Geesh guys! Give this guy a break, he 's already made up his mind to go for the PC. It's only a tool, his friends use PC's in college so it's only natural he'll use one. After his four years of playing video games are up he'll come back to the Mac for business. Besides you can't tell me a good PC wont do reports or be a viable solution for any college task. Please be open-minded and help him make the transition. So that being said, my suggestion is defiantly build your own. It's great building a beast from scratch, knowing every part by name.
A good desktop PC is just as reliable, and scads cheaper. But, since you just bought a too expensive iMac, you might as well use it rather than spending more money on even a cheap PC!
<strong>Glad to see americas youth go to college to buy pc's and play games <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
American students (I am one of them) do not call college "uni" that is a British/Aussie/New Zealand thing.
amherst, hope you don't leave apple. the iMac will be fine and its design and usefulness will outweigh will bring you much kudos in student land.
I visit UK universities a lot. Macs are far more frequent than you'd expect, and many academics use them.
that said, you seem to be missing two key points about your university experience. yes, you'll have to work hard for your education blah blah blah, and gaming would be a laugh. but your years at Oxford will mostly be dominated by thoughts of...
1. sex
2. drink
inevitable. can't actually think of any UK student I've ever met who prioritized anything over sex and drink. well maybe a couple, but they were alarmingly gimpy.
so, my suggestions are:
1. don't spend any money on a new computer. save it for drink and for...
<strong>Geesh guys! Give this guy a break, he 's already made up his mind to go for the PC. It's only a tool, his friends use PC's in college so it's only natural he'll use one. After his four years of playing video games are up he'll come back to the Mac for business. Besides you can't tell me a good PC wont do reports or be a viable solution for any college task. Please be open-minded and help him make the transition. So that being said, my suggestion is defiantly build your own. It's great building a beast from scratch, knowing every part by name.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks! I agree with what you say about it being a tool. I realise my original post was misconceived. What I've been trying to get at is that i want something that works seamlessly ... now when at school and transferring documents from the school's PCs to my Mac, and vice versa, I used to have to spend some time checking the imported document for minor layout changes and substitution of some characters with symbols. Ok, not a big deal - but it is when you're writing two 6,000 word essays a week with the complete works of Dickens to read and you're attempting to lead, as one poster suggested, a normal student life of endless partying. It is laziness, and undoubtedly a lack of knowledge about what can be done, but I don't want to have to learn how to do that and then put it into practice all the time when i could just buy a cheap PC and get on with what i'm there to do - my degree.
Thank you very much those of you who've been supportive and offered advice. I never intended to write a post which gave the fingers at you all whilst joyously moving to a PC, I made it quite clear that there is much on the Mac platform which I shall greatly miss. Of all of the PC manufacturers I'd like to plump for Sony, if only because it appears to have at least some of the style and build quality of the Mac platform...
American students (I am one of them) do not call college "uni" that is a British/Aussie/New Zealand thing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here in Britain you typically go to school until you're 16 to do GCSEs, college until you're 18 to do A levels and university until you're 21/22 to do a degree.
If you're looking to spend as much as you did for the iMac on a PC (or mac, I still don't why you just can't enjoy the comp you already own?) ... think... how much beer, gas money, how many concert tickets will I buy for that same outlay? The computer won't be worth a damn in 4 years, but a few hangovers and a ticket stub or two will stay with you for a long time. Remember, college has girls, OK yours are English, but you're a native (i presume) you can deal with it.
<strong>Typically in the United States, you go from school from K-12 (Ages 5-18).
Then, you go to a College/University for 4 years to get a degree (making you 22 when you get your degree).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmmm, so am I right in thinking the youngest age you can leave the educational system is 18? Are the majority of college courses 4 years rather than 3 (mine was 4, but included a year in industry)?
