Apparently Apple has put a lot of tech into that Face ID thing.
It won't matter one bit. There will be thousands of posts complaining about the camera bump, the notch, slow charging and a million other minor things. To them all this great new stuff is irrelevant as some people just like to complain. Critics love to Criticise. Life will go on and Apple share will get shorted on Tuesday.
Another iPhone release and nothing changes with regards to the complainers
"will feature a black coating on their front cover glass to conceal the VCSEL array, proximity sensor and ambient light sensor from view."
Clean AF
But the notch is still going to show. How is an always visible notch “Clean AF”?
Considering current state of technology and the consequences as a result, I consider hiding the clump of sensors as a successfully advancement of Apple's pursuit to minimize visual clutter in their industrial design. Clean AF, indeed.
"will feature a black coating on their front cover glass to conceal the VCSEL array, proximity sensor and ambient light sensor from view."
Clean AF
But the notch is still going to show. How is an always visible notch “Clean AF”?
I'm sure it Apple could place the array of sensors behind the display and still turn a profit w/in their target margins—they would. Face it, in 2017, notch is state-of-the-art
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
I’m fairly certain you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t expect any of that to come to pass.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
Interesting point. In addition to being 99% reliable as Touch ID is, and just as convenient by not having to hold the phone up to the face, and of course being foolproof, there will need to be some kind of confirmation of intent to purchase, among other things, to prevent accidental acknowledgements.
I'll also be curious to see how it works in situations where it's not practical to position my face near the camera, regardless of the angle, and how it works with and without eyeglasses, and sunglasses, and with and without a beard as well, since I tend to change my facial hair from time to time.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
Not quite sure what you think is going to change here. They will still have to ask you to authorise, so a simple dialog asking if you would like to be IDed with a button for yes and another button for cancel. You hit yes and you're good to go.
Whether that YES consent needs to be authenticated or not may still be disputed, because there is already established TouchID/password examples in which authentication and consent happen at the same time. But being rather a legal issue, no point to discuss it further here. Let's just hope that Apple doesn't ask for password in such instances.
I read something (and I've lost the URL for it), which may explain why they're abandoning TouchID. They may have realised that a separate keyboard with TouchID would be too expensive to sell. But what they can do is build FaceID into an iPhone, an iPad, a MacBook, an iMac … and maybe a high-end standalone monitor.
The abandoning of TouchID is as unlikely as FaceID will happen in all products is likely. If the keyboard cost were a source of concern Apple wouldn't launch it at first place. There is a reason the FaceTime camera is driven by the same T1 chip driving also the TouchID in the new MBPs. When launching the new MBPs with TouchID they knew in advance that they'd implement also the FaceID in the future. I believe multi biometrics is the goal, and all products will include both TouchID and FaceID sooner or later. And despite the evil hopes of all those naysayers, the Touch Bar hopefully is not going anywhere
Still not seeing how this would work any differently to the current setup. You need to press a button to activate TouchID; you need to press a button to activate FaceID.
And both FaceID and TouchID on the same device? Mmmm.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
. How will the phone know? Orientation, possibly? No idea.
Apple Watch turns its display only on certain wrist angle from wearer perspective so Apple already nailed that part of your question with their tech.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
I’m fairly certain you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t expect any of that to come to pass.
Yes, I couldn't follow it either. I think he is assuming that the phone will be scanning for your face all the time. It won't. You will need to trigger authentication, just as you do now.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
I’m fairly certain you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t expect any of that to come to pass.
Yes, I couldn't follow it either. I think he is assuming that the phone will be scanning for your face all the time. It won't. You will need to trigger authentication, just as you do now.
That won't prevent you from that awkward position near the NFC terminal as you mentioned in another thread, does it? Trigger authentication or just re-enter password? I just mentioned a possibility for the password, that's all. Of course giving consent by tapping the YES button is always plausible but how will you handle this along with FaceID authentication? Tap YES, then hold the phone to your face for authentication, then back to NFC terminal? Or just enter password while still at NFC terminal? People file class actions for a lot of stupid reasons. With fragments of information at hand that's all I can speculate about.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
I’m fairly certain you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t expect any of that to come to pass.
Yes, I couldn't follow it either. I think he is assuming that the phone will be scanning for your face all the time. It won't. You will need to trigger authentication, just as you do now.
That won't prevent you from that awkward position near the NFC terminal as you mentioned in another thread, does it? Trigger authentication or just re-enter password? I just mentioned a possibility for the password, that's all. Of course giving consent by tapping the YES button is always plausible but how will you handle this along with FaceID authentication? Tap YES, then hold the phone to your face for authentication, then back to NFC terminal? Or just enter password while still at NFC terminal? People file class actions for a lot of stupid reasons. With fragments of information at hand that's all I can speculate about.
However it works, it's hard to imagine it will be as seem less and convenient an operation as TouchID is now, if I have to extend my phone away from my body to a POST, I simply place my thumb on the Home Button, extend the phone to the POST, wait for the vibration to confirm the transaction is complete, especially in a loud environment, and then done. As you speculate, it seems like there will be a step between first activating ApplePay, getting facial recognition, then extending the phone to the POST. That wouldn't be a huge deal, but at a minimum it adds two new steps to the transaction which I have to go through now.
