US Customs says it can search iPhones, but not cloud services

245

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 93
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,507member
    I avoid all this by taking no cell phone and no computing devices with me for overseas travel.

    The laws will eventually REQUIRE your total compliance anyway, mark my words. Just avoid the mess.
    edited July 2017 transmaster
  • Reply 22 of 93
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,382member
    lmac said:
    If this comes to pass, I'm writing a big fat check to the ACLU, putting my phone in my checked bag, and disabling the fingerprint activation. And no, I've got nothing to hide.
    Just turn it off before you get to customs instead of altering Settings. Especially having to re-do all your fingerprints again.
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 23 of 93
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,382member
    spice-boy said:
    Would wiping a phone before flying (after an encrypted backup to iCloud) solve the problem of a search? 
    Of course, but that has its own issues.

    For example, let’s say you get to your foreign destination and now have to restore your iDevice. If his is happening from a hotel which could be a potential problem.

    I’d say you a complex passphrase using all character types (4 characters is over a billion combinations in iOS) as a default and just turn off the device, use the wrong finger a few times that it require the password, and disable lock screen notifications.
  • Reply 24 of 93
    mike1mike1 Posts: 1,947member
    lmac said:
    gatorguy said:
    lmac said:
    If this comes to pass, I'm writing a big fat check to the ACLU, putting my phone in my checked bag, and disabling the fingerprint activation. And no, I've got nothing to hide.
    If you are a US citizen coming home you will be allowed re-entry but your smartphone may not be, seized for further inspection if you refuse to unlock it on request. If a foreign resident US Border agents may simply deny entry to you and send you away. Both are of course by your choice. 
    Without probable cause, this is an illegal search, and nothing more than a fishing expedition. Challenge it. We only have a right to privacy if we fight for it.
    Option 1: What smartphone? I don't own one.
    Option 2: Forgot my password. Oops. My bad.
    Option 3: Use a cheap burner when crossing international borders.
    Option 4: If enough citizens say "go ahead, seize my phone, I'm not unlocking it even though there's nothing on it of value to you" it will completely bury them and stop this stupidity.
    Exactly.  The "without probably cause" element of this is patently outrageous.  Yes, if they have a legitimate reason to be believe that I'm a terrorist or engaging in a criminal act, then there should be a way for them to search my phone.  But reading my email, checking out my photos, reading my documents just because they feel like it?  Fourth amendment violation, pure and simple.  I hope that if this happens to me that I'll have the guts to refuse to unlock my phone.  Then afterwards I'll seek assistance for a law suit for their illegal seizure of my stuff.
    Right idea, wrong argument. Probable cause is not necessary. Is walking through the metal detector an illegal search too? Are explosive-sniffing dogs at ball games illegal? There needs to be a reason why inspecting everybody's phone is beneficial. I haven't looked, but I would bet there is some sort of implied consent statement when you are applying for a passport.
  • Reply 25 of 93
    zonezone Posts: 53member
    No probable cause, no warrant, no way!

    This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple. 

    Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.

    Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...


    - Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."

    - Bicycles "
    In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."

    - 300,000 Americans die of obesity every year.

    - 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.

    - 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.

    - Drowning 2000

    - Poisoning 39,000

    - Fires 2700

    Chocking 2500

    So sad!


    longpathviclauyyckamilton
  • Reply 26 of 93
    mytdavemytdave Posts: 438member
    I'm sorry, no, you cannot search my phone without a valid, signed warrant... Until then, you can kiss my a$$.
  • Reply 27 of 93
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,382member
    zone said:
    No probable cause, no warrant, no way!

    This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple. 

    Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.

    Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...


    - Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."

    - Bicycles "In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."

    - 300,000 Americans die of obesity every year.

    - 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.

    - 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.

    - Drowning 2000

    - Poisoning 39,000

    - Fires 2700

    Chocking 2500

    So sad!
    Add in there firearm accidents and/or domestic violence and you'll upset a lot of people.
    longpathviclauyycspheric
  • Reply 28 of 93
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,302member
    zone said:
    No probable cause, no warrant, no way!

    This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple. 

    Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.

    Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...


    - Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."

    - Bicycles "In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."

    - 300,000 Americans die of obesity every year.

    - 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.

    - 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.

    - Drowning 2000

    - Poisoning 39,000

    - Fires 2700

    Chocking 2500

    So sad!


