Personally I think that in nearly every case if they take the time and make the effort to search anyone's phone there is cause to do so. According to the Border Patrol VERY few travelers have been singled out. The ones that were raised attention IMO and thus "just cause".
What if they decide that anyone with a big beard, or wearing a turban, or a political t-shirt, or who isn't white is a suspicious person? There need to be rules, and the rules need to be public. "According to the Border Patrol, the Border Patrol isn't doing anything wrong." is kind of a shaky argument.
I guess anything, no matter how ridiculous or unlikely, is still possible. But as the article points out there are rules, even if some are not public.
Rules is not law. Anyone from a family to a company to a association can make their rule. But they are not law binding. Thus cannot enforce by authorities. A law enforcement agency can setup their own rules. Because the agency should one enforce the law. Otherwise, they become a law maker and enforcer. Like USSR or China.
This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple.
Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.
Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...
- Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."
- Bicycles "In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."
- 300,000Americans die of obesity every year.
- 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.
- 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.
- Drowning 2000
- Poisoning 39,000
- Fires 2700
Chocking 2500
So sad!
This is the most rational perspective. Protecting Americans? Rationally, you simply choose the greatest threat(s) and apply resources accordingly. The rest is BS.
gatorguy said: [...] the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them.
Is the difference the result of law enforcement resources and practices, or is it just that the long distance and oceans between hostile territories and the United States make it expensive and inconvenient for foreigners to pop in and blow things up?
It's mostly the fact that the vast majority of terrorism perpetrated in the US is domestic, home-grown terrorism that can also be classified as "gun violence", where it is conveniently ignored as a Basic 'Murrican Right.
gatorguy said: [...] the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them.
Is the difference the result of law enforcement resources and practices, or is it just that the long distance and oceans between hostile territories and the United States make it expensive and inconvenient for foreigners to pop in and blow things up?
It's a function of both. We get fewer legal and illegal refugees and we do more regarding security. In general we're a harder target than any of the EU countries with porous borders and larger Muslim populations to hide bad actors.
But ultimately any country is just a plane flight away.
Plus, if an Islamist wanted to kill Americans, for over a decade we've provided them with plenty of (hard) targets in the Middle East. No need to travel to do so.
This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple.
Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.
Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...
- Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."
- Bicycles "In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."
- 300,000Americans die of obesity every year.
- 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.
- 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.
- Drowning 2000
- Poisoning 39,000
- Fires 2700
Chocking 2500
So sad!
No idea where you got your figures. it amounts to fake math. Nearly 50 were killed in the Pulse Nightclub attack alone. Your figure is so ridiculously far off-base it's not even worth considering in your argument. http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html
But for giggles even if you were close (it is not) the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them. You think it would improve things to deny them the tools?
Are you really that you enthusiastic about the government spying on everyone or are you posting directly from the NSA?
One day he is a google employee, another day he is an EU employee, yet another day he is an employee of NSA - why can't people in this forum post without attacking anyone personally or at least without questioning their personal identity?
I don't see how the U.S. Government has any right to search a U.S. Citizen's phone. Terrorists and Child porn, really? That's the same old weak ass excuse.
I'll say right now, if I was coming back into the U.S. my phone would be wiped! I would backup the phone before I left out of the country. Any pictures I took would be backed up into the cloud, both iCloud and Amazon Pictures. Once that was done, WIPE! Back to stock. I'd let it learn my Fingerprint and turn on activation lock. But using new password that is not used for anything else. Once home, restore my phone.
F them all for this unconstitutional B.S.
This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple.
Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.
Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...
- Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."
- Bicycles "In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."
- 300,000Americans die of obesity every year.
- 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.
- 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.
- Drowning 2000
- Poisoning 39,000
- Fires 2700
Chocking 2500
So sad!
No idea where you got your figures. it amounts to fake math. Nearly 50 were killed in the Pulse Nightclub attack alone. Your figure is so ridiculously far off-base it's not even worth considering in your argument. http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html
But for giggles even if you were close (it is not) the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them. You think it would improve things to deny them the tools?