That said, this kind of technology incorporated into the Apple Watch would make it a much more secure transaction, at the risk of making it slightly more complicated.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
I’m fairly certain you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t expect any of that to come to pass.
Yes, I couldn't follow it either. I think he is assuming that the phone will be scanning for your face all the time. It won't. You will need to trigger authentication, just as you do now.
That won't prevent you from that awkward position near the NFC terminal as you mentioned in another thread, does it? Trigger authentication or just re-enter password? I just mentioned a possibility for the password, that's all. Of course giving consent by tapping the YES button is always plausible but how will you handle this along with FaceID authentication? Tap YES, then hold the phone to your face for authentication, then back to NFC terminal? Or just enter password while still at NFC terminal? People file class actions for a lot of stupid reasons. With fragments of information at hand that's all I can speculate about.
Here's how I use TouchID near an NFC terminal: Approach terminal. Hold phone near terminal. Phone goes into NFC mode. From here I can change to a different card if I want to. Touch home button. Fingerprint is scanned. Items are paid for.
Here's how I think it will work with FaceID Approach terminal. Hold phone near terminal. Phone goes into NFC mode. From here I can change to a different card if I want to. Touch power button. Face is scanned. (I'm also going to guess that the power button will vibrate to indicate a successful scan.) Items are paid for.
If the rumours are to believed then FaceID can scan you from a metre away and doesn't have to be directly in front of you to work. If it does need to be in front of you, then Apple has failed somewhat spectacularly.
Where are you seeing a password in either scenario? I have never been asked for a password while using NFC.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
I’m fairly certain you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t expect any of that to come to pass.
Yes, I couldn't follow it either. I think he is assuming that the phone will be scanning for your face all the time. It won't. You will need to trigger authentication, just as you do now.
That won't prevent you from that awkward position near the NFC terminal as you mentioned in another thread, does it? Trigger authentication or just re-enter password? I just mentioned a possibility for the password, that's all. Of course giving consent by tapping the YES button is always plausible but how will you handle this along with FaceID authentication? Tap YES, then hold the phone to your face for authentication, then back to NFC terminal? Or just enter password while still at NFC terminal? People file class actions for a lot of stupid reasons. With fragments of information at hand that's all I can speculate about.
As you speculate, it seems like there will be a step between first activating ApplePay, getting facial recognition, then extending the phone to the POST. That wouldn't be a huge deal, but at a minimum it adds two new steps to the transaction which I have to go through now.
Mmmm. That would be a problem.
With NFC, you're supposed to establish a connection and authenticate in one hit. What you're talking about here is authenticating, then establishing a connection, then sending the previous authentication details over the connection. So how long would these authentication details remain valid? Five seconds? Ten seconds?
Under this scenario, you would also need three actions: Activate ApplePay Get facial recognition Extend phone towards NFC Press button to transmit.
Why the 'transmit button'? Because without an established connection the phone could transmit to another reader by mistake, especially if the user has already done the recognition bit before he/she reaches the terminal (which is what I would do with such an awkward system to save time).
It'll be interesting to see a demo. For me, this will only work well if they can read your face WHILE the phone is next to the terminal. Having to read your face, then move to the terminal to establish a connection … that sounds like a security risk to me.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
I’m fairly certain you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t expect any of that to come to pass.
Yes, I couldn't follow it either. I think he is assuming that the phone will be scanning for your face all the time. It won't. You will need to trigger authentication, just as you do now.
That won't prevent you from that awkward position near the NFC terminal as you mentioned in another thread, does it? Trigger authentication or just re-enter password? I just mentioned a possibility for the password, that's all. Of course giving consent by tapping the YES button is always plausible but how will you handle this along with FaceID authentication? Tap YES, then hold the phone to your face for authentication, then back to NFC terminal? Or just enter password while still at NFC terminal? People file class actions for a lot of stupid reasons. With fragments of information at hand that's all I can speculate about.
Here's how I use TouchID near an NFC terminal: Approach terminal. Hold phone near terminal. Phone goes into NFC mode. From here I can change to a different card if I want to. Touch home button. Fingerprint is scanned. Items are paid for.
Here's how I think it will work with FaceID Approach terminal. Hold phone near terminal. Phone goes into NFC mode. From here I can change to a different card if I want to. Touch power button. Face is scanned. (I'm also going to guess that the power button will vibrate to indicate a successful scan.) Items are paid for.
If the rumours are to believed then FaceID can scan you from a metre away and doesn't have to be directly in front of you to work. If it does need to be in front of you, then Apple has failed somewhat spectacularly.
According to the patent, one must bring the device to a "use position" to activate Face ID and unlock the phone.
I'm just wondering how this will work with Apple Pay. Are you going to have to angle the phone so your face it directly in front of it while holding it near an NFC terminal?
It's been a published rumor for months that no, you would not have to hold it in front of your face, akin to the ARKit document scanning in iOS 11.
