Apple's eGPU work in High Sierra is impressive, but six more months will make it better
Looking at late betas of Apple's eGPU support in High Sierra, Apple has come a long way, and has made some of the technology changes and fixes that it needs for widest possible adoption -- but it's not quite there yet for the entirety of the Mac user base.
Connecting through Apple's $59 bi-directional Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, Thunderbolt 2 will chop off about 20 percent more, and Thunderbolt 1 will kill nearly 50 percent.
Before High Sierra, using an eGPU took a series of relatively simple hacks to enable the technology. It also needed the user to make some concessions about limitations.
That changed when Apple announced High Sierra, and made some changes to how macOS deals with it.
Worse yet, if you yanked the Thunderbolt 3 cable with early versions, the system would immediately kernel panic and crash hard. That's better now, with it forcing an instant logout. Unsaved data still gets lost, but it beats the alternative.
In a piece about the developer's kit, we noted that Apple needed to implement "clamshell mode" -- and we can report that it has returned, to some extent. If the user selects to "mirror" displays, and shuts the lid on the host computer, the MacBook Pro's display now does turn off.
But, it doesn't automatically shift over to one display. If you haven't selected mirrored displays, macOS still considers the shut MacBook Pro to have it as a functional display -- and you can lose windows or your cursor over there if the lid is shut.
Thunderbolt 3's 40 gigabits per second is amazingly fast, but still not fast enough for a full-speed loopback without serious compromise. Maybe a future incarnation of the technology will be fast enough.
We've examined many, many Thunderbolt 3 docks at this point. Pricing varies between $189 and well over $300, just for "legacy" ports.
The Sonnet enclosure used in Apple's Developer kit isn't available at retail. However, one that only supplies 15W to host machines intended for lower-powered cards is $299, with the meatier one with 87W and enough power for the vast majority of cards will ship for $399.
The Sonnet enclosure isn't our favorite, though. The Mantiz MZ-02 sells for $389, provides full charging power to the 15-inch Thunderbolt 3 MacBook Pro, has five USB ports, and a High Sierra-compatible Gigabit Ethernet port.
So, for about $150 on the average, an eGPU enclosure gets you ports you may want back on the MacBook Pro -- plus the ability to plug in a PCI-e card to dramatically boost graphical acceleration.
The whole eGPU concept does work on an iMac. But, it's a harder sell. For the price of the enclosure plus the graphics card, just look at a better iMac instead.
That way, the Final Cut Pro crowd can get the optimized AMD cards, and the Adobe gang can get Nvidia, and everybody can live happily ever after in an environment optimized for what they need. But, regardless of manufacturer, a powerful video card is still faster than the Radeon Pro discrete chipset included in the MacBook Pro, even if not optimized.
And, finally, the technology isn't a kludge hacked together by the Mac faithful with too much time and money on their hands.
The entire computer industry has shifted to a less tinker-y mentality, though. Computing devices for the vast majority of users are now appliances like your toaster, or your refrigerator, and plunked down without thought of maintenance or tinkering.
For "us," eGPU support is ready now. But, because of the not-fully-implemented clamshell mode alone, it's not ready for the "computer as an appliance crowd" just yet.
It's still a long time until the spring of 2018. Let's wait and see what Apple has in mind.
Previously, on AppleInsider
We're not going to go deep into what we've discovered about eGPUs and Thunderbolt 3 over the last few years here. As a general rule, putting a PCI-E graphics card into a Thunderbolt 3 enclosure and connecting it to a Thunderbolt 3 host system will hit you for about 10 percent of any given card's maximum potential performance-wise except for the newest, highest-end cards under massive load, where the losses jump to about 30 percent.Connecting through Apple's $59 bi-directional Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, Thunderbolt 2 will chop off about 20 percent more, and Thunderbolt 1 will kill nearly 50 percent.
Before High Sierra, using an eGPU took a series of relatively simple hacks to enable the technology. It also needed the user to make some concessions about limitations.
That changed when Apple announced High Sierra, and made some changes to how macOS deals with it.
What Apple's fixed and changed along the way
In early implementations, you'd better have the eGPU hooked up before you boot. That's been changed -- if you "hot plug" an eGPU now, macOS will ask you to log out, then back in again. A restart is fine too.For "us," eGPU support is ready now. But, it's not ready for the "computer as an appliance crowd" just yet.
Worse yet, if you yanked the Thunderbolt 3 cable with early versions, the system would immediately kernel panic and crash hard. That's better now, with it forcing an instant logout. Unsaved data still gets lost, but it beats the alternative.
