early to do anything drastic like adding legacy ports and slots.
What sales numbers are you referring to?
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
So are you saying the MacBook Pro wasn't the majority of Mac sales last quarter? its already been stated by Phil Schiller that the 2016 MacBook Pro has outsold the outgoing model. What more proof do you want? Someone is in denial! Seriously!
Yes. Seriously.
You didn't answer the question.
You should answer it before saying people are in denial.
What proof do I want? How about just saying where you got your sales figures from because when you say 'judging by sales numbers' to refute a post, you obviously based that claim on something.
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
I don't know if sales were disappointing for Apple or if they went off the scale. It's been my stance from day one but if you have some real numbers, I'm all ears.
Your reference to 'legacy' ports is also questionable. No sooner had the new MBPs been released than the Apple Defenders began calling anything that basically wasn't USB-C 'legacy'.
It was tiring then and is tiring now. At the time, more than half the Mac lineup had those so called legacy port, new, fresh out of the box. Now, almost seven months later, that is still the case and if rumours are to be believed, we may have them on the iMac right up to the end of the year!
There has been no massive shift to USB-C on USB devices and the reason is simple. The active park of USB ports are still overwhelmingly USB 3 and below and the industry continues to churn out those devices.
One of my major criticisms of the new MBP was that wholesale change to USB-C TB was unnecessary. That has been borne out in these seven months. Since release we have heard about battery life for some users not meeting expectations. Since release we have heard that Apple had a different battery design that ran into trouble and didn't make into the final product. Since release we have heard that even within Apple, the 'thinness over everything else' wasn't universally supported and that 'fat' designs were considered. Yes, it is all based on rumours but so was your original 'judging by sales numbers' claim.
I think the history books will describe the release of the current MBP line as premature.
As for next week and what will be released (if anything), I would say that if the MBP gets a refresh, one area could be the battery that supposedly didn't make it into the original release.
USB-C (the connector) IS USB 3 (the data protocol). All you need is a different USB cable (USB-C to -A or -B) if you're one of the dongle-adverse weirdos and you're fine. I'd much rather have four ports that support everything than a pile of ports that support limited things, including those which I personally never ever need.
The "different" battery design was a tiered design which I'm pretty sure would've been for a tapered/wedge-shaped case (ala the Air). They're not rejigging the internals with a totally different battery for a spec bump.
Everyone is moving on and the history books will only talk about the vocal minority of whiners who complain every time this happens, just like with the original iMac.
Let me say it another way. USB 3.0 is not USB 3.1.
My point was there.
Huh? USB 3.1 through a USB-C connector is backward compatible with USB-3 and below on a USB-A cable. What do you mean?
I mean that USB 3.0 is still being pumped out in massive numbers on devices. USB 3.1 is not because it is more expensive to implement and the park of machines with those ports is still relatively small.
Comments
No reason NOT to have a drop in spec boost. Folks bitch when Apple doesn't bother and they bitch when Apple might bother.
The only earnings call reference I have seen regarding sales of the new MBPs was 'strong'. I have seen no other mention nor numbers broken down.
I've got a 2016. I'm fine if Apple upgrades because frequent upgrades when warranted is what was promised all along with the migration to Intel, right? What I'm having problems with is the unrealistic "Apple will fix what I hate about the machine" mentality surrounding the rumors about the update, when there are no indications that the machine will have more than just Kaby Lake -- if it gets upgraded at all.
I see a lot of defense of what is profitable vs making the 'best' computers (remember x-grid?) and so is that the difference now? I still say offer pros something adjustable as professional needs require... Apple has seemingly admitted as much for the Pro. Is 'best' always quantifiable ie. fastest...
http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-products-versus-profits-2011-10
I believe Shiller promised 32GB ram for the mbp, and is that simply what is coming next...?
You didn't answer the question.
You should answer it before saying people are in denial.
What proof do I want? How about just saying where you got your sales figures from because when you say 'judging by sales numbers' to refute a post, you obviously based that claim on something.