    No idea where you got your figures. it amounts to fake math. Nearly 50 were killed in the Pulse Nightclub attack alone. Your figure is so ridiculously far off-base it's not even worth considering in your argument.
    http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html

    But for giggles even if you were close (it is not) the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them. You think it would improve things to deny them the tools? 


    edited July 2017 mike1
  • Reply 29 of 93
    lmaclmac Posts: 196member
    gatorguy said:
    Personally I think that in nearly every case if they take the time and make the effort to search anyone's phone there is cause to do so. According to the Border Patrol VERY few travelers have been singled out. The ones that were raised attention IMO and thus "just cause". 
    What if they decide that anyone with a big beard, or wearing a turban, or a political t-shirt, or who isn't white is a suspicious person? There need to be rules, and the rules need to be public. "According to the Border Patrol, the Border Patrol isn't doing anything wrong." is kind of a shaky argument.
  • Reply 30 of 93
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    lmac said:
    I've got nothing to hide.
    Repeat after me, "I love Big Brother."
  • Reply 31 of 93
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,302member
    lmac said:
    gatorguy said:
    Personally I think that in nearly every case if they take the time and make the effort to search anyone's phone there is cause to do so. According to the Border Patrol VERY few travelers have been singled out. The ones that were raised attention IMO and thus "just cause". 
    What if they decide that anyone with a big beard, or wearing a turban, or a political t-shirt, or who isn't white is a suspicious person? There need to be rules, and the rules need to be public. "According to the Border Patrol, the Border Patrol isn't doing anything wrong." is kind of a shaky argument.
    I guess anything, no matter how ridiculous or unlikely, is still possible. But as the article points out there are rules, even if some are not public. 
  • Reply 32 of 93
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    mike1 said:
    Right idea, wrong argument. Probable cause is not necessary.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Hmm…
    There needs to be a reason why inspecting everybody's phone is beneficial.
    And there isn't one.
    longpathrandominternetperson
  • Reply 33 of 93
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,302member
    There needs to be a reason why inspecting everybody's phone is beneficial.
    And there isn't one.
    You are correct. That's one reason why they don't. :)
    edited July 2017
  • Reply 34 of 93
    spice-boy said:
    Would wiping a phone before flying (after an encrypted backup to iCloud) solve the problem of a search? 
    This. Wipe your phone and restore it at a Starbucks on wifi after you cross the border.
  • Reply 35 of 93
    designrdesignr Posts: 540member
    I power down my devices before entering customs. No way I am letting them search my phone and computer willingly. The biggest problem with their "search" is that it has been reported that they backup your device once you unlock it. 
    I think this is the right and simple solution (well, other than not having a police state...but one step at a time).
    toysandme
  • Reply 36 of 93
    joogabahjoogabah Posts: 118member
    his organization issued guidelines reminding agents about the issue -- but he has also refused to make the guidelines public, stating that they're "law enforcement sensitive."

    ...when law enforcement won’t disclose the laws they’re enforcing, we have problems. this isn’t how a free and open society works. These bozos seem to forget they work for us. Government is for the people, not for itself. 
    This is a class based market economy.  Government is for the ruling class.   They know capitalism progressively increases social inequality and they haven't forgotten the 20th century.  
  • Reply 37 of 93
    joogabahjoogabah Posts: 118member
    gatorguy said:
    zone said:
    No probable cause, no warrant, no way!

    This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple. 

    Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.

    Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...


    - Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."

    - Bicycles "In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."

    - 300,000 Americans die of obesity every year.

    - 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.

    - 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.

    - Drowning 2000

    - Poisoning 39,000

    - Fires 2700

    Chocking 2500

    So sad!


    No idea where you got your figures. it amounts to fake math. Nearly 50 were killed in the Pulse Nightclub attack alone. Your figure is so ridiculously far off-base it's not even worth considering in your argument.
    http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html

    But for giggles even if you were close (it is not) the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them. You think it would improve things to deny them the tools? 


    Are you really that you enthusiastic about the government spying on everyone or are you posting directly from the NSA?
    toysandmebrucemcspheric
  • Reply 38 of 93
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    joogabah said:
    They know capitalism progressively increases social inequality and they haven't forgotten the 20th century.  
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, fuck, I needed that. Really bad day today. You just made it so much better.
    Soli said:
    Add in there firearm accidents and/or domestic violence and you'll upset a lot of people.
    Educate yourself or continue looking like a court jester. Makes me no nevermind, I guess.
    edited July 2017 designr
  • Reply 39 of 93
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,298member
    Buy a cheap older used iPhone, put only the bare essentials on it, swap in your SIM card. Call it your Go Phone and put it in your go bag. 
  • Reply 40 of 93
    technotechno Posts: 707member
    gatorguy said:
    ... IMHO At the end of the day the only ones with a worry for the foreseeable future are those folks who who seem to be out to cause harm but not be discovered and suffer the consequences. Yes the law enforcement agencies may be protecting your rights to safety and security while depriving certain individuals of the chance to take it from you. I don't personally see the issue with that. If someone does I think they may suffer from a grandiose view of their own importance.
    Or perhaps some people place a higher value on our rights than you do.
    tallest skilpscooter63brucemcviclauyyc
Sign In or Register to comment.