In a piece about the developer's kit, we noted that Apple needed to implement "clamshell mode" -- and we can report that it has returned, to some extent. If the user selects to "mirror" displays, and shuts the lid on the host computer, the MacBook Pro's display now does turn off.
But, it doesn't automatically shift over to one display. If you haven't selected mirrored displays, macOS still considers the shut MacBook Pro to have it as a functional display -- and you can lose windows or your cursor over there if the lid is shut.
What's still the same, and probably won't change
There is still a profound performance penalty if you "loop back" the video signal to the internal display on a MacBook Pro. It's possible with some hacks, but an already bandwidth-tight situation is made worse.Thunderbolt 3's 40 gigabits per second is amazingly fast, but still not fast enough for a full-speed loopback without serious compromise. Maybe a future incarnation of the technology will be fast enough.
The financials behind eGPU enclosures
When AppleInsider first started in-depth examination of eGPU enclosures, cost was a major barrier to entry -- and the entry fee still isn't that small. But, it's gotten far better.We've examined many, many Thunderbolt 3 docks at this point. Pricing varies between $189 and well over $300, just for "legacy" ports.
The Sonnet enclosure used in Apple's Developer kit isn't available at retail. However, one that only supplies 15W to host machines intended for lower-powered cards is $299, with the meatier one with 87W and enough power for the vast majority of cards will ship for $399.
The Sonnet enclosure isn't our favorite, though. The Mantiz MZ-02 sells for $389, provides full charging power to the 15-inch Thunderbolt 3 MacBook Pro, has five USB ports, and a High Sierra-compatible Gigabit Ethernet port.
So, for about $150 on the average, an eGPU enclosure gets you ports you may want back on the MacBook Pro -- plus the ability to plug in a PCI-e card to dramatically boost graphical acceleration.
The whole eGPU concept does work on an iMac. But, it's a harder sell. For the price of the enclosure plus the graphics card, just look at a better iMac instead.
In the spring...
What we don't want to see is anointed case and card combinations. An open case that adheres to the Thunderbolt 3 protocol, and a wide selection of compatible video cards to choose from will help the daring users who want to give it a shot.That way, the Final Cut Pro crowd can get the optimized AMD cards, and the Adobe gang can get Nvidia, and everybody can live happily ever after in an environment optimized for what they need. But, regardless of manufacturer, a powerful video card is still faster than the Radeon Pro discrete chipset included in the MacBook Pro, even if not optimized.
And, finally, the technology isn't a kludge hacked together by the Mac faithful with too much time and money on their hands.
So, why not ship now?
AppleInsider readers are the tech savvy. Many of us have gone elbow-deep into an old aluminum slab-side Mac Pro, or crammed too many PATA drives in a G4 tower than the laws of thermodynamics should reasonably accommodate.The entire computer industry has shifted to a less tinker-y mentality, though. Computing devices for the vast majority of users are now appliances like your toaster, or your refrigerator, and plunked down without thought of maintenance or tinkering.
For "us," eGPU support is ready now. But, because of the not-fully-implemented clamshell mode alone, it's not ready for the "computer as an appliance crowd" just yet.
It's still a long time until the spring of 2018. Let's wait and see what Apple has in mind.
Comments
nice summary.
But I have a question regarding the Thunderbolt GPU. I want to use a Nvidia-card for rendering complex computer generated scenes. As this is not a real-time rendering do I have to plug a monitor into the GPU to have the most power if it is just for crunching numbers? Does it even work with Cinema 4D and Vray?
My ideal setup would be just a MBP and use the external GPU as a sort local renderfarm.
thx
I am an Apple user for close to thirty years.
Through all those chBges. Remember Radius and Rasterops? Plugging in the cards on the Mac "slots?" Hard to imagine now, even when more recently, we could open a MacBook Pro and change out a a 2.5 " hard drive abs out in a newer, faster one, or expand ram.
I am one of those radicals who love Apple but think their decisions will change the vonpsny slowly over the next ten years. True stock price roll drop. Crazy, I know.
But they admit to dropping cate for the professional base, but they did blt solve the Nac Pro issue by creating a modular. Computer, but by making an iMac supercharged and still "THIN" chique.
But this is the culture in the Mac woltd, and and a part of the new iPad/iPhone/appliance culture where Apple is actually moving to create consumer behavior instead of satisfy them as in the lack of the headphone jack.
if you go to the PC works, building your own and "tinkering" is still very much the main pulse of the industry with magazine and a culture that understands onputetscatt modular, that you upgrade things as they improve, and not buy 3000 machines with no ports every three years.