Typical uninformed paranoid government takeover advocate... talking about deaths in the USA. Not overseas? Yikes, you must be a Republican and work for Trump? So you in favor than for us to give up our right to protect us from almost a non-existent threat. You do realize that all is this is used to promote a agenda and that agenda is for you to have no right and freedom in the name of security.
One day he is a google employee, another day he is an EU employee, yet another day he is an employee of NSA - why can't people in this forum post without attacking anyone personally or at least without questioning their personal identity?
Oh, they do–and have. That gatorguy is so consistently on the receiving end of the ire (and corrections) of such a diverse group has called many in that group to question his reason for being here and purpose in life. It's a natural consequence of him being wrong so often. Even though many users of this site are liberals, they still won't use character assassinations unless it's something political they're discussing. Most AI posters are extremely well-reasoned individuals. And that's why they question GG's job.
For example, a long time ago, back when Steve Jobs shot Adobe in the leg and forced them to amputate the gangrenous limb that was Flash, we had Adobe employees posting here–pretending not to be–and shilling for Flash. They were too dumb to change their IP addresses from the Adobe corporate headquarters. So it certainly happens.
This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple.
Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.
Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...
- Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."
- Bicycles "In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."
- 300,000Americans die of obesity every year.
- 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.
- 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.
- Drowning 2000
- Poisoning 39,000
- Fires 2700
Chocking 2500
So sad!
No idea where you got your figures. it amounts to fake math. Nearly 50 were killed in the Pulse Nightclub attack alone. Your figure is so ridiculously far off-base it's not even worth considering in your argument. http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html
But for giggles even if you were close (it is not) the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them. You think it would improve things to deny them the tools?
Typical uninformed paranoid government takeover advocate... talking about deaths in the USA. Not overseas? Yikes, you must be a Republican and work for Trump? So you in favor than for us to give up our right to protect us from almost a non-existent threat. You do realize that all is this is used to promote a agenda and that agenda is for you to have no right and freedom in the name of security.
Last time I checked Orlando was in the US. The problem with zealots, left or right, is that they tend to ignore facts and get all defensive when very obvious mistakes are pointed out. Trump does this a lot but it's also an ultra liberal thing too.
It takes away from the point you had when you get all defensive when someone points out that the Pulse Nightclub attack resulted in 49 deaths...or 19 more than what you claimed happened since 2001. A rational person would have said "Oh yeah, my bad. The corrected figures are X." as opposed to engaging in a wierd ad-hom.
I guess pigs are flying since I'm defending Gatorguy. This unnatural behavior is why this stuff should be in Political Outsider.
*sniffs nose once in awkward silence* *looks around for someone else to slap him the fuck down* *nothing* Fine, I'll do it. Again.
By the way, it's a basic human right, you fucking bigot.
Nah. Only the US, Guatemala and Mexico has the RTBA in their constitutions. If it is a basic right then the vast majority of democracies are doing it wrong.
That may or may not be true but certainly it is reasonably debatable whether or not its a basic right.
One day he is a google employee, another day he is an EU employee, yet another day he is an employee of NSA - why can't people in this forum post without attacking anyone personally or at least without questioning their personal identity?
Oh, they do–and have. That gatorguy is so consistently on the receiving end of the ire (and corrections) of such a diverse group has called many in that group to question his reason for being here and purpose in life. It's a natural consequence of him being wrong so often. Even though many users of this site are liberals, they still won't use character assassinations unless it's something political they're discussing. Most AI posters are extremely well-reasoned individuals. And that's why they question GG's job.
For example, a long time ago, back when Steve Jobs shot Adobe in the leg and forced them to amputate the gangrenous limb that was Flash, we had Adobe employees posting here–pretending not to be–and shilling for Flash. They were too dumb to change their IP addresses from the Adobe corporate headquarters. So it certainly happens.
