Apple's 'iPhone 8' may do facial recognition while laying on tables & desks

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    jdwjdw Posts: 742member
    I have little doubt that Apple's implementation of facial recognition -- not to mention wireless charging and the new TouchID -- will be well beyond our conceptualizations or current comprehension of it, and will leave the competition scratching its collective head...
    Like the removal the SD card slot from the late 2016 and 2017 MacBook "Pro" 15", whereas Apple left the SD card slot in the 2017 iMac.  Yes indeed, such is beyond all comprehension and Apple has indeed left many scratching their collective heads.

    Just because we like Apple and its products doesn't necessarily mean we must always trust that Apple knows what it's doing is in our best interest.  Just as all that "constant negativity" got Apple to finally rethink its Mac Pro design, so we must continually provide Apple feedback when it's clear they've screwed up again.  Whether Apple has created something great or not in the iPhone 8 though is something no one can take Apple to task on until it is actually released.
    cgWerkswillcropoint
  • Reply 22 of 46
    jdw said:
    I have little doubt that Apple's implementation of facial recognition -- not to mention wireless charging and the new TouchID -- will be well beyond our conceptualizations or current comprehension of it, and will leave the competition scratching its collective head...
    Like the removal the SD card slot from the late 2016 and 2017 MacBook "Pro" 15", whereas Apple left the SD card slot in the 2017 iMac.  Yes indeed, such is beyond all comprehension and Apple has indeed left many scratching their collective heads.

    Just because we like Apple and its products doesn't necessarily mean we must always trust that Apple knows what it's doing is in our best interest.  Just as all that "constant negativity" got Apple to finally rethink its Mac Pro design, so we must continually provide Apple feedback when it's clear they've screwed up again.  Whether Apple has created something great or not in the iPhone 8 though is something no one can take Apple to task on until it is actually released.
    I've continuouslay used (and regularly updated my) MacBook Pros pretty much since the original, and I can count with less than the fingers one hand the number of times I've used the SD card slot. 

    Your use-case may not resemble anything close to what may be common or optimal. 
    MuntzStrangeDays
  • Reply 23 of 46
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,179member
    StrangeDays said:
    Do they no longer sell the SE? News to me. And the legacy analog headphone port? Ok man. Bet you’re still bummed about parallel ports too...?
    Sorry, but these were solid choices. You’re a fringe case. Apple is indeed better at this than you. 
    Well, quite some time after making the mistake... a lot of complaining... and then they corrected the error (thus the SE). They now seem to be correcting the lack of file system error for iOS too (something I was complaining about many years ago when I tried to use an iPad for all my mobile use). Seems they are finally correcting their 'pro gear' mistake as well, at least partly.

    How is an analogy headphone jack, legacy? The new iPhone models are about the only place they aren't used. And, afaik, our ears are still analog. Next they'll be saying speakers are legacy, lol.
  • Reply 24 of 46
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,179member
    anantksundaram said:
    I've continuouslay used (and regularly updated my) MacBook Pros pretty much since the original, and I can count with less than the fingers one hand the number of times I've used the SD card slot. 

    Your use-case may not resemble anything close to what may be common or optimal. 
    Or, is it a matter of Apple changing who they serve? Do pro users really not use the SD slots, or are the new 'pro' laptops more aimed at coffee-shop dwellers? I also don't use mine a whole lot, but I also don't do a lot of photography. I do regularly use thumb-drives though, and used to regularly use Ethernet in server-rooms. I can live with this move more than others Apple has made, but I'm not sure I'd say their timing was great. (This, and the 3.5mm jack, aren't anything like removal of the floppy or DVD... both of which I cheered on.)

