Apple's iPhone 7 & 7 Plus top Q2 smartphone market, beating Samsung's Galaxy S8

Posted:
in iPhone
The iPhone 7 and 7 Plus held on as the world's most popular smartphones in the June quarter, according to research data published on Wednesday, handily relegating Samsung's newer Galaxy S8 flagship to third place.




Apple shipped an estimated 16.9 million units of the iPhone 7, and 15.1 million of the 7 Plus, Strategy Analytics said. Respectively the products captured 5 and 4 percent of the market.

The Galaxy S8 saw about 10.2 million shipments, while the 6.2-inch Galaxy S8+ managed 9 million. The next closest competitor was Xiaomi's Redmi 4A, which managed 5.5 million.

Smartphone shipments grew year-over-year overall, from 341.5 million to 360.4 million.




Apple is thought to be on the verge of announcing three new iPhones: the OLED-equipped "iPhone 8,", and more conventional "iPhone 7s" and "7s Plus" models. Broader iPhone sales will probably suffer until those products are released.

The company is likely hoping to drive as many people as it can to the "iPhone 8," which may become the first iPhone to cost over $1,000, at least in some configurations. A 256-gigabyte iPhone 7 Plus is $969 before tax.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 40
    jason98jason98 Posts: 763member
    The company is likely hoping to drive as few people as it can to the "iPhone 8," which may become the first iPhone to cost over $1,000
    fixed it for you ;)
    bb-15jony0
  • Reply 2 of 40
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,594member
    Guesstimate. 
  • Reply 3 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,604member
    But but but the legacy headphone port! Techies on rumor sites say No Buy! i...don’t...understand....
    bb-15chiapscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 40
    Ten reasons why this report must be wrong:

    1. The iPhone 7 has no standard headphone jack.
    2. All consumers hate wide bezels on smartphones.
    3. The iPhone's ancient display pales in comparison to the modern Infinity Display.
    4. The iPhone 7 lacks overall innovation, so it's boring.
    5. More system RAM is always better.
    6. More processor cores are always better.
    7. A higher display ratio to overall body size is always better.
    8. Android OS allows widgets and infinite customization.
    9. iPhones are more expensive than Samsung smartphones.
    10. Steve Jobs is no longer Apple's CEO so the iPhone is doomed.

    It's very possible Apple bribed some key people to get a better ranking on this report.
    Analysts are never wrong about Apple being a doomed company.

    /s
    edited August 2017 anantksundaramjony0indyfxanalogjackronnlolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 40
    Ten reasons why this report must be wrong:

    1. The iPhone 7 has no standard headphone jack.
    2. All consumers hate wide bezels on smartphones.
    3. The iPhone's ancient display pales in comparison to the modern Infinity Display.
    4. The iPhone 7 lacks overall innovation, so it's boring.
    5. More system RAM is always better.
    6. More processor cores are always better.
    7. A higher display ratio to overall body size is always better.
    8. Android OS allows widgets and infinite customization.
    9. iPhones are more expensive than Samsung smartphones.
    10. Steve Jobs is no longer Apple's CEO so the iPhone is doomed.

    It's very possible Apple bribed some key people to get a better ranking on this report.
    Analysts are never wrong about Apple being a doomed company.

    /s


    While most of your points are valid for the /s tag, Apple themselves would disagree with you on the highlighted points. Need proof? Wait for iPhone Pro launch next month. There is a reason why Apple would charge lot more for implementing those points in iPhone Pro and charge less for not implementing those in 7s/7s plus (though 7s plus will have more RAM than 7s - 3 GB vs 2 GB)

    Edit: Point 6 also goes out of window with A10X having 6 cores, compared to A10 4 cores, A9 2 cores.

    edited August 2017
  • Reply 6 of 40
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,035member
    Ten reasons why this report must be wrong:

    1. The iPhone 7 has no standard headphone jack.
    2. All consumers hate wide bezels on smartphones.
    3. The iPhone's ancient display pales in comparison to the modern Infinity Display.
    4. The iPhone 7 lacks overall innovation, so it's boring.
    5. More system RAM is always better.
    6. More processor cores are always better.
    7. A higher display ratio to overall body size is always better.
    8. Android OS allows widgets and infinite customization.
    9. iPhones are more expensive than Samsung smartphones.
    10. Steve Jobs is no longer Apple's CEO so the iPhone is doomed.