....except you should know better TS since you went thru the whole exercise with me when you were a moderator for a short time. You clearly understood the reasoning then and should still.
Anyway if my facts were "wrong" so often those replying would not have to resort to ad-homs instead of logical counter-arguments and corrections. Now if it's an opinion of mine, yeah, I certainly wouldn't expect universal agreement, nor would there be with anyone else's opinion TS. But just because several folks don't agree with you does it mean you're automatically wrong? If so then you're wrong a lot aren't you, but we already know that's not true.
gatorguy said: [...] the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them.
Is the difference the result of law enforcement resources and practices, or is it just that the long distance and oceans between hostile territories and the United States make it expensive and inconvenient for foreigners to pop in and blow things up?
It's a function of both. We get fewer legal and illegal refugees and we do more regarding security. In general we're a harder target than any of the EU countries with porous borders and larger Muslim populations to hide bad actors.
But ultimately any country is just a plane flight away.
Plus, if an Islamist wanted to kill Americans, for over a decade we've provided them with plenty of (hard) targets in the Middle East. No need to travel to do so.
Canada has quite welcoming immigration and refugee policies and a multi-cultural population, yet doesn't seem to have a serious terrorism problem. That might contradict the assertion that immigration policy has much influence on terrorism.
Canada has quite welcoming immigration and refugee policies and a multi-cultural population, yet doesn't seem to have a serious terrorism problem. That might contradict the assertion that immigration policy has much influence on terrorism.
Please fucking tell me that you're joking. Please oh fucking please tell me this is a joke.
gatorguy said: [...] the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them.
Is the difference the result of law enforcement resources and practices, or is it just that the long distance and oceans between hostile territories and the United States make it expensive and inconvenient for foreigners to pop in and blow things up?
It's a function of both. We get fewer legal and illegal refugees and we do more regarding security. In general we're a harder target than any of the EU countries with porous borders and larger Muslim populations to hide bad actors.
But ultimately any country is just a plane flight away.
Plus, if an Islamist wanted to kill Americans, for over a decade we've provided them with plenty of (hard) targets in the Middle East. No need to travel to do so.
Canada has quite welcoming immigration and refugee policies and a multi-cultural population, yet doesn't seem to have a serious terrorism problem. That might contradict the assertion that immigration policy has much influence on terrorism.
Um, 35K Syrian refugees in Canada vs 14K in the US vs 350K in Germany.
There's a significant difference between the problems the EU faces and what we in the US and Canada face due to the sheer numbers alone.
Quite welcoming is 350K and not 35K. You accepted 350K Hong Kong residents and I recall quite a few "unwelcoming" commentary regarding that.
This is how the system is set up and if they want in then they need to do it legally. It's that simple.
Why do people give away their freedoms and rights for FAKE security? The Terrorist Threat in almost nonexistent and not worth your freedoms and our money. We spend billions for security to protect us from absolutely nothing when it comes to this statistically. It's all FAKE and agenda driven. Here a list of thing that REALLY kill American's so maybe we should ban these things. How many people die from T in the USA each year? Almost none. Only 30 people have died from terrorism since 2001. More Americans have died from squirrel and raccoon attacks than have died from terrorism since 9/11.
Let's do the math... 30 people since 9/11 is less than 2 people a year. If you include 9/11 it's 178 a year. Still way less...
- Slip and Falls "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), over one million Americans suffer a slip, trip, and fall injury and over 17, 000 people die in the U.S. annually because of these injuries."
- Bicycles "In 2015 in the United States, over 1,000 bicyclists died and there were almost 467,000 bicycle-related injuries."
- 300,000Americans die of obesity every year.
- 40,000 Americans per year die of car accidents.
- 550,000 Americans per year die of cancer.
- Drowning 2000
- Poisoning 39,000
- Fires 2700
Chocking 2500
So sad!
No idea where you got your figures. it amounts to fake math. Nearly 50 were killed in the Pulse Nightclub attack alone. Your figure is so ridiculously far off-base it's not even worth considering in your argument. http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html
But for giggles even if you were close (it is not) the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them. You think it would improve things to deny them the tools?