    The difference, IMO, is that they used to remove things (like floppy, DVD, Flash) because their time had come, or to push a terrible technology out, or push advancement. Now, they seem to be making these decisions (often at quite an inconvenience to their customers, and way too soon) in order to achieve their internal goals (like slimming the device, or making room for some other glitzy new feature they maybe didn't need, etc.).
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 25 of 46
    netroxnetrox Posts: 740member
    Actually, I think you'll like the facial ID than Touch ID since you don't need to touch on a specific location. You just simply pick it up and it will start looking for your face and immediately recognize your face and unlock it. It's MUCH easier that way. And it works perfectly with Apple Pay because you ALWAYS bring place your phone which is pretty much in your view to activate the Apple Pay. 
  • Reply 26 of 46
    kevin kee said:
    Your analogy reminds me of people who are trying to use TouchID while wearing normal gloves, they just need to remove them. Unlike iris scanner, 3D sensing facial recognition does not require one to pick up the phone and look at the camera. It use a technology call depth sensing, which recognise any of your face features (not your eyes) from 3d angles.
    While kitted up for riding my Motorcycle (and yes I ride all year round) TouchId is simple to use.
    If for some reason Apple decree that its time is past then I'd really love for someone at Apple to explain why they are going back on decades of 'ease of use'.
    In winter and wearing a full face Crash Helmet, sunglasses and a under helmet balaclava there is no part of my face visible even with the visor up. It just won't work. The same will go fo all the hipsters on the ski slopes.
    Then there are all the apps that are designed to work with TouchId.

    I don't think (well hoping really) that apple don't go and get rid of TouchId. IMHO, putting it on the back is just as bad.
    I can tell Apple one certainty and that if you kill TouchId then I won't upgrade my phone for as long as possible. Even then, I'll probably buy used phones from then on. I can only protest by not spending any money with Apple.

  • Reply 27 of 46
    em_teem_te Posts: 25member
    Could facial recognition be the unlocking tool law enforcement has been wishing for to unlock phones? Wonder if the feature works on a dead guy
    Wonder if my twin or doppelgänger can unlock my phone.
  • Reply 28 of 46
    jensonbjensonb Posts: 528member
    So we're happy to buy that Apple can't find a way to make the existing Touch ID technology better by embedding it in the display, but we're also happy to uncritically assume that they have instead mastered reliable multi-angle facial recognition using cameras on the face of a cell phone...

    Am I the only one who finds those two assumptions somewhat incongruous? A hefty dose of scepticism is more than warranted with regards to this "FaceID" rumour in my view, until we actually see some proof that it works reliably & securely in a non-intrusive way. Until and unless we see that, assuming it is as good as or better than Touch ID, which we already know works well, is in no way justified. By all means, have cautious optimism, believe Apple can do it...But assuming they can't make TouchID better yet they've also definitely already mastered FaceID sufficiently that it is instantly a solid or improved replacement...That's a stretch.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 29 of 46
    kamiltonkamilton Posts: 259member
    Retinal scan and/or Facial recognition and/or Voice recognition.. whatever ships to enhance security, it has to take no more time and effort than Touch ID.  Touch ID is practically instantaneous and has proven to provide solid security.  If it isn't broken, Apple isn't going to fix it.  The fun will be seeing the elegance of the secondary (and perhaps even tertiary) security solutions they choose. 
  • Reply 30 of 46
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,593member
    jdw said:
    I have little doubt that Apple's implementation of facial recognition -- not to mention wireless charging and the new TouchID -- will be well beyond our conceptualizations or current comprehension of it, and will leave the competition scratching its collective head...
    Like the removal the SD card slot from the late 2016 and 2017 MacBook "Pro" 15", whereas Apple left the SD card slot in the 2017 iMac.  Yes indeed, such is beyond all comprehension and Apple has indeed left many scratching their collective heads.