    It's very possible Apple bribed some key people to get a better ranking on this report.
    Analysts are never wrong about Apple being a doomed company.

    /s
    11. People believe any of the list to be true and defend them religiously in every forum like a true fact.

    /s
    anomelolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,793member
    This was also in the news recently but not picked up here. LOL:

    uk.businessinsider.com/huawei-could-overtake-apple-second-biggest-smartphone-canalys-data-2017-8

    I personally think there will be a supercycle and that is great because, if there is one, it shows at the very least, Apple is not losing users.

    However, we will have to wait and see if share increases with the next refresh.

    What is guaranteed is that IMO Apple is facing its fiercest competition in years.

    Note 8
    Mate 10
    P11
    iPhone

    It is going to be great to watch those four (and others) compete at the top level, but bubbling under that premium bunch you have some great contenders to pick up those users who don't have the big bucks for a real premium phone. The Honor line (the Honor 9 right now) is ultra tempting to many of those users.

    As we enter the new year we also have the rumour that Huawei is about to finally touch down on US soil to face off with Apple in its back yard through a carrier agreement to push the Mate 10 and P11. That would be a big first for fresh competition for Apple in the US. 

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2017/08/05/huaweis-bezel-less-mate-10-will-hit-the-u-s-market-to-take-on-iphone-8/?s=trending#2b17c1741365

    Competition is good.

    edited August 2017
  • Reply 8 of 40
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 738member
    Ten reasons why this report must be wrong:

    1. The iPhone 7 has no standard headphone jack.
    2. All consumers hate wide bezels on smartphones.
    3. The iPhone's ancient display pales in comparison to the modern Infinity Display.
    4. The iPhone 7 lacks overall innovation, so it's boring.
    5. More system RAM is always better.
    6. More processor cores are always better.
    7. A higher display ratio to overall body size is always better.
    8. Android OS allows widgets and infinite customization.
    9. iPhones are more expensive than Samsung smartphones.
    10. Steve Jobs is no longer Apple's CEO so the iPhone is doomed.

    It's very possible Apple bribed some key people to get a better ranking on this report.
    Analysts are never wrong about Apple being a doomed company.

    /s
    Hahahaha  so true!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 40
    analogjackanalogjack Posts: 1,066member
    avon b7 said:
    This was also in the news recently but not picked up here. LOL:

    uk.businessinsider.com/huawei-could-overtake-apple-second-biggest-smartphone-canalys-data-2017-8

    I personally think there will be a supercycle and that is great because, if there is one, it shows at the very least, Apple is not losing users...

    ...Competition is good.

    Apple does not compete at the bottom end. Those who make or sell the most smartphones and those who make the most profitable and high end smartphones are two entirely separate entities.
    ronnbrucemcStrangeDayslolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 40
    This news must really burn up Kim Jong Un...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,793member
    avon b7 said:
    This was also in the news recently but not picked up here. LOL:

    uk.businessinsider.com/huawei-could-overtake-apple-second-biggest-smartphone-canalys-data-2017-8

    I personally think there will be a supercycle and that is great because, if there is one, it shows at the very least, Apple is not losing users...

    ...Competition is good.

    Apple does not compete at the bottom end. Those who make or sell the most smartphones and those who make the most profitable and high end smartphones are two entirely separate entities.
    This article is based on Q2 data.

    Take a look at some Q1 data:

    www.counterpointresearch.com/afforadable-smartphones-increase-q1-2017/

    That huge increase in the affordable premium  is where the action was, not the bottom end. And that is where Apple doesn't really operate.

    Year on year, Apple is flat (see link in previous post). The pack is closing in on second position. In fact, in some regions Apple has already been bumped down the pecking order.

    Apple and Huawei are slugging it out in major European markets. Q2 saw Huawei take the round:

    https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/huawei-overtakes-apple-cee-xiaomi-rockets-top-five

    In some countries in Europe Huawei is consistently topping Apple:

    "According a GfK report, as of December 2016, Huawei’s North-East Europe market share surpassed 20%, while in Western Europe it reached nearly 15%. Its market share in has topped 20% in many European countries, including Finland, Holland, Belgium, Poland, Spain, Italy and the Czech Republic. For the Western Europe and North-east Europe markets, sales revenue and shipments continue to increase by nearly 100% year-on-year and are expected to maintain strong momentum."