Typical uninformed paranoid government takeover advocate... talking about deaths in the USA. Not overseas? Yikes, you must be a Republican and work for Trump? So you in favor than for us to give up our right to protect us from almost a non-existent threat. You do realize that all is this is used to promote a agenda and that agenda is for you to have no right and freedom in the name of security.
Last time I checked Orlando was in the US. The problem with zealots, left or right, is that they tend to ignore facts and get all defensive when very obvious mistakes are pointed out. Trump does this a lot but it's also an ultra liberal thing too.
It takes away from the point you had when you get all defensive when someone points out that the Pulse Nightclub attack resulted in 49 deaths...or 19 more than what you claimed happened since 2001. A rational person would have said "Oh yeah, my bad. The corrected figures are X." as opposed to engaging in a wierd ad-hom.
I guess pigs are flying since I'm defending Gatorguy. This unnatural behavior is why this stuff should be in Political Outsider.
I don't need perfect facts. The point is valid. It doesn't matter how many attacks there have been or if my death numbers by other things are perfect. It still holds true...
I'll repeat it slowly for you. The number of deaths in the USA from terrorism doesn't justify ALL OUR RIGHTS being infringed on so you can FEEL protected from FAKE THREATS statistically. I am not saying it never happened (one can potentially argue that some of these were and are false flag operations) but these deaths are about as likely as death from an asteroid hitting you in the head. It almost never happens. However, it sure is easy to sell and gets lots of attention when it does.
How many people died today on their way to work? How many people died today eating their lunch at work. So on and so on...
gatorguy said: [...] the relative sparseness of major events in the US as compared to Europe for instance is testament to the excellent work of our policing agencies (FBI/CIA/NSA/Local agencies) made possible by the tools they have available to them.
Is the difference the result of law enforcement resources and practices, or is it just that the long distance and oceans between hostile territories and the United States make it expensive and inconvenient for foreigners to pop in and blow things up?
It's a function of both. We get fewer legal and illegal refugees and we do more regarding security. In general we're a harder target than any of the EU countries with porous borders and larger Muslim populations to hide bad actors.
But ultimately any country is just a plane flight away.
Plus, if an Islamist wanted to kill Americans, for over a decade we've provided them with plenty of (hard) targets in the Middle East. No need to travel to do so.
Canada has quite welcoming immigration and refugee policies and a multi-cultural population, yet doesn't seem to have a serious terrorism problem. That might contradict the assertion that immigration policy has much influence on terrorism.
Um, 35K Syrian refugees in Canada vs 14K in the US vs 350K in Germany.
There's a significant difference between the problems the EU faces and what we in the US and Canada face due to the sheer numbers alone.
Quite welcoming is 350K and not 35K. You accepted 350K Hong Kong residents and I recall quite a few "unwelcoming" commentary regarding that.
Just to clarify (not being snarky): are you saying that with increased numbers of Syrian refugees comes an increase in terrorism?
[...] You accepted 350K Hong Kong residents and I recall quite a few "unwelcoming" commentary regarding that.
I'm no expert on the matter and I don't even know if other Canadians would share my opinions, but my take on what caused friction during the HK influx was the development of a sub-community that didn't seem particularly interested in integrating or interacting with other groups. That's atypical in our experience. While people from other countries maintain a strong cultural identity, there's almost always been a desire for that culture to become a component of a larger, inclusive "group of groups." This has been true as long as I've been alive, growing up in neighbourhoods with large Indian and Pakistani communities, through the Vietnamese refugees of the '70s, and including the refugees from Syria.
As for terrorism, ours seems to be perpetrated by home-grown locals. I can think of one incident that involved immigrants, but it was Indians, not middle-easterners.
Comments
A law enforcement agency can setup their own rules. Because the agency should one enforce the law. Otherwise, they become a law maker and enforcer. Like USSR or China.
Fixed.