There are instances where an authorization is required explicitly from the user, payment is such an instance, buying in the AppStore either. In such instances the user is told to do TouchID or enter password. Now how will that work with Face ID? An alert saying "Hold the iPhone to your face"?. That is what people is asking when questioning that. Or, will the authorization be automatically given on behalf of the user thanks to FaceID?
Such an automatic authorization won't take long to be disputed in courts. Just remember how the software license agreements are accepted. One must explicitly click on "I agree". There are legal reasons for that, its history is going back to the '90s.
Because of that implicit authorization issue, I think Apple won't take such a legal risk with Face ID and I'm afraid it will ask for password in those explicit authorization instances.
Any hint about that in iOS 11 Golden Master?
I’m fairly certain you have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t expect any of that to come to pass.
Yes, I couldn't follow it either. I think he is assuming that the phone will be scanning for your face all the time. It won't. You will need to trigger authentication, just as you do now.
That won't prevent you from that awkward position near the NFC terminal as you mentioned in another thread, does it? Trigger authentication or just re-enter password? I just mentioned a possibility for the password, that's all. Of course giving consent by tapping the YES button is always plausible but how will you handle this along with FaceID authentication? Tap YES, then hold the phone to your face for authentication, then back to NFC terminal? Or just enter password while still at NFC terminal? People file class actions for a lot of stupid reasons. With fragments of information at hand that's all I can speculate about.
As you speculate, it seems like there will be a step between first activating ApplePay, getting facial recognition, then extending the phone to the POST. That wouldn't be a huge deal, but at a minimum it adds two new steps to the transaction which I have to go through now.
Mmmm. That would be a problem.
With NFC, you're supposed to establish a connection and authenticate in one hit. What you're talking about here is authenticating, then establishing a connection, then sending the previous authentication details over the connection. So how long would these authentication details remain valid? Five seconds? Ten seconds?
Under this scenario, you would also need three actions: Activate ApplePay Get facial recognition Extend phone towards NFC Press button to transmit.
Why the 'transmit button'? Because without an established connection the phone could transmit to another reader by mistake, especially if the user has already done the recognition bit before he/she reaches the terminal (which is what I would do with such an awkward system to save time).
It'll be interesting to see a demo. For me, this will only work well if they can read your face WHILE the phone is next to the terminal. Having to read your face, then move to the terminal to establish a connection … that sounds like a security risk to me.
Well there is one way to short the steps, and that is, the phone automatically detects your face and is ready to assume authentication within a short time span leading up to pressing the button to transmit. Such that Apple Pay is activated as it is now, by bringing it contact with NFC reader. Pressing the button confirms it like on the Watch, rather than placing the finger on the TouchID. The only downside to this is if for some reason the phone has been handed to someone else, or otherwise out of face detection site of the owner, longer than the time-out window for re-authenticiation.
Comments
To them all this great new stuff is irrelevant as some people just like to complain.
Critics love to Criticise. Life will go on and Apple share will get shorted on Tuesday.
Another iPhone release and nothing changes with regards to the complainers
I think the other sensors are to both improve the UX and support additional use cases such as scanning and AR/Selfies.
I'll also be curious to see how it works in situations where it's not practical to position my face near the camera, regardless of the angle, and how it works with and without eyeglasses, and sunglasses, and with and without a beard as well, since I tend to change my facial hair from time to time.
Still not seeing how this would work any differently to the current setup. You need to press a button to activate TouchID; you need to press a button to activate FaceID.
And both FaceID and TouchID on the same device? Mmmm.
That said, this kind of technology incorporated into the Apple Watch would make it a much more secure transaction, at the risk of making it slightly more complicated.
Approach terminal.
Hold phone near terminal. Phone goes into NFC mode. From here I can change to a different card if I want to.
Touch home button. Fingerprint is scanned.
Items are paid for.
Here's how I think it will work with FaceID
Approach terminal.
Hold phone near terminal. Phone goes into NFC mode. From here I can change to a different card if I want to.
Touch power button. Face is scanned. (I'm also going to guess that the power button will vibrate to indicate a successful scan.)
Items are paid for.
If the rumours are to believed then FaceID can scan you from a metre away and doesn't have to be directly in front of you to work. If it does need to be in front of you, then Apple has failed somewhat spectacularly.
Where are you seeing a password in either scenario? I have never been asked for a password while using NFC.
Mmmm. That would be a problem.
With NFC, you're supposed to establish a connection and authenticate in one hit. What you're talking about here is authenticating, then establishing a connection, then sending the previous authentication details over the connection. So how long would these authentication details remain valid? Five seconds? Ten seconds?
Under this scenario, you would also need three actions:
Activate ApplePay
Get facial recognition
Extend phone towards NFC
Press button to transmit.
Why the 'transmit button'? Because without an established connection the phone could transmit to another reader by mistake, especially if the user has already done the recognition bit before he/she reaches the terminal (which is what I would do with such an awkward system to save time).
It'll be interesting to see a demo. For me, this will only work well if they can read your face WHILE the phone is next to the terminal. Having to read your face, then move to the terminal to establish a connection … that sounds like a security risk to me.
Edit:
But see my second post here:
https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/201681