    That was from the horse's mouth so take it at face value.

    www.huawei.com/en/news/2017/4/2017HAS-showcases-strong-growth

    I think Android in Spain is touching 80 or even 90%. Apple is suffering in some regions. Of course one of the biggest areas where it is not suffering is the US. If Huawei does get a carrier deal you can bet they won't be pushing bottom end phones.

    Yes, Huawei also makes low end phones but that isn't where its growth has been. In fact it has decided to pull out of the low end. Not because it doesn't make money there, it just doesn't make enough.

    This article makes it pretty clear that the bottom end isn't where Huawei is generating success:

    https://www.mobileworldlive.com/asia/asia-news/huawei-to-pull-out-of-low-end-smartphone-market/

    As for profits, I saw some numbers the other day that seemed to indicate that Apple was raking in 10% less of handset profits than at the end of 2016, probably as a result of what I just outlined: competitors are squaring up to Apple at the high end but also filling the affordable premium segment with quality phones, that are also profitable.

    We will soon have one iPhone refresh to take us full circle through to September 2018. A long year. That's a lot of weight to carry when, out of the gate, your competitors will also be releasing new hardware head on. Then there will be another wave for MWC 2018 another four months after that.

    Apple has to repeat what it has managed to do this year (largely on the back of the the Plus iPhones).

    The next refresh, plus iPhone 8 (or whatever it is called) might do the trick. Huawei might implode, there might be component shortages across the board. I don't know.

    What I do know is that there is a lot of anti Android talk that is not based on much real information at all. It's often the same codswallop that gets served up again and a again.

    What counts is competition. That is what we have. That can only be good for consumers.




    edited August 2017
  • Reply 12 of 40
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,050moderator
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This was also in the news recently but not picked up here. LOL:

    uk.businessinsider.com/huawei-could-overtake-apple-second-biggest-smartphone-canalys-data-2017-8

    I personally think there will be a supercycle and that is great because, if there is one, it shows at the very least, Apple is not losing users...

    ...Competition is good.

    Apple does not compete at the bottom end. Those who make or sell the most smartphones and those who make the most profitable and high end smartphones are two entirely separate entities.
    This article is based on Q2 data.

    Take a look at some Q1 data:

    www.counterpointresearch.com/afforadable-smartphones-increase-q1-2017/

    That huge increase in the affordable premium  is where the action was, not the bottom end. And that is where Apple doesn't really operate.

    Year on year, Apple is flat (see link in previous post). The pack is closing in on second position. In fact, in some regions Apple has already been bumped down the pecking order.

    Apple and Huawei are slugging it out in major European markets. Q2 saw Huawei take the round:

    https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/huawei-overtakes-apple-cee-xiaomi-rockets-top-five

    In some countries in Europe Huawei is consistently topping Apple:

    "According a GfK report, as of December 2016, Huawei’s North-East Europe market share surpassed 20%, while in Western Europe it reached nearly 15%. Its market share in has topped 20% in many European countries, including Finland, Holland, Belgium, Poland, Spain, Italy and the Czech Republic. For the Western Europe and North-east Europe markets, sales revenue and shipments continue to increase by nearly 100% year-on-year and are expected to maintain strong momentum."

    That was from the horse's mouth so take it at face value.

    www.huawei.com/en/news/2017/4/2017HAS-showcases-strong-growth

    I think Android in Spain is touching 80 or even 90%. Apple is suffering in some regions. Of course one of the biggest areas where it is not suffering is the US. If Huawei does get a carrier deal you can bet they won't be pushing bottom end phones.

    Yes, Huawei also makes low end phones but that isn't where its growth has been. In fact it has decided to pull out of the low end. Not because it doesn't make money there, it just doesn't make enough.

    This article makes it pretty clear that the bottom end isn't where Huawei is generating success:

    https://www.mobileworldlive.com/asia/asia-news/huawei-to-pull-out-of-low-end-smartphone-market/

    As for profits, I saw some numbers the other day that seemed to indicate that Apple was raking in 10% less of handset profits than at the end of 2016, probably as a result of what I just outlined: competitors are squaring up to Apple at the high end but also filling the affordable premium segment with quality phones, that are also profitable.

    We will soon have one iPhone refresh to take us full circle through to September 2018. A long year. That's a lot of weight to carry when, out of the gate, your competitors will also be releasing new hardware head on. Then there will be another wave for MWC 2018 another four months after that.