    Just because we like Apple and its products doesn't necessarily mean we must always trust that Apple knows what it's doing is in our best interest.  Just as all that "constant negativity" got Apple to finally rethink its Mac Pro design, so we must continually provide Apple feedback when it's clear they've screwed up again.  Whether Apple has created something great or not in the iPhone 8 though is something no one can take Apple to task on until it is actually released.
    Not sure I agree with all of that. I don't think it was the constant negativity that got Apple to change its mind on the Mac Pro.  If I was, then they wouldn't be waiting until next year to release it. The problem was twofold:

    1. They believed that chip thermals would improve and the current case design would serve them for years to come. That was a mistake. 
    2. They thought that external expansion was the way to go. I'm not sure they've changed their mind on this. Note that Schiller described the new Mac as 'modular, so I'm still expecting the cheese grater crowd to be disappointed. 
    The loss of the 3.5" inch jack was a necessity. They didn't remove it from the the MacBooks because there was no need to: the chassis is large enough to support it without increasing its size. 

    Apple doesn't often change its mind because of customer complaints. In his case they corrected the Mac Pro design because technology didn't move in the direction they thought it would. Sometime the price you pay for running a business expense on the bleeding edge. 

    Of course, one could argue that they would have seen the problem sooner if they'd listened earlier, but we will only know that when we see what eventually come up with. 

    Exciting times. :-)




    StrangeDays
  • Reply 31 of 46
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    cgWerks said:
    StrangeDays said:
    Do they no longer sell the SE? News to me. And the legacy analog headphone port? Ok man. Bet you’re still bummed about parallel ports too...?
    Sorry, but these were solid choices. You’re a fringe case. Apple is indeed better at this than you. 
    Well, quite some time after making the mistake... a lot of complaining... and then they corrected the error (thus the SE). They now seem to be correcting the lack of file system error for iOS too (something I was complaining about many years ago when I tried to use an iPad for all my mobile use). Seems they are finally correcting their 'pro gear' mistake as well, at least partly.

    How is an analogy headphone jack, legacy? The new iPhone models are about the only place they aren't used. And, afaik, our ears are still analog. Next they'll be saying speakers are legacy, lol.
    Man, you sure like to hear to give yourself unwarranted accolades huh. If something is introduced 10 years into a products it is certainly not because they made an "error", maybe they just don't like producing half baked slow unsecured garbage unlike the android tit suckers.

    if analog is fine than stop whining and put some rca cables on all your equipment, make sure to use vinyl too and while your at it, buy a time machine... 

    Your not not going to get your 3.5mm , just like fans of floppy disks or SCSI are not going to get it either. Yoûll just have to live without this kudos... though

    our ears are analog but everything else isn't and the cable is no longer there just to bring one info like. End devices are becoming also sensor arrays with processing like the home pod and AirPod and that requires a data link.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 32 of 46
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    jensonb said:
    So we're happy to buy that Apple can't find a way to make the existing Touch ID technology better by embedding it in the display, but we're also happy to uncritically assume that they have instead mastered reliable multi-angle facial recognition using cameras on the face of a cell phone...

    Am I the only one who finds those two assumptions somewhat incongruous? A hefty dose of scepticism is more than warranted with regards to this "FaceID" rumour in my view, until we actually see some proof that it works reliably & securely in a non-intrusive way. Until and unless we see that, assuming it is as good as or better than Touch ID, which we already know works well, is in no way justified. By all means, have cautious optimism, believe Apple can do it...But assuming they can't make TouchID better yet they've also definitely already mastered FaceID sufficiently that it is instantly a solid or improved replacement...That's a stretch.
    Well, we only believe that if indeed touched is not there at all, it may instead be in the power button. Apple would not introduce a total Touch ID replacement unless it works just as well; they have too much depending on it.

    so either there is touchud as a backup or it works well alone; neither is an unreasonable assumption when it comes to apples ethics
  • Reply 33 of 46
    frantisekfrantisek Posts: 464member
    tshapi said:
    Does this mean that Siri will soon be able to read lips? 
    Maybe but you can be able interact with Siri without touching phone.Especially authenticate actions. Question is whether Apple explore this in current iOS.
  • Reply 34 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,591member
    jdw said:
    I have little doubt that Apple's implementation of facial recognition -- not to mention wireless charging and the new TouchID -- will be well beyond our conceptualizations or current comprehension of it, and will leave the competition scratching its collective head...
    Like the removal the SD card slot from the late 2016 and 2017 MacBook "Pro" 15", whereas Apple left the SD card slot in the 2017 iMac.  Yes indeed, such is beyond all comprehension and Apple has indeed left many scratching their collective heads.

