No, the iPhone home button is not dead (yet)

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 73
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,920member
    Yeah I find the skepticism of Apple’s ability to implement satisfactory solutions to the skeptics’ use scenarios quite odd considering the track record Apple has of doing just that. Over and over. 
    doozydozenfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 73
    xbitxbit Posts: 391member
    Don't worry, I'm sure there will be an adaptor. :)

    wonkothesanenhughesSoliMetriacanthosaurusdoozydozenavon b7Anilu_777macky the mackyradarthekatmobird
  • Reply 23 of 73
    williamhwilliamh Posts: 1,035member
    Kudos to Apple for pretty good secrecy on this phone.  While there's been conjecture for months about a bunch of features such as wireless charging, bezel-less OLED, and touchid through the display, and now face recognition, and leaked deails through the homepod, etc. clearly nobody has any real knowledge about what this phone will have. A couple weeks ago we were treated to rumors about manufacturing difficulties with the button-less TouchID.  Now there seems to be doubt about whether that will appear at all and even whether it was ever really in the plans.  And we're talking about a phone that is, in all likelihood already in production.  
    macky the mackywatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 73
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    williamh said:
    Kudos to Apple for pretty good secrecy on this phone.  While there's been conjecture for months about a bunch of features such as wireless charging, bezel-less OLED, and touchid through the display, and now face recognition, and leaked deails through the homepod, etc. clearly nobody has any real knowledge about what this phone will have. A couple weeks ago we were treated to rumors about manufacturing difficulties with the button-less TouchID.  Now there seems to be doubt about whether that will appear at all and even whether it was ever really in the plans.  And we're talking about a phone that is, in all likelihood already in production.  
    I have serious doubts about it being bezel-less. Even if 95% of the circumference is literally without a single micron of bezel there will still be top notch for the microphone, speaker, camera, and various sensors that will constitute a bezel—but I think that there likely be a bezel around the device, but likely one that is considerably smaller and, if the rumours are correct, a conisderably reduced chin and forehead. That's a great achievement, but it's not without a bezel, even if Apple markets it as such.
  • Reply 25 of 73
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    world class 3D imaging technology 2 years ahead of the closest runner up
    How do you know this? What if Apple's solution is found to be irreparably flawed, and the hardware is duped by something simple and easy to reproduce? Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.

    To be clear, I don't think that *will* happen. But I do have questions about security when it comes to facial recognition technology that can supposedly identify a user from extreme angles. To me that seems like a potential security exploit, beyond the aforementioned creepiness factor.

    I hope and assume Apple has addressed these issues in new and exciting ways. But until the product is announced, spitballing is the best we can do.
    Do you honestly think Apple would toss such a key feature as TouchID without making sure the replacement is just as good if not better? 
    No. I don't actually think they would do that, which is exactly why I said in the second paragraph of my comment: "To be clear, I don't think that *will* happen." The point of that comment was to call out the blind heaping of praise on an unannounced product/feature (saying it's two years ahead of the competition, sight unseen).
    I am quoting rumors already posted. You seem to be selectively ignoring this kind of positive affirmation to maintain your cautiously pessimistic attitude toward Touch ID's replacement. I think you understand why that is starting to get annoying to me. 
  • Reply 26 of 73
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    world class 3D imaging technology 2 years ahead of the closest runner up
    How do you know this? What if Apple's solution is found to be irreparably flawed, and the hardware is duped by something simple and easy to reproduce? Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.

    To be clear, I don't think that *will* happen. But I do have questions about security when it comes to facial recognition technology that can supposedly identify a user from extreme angles. To me that seems like a potential security exploit, beyond the aforementioned creepiness factor.

    I hope and assume Apple has addressed these issues in new and exciting ways. But until the product is announced, spitballing is the best we can do.
    Do you honestly think Apple would toss such a key feature as TouchID without making sure the replacement is just as good if not better? 
    No. I don't actually think they would do that, which is exactly why I said in the second paragraph of my comment: "To be clear, I don't think that *will* happen." The point of that comment was to call out the blind heaping of praise on an unannounced product/feature (saying it's two years ahead of the competition, sight unseen).
    I am quoting rumors already posted. You seem to be selectively ignoring this kind of positive affirmation to maintain your cautiously pessimistic attitude toward Touch ID's replacement. I think you understand why that is starting to get annoying to me. 
    1) You're quoting rumours.