    Apple has to repeat what it has managed to do this year (largely on the back of the the Plus iPhones).

    The next refresh, plus iPhone 8 (or whatever it is called) might do the trick. Huawei might implode, there might be component shortages across the board. I don't know.

    What I do know is that there is a lot of anti Android talk that is not based on much real information at all. It's often the same codswallop that gets served up again and a again.

    What counts is competition. That is what we have. That can only be good for consumers.




    Apple isn't competing with Android merely with iPhone handsets.  It's all about platforms and ecosystem.  This is the reason it's been reported recently the billion+ iOS device installed base.  That's one company with over a billion active devices versus the entire universe of Android vendors having about a 3 billion installed base.  IOS devices are outnumbered, until you think about where the money is spent, about how many of the competition's installed base are on the latest major Android release, about how loyal iOS users are, about how well integrated those iOS devices are with the rest of the growing Apple ecosystem, about how Apple is adding platforms (Apple Pay, HomeKit, HealyhKit, ARKit, etc) that add value to a large percentage of the iOS installed base, etc.  Apple is becoming a defacto ecosystem/platform standard.  Android remains fragmented.  That's the story. 
    brucemcStrangeDayslolliverpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 40
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,527member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This was also in the news recently but not picked up here. LOL:

    uk.businessinsider.com/huawei-could-overtake-apple-second-biggest-smartphone-canalys-data-2017-8

    I personally think there will be a supercycle and that is great because, if there is one, it shows at the very least, Apple is not losing users...

    ...Competition is good.

    Apple does not compete at the bottom end. Those who make or sell the most smartphones and those who make the most profitable and high end smartphones are two entirely separate entities.
    This article is based on Q2 data.

    Take a look at some Q1 data:

    www.counterpointresearch.com/afforadable-smartphones-increase-q1-2017/

    That huge increase in the affordable premium  is where the action was, not the bottom end. And that is where Apple doesn't really operate.

    Year on year, Apple is flat (see link in previous post). The pack is closing in on second position. In fact, in some regions Apple has already been bumped down the pecking order.

    Apple and Huawei are slugging it out in major European markets. Q2 saw Huawei take the round:

    https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/huawei-overtakes-apple-cee-xiaomi-rockets-top-five

    In some countries in Europe Huawei is consistently topping Apple:

    "According a GfK report, as of December 2016, Huawei’s North-East Europe market share surpassed 20%, while in Western Europe it reached nearly 15%. Its market share in has topped 20% in many European countries, including Finland, Holland, Belgium, Poland, Spain, Italy and the Czech Republic. For the Western Europe and North-east Europe markets, sales revenue and shipments continue to increase by nearly 100% year-on-year and are expected to maintain strong momentum."

    That was from the horse's mouth so take it at face value.

    www.huawei.com/en/news/2017/4/2017HAS-showcases-strong-growth

    I think Android in Spain is touching 80 or even 90%. Apple is suffering in some regions. Of course one of the biggest areas where it is not suffering is the US. If Huawei does get a carrier deal you can bet they won't be pushing bottom end phones.

    Yes, Huawei also makes low end phones but that isn't where its growth has been. In fact it has decided to pull out of the low end. Not because it doesn't make money there, it just doesn't make enough.

    This article makes it pretty clear that the bottom end isn't where Huawei is generating success:

    https://www.mobileworldlive.com/asia/asia-news/huawei-to-pull-out-of-low-end-smartphone-market/

    As for profits, I saw some numbers the other day that seemed to indicate that Apple was raking in 10% less of handset profits than at the end of 2016, probably as a result of what I just outlined: competitors are squaring up to Apple at the high end but also filling the affordable premium segment with quality phones, that are also profitable.

    We will soon have one iPhone refresh to take us full circle through to September 2018. A long year. That's a lot of weight to carry when, out of the gate, your competitors will also be releasing new hardware head on. Then there will be another wave for MWC 2018 another four months after that.

    Apple has to repeat what it has managed to do this year (largely on the back of the the Plus iPhones).

    The next refresh, plus iPhone 8 (or whatever it is called) might do the trick. Huawei might implode, there might be component shortages across the board. I don't know.

    What I do know is that there is a lot of anti Android talk that is not based on much real information at all. It's often the same codswallop that gets served up again and a again.

    What counts is competition. That is what we have. That can only be good for consumers.