The Phil Schiller claim was made after just one week of sales. He worded his discourse very carefully and only spoke of Apple's online sales. Apple was at the centre of probably the biggest backlash one of its recently released products had ever received and he had to come out with something to try and douse the flames. It didn't work. The criticism continued but he never followed up on his comments. They vanished into the void. He has had ample opportunity to chestbeat around the two earnings calls since then but hasn't done so. I can only remember one specific reference to sales of the new MBP. The one I mentioned ('strong').
I don't know if sales were disappointing for Apple or if they went off the scale. It's been my stance from day one but if you have some real numbers, I'm all ears.
Your reference to 'legacy' ports is also questionable. No sooner had the new MBPs been released than the Apple Defenders began calling anything that basically wasn't USB-C 'legacy'.
It was tiring then and is tiring now. At the time, more than half the Mac lineup had those so called legacy port, new, fresh out of the box. Now, almost seven months later, that is still the case and if rumours are to be believed, we may have them on the iMac right up to the end of the year!
There has been no massive shift to USB-C on USB devices and the reason is simple. The active park of USB ports are still overwhelmingly USB 3 and below and the industry continues to churn out those devices.
One of my major criticisms of the new MBP was that wholesale change to USB-C TB was unnecessary. That has been borne out in these seven months. Since release we have heard about battery life for some users not meeting expectations. Since release we have heard that Apple had a different battery design that ran into trouble and didn't make into the final product. Since release we have heard that even within Apple, the 'thinness over everything else' wasn't universally supported and that 'fat' designs were considered. Yes, it is all based on rumours but so was your original 'judging by sales numbers' claim.
I think the history books will describe the release of the current MBP line as premature.
As for next week and what will be released (if anything), I would say that if the MBP gets a refresh, one area could be the battery that supposedly didn't make it into the original release.
Secondly, if the forum whining is not actually hurting sales then making a follow-up comment is fairly pointless.
The only way to know for sure is if Apple puts back the legacy ports. I mean, if sales are suffering as much as you imply then it would be suicide not to.
The online sales comment was a risk. My personal take is that if sales had continued in the same line we would have heard about it pretty quickly, as the original criticism continued for months after his claim. The problem is that with his original claim, he was making a rod for his own back. If end of quarter sales were best ever, then fine, he could jump around Balmer style beating his chest, but if not, better not to say anything.
I think the latter is possibly the case and the 'strong' comment by TC with regards to new MBPs sales goes a little way to supporting the idea. If we throw in the rumoured refresh next week, which would be extra quick given Apple's recent history, perhaps that lends even further support to the idea.
1. Heard it, don't care. The Windows laptop I'm typing on right now has 32GB of RAM, Apple don't get a pass because of choices they've made around Kaby Lake. A Pro machine needs to live up to its title.
2. Haven't heard a good argument for why, or any justification of the stance. Again, this is Apple's choice, they can be criticised for it, and they can change their design.
3. Not really much of an issue for you.
4. Personal taste, but I'm not.
Don't understand why you think your opinion has relevance in reply to mine. I'm not going to change my mind on the SD card or keyboard because a stranger on the internet doesn't mind/likes it.
The "different" battery design was a tiered design which I'm pretty sure would've been for a tapered/wedge-shaped case (ala the Air). They're not rejigging the internals with a totally different battery for a spec bump.
Everyone is moving on and the history books will only talk about the vocal minority of whiners who complain every time this happens, just like with the original iMac.
My point was there.
Nope. See https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/HKMY2B/A/lg-ultrafine-4k-display
Nope yourself.
USB-C is the *connector/port* system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.1gen1, 3.1gen2 are data transfer protocols. 480Mbps would indicate USB 2.0, by way of a USB-C connection, on that LG monitor you posted.
A USB-C device need not even use ANY USB #.# data protocol or USB power by definition. It's simply a connection system.
Apple could use that get 32Gb Memory in similar power budget if it's ready.