Wow, thats brutal. Looks like the Note 8 is set at a lower resolution? If not, thats embarrassing.
And whats all this FUD about Android cameras "surpassing" the iPhone in the last couple years, and that Apple is now "behind"? All bullshit, as usual.
Wow the 8+ image stabilization appears to be far superior to the Galaxy.
Indeed. Galaxy Note 8 looks like a in-progress earthquake in comparison.
My friend sent me a Galaxy Note 8 for free (she works at Samsung). I decided to play around with it in Wrangell-St Elias National Park yesterday. The OIS on the Galaxy Note 8 is terrible. I was actually quite shocked when I recorded videos. Even the slightest movement makes it look like an earthquake and that's no exaggeration. I recorded the same scene with my iPhone 7 Plus and it's very smooth. Apple in my eyes will always be way ahead of everyone when it comes to the quality of the camera.
Most cars can reach speeds twice as fast as road speed limits. Only nerds are impressed or care about this.
WTF are you even talking about, smartphones are not DSLR, they're not fracking Ferraris, there is a lot of headway to improvement before going twice the speed limit.
They're barely reaching cruise speed and nowhere close to speed limit.
Dxomark is likely much better today since they updated the test procedures and metrics.
The previous test pretty much ignored computational imaging with multiple image sensors. They are in the process of retesting many devices, and finally got around to testing the iPhone 7 Plus.
They days of large aperture, single sensor smartphones topping dxomark is pretty much over.
If you understood how DxO makes it's living you might better appreciate why they don't test every camera, and why some seem to get more attention than others.
HINT: DxO sells "consulting services" and related camera optimization software called DxO Analyzer. If a camera manufacturer follows their advice, tweaking their camera software here and there it follows that it should do very well on the DxOMark score since it's based on what is suggested in DxOAnalyzer.
I brought that up when the Pixel topped last year's ratings so I'm not suddenly turning on them or changing any opinion I previously offered when Apple was NOT on the top of their rankings.
What exactly does this have to do with my comments?
Apple, nor any other manufacturer for that matter, would have known of the new test procedures, since they didn't exist prior to a few days before the new iPhone announcements. Manufacturers would have been building their imaging systems based on their own internal development and testing.
It has everything to do with your comments. DxOAnalyzer is meant to maximize the DxOMark test scores and utilizing whatever test equipment/procedures DxO deems important. That's why they are paid by camera/smartphone companies for their consulting services, making recommendations on how to best optimize results matched to their test equipment.
By the way if they did not test the iPhone7 Plus last year it was most likely because Apple made the choice of not submitting it for testing rather than they "didn't get around to it". If Apple felt published results for the 7Plus were important they would have paid DxO to test and Dxo would have done so.
Did you miss that fact that there is a new procedure?
The new testing procedures using new test equipment would have been available to Apple or any other company paying for DxO services since at least August when the latest version of Analyzer was publically made available, so no it's not so new that Apple would have been blind-sided. What's the likelihood that Apple is a customer of DxO's? According to the company "all top smartphone and camera module makers are DxO Analyzer customers", so unless Apple isn't a top smartphone maker....
I never said Apple was blindsided. I stated that the Apple iPhone 7 Plus could not be tested by dxomark because there was no procedure. You just confirmed that didn't exist until August, i.e. a short time ago. You basically back up what I stated earlier. Now, you might be implying that Apple tilted the procedure in their favor with a payment of a stack of cash, but the reality is, that procedure was driven by Apple's technology in the iPhone 7 Plus, the first of its class of smartphone to use dual, differing focal length sensors, to simulate depth in images. Again, this is stated explicitly by dxo.
Whether Apple uses dxo Analyzer (along with a hell of a lot of other available testing technology on the market) is really not relevant. Apple, nor anyone else for that matter, is paying for results, nor designing to an external test, which you certainly implied earlier. I also stated that Apple and all of the other companies are in a "arms" race to develop computational imaging, which is why I would expect the next Pixel to deliver the same dual, different focal length sensor system, as other Android OS OEM's have already.
Edit: There was a post just a bit ago on AI about Apple studying paintings;
You really think that dxo would have considered that in their Analyzer? I'm thinking, no. Apple did it for the customer, to give them the best experience and the best image.
The truth is the only competition the iPhone 8 has is the iPhone X.
If the iPhone 6 series was fastest and the iPhone 7 series was fastest and the iPhone 8 series is fastest but Android phones - including some very expensive ones - still shift in enough numbers to leave Apple's numbers in the dust, why is it goodbye Android?
Something seems to be off in your reasoning or are saying this year will be the year to buck that trend?
What will you say if this time next year if Android is still leaving Apple in the dust?
With a million knockoff brands cranking out crappy knockoffs, it doesnt matter if their combined shipped units is higher. No single device is selling more than the iphone nor do they make as much profit combined.