    Apple isn't competing with Android merely with iPhone handsets.  It's all about platforms and ecosystem.  This is the reason it's been reported recently the billion+ iOS device installed base.  That's one company with over a billion active devices versus the entire universe of Android vendors having about a 3 billion installed base.  IOS devices are outnumbered, until you think about where the money is spent, about how many of the competition's installed base are on the latest major Android release, about how loyal iOS users are, about how well integrated those iOS devices are with the rest of the growing Apple ecosystem, about how Apple is adding platforms (Apple Pay, HomeKit, HealyhKit, ARKit, etc) that add value to a large percentage of the iOS installed base, etc.  Apple is becoming a defacto ecosystem/platform standard.  Android remains fragmented.  That's the story. 
    I would be surprised if there are 3B Android phones in use yet.  At the May 2017 Google I/O event, Google indicated that there were 2B monthly active Android devices (which Google can count as using their services).  The largest group outside of Google Android would be in China - would there be 1B active (installed base) Android devices, in a country with a total population of 1.3B?  I would think 500M is closer to reality.

    Apple reported 1B active iOS devices last year.  Given the units sold in last 12 months (while accounting for some that would be retired/broken), 1.2B active iOS devices seems quite plausible.  1.2B out of 3.7B is ~32% "smart device" installed base share globally - not exactly beleaguered - especially when you consider this is mostly the top 30% of users as it pertains to purchasing power.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,604member
    Ten reasons why this report must be wrong:

    1. The iPhone 7 has no standard headphone jack.
    2. All consumers hate wide bezels on smartphones.
    3. The iPhone's ancient display pales in comparison to the modern Infinity Display.
    4. The iPhone 7 lacks overall innovation, so it's boring.
    5. More system RAM is always better.
    6. More processor cores are always better.
    7. A higher display ratio to overall body size is always better.
    8. Android OS allows widgets and infinite customization.
    9. iPhones are more expensive than Samsung smartphones.
    10. Steve Jobs is no longer Apple's CEO so the iPhone is doomed.

    It's very possible Apple bribed some key people to get a better ranking on this report.
    Analysts are never wrong about Apple being a doomed company.

    /s


    While most of your points are valid for the /s tag, Apple themselves would disagree with you on the highlighted points. Need proof? Wait for iPhone Pro launch next month. There is a reason why Apple would charge lot more for implementing those points in iPhone Pro and charge less for not implementing those in 7s/7s plus (though 7s plus will have more RAM than 7s - 3 GB vs 2 GB)

    Edit: Point 6 also goes out of window with A10X having 6 cores, compared to A10 4 cores, A9 2 cores.

    But he said “always better” for 5 and 6, which still works with the /s tag because it isn’t true that more is always better and needed, as existing iDevices have shown compared to their Android contemporaries (better performance with less resources). 
    lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 40
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,604member

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This was also in the news recently but not picked up here. LOL:

    uk.businessinsider.com/huawei-could-overtake-apple-second-biggest-smartphone-canalys-data-2017-8

    I personally think there will be a supercycle and that is great because, if there is one, it shows at the very least, Apple is not losing users...

    ...Competition is good.

    Apple does not compete at the bottom end. Those who make or sell the most smartphones and those who make the most profitable and high end smartphones are two entirely separate entities.
    This article is based on Q2 data.

    Take a look at some Q1 data:

    www.counterpointresearch.com/afforadable-smartphones-increase-q1-2017/

    That huge increase in the affordable premium  is where the action was, not the bottom end. And that is where Apple doesn't really operate.

    Year on year, Apple is flat (see link in previous post). The pack is closing in on second position. In fact, in some regions Apple has already been bumped down the pecking order.

    Apple and Huawei are slugging it out in major European markets. Q2 saw Huawei take the round:

    https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/huawei-overtakes-apple-cee-xiaomi-rockets-top-five

    In some countries in Europe Huawei is consistently topping Apple:

    "According a GfK report, as of December 2016, Huawei’s North-East Europe market share surpassed 20%, while in Western Europe it reached nearly 15%. Its market share in has topped 20% in many European countries, including Finland, Holland, Belgium, Poland, Spain, Italy and the Czech Republic. For the Western Europe and North-east Europe markets, sales revenue and shipments continue to increase by nearly 100% year-on-year and are expected to maintain strong momentum."