As for the comment about linking my system to networks, I take your point. What I'm talking about however is accessing university essays, assignments, documents and the such from the network and wondering whether my Mac is rendering it in the same way as those with PCs. Similarly, if I need to submit essays to my professor then I just want to do it rather than wondering what format I need to send it. I'll admit, its much more a matter of convenience and laziness than a REAL compatibility issue, but I want my computer to work as a seamless tool rather than one I have to adapt all the time to the environment around me. Up until now that has not been an issue.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was in business school 5-6 yrs ago. I had a mac centris 650 using whatever OS was out at the time (OS 8, i think). As you may or may not know, in american business schools almost all of the work is done in small groups of 4-6 people. These are group projects where the group gets together and writes one document or report together. I was the only mac user in every group project that I worked on. We would each work on our own part of the project (basically using MSWord, or Excel, ect), then e-mail them all to one person who would put them all together in one document. We would sometimes print out hard copies to turn in, and sometimes simply e-mail them in to the professor.
BOTTOM LINE: NO COMPATIBILITY ISSUES. PERIOD. AND THAT WAS 5 YEARS AGO.
In my experience, (aside, maybe, from real time networked gaming which i know nothing about), compatibility is simply a non-issue.
Before you decide this issue, you should test it out for yourself. Have a friend on a PC e-mail you something and see if you can open it, edit it, send it back to him/her, and have them open it with your changes. I can't imagine this would be a problem.
<strong>I want my computer to work as a seamless tool rather than one I have to adapt all the time to the environment around me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The only valid reason for getting a PC that you mention was the one for the networked gaming, and if you enjoy that sort of thing you have no choice but to get a PC.
If you want something that looks great and plays the latest games you should consider building one yourself. There are some very cool cases out there, and you can always mod them to fit your personal style. For under $1200 you can put together a great looking and powerful gaming machine.
There is one thing to conceder: Esthetically flat LCD displays are much better then bulky CRTs. Unfortunately, they don't handle gaming very well (ghosting, lower refresh rate, etc.). So even if you have a great looking computer, if you are really serious about your gaming, you will have a big ugly CRT on your desk.
On more thing. If you want a gaming PC you should avoid the AIO models at all costs.
As for games, most are out on Mac they just take longer. If you get a PC you'll eventually lose your entire hard drive and come back to the Mac. We'll all welcome you back.
--Apple, a bit more expesive, but better quality stuff with a longer life span than most PCs. ( Every Mac I have owned I have used for at least FIVE years.)
--Any MS Run Box, less expensive in the beginning. Poised to nickel and dime you to death throughout it's painful life span. Most PC users I know only use thier box for an average of up to TWO years.
----Take what the PC costs now..multiply it times two and a half ( if you don't upgrade the Operating system in that time, if you do..add in whatever ASTRONOMICAL cost MS will bestow on you to the total.)..cause more than likley..if you are getting it just for games..you will need to do a few hardware upgrades before giving up with all of the software and hardware conflicts and problems and buying a few PC box.
Operating Systems, you don't get what you pay for.
--Apple's OSX-- Ease of use, very user friendly, very few problems, and very few viruses compared to thier windows counterparts. Less Expensive than MS Operating systems-- AND you can utilize your DCMA rights. In OSX you can pretty much install what you need..and it does not bog down the system..provided you have enough RAM..and your not taking this to the extreme..and running EVERYTHING at once. Apple ALWAYS ASKS YOUR PERMISSION FIRST. And then it is up to YOU to make the decision to install updates from the company. You are not forced into any hostile upgrade agreements either. I have neen running OSX from the beta stage..and only had the Computer get a kernel panic 3 times. Twice in beta stages, and once in 10.1. Generally, it is simple to install drivers for OSX as well. Most are well written and don't require a second degree in IT speak to do so. If you need to uninstall something (in most cases) you can just drag the application to the trash. If for some reason you will not ever be using that application again, in your library under application support, find the folder (if applicable) and delete. A few more folders down, and you have the prefrences file as well (althogh these are miniscule a few kb each.) And it is ALL GONE. All of your other applications stay functioning..and no OS reinstall needed. If for any reason in the future you ended up really messing up (don't know how really) and HAD to reinstall...you don't need tech support, nor a 65 thousand digit code, or 1-3 hours on the phone to Apple to get your OS activated. If another OS from apple comes out while you own your Mac...and your Hardware meets the requriements..then a full version in the past is anywhere between $99.00-129.00 American. Upgrade prices less.