The truth is the only competition the iPhone 8 has is the iPhone X.
If the iPhone 6 series was fastest and the iPhone 7 series was fastest and the iPhone 8 series is fastest but Android phones - including some very expensive ones - still shift in enough numbers to leave Apple's numbers in the dust, why is it goodbye Android?
Something seems to be off in your reasoning or are saying this year will be the year to buck that trend?
What will you say if this time next year if Android is still leaving Apple in the dust?
There is no 'still' leaving Apple in any dust. You'd have to be deliberately obtuse to not realize that the bottom line in business is not about who ships the most commodity-priced units. Otherwise KMart would have been seen as king of women's handbags over the likes of, say, Coach. But you already know all this, don't you?
An androiders last bastion is within the Church of Market Share
At least AAPL stock is manipulated to a much lesser degree from the past. Would be cool if someone showed share price fluctuation graph...I'd bet that recent fluctuations are nowhere near the craziness of 2001 - 2011.
Their "methods" are opaque to the max and their weighting is arbitrary.
Their DXO ratings of DSLR is sure to inflame in any discussion on a camera.
They also don't seem to actually care for actual usage constraints, time to setup shots, time between shots, type of shot you get if camera is moving (like your taking out of your pocket and using it quick), etc.
Maybe there is just no easy way to test these things. But, many seem to think that "tripod rating" as I call it. Means the moon.
In fact, I'd argue that Apple's Iphone ALWAYS has shot better than the other cameras in normal everyday circumstances even when its DXO was lower than the Samsung cameras.
Their "methods" are opaque to the max and their weighting is arbitrary.
Their DXO ratings of DSLR is sure to inflame in any discussion on a camera.
They also don't seem to actually care for actual usage constraints, time to setup shots, time between shots, type of shot you get if camera is moving (like your taking out of your pocket and using it quick), etc.
Maybe there is just no easy way to test these things. But, many seem to think that "tripod rating" as I call it. Means the moon.
In fact, I'd argue that Apple's Iphone ALWAYS has shot better than the other cameras in normal everyday circumstances even when its DXO was lower than the Samsung cameras.
Don't care for Consumer Reports, DisplayMate or DxO tests, regardless of whether an Apple device gets good or bad reviews.
But knowing how many Android fanboys/Apple haters are going to be livid over this kinda makes me smile. Combine this with the benchmark tests of the A11 and the nerds be ragin' hard tonight.
I think hardly anyone even cares to be honest and most definitely no one will be livid.
Ever since phones became not just good enough, but far more than good enough, people simply made purchasing decisions on other factors like price, bang for buck, design etc.
Think about how most people use their phones. Do you think that WhatsApp is going to open that much faster on an iPhone X than my Android? Will web pages load that much faster?
My phone hasn't slowed down and is still faster than what I use it for and has a boatload of features that aren't even available on a iPhone.
Don't care for Consumer Reports, DisplayMate or DxO tests, regardless of whether an Apple device gets good or bad reviews.
But knowing how many Android fanboys/Apple haters are going to be livid over this kinda makes me smile. Combine this with the benchmark tests of the A11 and the nerds be ragin' hard tonight.
I think hardly anyone even cares to be honest and most definitely no one will be livid.
Ever since phones became not just good enough, but far more than good enough, people simply made purchasing decisions on other factors like price, bang for buck, design etc.
Think about how most people use their phones. Do you think that WhatsApp is going to open that much faster on an iPhone X than my Android? Will web pages load that much faster?
My phone hasn't slowed down and is still faster than what I use it for and has a boatload of features that aren't even available on a iPhone.
Go the hell away, you lie like wind and don't give a damn about it.
The truth is the only competition the iPhone 8 has is the iPhone X.
If the iPhone 6 series was fastest and the iPhone 7 series was fastest and the iPhone 8 series is fastest but Android phones - including some very expensive ones - still shift in enough numbers to leave Apple's numbers in the dust, why is it goodbye Android?
Something seems to be off in your reasoning or are saying this year will be the year to buck that trend?
What will you say if this time next year if Android is still leaving Apple in the dust?
With a million knockoff brands cranking out crappy knockoffs, it doesnt matter if their combined shipped units is higher. No single device is selling more than the iphone nor do they make as much profit combined.
Who even mentioned a single device? My whole was that the 'Goodbye Android' claim was levelled at the entire Android platform.
The truth is the only competition the iPhone 8 has is the iPhone X.
If the iPhone 6 series was fastest and the iPhone 7 series was fastest and the iPhone 8 series is fastest but Android phones - including some very expensive ones - still shift in enough numbers to leave Apple's numbers in the dust, why is it goodbye Android?
Something seems to be off in your reasoning or are saying this year will be the year to buck that trend?