    That was from the horse's mouth so take it at face value.

    www.huawei.com/en/news/2017/4/2017HAS-showcases-strong-growth

    I think Android in Spain is touching 80 or even 90%. Apple is suffering in some regions. Of course one of the biggest areas where it is not suffering is the US. If Huawei does get a carrier deal you can bet they won't be pushing bottom end phones.

    Yes, Huawei also makes low end phones but that isn't where its growth has been. In fact it has decided to pull out of the low end. Not because it doesn't make money there, it just doesn't make enough.

    This article makes it pretty clear that the bottom end isn't where Huawei is generating success:

    https://www.mobileworldlive.com/asia/asia-news/huawei-to-pull-out-of-low-end-smartphone-market/

    As for profits, I saw some numbers the other day that seemed to indicate that Apple was raking in 10% less of handset profits than at the end of 2016, probably as a result of what I just outlined: competitors are squaring up to Apple at the high end but also filling the affordable premium segment with quality phones, that are also profitable.

    We will soon have one iPhone refresh to take us full circle through to September 2018. A long year. That's a lot of weight to carry when, out of the gate, your competitors will also be releasing new hardware head on. Then there will be another wave for MWC 2018 another four months after that.

    Apple has to repeat what it has managed to do this year (largely on the back of the the Plus iPhones).

    The next refresh, plus iPhone 8 (or whatever it is called) might do the trick. Huawei might implode, there might be component shortages across the board. I don't know.

    What I do know is that there is a lot of anti Android talk that is not based on much real information at all. It's often the same codswallop that gets served up again and a again.

    What counts is competition. That is what we have. That can only be good for consumers.
    Funny, Apple’s demise is always next year. 
    edited August 2017 pscooter63watto_cobrabadmonk
  • Reply 16 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,793member

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This was also in the news recently but not picked up here. LOL:

    uk.businessinsider.com/huawei-could-overtake-apple-second-biggest-smartphone-canalys-data-2017-8

    I personally think there will be a supercycle and that is great because, if there is one, it shows at the very least, Apple is not losing users...

    ...Competition is good.

    Apple does not compete at the bottom end. Those who make or sell the most smartphones and those who make the most profitable and high end smartphones are two entirely separate entities.
    This article is based on Q2 data.

    Take a look at some Q1 data:

    www.counterpointresearch.com/afforadable-smartphones-increase-q1-2017/

    That huge increase in the affordable premium  is where the action was, not the bottom end. And that is where Apple doesn't really operate.

    Year on year, Apple is flat (see link in previous post). The pack is closing in on second position. In fact, in some regions Apple has already been bumped down the pecking order.

    Apple and Huawei are slugging it out in major European markets. Q2 saw Huawei take the round:

    https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/huawei-overtakes-apple-cee-xiaomi-rockets-top-five

    In some countries in Europe Huawei is consistently topping Apple:

    "According a GfK report, as of December 2016, Huawei’s North-East Europe market share surpassed 20%, while in Western Europe it reached nearly 15%. Its market share in has topped 20% in many European countries, including Finland, Holland, Belgium, Poland, Spain, Italy and the Czech Republic. For the Western Europe and North-east Europe markets, sales revenue and shipments continue to increase by nearly 100% year-on-year and are expected to maintain strong momentum."

    That was from the horse's mouth so take it at face value.

    www.huawei.com/en/news/2017/4/2017HAS-showcases-strong-growth

    I think Android in Spain is touching 80 or even 90%. Apple is suffering in some regions. Of course one of the biggest areas where it is not suffering is the US. If Huawei does get a carrier deal you can bet they won't be pushing bottom end phones.

    Yes, Huawei also makes low end phones but that isn't where its growth has been. In fact it has decided to pull out of the low end. Not because it doesn't make money there, it just doesn't make enough.

    This article makes it pretty clear that the bottom end isn't where Huawei is generating success:

    https://www.mobileworldlive.com/asia/asia-news/huawei-to-pull-out-of-low-end-smartphone-market/

    As for profits, I saw some numbers the other day that seemed to indicate that Apple was raking in 10% less of handset profits than at the end of 2016, probably as a result of what I just outlined: competitors are squaring up to Apple at the high end but also filling the affordable premium segment with quality phones, that are also profitable.

    We will soon have one iPhone refresh to take us full circle through to September 2018. A long year. That's a lot of weight to carry when, out of the gate, your competitors will also be releasing new hardware head on. Then there will be another wave for MWC 2018 another four months after that.