--MS-- Alot more pricey, and alot less features (unless you pony up the dough to get the "pro version". It aslo gets alot more complicated after the first few days. The more applications, games you decide to put on it, things really slow down, even with more than a GB of RAM and a 2.4GHZ processor. When MS deems it, they can install ANYTHING on your PC- WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT. They want you to trust them, when they are playing a HUGE part in TAKING AWAY YOUR DCMA rights..not to mention privacy on your own comptuer! Uninstalling things (which you may want to do sometime) can be a real pain in the keister! You most times need to use an uninstaller- which sounds good, but so far, it is not smart enought to work even up to 80% of what it promises. It will pretty much only check to see what the application you are wanting to remove uses, and deletes them along with with applcation. The bad part comes in from the program NOT checking to make sure that NO OTHER PROGRAMS use any of those libraries or misc. files either. Sometimes removing applications, can render others useless, meaning a reinstall of the application, and some extreme "something definately gone wrong" scenerios...where the OS needed reinstalled too. You got that 65 THOUSAND alpha-numeric MS Operatiing system code at hand? Oh, and do you have time to sit on the phone with tech support for at least 1-3 hours to reactivate your OS? Sure you could have a buddy at school mess with your system, and unless he is REALLY savvy..and totally understands the OS and the way it works..then he is just toying with it and you could end up with a paperwieght.
I don't know if you have made up your mind..I know alot of people (maybe myself included) have been a bit more than zealous about you not going to PC- these are just a few more reasons not to go.
If you are going to school in anyway-shape-or-form to further your education, and you are only plaing the bigboy games and not all of those $9.99 Wal-Mart Barbie gets a ticket games...then give it a goood bit of thought before you spend your money on ANY system.
Food for thought- thanks for reading my ramblings.
Comments
Huh?
Would you go to the Ford Enthusiast Club (BMW in Germany) to ask them which Chevy (Mercedes) the recommend?
Ask the Society of Less Filling Beers which beer Tastes Great?
Get an opinion from the Sadam r0x! fan club which poster of George W. one should get (the one with the rocket launcher, definitely).
You'll get an answer, but not a good one.
<strong>Doesn't Chrysler own Mercedes?
Q: How do you pronounce "DaimlerChrysler"?
A: Daimler. The Chrysler is silent.
<strong>Glad to see americas youth go to college to buy pc's and play games <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
American students (I am one of them) do not call college "uni" that is a British/Aussie/New Zealand thing.
I visit UK universities a lot. Macs are far more frequent than you'd expect, and many academics use them.
that said, you seem to be missing two key points about your university experience. yes, you'll have to work hard for your education blah blah blah, and gaming would be a laugh. but your years at Oxford will mostly be dominated by thoughts of...
1. sex
2. drink
inevitable. can't actually think of any UK student I've ever met who prioritized anything over sex and drink. well maybe a couple, but they were alarmingly gimpy.
so, my suggestions are:
1. don't spend any money on a new computer. save it for drink and for...
2. iPod. babe-magnet and object of technolust.
hang loose
PS, Owning a Mac AND a PC can give you the 'yuppie network games' without selling your soul. Just a thought.... (typed on my QS next to my AMD)
<strong>Geesh guys! Give this guy a break, he 's already made up his mind to go for the PC. It's only a tool, his friends use PC's in college so it's only natural he'll use one. After his four years of playing video games are up he'll come back to the Mac for business. Besides you can't tell me a good PC wont do reports or be a viable solution for any college task. Please be open-minded and help him make the transition. So that being said, my suggestion is defiantly build your own. It's great building a beast from scratch, knowing every part by name.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks! I agree with what you say about it being a tool. I realise my original post was misconceived. What I've been trying to get at is that i want something that works seamlessly ... now when at school and transferring documents from the school's PCs to my Mac, and vice versa, I used to have to spend some time checking the imported document for minor layout changes and substitution of some characters with symbols. Ok, not a big deal - but it is when you're writing two 6,000 word essays a week with the complete works of Dickens to read and you're attempting to lead, as one poster suggested, a normal student life of endless partying. It is laziness, and undoubtedly a lack of knowledge about what can be done, but I don't want to have to learn how to do that and then put it into practice all the time when i could just buy a cheap PC and get on with what i'm there to do - my degree.