What will you say if this time next year if Android is still leaving Apple in the dust?
With a million knockoff brands cranking out crappy knockoffs, it doesnt matter if their combined shipped units is higher. No single device is selling more than the iphone nor do they make as much profit combined.
Who even mentioned a single device? My whole was that the 'Goodbye Android' claim was levelled at the entire Android platform.
WTF is it to you!!
it's a joke posted on an Apple forum (do you really think the person saying that really believe that),
, just like your posts about "teaching us and setting us straight" (yeah I remember that post) and your whole shtick are a joke. Not a very good one but still.
The truth is the only competition the iPhone 8 has is the iPhone X.
If the iPhone 6 series was fastest and the iPhone 7 series was fastest and the iPhone 8 series is fastest but Android phones - including some very expensive ones - still shift in enough numbers to leave Apple's numbers in the dust, why is it goodbye Android?
Something seems to be off in your reasoning or are saying this year will be the year to buck that trend?
What will you say if this time next year if Android is still leaving Apple in the dust?
There is no 'still' leaving Apple in any dust. You'd have to be deliberately obtuse to not realize that the bottom line in business is not about who ships the most commodity-priced units. Otherwise KMart would have been seen as king of women's handbags over the likes of, say, Coach. But you already know all this, don't you?
Oh, yes I know it but that isn't the question.
'Goodbye Android' means Android. All Android.
My point was that if nothing has changed over the last few years - in spite of the differences - why should it suddenly change now?
The people in the low end market will continue in the low end market. The people in the mid ground will probably stay there too. If little to nothing is likely to change, why 'goodbye Android'?
And Apple is effectively frozen for the next 12 months now. Android hasn't even finished rolling out its flagship camera phones this year, let alone next year when there will be another wave for MWC Barcelona 2018.
It's very unlikely that the Pixel 2 and Mate 10 are going to take anything less than amazing photos because their other lines are already taking great photos.
You are wrong.
Alot has changed in the last 4 years.
Apple has continued to state the last 8 quarters that Android switchers keeping increasing every quarter. More and more Android users are moving to the iPhone platform.
I'm sorry but Android is so far behind, its not even funny at this point.
The A10 is still faster than top end Android phones in real world tests. That is absolutely embarrasing that a chip over a year old is destroying the current year Android phones.
And the gap is getting wider. The A11 will crush Android phones for the next 18 months.
Pixel2 and Mate10 will be insignificant footnotes in a couple years. Just like the last Apple killer Xiaomi was a couple years ago.
Cheap China brands just can't compete with Apple's $1000 flagships. The only way they can match specs is if the phone costs $600. And at that price the customer will choose a mid-tier iPhone instead.
GOOD BYE ANDROID.
At least Android will continue to feast on the low end and make zero profits.
Android is basically 2nd class citizens of the smartphone world.
And the GAP will get even wider the next 3 years. Why? Because Apple makes $50 billion in profits a year and has $200 billion in cash. They will leverage that massive cash pile to invest in technologies that Android just can't compete with. Apple makes 90% of the profits. Android does not have enough cash to compete, but simply needs to wait till Apple releases the technology and then copy it. Thus Android will always be a couple years behind Apple. LOL.
Second class citizens?
So far behind?
You must be joking.
Android competes so well that Apple now had the biggest price spread across its biggest live product line EVER. Do you know why?
Fandroids are a bit sour these says. Their phones run a crappy os powered by a crappy processor with a mediocre camera and on top of this they recieve no updates. Yeah Android rules. LOL.
Don't care for Consumer Reports, DisplayMate or DxO tests, regardless of whether an Apple device gets good or bad reviews.
But knowing how many Android fanboys/Apple haters are going to be livid over this kinda makes me smile. Combine this with the benchmark tests of the A11 and the nerds be ragin' hard tonight.
This.
And some Apple fans were livid last year when according to DxO their smartphone camera's were rated at the top of the heap. All because of some data-point published by a for profit consulting company. Who really cares unless you're sitting around argung with someone for brownie points. In actual use it really matters little.
Personally I like to look at the ratings as a general guide, and when looking at DSLR's I'm generally interested more in certain specific measurements, but a DxO score has never made me choose one camera over another. IMHO it's simply a bragging point for fans of those on top of the heap and a DxO marketing tool to shame camera manufacturers into paying for Analyzer software so they don't show up on the bottom of that same heap.
You again imply that companies use Analyzer to design their imaging systems. They only use it to verify their designs, software and firmware. Analyzer and dxomark are not the same, yet you seem to use them interchangeably.
Anybody that is designing their system around dxomark would be killed in the market. The leaders are designing their systems to simulate dslr's in the hands of professionals. Any high dxomark, as in the case of the Apple iPhone 8 Plus result, would be from the attempt to create the most dslr experience, not attempting to optimize to the dxomark test suite.
