Other than the import taxes, is there anything actually stopping Apple today from importing refurbs and selling them in India at discounted prices?
Yes, the Indian government.
I live in the U.S. and I've never found anything inferior about Apple refurb products, so I wonder why the Indian government doesn't want them in their country. As near as I can tell, Apple refurbs are indistinguishable from brand new products in terms of quality and reliability. I think the Indian government is stiffing Indian consumers from getting a decent bargain.
In India it is to protect entrenched corporatist corruption and extreme inefficency, in the guise of protecting their countrymen through protectionists policies.
Supposedly if you allowed those efficient external players, all those "little players" (sic) who now charge triple what they should, would lose their jobs.. Forget the fact that you have people paying those much more expensive prices and who could have more goods if they weren't so expensive and that money could be spent in a more productive way to create demand in new sectors of the economy.
You'd think those "little guys" are those at the bottom of the ladder and that there is some justification for all this, but hell no, it's the middle to top that have the most to lose here because right now there is no incentive to upgrade their crap uncompetitive factories.
'
They don't give a shit about protecting their own countrymen, they just want them to get the cut of that fleecing.
Other than the import taxes, is there anything actually stopping Apple today from importing refurbs and selling them in India at discounted prices?
Yes, the Indian government.
I live in the U.S. and I've never found anything inferior about Apple refurb products, so I wonder why the Indian government doesn't want them in their country. As near as I can tell, Apple refurbs are indistinguishable from brand new products in terms of quality and reliability. I think the Indian government is stiffing Indian consumers from getting a decent bargain.
There's a rich documented history in international trade where multinational companies have sold to many developing economies -- not just India -- a set of shoddy, stale, technologically obsolete stuff in a wide range of products including cars, sewing machines, computers, medical equipment, industrial machinery, and so on. This was endemic through the 1970s into the early part of 1980s, after which things began to change.
It is a non-issue today.
Yet, for better or worse, that experience rankles, and rankles more in some countries than in others. It is often seen and interpreted through the lens -- again, I am not making a value judgment here -- of colonialism. Even as a form of neocolonialism. So it's not surprising to see this reaction from the Indian government. It may be silly (and I think it is), but it's seen as a matter of "national pride."
Other than the import taxes, is there anything actually stopping Apple today from importing refurbs and selling them in India at discounted prices?
Yes, the Indian government.
I live in the U.S. and I've never found anything inferior about Apple refurb products, so I wonder why the Indian government doesn't want them in their country. As near as I can tell, Apple refurbs are indistinguishable from brand new products in terms of quality and reliability. I think the Indian government is stiffing Indian consumers from getting a decent bargain.
There's a rich documented history in international trade where multinational companies have sold to many developing economies -- not just India -- a set of shoddy, stale, technologically obsolete stuff in a wide range of products including cars, sewing machines, computers, medical equipment, industrial machinery, and so on. This was endemic through the 1970s into the early part of 1980s, after which things began to change.
It is a non-issue today.
Yet, for better or worse, that experience rankles, and rankles more in some countries than in others. It is often seen and interpreted through the lens -- again, I am not making a value judgment here -- of colonialism. Even as a form of neocolonialism. So it's not surprising to see this reaction from the Indian government. It may be silly (and I think it is), but it's seen as a matter of "national pride."
I hear it more like playing the "national pride" angle/"small tiny violin playing tiny tune" as a handy justification for their own pocket lining.
I think the same thing I think everytime this kind of angle is brought up, in the US, Canada or anywhere else (everyone has their own version); India and a few others are just a more egregious and extreme cases.
Apple doesn't face any uphill battle, its still the most aspired brand. The problem iOS might face is getting the government service apps operational on the platform. I have a mac-mini and a MacBook air and surely the next apple purchase will be an iPhone. Apple will do well to launch stores in smaller cities, because most of the iPhone owners in the big cities are well traveled, almost everyone I know got their iPhone overseas, the launch was delayed in India and these people being die hard fans wouldn't wait.
India has a long history of blocking refurbished crap, that is the reason we have a manufacturing base for all sorts of automobiles. Apple phones aren't cheap anywhere and not getting an iPhone easily is a first world problem, Apple still sells the iPhone 5s here, and its popular, its the brand, not the functionality that matters to most customers. The apple exclusive stores are probably the worst places to buy Apple products, lousy arrogant salespeople, that behavior was what made me buy both my apple products(and the mouse and keyboard) from online stores, at better prices. India doesn't lose anything by not having Apple stores in the country.
Apple's bigger challenge in India is not price. It is that Apple's ecosystem of services that make the iPhone so valuable elsewhere are simply not relevant in India. You cannot use Apple Pay. Most Indian content is simply not there in iTunes. Apple Maps is not at all usable in India. iCloud data centers are not active in India, whereas Google and Amazon have started making decent headway in terms of locating the data center nearer to the end user.
None of these challenges have anything to do with government policies. But the reality is that with a small installed base, investing the money needed to crack these problems doesn't make sense to Apple at the moment. And without these ecosystem aspects sorted out, the iPhone is not nearly as valuable as it is for US consumers.
Why on earth would Indians buy a product that is overpriced, and where you get lesser usability?
Apple's Mac Mini used to be a favourite with the developer community in India, with it being easy to buy the cheapest version, and upgrade RAM to 16GB to get a powerful development machine. However, Apple shot itself in the foot by making the RAM as a soldered - and totally crippled its own sales. On the contrary, Microsoft is activiely wooing developers with Xamarin as a better option to build iOS apps, on regular Windows laptops, using Xamarin Live Player.