    2) I think you're taking his comments far out of context.
    nhughesdoozydozengatorguywatto_cobramacgui
  • Reply 27 of 73
    Android has had a virtual home button on some models for years. They leave it up to the app to decide - some apps don't need all of the screen but find having home and back buttons always on more useful. Other ones, like Pocket or Photos, hide the virtual buttons so you can read/scroll through articles, photos, in full screen but have quick access to the buttons when you tap. It's intuitive, not some Pro feature.
    doozydozenavon b7
  • Reply 28 of 73
    I think the term "pro" for a phone is silly. It has a nice ring to it and kind of strokes your ego but pro is short for professional. So this term is very appropriate for computers, most home users no matter how advanced/comfortable with OSX don't need a Mac Pro. But a professional phone user...okay, right, I don't buy it. It is a "deluxe" or "ultra", but "pro" is either just a marketing name or not really the name. Reminds me of the people ten years ago on the forums who wanted to stay with Windows because they were "POWER USERS" what ever the eff that means, lol.
    watto_cobrabb-15
  • Reply 29 of 73
    mubailimubaili Posts: 453member
    when would Apple send out the event invitation? 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 73
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    mubaili said:
    when would Apple send out the event invitation? 
    Historically, this week by Friday. However, nothing is certain.

    Additionally, if they're hosting it at Steve Jobs Theater and the venue only holds 1000(?) attendees they may want to keep it more of a secret longer or feel they need less additional time to let attendees know. I think the counter to that is the the lead time being static regardless of where Apple holds the event, assuming that there are attendees that will need to fly in.

    Another reason for a delay could be Apple is unsure when the theater will be ready or when the iPhone will be ready to go on sale so they have ultimate control of when they wish to populate the theater without having to plan far ahead by renting a venue.
  • Reply 31 of 73
    One interesting thing about the use of a bottom touchbar is what happens when you want to activate the Control Centre? It's also a 'pull up from the bottom' action.
    Also, could the long power bar have a 'push and hold' for one function such as power off and a short press for another function such as home button or Control Centre?
  • Reply 32 of 73
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    robjn said:
    "Gestures are shortcuts for pro users"

    No. They are essential for anyone to navigate iOS.

    The home button is gone! I can't think of a accessibility case but there might be one - in which case a virtual button might stick around as an accessibility option.
    Single finger gestures are essential.  Multi finger gestures requires two handed operation which IMHO is a non-starter for a phone.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 73
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,521member
    eightzero said:
    No mention of the value of TouchID to applePay though.
    Because this isn't a thing. ApplePay has nothing to do with Touch ID. Apple's security mechanisms are why Apple Pay is acceptable to the industry. Touch ID is a convenience feature, that lets you skip entering a password. It has nothing to do with the overall security protocols in place. For this reason, Touch ID is interchangeable with any equally high quality convenience feature that Apple develops.
    And within the last sentence lies the rub.  The system developed needs to be equally convenient when used with ApplePay, and that may not turn out to be the case.

    Do you use ApplePay at retail checkout counters?  When you place the phone near the NFC system, the iPhone switches to ApplePay mode instantly, regardless of what app it was in or even if it was previously asleep.  At that moment, the phone needs to confirm that YOU are the one holding it while it is still very near the NFC system so it can complete the confirmation of payment.  The current mechanism, i.e. relying on TouchID, is perfectly convenient because your thumb is right there to do the trick.

    Contrast that with any other system of ID confirmation, whether it be entering a PIN, scanning your face, or even scanning your retina (not that that is even in the cards right now, but just for the sake of argument).  Given the position and angle that these readers are at relative to your face (often a couple of feet away and at an obtuse angle with respect to your face) I wonder how well the face scanning will work from that position.  How broad of an angle in space will the 3D sensors cover (so your face is even in its view), how near does your face need to be (to give it enough "voxels on target"), and how well will it work if your face is not nearly perpendicular to the beam pattern (how complete is your stored 3-D "face model")?  It's entirely possible that Apple will have to design in a few extra steps, such as either:

    (1) after ApplePay is invoked, requiring you to tilt and/or lift your phone a bit to scan your face (or type in a PIN) and then place it back down again, which NFC systems may not even support, or...

    (2) scan your face (or enter PIN) first mere seconds before placing the phone down on the NFC system.  (Of course, this would require the iPhone to be awake and make you launch ApplePay prior to placing the phone.) 