The truth is the only competition the iPhone 8 has is the iPhone X.
If the iPhone 6 series was fastest and the iPhone 7 series was fastest and the iPhone 8 series is fastest but Android phones - including some very expensive ones - still shift in enough numbers to leave Apple's numbers in the dust, why is it goodbye Android?
Something seems to be off in your reasoning or are saying this year will be the year to buck that trend?
What will you say if this time next year if Android is still leaving Apple in the dust?
There are only 10 reasons to be in business: the first is to make a profit the other 9 don't count.
I will say market share is unimportant if that marketshare doesn't generate profits. Android (dozens of manufacturers) makes very little profit, while iPhone (a single manufacturer) generates ~90% of industry profits.
The dust you see is Apple positioning a dozen or so Android manufacturers for bankruptcy. HTC just negotiated a Billion $$ bail out from Google and passed it off as a joint partnership. Others to follow, but there are no more white knights.
The truth is the only competition the iPhone 8 has is the iPhone X.
If the iPhone 6 series was fastest and the iPhone 7 series was fastest and the iPhone 8 series is fastest but Android phones - including some very expensive ones - still shift in enough numbers to leave Apple's numbers in the dust, why is it goodbye Android?
Something seems to be off in your reasoning or are saying this year will be the year to buck that trend?
What will you say if this time next year if Android is still leaving Apple in the dust?
There are only 10 reasons to be in business: the first is to make a profit the other 9 don't count.
I will say market share is unimportant if that marketshare doesn't generate profits. Android (dozens of manufacturers) makes very little profit, while iPhone (a single manufacturer) generates ~90% of industry profits.
The dust you see is Apple positioning a dozen or so Android manufacturers for bankruptcy. HTC just negotiated a Billion $$ bail out from Google and passed it off as a joint partnership. Others to follow, but there are no more white knights.
This is actually incorrect. Lower tier Android manufacturers simply do not compete with Apple because Apple hasn't been on their turf.
The competition comes from other Android manufacturers and yes, many will possibly go out of business (but not due to Apple) or be absorbed as the market converges.
In the case of higher tier manufacturers, there is competition from and to Apple and latest figures show decline in the amount of industry profits going Apple's way. So who is pulling profits away from who?
All you need to do for a viable business is make money. Many Android manufacturers actually do make money. This is just like any other business in any other sector.
Market share is important if you plan to draw revenues from services.
Comments
What are the scores for the S8/Note 8 , just out of interest ?
Will be interesting to see if the Pixel 2 can hold a candle to this year's iPhones
Whether Apple uses dxo Analyzer (along with a hell of a lot of other available testing technology on the market) is really not relevant. Apple, nor anyone else for that matter, is paying for results, nor designing to an external test, which you certainly implied earlier. I also stated that Apple and all of the other companies are in a "arms" race to develop computational imaging, which is why I would expect the next Pixel to deliver the same dual, different focal length sensor system, as other Android OS OEM's have already.
Edit: There was a post just a bit ago on AI about Apple studying paintings;
https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/201949/
You really think that dxo would have considered that in their Analyzer? I'm thinking, no. Apple did it for the customer, to give them the best experience and the best image.
An androiders last bastion is within the Church of Market Share
Yes, definitely unfath --- unfatham --- unfa ---- without fathom. (couldn't resist)
At least AAPL stock is manipulated to a much lesser degree from the past. Would be cool if someone showed share price fluctuation graph...I'd bet that recent fluctuations are nowhere near the craziness of 2001 - 2011.
I 100% agree with you.
Ever since phones became not just good enough, but far more than good enough, people simply made purchasing decisions on other factors like price, bang for buck, design etc.
Think about how most people use their phones. Do you think that WhatsApp is going to open that much faster on an iPhone X than my Android? Will web pages load that much faster?
My phone hasn't slowed down and is still faster than what I use it for and has a boatload of features that aren't even available on a iPhone.
So far behind?
You must be joking.
Android competes so well that Apple now had the biggest price spread across its biggest live product line EVER. Do you know why?
Besides the tech press who gives a fuck about Pixel?
Anybody that is designing their system around dxomark would be killed in the market. The leaders are designing their systems to simulate dslr's in the hands of professionals. Any high dxomark, as in the case of the Apple iPhone 8 Plus result, would be from the attempt to create the most dslr experience, not attempting to optimize to the dxomark test suite.
The competition comes from other Android manufacturers and yes, many will possibly go out of business (but not due to Apple) or be absorbed as the market converges.
In the case of higher tier manufacturers, there is competition from and to Apple and latest figures show decline in the amount of industry profits going Apple's way. So who is pulling profits away from who?
All you need to do for a viable business is make money. Many Android manufacturers actually do make money. This is just like any other business in any other sector.
Market share is important if you plan to draw revenues from services.