Other than the import taxes, is there anything actually stopping Apple today from importing refurbs and selling them in India at discounted prices?
Are you implying "sell the refurbished ones as brand new at a discounted price" without letting the Indian government (and customers) know about it? Just want to understand your question correctly before commenting on it.
Why would you think that? Apple has a well-earned reputation for honesty and value in its sales. Why would it suddenly start cheating people in a most egregious (and obvious) way? You're "loaded for bear." (Looking to pick a fight.)
I know very well about Apple's value system and that Apple would not even consider this as an option. If you read my post carefully, it was a "question" to @adm1, not what I think of Apple. No - I am not looking to pick a fight. I just asked a question, to make sure that I understood it correctly, before replying to the post with my own viewpoint. If I were to pick a fight, I would have assumed something on my own and posted something even without understanding his question.
Other than the import taxes, is there anything actually stopping Apple today from importing refurbs and selling them in India at discounted prices?
Are you implying "sell the refurbished ones as brand new at a discounted price" without letting the Indian government (and customers) know about it? Just want to understand your question correctly before commenting on it.
Why would you think that? Apple has a well-earned reputation for honesty and value in its sales. Why would it suddenly start cheating people in a most egregious (and obvious) way? You're "loaded for bear." (Looking to pick a fight.)
I know very well about Apple's value system and that Apple would not even consider this as an option. If you read my post carefully, it was a "question" to @adm1, not what I think of Apple. No - I am not looking to pick a fight. I just asked a question, to make sure that I understood it correctly, before replying to the post with my own viewpoint. If I were to pick a fight, I would have assumed something on my own and posted something even without understanding his question.
No, I meant selling them as "refurbished" as is done elsewhere for ipads/macs/appletv's etc. Purely as a cheaper option to the brand new devices.
Other than the import taxes, is there anything actually stopping Apple today from importing refurbs and selling them in India at discounted prices?
Are you implying "sell the refurbished ones as brand new at a discounted price" without letting the Indian government (and customers) know about it? Just want to understand your question correctly before commenting on it.
Why would you think that? Apple has a well-earned reputation for honesty and value in its sales. Why would it suddenly start cheating people in a most egregious (and obvious) way? You're "loaded for bear." (Looking to pick a fight.)
I know very well about Apple's value system and that Apple would not even consider this as an option. If you read my post carefully, it was a "question" to @adm1, not what I think of Apple. No - I am not looking to pick a fight. I just asked a question, to make sure that I understood it correctly, before replying to the post with my own viewpoint. If I were to pick a fight, I would have assumed something on my own and posted something even without understanding his question.
No, I meant selling them as "refurbished" as is done elsewhere for ipads/macs/appletv's etc. Purely as a cheaper option to the brand new devices.
Ok, Thank you for the clarification. As @LKrupp mentioned already, Indian government does not allow it. And the reason for that decision has been explained by others in this forum.
Comments
It is a non-issue today.
Yet, for better or worse, that experience rankles, and rankles more in some countries than in others. It is often seen and interpreted through the lens -- again, I am not making a value judgment here -- of colonialism. Even as a form of neocolonialism. So it's not surprising to see this reaction from the Indian government. It may be silly (and I think it is), but it's seen as a matter of "national pride."
I have a mac-mini and a MacBook air and surely the next apple purchase will be an iPhone. Apple will do well to launch stores in smaller cities, because most of the iPhone owners in the big cities are well traveled, almost everyone I know got their iPhone overseas, the launch was delayed in India and these people being die hard fans wouldn't wait.
India has a long history of blocking refurbished crap, that is the reason we have a manufacturing base for all sorts of automobiles. Apple phones aren't cheap anywhere and not getting an iPhone easily is a first world problem, Apple still sells the iPhone 5s here, and its popular, its the brand, not the functionality that matters to most customers. The apple exclusive stores are probably the worst places to buy Apple products, lousy arrogant salespeople, that behavior was what made me buy both my apple products(and the mouse and keyboard) from online stores, at better prices. India doesn't lose anything by not having Apple stores in the country.
None of these challenges have anything to do with government policies. But the reality is that with a small installed base, investing the money needed to crack these problems doesn't make sense to Apple at the moment. And without these ecosystem aspects sorted out, the iPhone is not nearly as valuable as it is for US consumers.
Why on earth would Indians buy a product that is overpriced, and where you get lesser usability?
Apple's Mac Mini used to be a favourite with the developer community in India, with it being easy to buy the cheapest version, and upgrade RAM to 16GB to get a powerful development machine. However, Apple shot itself in the foot by making the RAM as a soldered - and totally crippled its own sales. On the contrary, Microsoft is activiely wooing developers with Xamarin as a better option to build iOS apps, on regular Windows laptops, using Xamarin Live Player.
I know very well about Apple's value system and that Apple would not even consider this as an option. If you read my post carefully, it was a "question" to @adm1, not what I think of Apple. No - I am not looking to pick a fight. I just asked a question, to make sure that I understood it correctly, before replying to the post with my own viewpoint. If I were to pick a fight, I would have assumed something on my own and posted something even without understanding his question.
Ok, Thank you for the clarification. As @LKrupp mentioned already, Indian government does not allow it. And the reason for that decision has been explained by others in this forum.