    Apple has to repeat what it has managed to do this year (largely on the back of the the Plus iPhones).

    The next refresh, plus iPhone 8 (or whatever it is called) might do the trick. Huawei might implode, there might be component shortages across the board. I don't know.

    What I do know is that there is a lot of anti Android talk that is not based on much real information at all. It's often the same codswallop that gets served up again and a again.

    What counts is competition. That is what we have. That can only be good for consumers.
    Funny, Apple’s demise is always next year. 
    No one mentioned 'demise' (or even doomed! LOL). You only need to read the post I was referring to to see the context.

    Of course, if there is anything factually wrong in what I said, I'm sure you'll set me straight.
  • Reply 17 of 40
    This news must really burn up Kim Jong Un...

    Why would Kim give a rat's ass about Samsung or Apple?
  • Reply 18 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,793member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    This was also in the news recently but not picked up here. LOL:

    uk.businessinsider.com/huawei-could-overtake-apple-second-biggest-smartphone-canalys-data-2017-8

    I personally think there will be a supercycle and that is great because, if there is one, it shows at the very least, Apple is not losing users...

    ...Competition is good.

    Apple does not compete at the bottom end. Those who make or sell the most smartphones and those who make the most profitable and high end smartphones are two entirely separate entities.
    This article is based on Q2 data.

    Take a look at some Q1 data:

    www.counterpointresearch.com/afforadable-smartphones-increase-q1-2017/

    That huge increase in the affordable premium  is where the action was, not the bottom end. And that is where Apple doesn't really operate.

    Year on year, Apple is flat (see link in previous post). The pack is closing in on second position. In fact, in some regions Apple has already been bumped down the pecking order.

    Apple and Huawei are slugging it out in major European markets. Q2 saw Huawei take the round:

    https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/huawei-overtakes-apple-cee-xiaomi-rockets-top-five

    In some countries in Europe Huawei is consistently topping Apple:

    "According a GfK report, as of December 2016, Huawei’s North-East Europe market share surpassed 20%, while in Western Europe it reached nearly 15%. Its market share in has topped 20% in many European countries, including Finland, Holland, Belgium, Poland, Spain, Italy and the Czech Republic. For the Western Europe and North-east Europe markets, sales revenue and shipments continue to increase by nearly 100% year-on-year and are expected to maintain strong momentum."

    That was from the horse's mouth so take it at face value.

    www.huawei.com/en/news/2017/4/2017HAS-showcases-strong-growth

    I think Android in Spain is touching 80 or even 90%. Apple is suffering in some regions. Of course one of the biggest areas where it is not suffering is the US. If Huawei does get a carrier deal you can bet they won't be pushing bottom end phones.

    Yes, Huawei also makes low end phones but that isn't where its growth has been. In fact it has decided to pull out of the low end. Not because it doesn't make money there, it just doesn't make enough.

    This article makes it pretty clear that the bottom end isn't where Huawei is generating success:

    https://www.mobileworldlive.com/asia/asia-news/huawei-to-pull-out-of-low-end-smartphone-market/

    As for profits, I saw some numbers the other day that seemed to indicate that Apple was raking in 10% less of handset profits than at the end of 2016, probably as a result of what I just outlined: competitors are squaring up to Apple at the high end but also filling the affordable premium segment with quality phones, that are also profitable.

    We will soon have one iPhone refresh to take us full circle through to September 2018. A long year. That's a lot of weight to carry when, out of the gate, your competitors will also be releasing new hardware head on. Then there will be another wave for MWC 2018 another four months after that.

    Apple has to repeat what it has managed to do this year (largely on the back of the the Plus iPhones).

    The next refresh, plus iPhone 8 (or whatever it is called) might do the trick. Huawei might implode, there might be component shortages across the board. I don't know.

    What I do know is that there is a lot of anti Android talk that is not based on much real information at all. It's often the same codswallop that gets served up again and a again.

    What counts is competition. That is what we have. That can only be good for consumers.