    Note: a third option is that the user has to bend over to get his/her face near and directly over the phone while it is still near the reader.  I think this will cause some consternation for many users.  Maybe not for geeks such as me and many AI readers here, but I can imagine that a non-trivial fraction of users won't want to contort like this in public.

    Just two seconds of thought on this and you realize that from a user experience perspective, the current TouchID implementation holds a lot of value for ApplePay.  Any other "high quality convenience feature that Apple develops" to support this ID verification is going to have to be designed with these things in mind, and I (for one) am somewhat concerned that it won't be as good for this use case as TouchID is.  Maybe this is a first-world problem, and maybe you will scoff at me for my concern over a few extra steps, but my observation is that Apple commonly designs for solving first-world problems.  The original implementation of ApplePay with TouchID clearly indicates they worked hard to do just that.  Here's hoping whatever they come up with regarding ApplePay and ID verification (non TouchID) is just as slick.

    P.S. I have similar concerns with unlocking the phone any time it is laying on a level surface and my face is not directly above the phone.  Yes, I sometimes do that to see what is onscreen (such as a score, stock price, or whatever page/app I left it on) without having to pick the device up.
    edited August 2017 nhughesradarthekatwatto_cobramobird
  • Reply 34 of 73
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member

    This article is correct. From here out this is a "Pro" model for advanced users. I'll enjoy it, but many types of users are not ready / not capable of handling this kind of UI.

    There will be (other) iPhones with Home Buttons for a long, long time.
    What is "pro" or advanced about it?  Do pro users have extra thumbs on each hand or something?

    Multi-finger gestures is a secondary interface method for a device that is often used one handed.  

    When limited to single finger gestures with a desired low error rate for interaction a physical or virtual home button provides a lot of functionality.

    A physical home button provides tactile feedback on target area at the expense of screen real estate.  A notch/nub on the bezel could provide the tactile feedback required to be able to reliably locate the virtual home button by feel...especially if the button appears and disappears depending on context.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 73
    thomprthompr Posts: 1,521member
    Soli said:
    mubaili said:
    when would Apple send out the event invitation? 
    Historically, this week by Friday. However, nothing is certain.

    Additionally, if they're hosting it at Steve Jobs Theater and the venue only holds 1000(?) attendees they may want to keep it more of a secret longer or feel they need less additional time to let attendees know. I think the counter to that is the the lead time being static regardless of where Apple holds the event, assuming that there are attendees that will need to fly in.

    Another reason for a delay could be Apple is unsure when the theater will be ready or when the iPhone will be ready to go on sale so they have ultimate control of when they wish to populate the theater without having to plan far ahead by renting a venue.

    Oh, I would think that the date and venue have been settled for quite some time now, even if - and it's a big if - the Steve Jobs theater is ready to go.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 73
    nhughes said:
    jwdawso said:
    Any thoughts on the alleged longer power button? Wouldn't surprise me if it doubled as a home button. 
    There was some speculation that perhaps Apple would embed Touch ID into the power/lock button, but no rumors or leaks have suggested that will be the case. Doubling as a home button would be problematic — how would you lock the device, or differentiate between locking and returning to the home screen?
    A single side button can be designed to perform many different tasks, including equally important tasks like a home and lock/sleep. Think of a camera’s shutter button. 2 levels of pressure. Press to focus, press all the way to shoot. Translated to an iPhone: press to go Home (click!), press further in to sleep/awake (deeper click). 

    The fact that the side button has been consistently rumoured to be more prominent, reflects the new importance of this button. This larger side button could also include Touch ID if Apple decides that its removal impacts too many people i.e. those who wear masks/helmets/face protection for work or leisure and can’t use Face ID. My bet is on Touch ID being gone entirely and replaced by Face ID despite the limitations I mentioned. Touch ID doesn’t work with gloves and people have lived with that limitation just fine. 

    On a side note, it always strikes me how some people here can’t think outside of the box. I don’t mean this as an insult. It’s just mind blowing to me. Just because something can’t be done with today’s paradigm, doesn’t mean that that paradigm can’t be changed to solve a new problem. Just because a button is known to have 2 states — pressed or not pressed — it doesn’t mean that a different type of button with multiple states can’t be designed. 
    edited August 2017 radarthekat
  • Reply 37 of 73
    dsddsd Posts: 186member
    My unimpeachable sources at Apple tell me the iPhone home button is not dead, it's just resting.
    macky the mackywatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 73
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    world class 3D imaging technology 2 years ahead of the closest runner up
    How do you know this? 
    Just stop. 