    Just because we like Apple and its products doesn't necessarily mean we must always trust that Apple knows what it's doing is in our best interest.  Just as all that "constant negativity" got Apple to finally rethink its Mac Pro design, so we must continually provide Apple feedback when it's clear they've screwed up again.  Whether Apple has created something great or not in the iPhone 8 though is something no one can take Apple to task on until it is actually released.
    Nonsense upon nonsense. 

    - Removal of a consumer media card format (my prosumer dSLRs don't even use SD) from the pro laptop makes sense. Leaving it on the consumer desktop makes sense. Different use cases, different constraints, different products, different designs.

    - Uh no, the collective web bitching *did not* prompt Apple to redo the MP. The thermal wall deadend they tried to engineer around, but couldn't, caused them to start over. As well the lack of GPU parallel processing taking hold. This took time. Craig said this specifically in the MP media event.

    - If you don't believe Apple knows what it's doing *by now*, then you're just repeating the same questionable behavior and expecting different results. i.e., the definition of insanity.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 35 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,591member

    cgWerks said:
    StrangeDays said:
    Do they no longer sell the SE? News to me. And the legacy analog headphone port? Ok man. Bet you’re still bummed about parallel ports too...?
    Sorry, but these were solid choices. You’re a fringe case. Apple is indeed better at this than you. 
    Well, quite some time after making the mistake... a lot of complaining... and then they corrected the error (thus the SE). They now seem to be correcting the lack of file system error for iOS too (something I was complaining about many years ago when I tried to use an iPad for all my mobile use). Seems they are finally correcting their 'pro gear' mistake as well, at least partly.

    How is an analogy headphone jack, legacy? The new iPhone models are about the only place they aren't used. And, afaik, our ears are still analog. Next they'll be saying speakers are legacy, lol.
    They why do you use digital components of any sort? Idiotic argument. Yes, the analog port on the iPhone is legacy. It has a modern digital audio port now. The Macs don't have the same design constraints (space) so can afford the luxury of more ports, including legacy ones. Dur. 

    Before the newer SE you could buy a 5s. The SE was an update to the form factor, so I have no idea what you are talking about -- if you wanted to buy a smaller iPhone you could.

    As for file access, what you call "correcting" I call "evolving". I know you don't produce software or build products, but no product comes out of a clamshell fully formed. They go thru iterations and improvements and evolve. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Part of iPhone's historic, mind-numbing success is how easy it was to use. That anybody could pick it up and get going with it. That was by design. Being conservative with its easy of use is a good strategy, not a mistake. History proves this right -- iDevices are the most successful in human history. Oops. Total amateurs, right!?
  • Reply 36 of 46
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,591member

    kevin kee said:
    Your analogy reminds me of people who are trying to use TouchID while wearing normal gloves, they just need to remove them. Unlike iris scanner, 3D sensing facial recognition does not require one to pick up the phone and look at the camera. It use a technology call depth sensing, which recognise any of your face features (not your eyes) from 3d angles.
    While kitted up for riding my Motorcycle (and yes I ride all year round) TouchId is simple to use.
    If for some reason Apple decree that its time is past then I'd really love for someone at Apple to explain why they are going back on decades of 'ease of use'.
    In winter and wearing a full face Crash Helmet, sunglasses and a under helmet balaclava there is no part of my face visible even with the visor up. It just won't work. The same will go fo all the hipsters on the ski slopes.
    Then there are all the apps that are designed to work with TouchId.

    I don't think (well hoping really) that apple don't go and get rid of TouchId. IMHO, putting it on the back is just as bad.
    I can tell Apple one certainty and that if you kill TouchId then I won't upgrade my phone for as long as possible. Even then, I'll probably buy used phones from then on. I can only protest by not spending any money with Apple.