Apple has made ports obscplete fast. I think USN had to upgrade, but not providing ports to the most used peripheral port on a flagship machine? Or Thinderbolt, upon introduction, never took off among peripherals because a) the simple price, where getting a USB 3.0 was just far cheaper, and
Well, you can pay a lot more for a few drives with Thunderbokt, RAID, abs 7200, day, but wait, it's now Thunderbolt 2, and it starts over, but wait! Here comes Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C! What about HDMI 2.0, DisplayPort 1.4... etc.
In old computer works these would be exciting developments, but after one pit hard one's little dream toy/tool, it's like finding out your obselete. Add this yo baby ituer actions, and people get angry. Entire industries are checking out Windows, not bevaysecits better, but because enough of enough. I like to joke I wish there was another Apple, branded to be the creative, innovating, and "always functional creative tool." Steve Jobs said he thought the Apple ethos was about liberal arts meeting technology. Now, it's about profit margins and consumers are not being listened to, but told what to like, how things will be because Apple has the marketing and cash to try to create the trend. Wireless headphones will be the new thing, despite headphones being on Sansumg's new devices and on the new iPads and all Macs, so what gives with the iPhone 7. Is the water/dust protection that big a deal?
Tgis has gone on for years. I've written to well known pundits on the Apple world but I'm sure they are on a payroll to not Rick the boat. Daring Fireball is not daring. So much I predicted has already come true.
I think your institution should write a serious gesture on this issue, despite its controversy. Apple will only improve abs get better when it has real competition and market forces and consumers it listens to, as well as professional users and experts informing them what is the real word on the street.
Think I am being hyperbolic? Try losing all of Hollywood (editing and music production) because they meee a red rocket card, or real workstations. Consumers who now know 15 MacBook Oroscate not the hippest laptops to own, but closer to upgraded Mac Airs. Even their desktop machines have anorexia issues. Cutting function fir aesthetics when possible.
Could Apple make just one little tower, modular computer, with affordability on cheap end to workstation power on expensive end, but can they return power of upgrade and expansion to users and consumers?
Or will all Macs go the way of the iPhone 7 and MacBook (with one port).
could iPad Oros use mouse/trackpad functionality in iOS Or can they upgrade iOS to give more than two window multi-tasking? If they are going to create appliances, see how it is happening, and how it's not a function of our times, but a strategy of Apple and others to profit off certain business practices, and which have cultural effects.
Thank you
J
The same companies are perfectly fine with buying 3000 machines, and plunking them down on desks with identical specs. It saves money on IT costs, and cuts down on offline time. It's not labor-effective to upgrade processors, or PCI-E cards over time.
I confess my love of tinkering going back to Apple ][s has been somewhat sated by the connectivity of the nMac Pro, I depend on my large desk/table for all the peripherals I plug in and out, if it had USB-C and TB 3 I'd be all set for many years.
My eyes lit up at eGPU until I read the 20% hit on TB2-TB3 also they all seem to be single slots, I'd want dual GPUs for Windows use hence like the reader above I wonder if these external cards will work on a Mac running Windows 10? I guess I should be looking at eGPU boxes for Windows except they don't ned them lol. BTW,are there any semi-credible rumors I've missed about the next Mac Pro yet?
Here's the thing though... I don't think there really is a reason it shouldn't get near plug-and-play level, at least for a reasonable range of cards. Anything short of that and Apple has failed, IMO (or is purposely keeping it rough).
re: "But, regardless of manufacturer, a powerful video card is still faster than the Radeon Pro discrete chipset included in the MacBook Pro, even if not optimized."
Exactly. While a high end user might try to squeeze as much performance out as possible, or as you noted, Adobe people can choose nVidia, etc, the big deal is that even a Mac mini owner (assuming they go TB3, but I guess even currently) can move their machine from GPU-sub-par, to quite adequate for a reasonable cost - AND keep it GPU-current - once the price of the enclosure is covered.
Hmm, I wonder though if it's ever really been that different, considering consumer vs pro market segments. People rendering the next CGI film aren't really the corporation plunking down 3000 identical systems. And, while IT departments of the past used to build machines... that was a LONG time ago, well before Apple's recent trend.
I think for a lot of modern machines and demands, making them mostly non-upgradable makes perfect sense, even though I love to tinker. What's really to tinker with anymore, especially for portable machines. There's hardly any moving parts... maybe the SSD or RAM. And, same with iMacs. However, I don't think it applies so well when we get to Mac Pro type machines, unless lego-like system building via a port like TB makes sense.
Otherwise, I don't think the pro market is much different now than it was when the cheese-grater was first introduced. Now, Apple's target market... it just might be a changing. But, as I've stated many times here, I think that would be a long-term mistake. I'm *hoping* Apple has realized this and course-corrected a bit.