Thank you very much those of you who've been supportive and offered advice. I never intended to write a post which gave the fingers at you all whilst joyously moving to a PC, I made it quite clear that there is much on the Mac platform which I shall greatly miss. Of all of the PC manufacturers I'd like to plump for Sony, if only because it appears to have at least some of the style and build quality of the Mac platform...
[ 03-05-2003: Message edited by: old_bean ]</p>
<strong>
American students (I am one of them) do not call college "uni" that is a British/Aussie/New Zealand thing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Here in Britain you typically go to school until you're 16 to do GCSEs, college until you're 18 to do A levels and university until you're 21/22 to do a degree.
How does it work in the States?
Then, you go to a College/University for 4 years to get a degree (making you 22 when you get your degree).
If you're looking to spend as much as you did for the iMac on a PC (or mac, I still don't why you just can't enjoy the comp you already own?) ... think... how much beer, gas money, how many concert tickets will I buy for that same outlay? The computer won't be worth a damn in 4 years, but a few hangovers and a ticket stub or two will stay with you for a long time. Remember, college has girls, OK yours are English, but you're a native (i presume) you can deal with it.
<strong>Typically in the United States, you go from school from K-12 (Ages 5-18).
Then, you go to a College/University for 4 years to get a degree (making you 22 when you get your degree).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmmm, so am I right in thinking the youngest age you can leave the educational system is 18? Are the majority of college courses 4 years rather than 3 (mine was 4, but included a year in industry)?
<strong>
As for the comment about linking my system to networks, I take your point. What I'm talking about however is accessing university essays, assignments, documents and the such from the network and wondering whether my Mac is rendering it in the same way as those with PCs. Similarly, if I need to submit essays to my professor then I just want to do it rather than wondering what format I need to send it. I'll admit, its much more a matter of convenience and laziness than a REAL compatibility issue, but I want my computer to work as a seamless tool rather than one I have to adapt all the time to the environment around me. Up until now that has not been an issue.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I was in business school 5-6 yrs ago. I had a mac centris 650 using whatever OS was out at the time (OS 8, i think). As you may or may not know, in american business schools almost all of the work is done in small groups of 4-6 people. These are group projects where the group gets together and writes one document or report together. I was the only mac user in every group project that I worked on. We would each work on our own part of the project (basically using MSWord, or Excel, ect), then e-mail them all to one person who would put them all together in one document. We would sometimes print out hard copies to turn in, and sometimes simply e-mail them in to the professor.
BOTTOM LINE: NO COMPATIBILITY ISSUES. PERIOD. AND THAT WAS 5 YEARS AGO.
In my experience, (aside, maybe, from real time networked gaming which i know nothing about), compatibility is simply a non-issue.
Before you decide this issue, you should test it out for yourself. Have a friend on a PC e-mail you something and see if you can open it, edit it, send it back to him/her, and have them open it with your changes. I can't imagine this would be a problem.
<strong>I want my computer to work as a seamless tool rather than one I have to adapt all the time to the environment around me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
If you want something that looks great and plays the latest games you should consider building one yourself. There are some very cool cases out there, and you can always mod them to fit your personal style. For under $1200 you can put together a great looking and powerful gaming machine.
There is one thing to conceder: Esthetically flat LCD displays are much better then bulky CRTs. Unfortunately, they don't handle gaming very well (ghosting, lower refresh rate, etc.). So even if you have a great looking computer, if you are really serious about your gaming, you will have a big ugly CRT on your desk.
On more thing. If you want a gaming PC you should avoid the AIO models at all costs.
*cough* Microsoft 802.1x *cough*
If he's on wireless that explains it. See my current raging against M$ thread here..