    Get it thru your head -- wearing a hazmat suit or whatever you can dream up is an *edge case*, and irrelevant. In those fringe use cases you'll just have to tap in a passcode. Oh well. 

    You're "I won't buy this!!" is just fear, panic, and the same sort of nonsense we heard from critics before Touch ID was released. You're averse to change, I get it. But just wait and see what the product actually does before knee-jerking with your decrees of absolute resolutions. 
  • Reply 37 of 46
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,593member
    cgWerks said:
    StrangeDays said:
    Do they no longer sell the SE? News to me. And the legacy analog headphone port? Ok man. Bet you’re still bummed about parallel ports too...?
    Sorry, but these were solid choices. You’re a fringe case. Apple is indeed better at this than you. 
    Well, quite some time after making the mistake... a lot of complaining... and then they corrected the error (thus the SE). They now seem to be correcting the lack of file system error for iOS too (something I was complaining about many years ago when I tried to use an iPad for all my mobile use). Seems they are finally correcting their 'pro gear' mistake as well, at least partly.

    How is an analogy headphone jack, legacy? The new iPhone models are about the only place they aren't used. And, afaik, our ears are still analog. Next they'll be saying speakers are legacy, lol.
    LOL YES! You think Apple would have waited until someone had invented A/D conversion so we could actually hear the music playing through the headphones! 
  • Reply 38 of 46
    jensonbjensonb Posts: 528member
    foggyhill said:
    jensonb said:
    So we're happy to buy that Apple can't find a way to make the existing Touch ID technology better by embedding it in the display, but we're also happy to uncritically assume that they have instead mastered reliable multi-angle facial recognition using cameras on the face of a cell phone...

    Am I the only one who finds those two assumptions somewhat incongruous? A hefty dose of scepticism is more than warranted with regards to this "FaceID" rumour in my view, until we actually see some proof that it works reliably & securely in a non-intrusive way. Until and unless we see that, assuming it is as good as or better than Touch ID, which we already know works well, is in no way justified. By all means, have cautious optimism, believe Apple can do it...But assuming they can't make TouchID better yet they've also definitely already mastered FaceID sufficiently that it is instantly a solid or improved replacement...That's a stretch.
    Well, we only believe that if indeed touched is not there at all, it may instead be in the power button. Apple would not introduce a total Touch ID replacement unless it works just as well; they have too much depending on it.

    so either there is touchud as a backup or it works well alone; neither is an unreasonable assumption when it comes to apples ethics
    I mean, it’s reasonable to assume Apple thinks so, but Apple is not infallible. They can and do blow these calls sometimes. Usually they don’t, sure, but this is a very unproven technology. I’m just saying a little realism about the viability of FaceID is not unwarranted.
  • Reply 39 of 46
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 1,654member
    TouchID is a very mature and advanced technology and if Apple decided to dismiss it (if... again) they may have serious reasons to do so. One day an Apple exec may show up in an interview and bluntly say "people don't use TouchID" for example. Recall that the first teardown of the Touch Bar Macbook Pros revealed that the FaceTime camera was being driven by the secure T1 chip of the Touch Bar. That shows facial recognition was already on the way and rumors about facial recognition on the iPhone were even nil at this date. Apple certainly possess the knowledge of the TouchID activation ratio over total activated iPhones and that ratio may have showed that it is not worth to continue with that subsystem on the new iPhone. Or, even if the opposite is true, Apple may have developed the facial recognition to such a point that we'll finally get a non-invasive and totally transparent authentication subsystem. Both password and fingerprint are invasive authentication methods, they force me to do something. But this is the device's job to remember me. This is the first job of everything pretending to be AI...
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 40 of 46
    I do have my concerns with facial recognition. I presume Apple has worked out a way of handling it well or they wouldn't release it. I started wearing glasses this week so another factor that I'm not at all familiar with. We'll see.

    But as a backup... my Apple Watch v2 unlocks my MacBook when I'm nearby. I would hope Apple will use that for the Phone too. 
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