    Apple isn't competing with Android merely with iPhone handsets.  It's all about platforms and ecosystem.  This is the reason it's been reported recently the billion+ iOS device installed base.  That's one company with over a billion active devices versus the entire universe of Android vendors having about a 3 billion installed base.  IOS devices are outnumbered, until you think about where the money is spent, about how many of the competition's installed base are on the latest major Android release, about how loyal iOS users are, about how well integrated those iOS devices are with the rest of the growing Apple ecosystem, about how Apple is adding platforms (Apple Pay, HomeKit, HealyhKit, ARKit, etc) that add value to a large percentage of the iOS installed base, etc.  Apple is becoming a defacto ecosystem/platform standard.  Android remains fragmented.  That's the story. 
    Yes. That is great to have, but without iPhone there is not much ecosystem or platform left. That's why the true gauge to the health of the ecosystem is always the iPhone (at least today).

    I currently have four active iDevices at home plus two active Macs. None of them are actively contributing​ to Apple's coffers.

    I changed the battery of the iPhone 6 at an AppleStore this week for less than 90€ but that change might take me out of a potential iPhone purchase this Christmas. It remains to be seen.

    I'm definitely not a good services customer for Apple but services is clearly an area where any manufacturer would want to increase business (as Apple is doing).

    To reach and sustain that goal you need the biggest pool of homemade hardware possible and that's part of the reason the markets get touchy when Apple flattens out. The alternative is to open up more services to Android.

    But look at growth in developed countries. It really isn't there (4,5,6%) because we are reaching, or have reached saturation. The glory days of explosive growth have long passed in those markets. Now we have cycles and spikes. The potential good news for Apple is that, in a twisted way, they are in a similar situation to when they released the iPhone: they had no market and aspired to 1% as a starter. They passed the 1% mark long ago but they still have a huge potential market to grab.

    It's only 'potential' as Apple doesn't compete in some segments (low end) and in others (affordable premium) it's presence is very limited.

    Perhaps unfortunately for Apple, there has been explosive growth in exactly that area, which is also reporting profits to the manufacturers that operate there. Apple basically isn't in that segment. That might account for the drop in global handset profits for Apple that I think I saw recently. With current sales just as they are, Apple probably isn't worried but it is essential that the refresh this year hits the ground running just to maintain momentum. I think it will hit the ground sprinting but external conditions have changed.

    Competition isn't only real, it is already having an impact. Especially in Europe and China and will intensify at the start of next year.

    I don't know if the Huawei/AT&T deal will go through for the US. The Mate 10 will be revealed on 16.10.17 and possibly that will also be the moment to announce any deal.

    If it does go through, it will be another big fish in the US pool with Apple and Samsung and the actual pool of potential purchasers will be largely the same. Things, at the very least, will be more interesting than this year.
    edited August 2017
  • Reply 19 of 40
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Yeah, huge rise Avon, yet, ever decreasing profitability for those partaking in all those segments..

    While that happens, the premium phones, especially the Iphone and its whole integrated ecosystem,
    are really setting a wide permanent moat were no one has the R&D to follow.

    Apple is developing a post Iphone world while everyone thinks they're stalling... Like you.
    Griding out 80-90% profits in every segment they enter like clockwork and building a brand that can extend like no other into other products.

    The Watch and Airpods/Beats + Service Business alone is picking any slack that exists in Iphone Sales.

    The Ipad alone should have a very nice ramp up after it has been declared "dead" for 3 years.

    Lets see how this fall goes and them we will talk huh.

    StrangeDays
  • Reply 20 of 40
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,793member
    foggyhill said:
    Yeah, huge rise Avon, yet, ever decreasing profitability for those partaking in all those segments..

    While that happens, the premium phones, especially the Iphone and its whole integrated ecosystem,
    are really setting a wide permanent moat were no one has the R&D to follow.

    Apple is developing a post Iphone world while everyone thinks they're stalling... Like you.
    Griding out 80-90% profits in every segment they enter like clockwork and building a brand that can extend like no other into other products.

    The Watch and Airpods/Beats + Service Business alone is picking any slack that exists in Iphone Sales.

    The Ipad alone should have a very nice ramp up after it has been declared "dead" for 3 years.

    Lets see how this fall goes and them we will talk huh.

    Yes. Only time will tell.

    Things could change but there are a lot of indicators that suggest the next few months are going to be very, very competitive for the big three.

    Personally I hope the iPad Mini isn't EOL.

    As for R&D, Huawei alone has been pumping more into that than Apple so there is no lack of R&D outside Apple. If you add on to that, what Samsung pumps into R&D, and many others, you see there really is no moat separating Apple from the rest. At least in purely economic terms.

    I imagine that you agree with me that the ecosystem is dependent on the iPhone. At least right now.
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