    If this is the best you can do, you shouldn't be writing about Apple.
    We can disagree, but if you want to insult me, you won't last much longer here on the forums.
    No one is insulting you. But you are annoying me. By maintaining the idea that Face ID somehow has to be inferior to Touch ID, despite never seeing the product, because of (rather unimaginative) reservations of your part. You can be indifferent until you’ve seen the product, or you can give Apple the benefit of the doubt they’ve earned. 

    I dont think it’s appropriate to take the angle you’ve maintained, especially with a wide audience. That is all.
    ipedroStrangeDays
  • Reply 39 of 73
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    ipedro said:
    nhughes said:
    jwdawso said:
    Any thoughts on the alleged longer power button? Wouldn't surprise me if it doubled as a home button. 
    There was some speculation that perhaps Apple would embed Touch ID into the power/lock button, but no rumors or leaks have suggested that will be the case. Doubling as a home button would be problematic — how would you lock the device, or differentiate between locking and returning to the home screen?
    A single side button can be designed to perform many different tasks, including equally important tasks like a home and lock/sleep. Think of a camera’s shutter button. 2 levels of pressure. Press to focus, press all the way to shoot. Translated to an iPhone: press to go Home (click!), press further in to sleep/awake (deeper click). 

    The fact that the side button has been consistently rumoured to be more prominent, reflects the new importance of this button. This larger side button could also include Touch ID if Apple decides that its removal impacts too many people i.e. those who wear masks/helmets/face protection for work or leisure and can’t use Face ID. My bet is on Touch ID being gone entirely and replaced by Face ID despite the limitations I mentioned. Touch ID doesn’t work with gloves and people have lived with that limitation just fine. 

    On a side note, it always strikes me how some people here can’t think outside of the box. I don’t mean this as an insult. It’s just mind blowing to me. Just because something can’t be done with today’s paradigm, doesn’t mean that that paradigm can’t be changed to solve a new problem. Just because a button is known to have 2 states — pressed or not pressed — it doesn’t mean that a different type of button with multiple states can’t be designed. 
    Hold your phone while using the thumb for swiping.  Can you reach the power button (even if longer) where it is currently positioned?  No.

    Put the single side button lower where a finger can comfortably use it as home...great right?  

    Now switch hands.

    Thinking outside the box is great but human hands behave a certain way which is why some things end up the way they are.

    The current home button has multi-states.  Do a light double tap and you end up lowering the screen with Reachabiity.  Double click the home button and you get the app selector.  Do a long press and get Siri.  Do a short press and you go home. Single light tap is unused because of too many false positives.

    The current power button also has multiple states.  Short press = screen off.  Long press = shutdown screen.

    I dunno...all the so-called "pro" users in this thread seems unaware that all the single gesture options are already being used by the iOS UI as are most of the home button interactions.

    In the home screen  UI: 

    Down swipe gets you search.
    Up swipe gets you the control buttons
    Left swipe is navigation or the notification screen
    Right swipe is navigation

    Plus apps will have their own swipe behaviors...so you can't just say "Oh, we'll just use double up swipe to go home" because any game that uses swipe for game play control will constantly have that swipe behavior.

    Oh, I use face ID to unlock my Surface Book.  I MUCH prefer the Touch ID on my MBP.
    edited August 2017 nhugheswatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 73
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 770editor
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    world class 3D imaging technology 2 years ahead of the closest runner up
    How do you know this? 
    Just stop. 

    If this is the best you can do, you shouldn't be writing about Apple.
    We can disagree, but if you want to insult me, you won't last much longer here on the forums.
    No one is insulting you. But you are annoying me. By maintaining the idea that Face ID somehow has to be inferior to Touch ID, despite never seeing the product, because of (rather unimaginative) reservations of your part. You can be indifferent until you’ve seen the product, or you can give Apple the benefit of the doubt they’ve earned. 

    I dont think it’s appropriate to take the angle you’ve maintained, especially with a wide audience. That is all.
    Saying I "shouldn't be writing about Apple" is an insult, no matter how you try to spin it. Our house, our rules. You've been warned: Keep it civil and polite.
    watto_cobraavon b7bb-15doozydozen
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