<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=004084"; target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=004084</a>;
As for games, most are out on Mac they just take longer. If you get a PC you'll eventually lose your entire hard drive and come back to the Mac. We'll all welcome you back.
--Apple, a bit more expesive, but better quality stuff with a longer life span than most PCs. ( Every Mac I have owned I have used for at least FIVE years.)
--Any MS Run Box, less expensive in the beginning. Poised to nickel and dime you to death throughout it's painful life span. Most PC users I know only use thier box for an average of up to TWO years.
----Take what the PC costs now..multiply it times two and a half ( if you don't upgrade the Operating system in that time, if you do..add in whatever ASTRONOMICAL cost MS will bestow on you to the total.)..cause more than likley..if you are getting it just for games..you will need to do a few hardware upgrades before giving up with all of the software and hardware conflicts and problems and buying a few PC box.
Operating Systems, you don't get what you pay for.
--Apple's OSX-- Ease of use, very user friendly, very few problems, and very few viruses compared to thier windows counterparts. Less Expensive than MS Operating systems-- AND you can utilize your DCMA rights. In OSX you can pretty much install what you need..and it does not bog down the system..provided you have enough RAM..and your not taking this to the extreme..and running EVERYTHING at once. Apple ALWAYS ASKS YOUR PERMISSION FIRST. And then it is up to YOU to make the decision to install updates from the company. You are not forced into any hostile upgrade agreements either. I have neen running OSX from the beta stage..and only had the Computer get a kernel panic 3 times. Twice in beta stages, and once in 10.1. Generally, it is simple to install drivers for OSX as well. Most are well written and don't require a second degree in IT speak to do so. If you need to uninstall something (in most cases) you can just drag the application to the trash. If for some reason you will not ever be using that application again, in your library under application support, find the folder (if applicable) and delete. A few more folders down, and you have the prefrences file as well (althogh these are miniscule a few kb each.) And it is ALL GONE. All of your other applications stay functioning..and no OS reinstall needed. If for any reason in the future you ended up really messing up (don't know how really) and HAD to reinstall...you don't need tech support, nor a 65 thousand digit code, or 1-3 hours on the phone to Apple to get your OS activated. If another OS from apple comes out while you own your Mac...and your Hardware meets the requriements..then a full version in the past is anywhere between $99.00-129.00 American. Upgrade prices less.
--MS-- Alot more pricey, and alot less features (unless you pony up the dough to get the "pro version". It aslo gets alot more complicated after the first few days. The more applications, games you decide to put on it, things really slow down, even with more than a GB of RAM and a 2.4GHZ processor. When MS deems it, they can install ANYTHING on your PC- WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT. They want you to trust them, when they are playing a HUGE part in TAKING AWAY YOUR DCMA rights..not to mention privacy on your own comptuer! Uninstalling things (which you may want to do sometime) can be a real pain in the keister! You most times need to use an uninstaller- which sounds good, but so far, it is not smart enought to work even up to 80% of what it promises. It will pretty much only check to see what the application you are wanting to remove uses, and deletes them along with with applcation. The bad part comes in from the program NOT checking to make sure that NO OTHER PROGRAMS use any of those libraries or misc. files either. Sometimes removing applications, can render others useless, meaning a reinstall of the application, and some extreme "something definately gone wrong" scenerios...where the OS needed reinstalled too. You got that 65 THOUSAND alpha-numeric MS Operatiing system code at hand? Oh, and do you have time to sit on the phone with tech support for at least 1-3 hours to reactivate your OS? Sure you could have a buddy at school mess with your system, and unless he is REALLY savvy..and totally understands the OS and the way it works..then he is just toying with it and you could end up with a paperwieght.
I don't know if you have made up your mind..I know alot of people (maybe myself included) have been a bit more than zealous about you not going to PC- these are just a few more reasons not to go.
If you are going to school in anyway-shape-or-form to further your education, and you are only plaing the bigboy games and not all of those $9.99 Wal-Mart Barbie gets a ticket games...then give it a goood bit of thought before you spend your money on ANY system.
Food for thought- thanks for reading my ramblings.
- tommy