Such irony.
But ultimately any country is just a plane flight away.
Plus, if an Islamist wanted to kill Americans, for over a decade we've provided them with plenty of (hard) targets in the Middle East. No need to travel to do so.
One day he is a google employee, another day he is an EU employee, yet another day he is an employee of NSA - why can't people in this forum post without attacking anyone personally or at least without questioning their personal identity?
*looks around for someone else to slap him the fuck down*
*nothing*
Fine, I'll do it. Again.
By the way, it's a basic human right, you fucking bigot.
Oh, they do–and have. That gatorguy is so consistently on the receiving end of the ire (and corrections) of such a diverse group has called many in that group to question his reason for being here and purpose in life. It's a natural consequence of him being wrong so often. Even though many users of this site are liberals, they still won't use character assassinations unless it's something political they're discussing. Most AI posters are extremely well-reasoned individuals. And that's why they question GG's job.
For example, a long time ago, back when Steve Jobs shot Adobe in the leg and forced them to amputate the gangrenous limb that was Flash, we had Adobe employees posting here–pretending not to be–and shilling for Flash. They were too dumb to change their IP addresses from the Adobe corporate headquarters. So it certainly happens.
It takes away from the point you had when you get all defensive when someone points out that the Pulse Nightclub attack resulted in 49 deaths...or 19 more than what you claimed happened since 2001. A rational person would have said "Oh yeah, my bad. The corrected figures are X." as opposed to engaging in a wierd ad-hom.
I guess pigs are flying since I'm defending Gatorguy. This unnatural behavior is why this stuff should be in Political Outsider.
Nah. Only the US, Guatemala and Mexico has the RTBA in their constitutions. If it is a basic right then the vast majority of democracies are doing it wrong.
That may or may not be true but certainly it is reasonably debatable whether or not its a basic right.
Anyway if my facts were "wrong" so often those replying would not have to resort to ad-homs instead of logical counter-arguments and corrections. Now if it's an opinion of mine, yeah, I certainly wouldn't expect universal agreement, nor would there be with anyone else's opinion TS. But just because several folks don't agree with you does it mean you're automatically wrong? If so then you're wrong a lot aren't you, but we already know that's not true.
2. You don't seem to comprehend what natural law is or the fact that rights aren't given to you by a fucking piece of paper.
It is, and they are doing it wrong. That's also why they're democracies. Go appeal to majority somewhere else.
Not to any sane individual, no, it is not in any way debatable. I will prove this.
Is innocent life valuable?
Please fucking tell me that you're joking. Please oh fucking please tell me this is a joke.
There's a significant difference between the problems the EU faces and what we in the US and Canada face due to the sheer numbers alone.
Quite welcoming is 350K and not 35K. You accepted 350K Hong Kong residents and I recall quite a few "unwelcoming" commentary regarding that.
I'll repeat it slowly for you. The number of deaths in the USA from terrorism doesn't justify ALL OUR RIGHTS being infringed on so you can FEEL protected from FAKE THREATS statistically. I am not saying it never happened (one can potentially argue that some of these were and are false flag operations) but these deaths are about as likely as death from an asteroid hitting you in the head. It almost never happens. However, it sure is easy to sell and gets lots of attention when it does.
How many people died today on their way to work? How many people died today eating their lunch at work. So on and so on...
I'm no expert on the matter and I don't even know if other Canadians would share my opinions, but my take on what caused friction during the HK influx was the development of a sub-community that didn't seem particularly interested in integrating or interacting with other groups. That's atypical in our experience. While people from other countries maintain a strong cultural identity, there's almost always been a desire for that culture to become a component of a larger, inclusive "group of groups." This has been true as long as I've been alive, growing up in neighbourhoods with large Indian and Pakistani communities, through the Vietnamese refugees of the '70s, and including the refugees from Syria.
As for terrorism, ours seems to be perpetrated by home-grown locals. I can think of one incident that involved immigrants, but it was Indians, not middle-easterners.